Dover School Board on NOVA

hgc · 10th February 2009, 05:39 PM

There's a great NOVA on Tammy Kitzmiller, et al v. Dover Area School District, et al. on right now (WNET/New York) on PBS. If you're home and can turn it on, do so. It's only a quarter of the way through its 2 hours. If it's coming on later in your area, you can watch or Tivo it.

I'll report back later.

ponderingturtle · 10th February 2009, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by hgc

There's a great NOVA on Tammy Kitzmiller, et al v. Dover Area School District, et al. on right now (WNET/New York) on PBS. If you're home and can turn it on, do so. It's only a quarter of the way through its 2 hours. If it's coming on later in your area, you can watch or Tivo it.

I'll report back later.

I think it premiered two years ago. It is a good program though.

Bob Klase · 10th February 2009, 06:48 PM

My channel guide shows that it's on again from 1 to 3 am tomorrow/this (Wednesday) morning.

macdoc · 10th February 2009, 06:49 PM

Brilliant - enjoyed it the first time around and learned much.
Too bad it's on the funding drive - a bit long tho in a good cause

hgc · 10th February 2009, 07:00 PM

That was enjoyable.

I didn't know much about Barbara Forrest before. She's the Philosophy professor who did the research on the history of ID and Pandas, uncovering the famous "cdesign proponentsists," the transitional form between "creationists" and "design proponents" in one of the early drafts which had been subpoenaed from the publisher.

I'm inspired to read Judge Jones' opinion again. It's one of my favorite official documents ever.

Delvo · 10th February 2009, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by hgc

"cdesign proponentsists," the transitional form between "creationists" and "design proponents"

No, no, no... all that that discovery did was create two more gaps, so now we have to look for two more missing links. You can't get from there to either "creationists" or "design proponents" in just one step, but the intermediate steps were never observed!

Questioninggeller · 10th February 2009, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by hgc

There's a great NOVA on Tammy Kitzmiller, et al v. Dover Area School District, et al. on right now (WNET/New York) on PBS. If you're home and can turn it on, do so. It's only a quarter of the way through its 2 hours. If it's coming on later in your area, you can watch or Tivo it.

I'll report back later.

You can watch it online (though broken in segments) at NOVA's webpage:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html

PBS' trailer on youtube:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Dunstan · 10th February 2009, 09:52 PM

Yeah, I'm enjoying it for the second time. I only wish that Buckingham and Bonsall had been prosecuted for perjury. Testifying that you have no idea where the money for the books came from when you wrote the damn check yourself is not an innocent mistake.

JoeTheJuggler · 10th February 2009, 09:58 PM

Dern--I was all set to watch this, but instead we got a NOVA program about biblical archaeology. (It was a good program, though.)

Hokulele · 10th February 2009, 11:57 PM

Just finished in my time zone.

I forgot just how much of a prat Pat Robertson can be.

CriticalThanking · 11th February 2009, 07:55 AM

I loved the program when I first saw it. The entire thing is available online for free in segments on the pbs.org website.

I ordered the DVD and offer to host viewings in the DFW area to support TFN's effort to stop the Texas State Board of Education from watering down the biology standards. I will likely be in Austin to either testify or lobby in March when the final vote is taken.

CT

ferd burfle · 11th February 2009, 07:57 AM

I just love a story with a happy ending!

And yeah, I know it was just one battle in the war, but ya gotta take your pleasures when you can.

Ferd

fuelair · 11th February 2009, 08:28 AM

Tivoed it and DVD later. Thanks for the heads up!!

shadron · 12th February 2009, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by hgc

I'm inspired to read Judge Jones' opinion again. It's one of my favorite official documents ever.

The trial transcript is available on he JREF site at http://forums.randi.org/cmps_index.php?pageid=dover . There is a permanent link to it on this page in the upper left corner in the "Site Navigation" box named "Dover Court Trial".

shadron · 12th February 2009, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Dern--I was all set to watch this, but instead we got a NOVA program about biblical archaeology. (It was a good program, though.)

