Erasmus Darwin: Rocket Scientist?

Piscivore · 30th January 2009, 02:33 PM

From Wiki: (yeah, I know)

Quote:

Rocket engine
In notes dating to 1779, Darwin made a sketch of a simple liquid-fuel rocket engine, with hydrogen and oxygen tanks connected by plumbing and pumps to an elongated combustion chamber and expansion nozzle, a concept not to be seen again until one century later.

So, okay, that's a couple of years after oxygen was discovered, sure- but Wiki also tells me:

Quote:

By the late 19th century scientists realized that air could be liquefied, and its components isolated, by compressing and cooling it. Using a cascade method, Swiss chemist and physicist Raoul Pierre Pictet evaporated liquid sulfur dioxide in order to liquefy carbon dioxide, which in turn was evaporated to cool oxygen gas enough to liquefy it. He sent a telegram on December 22, 1877 to the French Academy of Sciences in Paris announcing his discovery of liquid oxygen.[59] Just two days later, French physicist Louis Paul Cailletet announced his own method of liquefying molecular oxygen.[59] Only a few drops of the liquid were produced in either case so no meaningful analysis could be conducted. Oxygen was liquified in stable state for the first time on March 29, 1877 by Polish scientists from Jagiellonian University, Zygmunt Wróblewski and Karol Olszewski.[60]

In 1891 Scottish chemist James Dewar was able to produce enough liquid oxygen to study.[10]

and...

Quote:

Hydrogen was liquefied for the first time by James Dewar in 1898 by using regenerative cooling and his invention, the vacuum flask.[62]

What are the facts, here?

geni · 30th January 2009, 02:39 PM

The drawing is online.

http://www.search.revolutionaryplaye...=1113&offset=4

It has been described as a rocket motor yes. Pretty basic sketch. You would have needed a lot more work to turn it into something workable.

RecoveringYuppy · 30th January 2009, 02:46 PM

Most sources say compressed hydrogen/oxygen, not liquified.

ETA: and that would include geni's link which posted while I was typing.

Piscivore · 30th January 2009, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by geni

The drawing is online.

http://www.search.revolutionaryplaye...=1113&offset=4

It has been described as a rocket motor yes. Pretty basic sketch. You would have needed a lot more work to turn it into something workable.

Cool, thanks. I'll have to wait to get home before I can look at it.

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Most sources say compressed hydrogen/oxygen, not liquified.

I was suspecting something like that.

BenBurch · 30th January 2009, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Most sources say compressed hydrogen/oxygen, not liquified.

ETA: and that would include geni's link which posted while I was typing.

The Wiki needs fixing then.

RecoveringYuppy · 30th January 2009, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

The Wiki needs fixing then.

Yeah, I think so. I had to question myself when I said "most sources" as to whether I should count each repetition of the wikipedia entry or just the ones that differed. Wikipedia is great when it's right, but when it's wrong it's errors are repeated a lot.

30th January 2009, 02:33 PM	#1
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home is wherever I'm with you Posts: 26,478	Erasmus Darwin: Rocket Scientist? From Wiki: (yeah, I know) Quote: Rocket engine In notes dating to 1779, Darwin made a sketch of a simple liquid-fuel rocket engine, with hydrogen and oxygen tanks connected by plumbing and pumps to an elongated combustion chamber and expansion nozzle, a concept not to be seen again until one century later. So, okay, that's a couple of years after oxygen was discovered, sure- but Wiki also tells me: Quote: By the late 19th century scientists realized that air could be liquefied, and its components isolated, by compressing and cooling it. Using a cascade method, Swiss chemist and physicist Raoul Pierre Pictet evaporated liquid sulfur dioxide in order to liquefy carbon dioxide, which in turn was evaporated to cool oxygen gas enough to liquefy it. He sent a telegram on December 22, 1877 to the French Academy of Sciences in Paris announcing his discovery of liquid oxygen.[59] Just two days later, French physicist Louis Paul Cailletet announced his own method of liquefying molecular oxygen.[59] Only a few drops of the liquid were produced in either case so no meaningful analysis could be conducted. Oxygen was liquified in stable state for the first time on March 29, 1877 by Polish scientists from Jagiellonian University, Zygmunt Wróblewski and Karol Olszewski.[60] In 1891 Scottish chemist James Dewar was able to produce enough liquid oxygen to study.[10] and... Quote: Hydrogen was liquefied for the first time by James Dewar in 1898 by using regenerative cooling and his invention, the vacuum flask.[62] What are the facts, here?
	__________________ Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Take his fish away and tell him he's lucky just to be alive, and he'll figure out how to catch another one for you to take tomorrow. "...untrustworthy obnoxious twerp." - CFLarsen

30th January 2009, 02:39 PM	#2
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,577	The drawing is online. http://www.search.revolutionaryplaye...=1113&offset=4 It has been described as a rocket motor yes. Pretty basic sketch. You would have needed a lot more work to turn it into something workable.
	Last edited by geni; 30th January 2009 at 02:46 PM. Reason: sp

30th January 2009, 02:46 PM	#3
RecoveringYuppy Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,851	Most sources say compressed hydrogen/oxygen, not liquified. ETA: and that would include geni's link which posted while I was typing.
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. Last edited by RecoveringYuppy; 30th January 2009 at 02:47 PM.

30th January 2009, 02:52 PM	#4
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home is wherever I'm with you Posts: 26,478	Originally Posted by geni The drawing is online. http://www.search.revolutionaryplaye...=1113&offset=4 It has been described as a rocket motor yes. Pretty basic sketch. You would have needed a lot more work to turn it into something workable. Cool, thanks. I'll have to wait to get home before I can look at it. Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Most sources say compressed hydrogen/oxygen, not liquified. I was suspecting something like that.
	__________________ Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Take his fish away and tell him he's lucky just to be alive, and he'll figure out how to catch another one for you to take tomorrow. "...untrustworthy obnoxious twerp." - CFLarsen

30th January 2009, 10:00 PM	#5
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,211	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Most sources say compressed hydrogen/oxygen, not liquified. ETA: and that would include geni's link which posted while I was typing. The Wiki needs fixing then.
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30th January 2009, 10:14 PM	#6
RecoveringYuppy Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,851	Originally Posted by BenBurch The Wiki needs fixing then. Yeah, I think so. I had to question myself when I said "most sources" as to whether I should count each repetition of the wikipedia entry or just the ones that differed. Wikipedia is great when it's right, but when it's wrong it's errors are repeated a lot.
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.