They are apparently using it as a come-on for the local PBS fund drive, and your local station hasn't yet had the pleasure; I'm sure you'll see it soon, though!. As stated elsewhere in this thread you can go see it anytime on the NOVA website at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html .

Psi Baba · 12th February 2009, 01:53 PM

I missed this when it premiered, and had only so far seen the streaming edition on the pbs website, so it was nice to sit in front of the TV and watch it again. Excellent program of a great trial. Definitely worth ordering the DVD. You gotta love the irony of Judge John E Jones III being a conservative Republican, nominated by Rick Santorum and appointed by GWB. Thus, any time some IDiot mutters something about the "activist judge" who rendered the verdict, you can slam them like a torpedo with that little tidbit.

bickerer · 12th February 2009, 04:19 PM

May Darwin himself look down and smile upon you Shadron. My cheeks ached after watching it and smiling the whole way through and my first thought when it ended was "Wow, I wish I could get a transcript of this......"

shadron · 18th February 2009, 02:02 AM

I particularly enjoyed watching that outstandingly upright Christian, Buckingham, vitriolize the judge at the end, showing the true meaning of evangelistic zeal, laboring for Christ in the fields. Not to speak of true charity-of-spirit. Bonsall was a wimp by comparison.

UnrepentantSinner · 18th February 2009, 03:14 AM

If any of you missed it and have Netflix, it's availible. I currently have it in my queue.

SusanConstant · 26th October 2010, 02:53 PM

Before The People:

There’s a HUGE fault line in both arguments:

SCOTUS accepts only the Declaration, Constitution and Federalist Papers as authorities. You can cite anything but it is not then law or an authority so you MAY NOT stand upon Darwin or Einstein; you must stand alone as the constitutionally set authority and then living scientific authorities can enter upon you, as if you are the doorway. You must enter original work we can prove with simple experiments and/or nature – something you can’t fake or forge.

To opine upon evolution a person has to be the constitutional authority thus demonstrating where you find the concept or universal truth within US law.

Like this: You can PROVE that reptiles are related to birds with hardcore science; you can also prove it by showing the Justices where you will find a segmented snake or a snake in the form of a figure eight or a snake rising from The People, growing wings and so taking flight. Unless you can show the Justices where you find the science within US law?

No ruling on evolution is good and no federal court may send it ahead. They can but if they do? I’ll file for third party standing.

The Dover judge was trying to tell you that there are at two burdens of proof, science and US law thus one side came closest to the actual science but missed the legal burden completely as they perjured themselves. The Darwinists met the legal burden but their science was more flawed thus NEITHER side had the “good” science.

You CAN’T prove men were once monkeys as they weren’t; the closest primate relative we have? The lemur but you cannot then claim men were once monkeys as you still have to account for aspiration or will and liberty as only man is this; only we possess emotional reasoning capacity.

I’ve seen monkey love, monkey murder, monkey tools and even a monkey practical joke but never monkey aspiration as the time I saw an animal seemingly “liberate” others? No, all they were after is food thus it was animal instinct NOT actual liberation; it was freedom not liberty.

Animals are free while men are liberated. Thus you have the huge “space” Darwinists have never been able to account for with science such as fossils.

BTW: Are reptiles and dinosaurs related? Take the Justices on a field trip to the National Zoo AFTER you make the case in person inside SCOTUS and have them look at a bald eagle’s talons up close.

Gawdzilla · 26th October 2010, 03:05 PM

Aren't you supposed to resurrect a thread after three days?

Anyway, what's the deal with the talon? You seem to say birds are dinosaurs, then have trouble with dinos being related to lizards? Go back far enough and we're all related.

casebro · 26th October 2010, 03:23 PM

Don't get worked up Gawdzilla. It's only Susan.

Susan, You haven't been a visitor here in quite a while. Were you taking your meds, but let your medication lapse again lately ? You need to keep them up.

Gawdzilla · 26th October 2010, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by casebro

Don't get worked up Gawdzilla. It's only Susan.

Susan, You haven't been a visitor here in quite a while. Were you taking your meds, but let your medication lapse again lately ? You need to keep them up.

?

SusanConstant · 26th October 2010, 04:51 PM

Are they related? Go look at an eagle, in person not a picture in a book and not a 350 million year old fossil.

If you look at the paper Constitution discern where you find or see the check and balance of power resembling a segmented snake as YOU, via your vote, rise or as you recover from your own fall as formerly great government if you draw it out as a diagram. Is it survival of only the physically fittest? Hell no or else we couldn't reason TRENTON, NORMANDY, JOHN ADAMS, MALCOLM X or SUSAN.

You get: A 'double' double helix or the Cadeusus.

Gawdzilla · 26th October 2010, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by SusanConstant

Are they related? Go look at an eagle, in person not a picture in a book and not a 350 million year old fossil.

The World Bird Sanctuary is about ten miles from here. I visit regularly. I have, indeed, seen a bird.

Do we debunk buffalo wings next? (The American Bison is not a buffalo. That would be a great start.)

jaydeehess · 26th October 2010, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by SusanConstant

Are they related? Go look at an eagle, in person not a picture in a book and not a 350 million year old fossil.

.

Did that. There are dozens of Bald Eagles within a few miles of where I am.
Are Eagles related to 350 million year old dinosaurs? Yes through 350 million years of generations.

10th February 2009, 05:39 PM	#1
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,986	Dover School Board on NOVA There's a great NOVA on Tammy Kitzmiller, et al v. Dover Area School District, et al. on right now (WNET/New York) on PBS. If you're home and can turn it on, do so. It's only a quarter of the way through its 2 hours. If it's coming on later in your area, you can watch or Tivo it. I'll report back later.
	__________________ Bowel-shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse assail him and wail him with monster truck force. - Cake, The Distance Was there a second singer on the grassy Knowles? - Stephen Colbert

10th February 2009, 06:30 PM	#2
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,417	Originally Posted by hgc There's a great NOVA on Tammy Kitzmiller, et al v. Dover Area School District, et al. on right now (WNET/New York) on PBS. If you're home and can turn it on, do so. It's only a quarter of the way through its 2 hours. If it's coming on later in your area, you can watch or Tivo it. I'll report back later. I think it premiered two years ago. It is a good program though.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

10th February 2009, 07:00 PM	#5
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,986	That was enjoyable. I didn't know much about Barbara Forrest before. She's the Philosophy professor who did the research on the history of ID and Pandas, uncovering the famous "cdesign proponentsists," the transitional form between "creationists" and "design proponents" in one of the early drafts which had been subpoenaed from the publisher. I'm inspired to read Judge Jones' opinion again. It's one of my favorite official documents ever.
	__________________ Bowel-shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse assail him and wail him with monster truck force. - Cake, The Distance Was there a second singer on the grassy Knowles? - Stephen Colbert

10th February 2009, 09:58 PM	#9
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,667	Dern--I was all set to watch this, but instead we got a NOVA program about biblical archaeology. (It was a good program, though.)
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

10th February 2009, 11:57 PM	#10
Hokulele Official Nemesis Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Trying to decide whether to set defenses against an army, or against mole rats. Posts: 27,265	Just finished in my time zone. I forgot just how much of a prat Pat Robertson can be.
	__________________ Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" Some person: "Why did you shoot that?" Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" - Tragic Monkey

10th February 2009, 06:48 PM	#3
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,833	My channel guide shows that it's on again from 1 to 3 am tomorrow/this (Wednesday) morning.

10th February 2009, 06:49 PM	#4
macdoc Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Planet earth on slow boil Posts: 4,594	Brilliant - enjoyed it the first time around and learned much. Too bad it's on the funding drive - a bit long tho in a good cause

10th February 2009, 07:41 PM	#6
Delvo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Posts: 3,875	Originally Posted by hgc "cdesign proponentsists," the transitional form between "creationists" and "design proponents" No, no, no... all that that discovery did was create two more gaps, so now we have to look for two more missing links. You can't get from there to either "creationists" or "design proponents" in just one step, but the intermediate steps were never observed!

10th February 2009, 09:52 PM	#8
Dunstan Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sunnyvale Trailer Park Posts: 4,292	Yeah, I'm enjoying it for the second time. I only wish that Buckingham and Bonsall had been prosecuted for perjury. Testifying that you have no idea where the money for the books came from when you wrote the damn check yourself is not an innocent mistake.

11th February 2009, 07:55 AM	#11
CriticalThanking Designated Hitter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the queue to Williamsport Posts: 2,159	I loved the program when I first saw it. The entire thing is available online for free in segments on the pbs.org website. I ordered the DVD and offer to host viewings in the DFW area to support TFN's effort to stop the Texas State Board of Education from watering down the biology standards. I will likely be in Austin to either testify or lobby in March when the final vote is taken. CT
	__________________ T-Mobile customer service sucks. Happiness should not be a zero sum game. Did I mention T-Mobile customer service sucks?

11th February 2009, 07:57 AM	#12
ferd burfle Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Just short of Zeta II Reticuli Posts: 346	I just love a story with a happy ending! And yeah, I know it was just one battle in the war, but ya gotta take your pleasures when you can. Ferd
	__________________ Paranoia...(is) fundamentally egocentric, and every conspiracy theory serves in some way to aggrandize the believer---William Gibson, Zero History

11th February 2009, 08:28 AM	#13
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Tivoed it and DVD later. Thanks for the heads up!!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

12th February 2009, 01:51 AM	#14
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,717	Originally Posted by hgc I'm inspired to read Judge Jones' opinion again. It's one of my favorite official documents ever. The trial transcript is available on he JREF site at http://forums.randi.org/cmps_index.php?pageid=dover . There is a permanent link to it on this page in the upper left corner in the "Site Navigation" box named "Dover Court Trial".

12th February 2009, 01:55 AM	#15
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,717	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler Dern--I was all set to watch this, but instead we got a NOVA program about biblical archaeology. (It was a good program, though.) They are apparently using it as a come-on for the local PBS fund drive, and your local station hasn't yet had the pleasure; I'm sure you'll see it soon, though!. As stated elsewhere in this thread you can go see it anytime on the NOVA website at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html .
	Last edited by shadron; 12th February 2009 at 01:57 AM.

12th February 2009, 01:53 PM	#16
Psi Baba Homo Skepticalis Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Occupying my barstool Posts: 3,177	I missed this when it premiered, and had only so far seen the streaming edition on the pbs website, so it was nice to sit in front of the TV and watch it again. Excellent program of a great trial. Definitely worth ordering the DVD. You gotta love the irony of Judge John E Jones III being a conservative Republican, nominated by Rick Santorum and appointed by GWB. Thus, any time some IDiot mutters something about the "activist judge" who rendered the verdict, you can slam them like a torpedo with that little tidbit.
	__________________ Save Caribbean Rum! (seriously)

12th February 2009, 04:19 PM	#17
bickerer Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 318	May Darwin himself look down and smile upon you Shadron. My cheeks ached after watching it and smiling the whole way through and my first thought when it ended was "Wow, I wish I could get a transcript of this......"
bickerer Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 318

18th February 2009, 02:02 AM	#18
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,717	I particularly enjoyed watching that outstandingly upright Christian, Buckingham, vitriolize the judge at the end, showing the true meaning of evangelistic zeal, laboring for Christ in the fields. Not to speak of true charity-of-spirit. Bonsall was a wimp by comparison.

18th February 2009, 03:14 AM	#19
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,351	If any of you missed it and have Netflix, it's availible. I currently have it in my queue.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

26th October 2010, 02:53 PM	#20
SusanConstant Scholar Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 50	Evolution within SCOTUS or Before The People: There’s a HUGE fault line in both arguments: SCOTUS accepts only the Declaration, Constitution and Federalist Papers as authorities. You can cite anything but it is not then law or an authority so you MAY NOT stand upon Darwin or Einstein; you must stand alone as the constitutionally set authority and then living scientific authorities can enter upon you, as if you are the doorway. You must enter original work we can prove with simple experiments and/or nature – something you can’t fake or forge. To opine upon evolution a person has to be the constitutional authority thus demonstrating where you find the concept or universal truth within US law. Like this: You can PROVE that reptiles are related to birds with hardcore science; you can also prove it by showing the Justices where you will find a segmented snake or a snake in the form of a figure eight or a snake rising from The People, growing wings and so taking flight. Unless you can show the Justices where you find the science within US law? No ruling on evolution is good and no federal court may send it ahead. They can but if they do? I’ll file for third party standing. The Dover judge was trying to tell you that there are at two burdens of proof, science and US law thus one side came closest to the actual science but missed the legal burden completely as they perjured themselves. The Darwinists met the legal burden but their science was more flawed thus NEITHER side had the “good” science. You CAN’T prove men were once monkeys as they weren’t; the closest primate relative we have? The lemur but you cannot then claim men were once monkeys as you still have to account for aspiration or will and liberty as only man is this; only we possess emotional reasoning capacity. I’ve seen monkey love, monkey murder, monkey tools and even a monkey practical joke but never monkey aspiration as the time I saw an animal seemingly “liberate” others? No, all they were after is food thus it was animal instinct NOT actual liberation; it was freedom not liberty. Animals are free while men are liberated. Thus you have the huge “space” Darwinists have never been able to account for with science such as fossils. BTW: Are reptiles and dinosaurs related? Take the Justices on a field trip to the National Zoo AFTER you make the case in person inside SCOTUS and have them look at a bald eagle’s talons up close.
SusanConstant Scholar Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 50	Last edited by SusanConstant; 26th October 2010 at 02:54 PM.

26th October 2010, 03:05 PM	#21
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,358	Aren't you supposed to resurrect a thread after three days? Anyway, what's the deal with the talon? You seem to say birds are dinosaurs, then have trouble with dinos being related to lizards? Go back far enough and we're all related.
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

26th October 2010, 03:23 PM	#22
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	Don't get worked up Gawdzilla. It's only Susan. Susan, You haven't been a visitor here in quite a while. Were you taking your meds, but let your medication lapse again lately ? You need to keep them up.
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

26th October 2010, 03:30 PM	#23
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,358	Originally Posted by casebro Don't get worked up Gawdzilla. It's only Susan. Susan, You haven't been a visitor here in quite a while. Were you taking your meds, but let your medication lapse again lately ? You need to keep them up. ?
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

26th October 2010, 04:51 PM	#24
SusanConstant Scholar Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 50	Oops! Reptiles and BIRDS not dinosaurs, lol! Are they related? Go look at an eagle, in person not a picture in a book and not a 350 million year old fossil. If you look at the paper Constitution discern where you find or see the check and balance of power resembling a segmented snake as YOU, via your vote, rise or as you recover from your own fall as formerly great government if you draw it out as a diagram. Is it survival of only the physically fittest? Hell no or else we couldn't reason TRENTON, NORMANDY, JOHN ADAMS, MALCOLM X or SUSAN. You get: A 'double' double helix or the Cadeusus.
SusanConstant Scholar Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 50

26th October 2010, 05:13 PM	#25
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,358	Originally Posted by SusanConstant Are they related? Go look at an eagle, in person not a picture in a book and not a 350 million year old fossil. The World Bird Sanctuary is about ten miles from here. I visit regularly. I have, indeed, seen a bird. Do we debunk buffalo wings next? (The American Bison is not a buffalo. That would be a great start.)
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

26th October 2010, 08:18 PM	#26
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,798	Originally Posted by SusanConstant Are they related? Go look at an eagle, in person not a picture in a book and not a 350 million year old fossil. . Did that. There are dozens of Bald Eagles within a few miles of where I am. Are Eagles related to 350 million year old dinosaurs? Yes through 350 million years of generations.