C-SPAN 2009 Historians Presidents Leadership Survey

aerosolben · 16th February 2009, 11:39 AM

Released for Presidents Day:

http://www.c-span.org/PresidentialSurvey/default.aspx

Summary:

Pulled the link from Digg, which is predictably of angry teenagers wondering why Bush isn't last.

Personal thoughts:
Bush is probably as low as he'll ever fall on the list (and probably in line with where he'd be elsewhere, maybe. I would expect him to probably rise slightly in coming years as history distances us from recent events, though I wouldn't be surprised if he remains at the bottom of modern presidents until someone more recent surpasses him, or there is an unexpected development in the Middle East or similar which vindicates him.

Pretty decent list, all things considered. Polk and Reagan can switch places, though.

gdnp · 16th February 2009, 06:13 PM

I am curious about Kennedy above Jefferson. Jefferson was clearly the more important historical figure, but much of what he did was outside his term as president.

Tsukasa Buddha · 16th February 2009, 06:55 PM

Jefferson was a horrible president, he totally flip flopped on the issues, after he became president.

The Louisiana purchase he sent to Congress was like, "Yeah, I didn't have the power to do this, but this is a really good deal!"

HereticHulk · 16th February 2009, 07:27 PM

W should be dead last IMO.

Not much could possibly vindicate him.

funk de fino · 16th February 2009, 07:28 PM

I wonder where Ron Paul is on the list..........

ARubberChickenWithAPulley · 16th February 2009, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by HereticHulk

W should be dead last IMO.

Not much could possibly vindicate him.

The survey here was specifically rating leadership. But either way, it would be awfully hard to seriously argue that Bush should be dead last.

Buchanan sat around and watched as the entire country literally disintegrated.

Unless the United States happens to cease to exist in the next few years as a direct result of something Bush did, it would be awfully hard to claim he belongs below Buchanan. Pierce and Fillmore are in close to the same boat as Buchanan in that regard.

aerosolben · 16th February 2009, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley

The survey here was specifically rating leadership. But either way, it would be awfully hard to seriously argue that Bush should be dead last.

Buchanan sat around and watched as the entire country literally disintegrated.

Unless the United States happens to cease to exist in the next few years as a direct result of something Bush did, it would be awfully hard to claim he belongs below Buchanan. Pierce and Fillmore are in close to the same boat as Buchanan in that regard.

Not to mention Johnson, who set race relations back about 100 years after the war was over.

And there needs to be a lot of trials before we can fairly judge the Bush administration more corrupt than Harding's.

Travis · 16th February 2009, 09:20 PM

Isn't it kinda mean to have Harrison fourth from last? How much bad could he have done in just one month of office?

Texas · 16th February 2009, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by gdnp

I am curious about Kennedy above Jefferson. Jefferson was clearly the more important historical figure, but much of what he did was outside his term as president.

Never underestimate the power of mythology.

UnrepentantSinner · 18th February 2009, 01:47 AM

They dedicated a part of Washington Journal to this yesterday morning. I watched bits and pieces but wish I'd watched more of it.

Travis · 18th February 2009, 04:27 AM

I always think it's interesting how respected Truman is now, placing fifth on this list and almost always in the top ten of any list of greatest Presidents, considering how unpopular he was when he left office.

gdnp · 18th February 2009, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

I always think it's interesting how respected Truman is now, placing fifth on this list and almost always in the top ten of any list of greatest Presidents, considering how unpopular he was when he left office.

What was the source of his unpopularity? The economy? Korea?

16th February 2009, 11:39 AM	#1
aerosolben Evil Genius Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,270	C-SPAN 2009 Historians Presidents Leadership Survey Released for Presidents Day: http://www.c-span.org/PresidentialSurvey/default.aspx Summary: Pulled the link from Digg, which is predictably of angry teenagers wondering why Bush isn't last. Personal thoughts: Bush is probably as low as he'll ever fall on the list (and probably in line with where he'd be elsewhere, maybe. I would expect him to probably rise slightly in coming years as history distances us from recent events, though I wouldn't be surprised if he remains at the bottom of modern presidents until someone more recent surpasses him, or there is an unexpected development in the Middle East or similar which vindicates him. Pretty decent list, all things considered. Polk and Reagan can switch places, though.
aerosolben Evil Genius Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,270	__________________ You can tell a lot about a fellow's character by his way of eating jellybeans. - Ronald Reagan

16th February 2009, 06:55 PM	#3
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 9,918	Jefferson was a horrible president, he totally flip flopped on the issues, after he became president. The Louisiana purchase he sent to Congress was like, "Yeah, I didn't have the power to do this, but this is a really good deal!"
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

16th February 2009, 07:27 PM	#4
HereticHulk Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 716	W should be dead last IMO. Not much could possibly vindicate him.
HereticHulk Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 716	__________________ "Religion provides the solace for the turmoil that it creates.” ~ Byron Danelius

16th February 2009, 07:28 PM	#5
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 10,795	I wonder where Ron Paul is on the list..........
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

16th February 2009, 08:52 PM	#7
aerosolben Evil Genius Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,270	Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley The survey here was specifically rating leadership. But either way, it would be awfully hard to seriously argue that Bush should be dead last. Buchanan sat around and watched as the entire country literally disintegrated. Unless the United States happens to cease to exist in the next few years as a direct result of something Bush did, it would be awfully hard to claim he belongs below Buchanan. Pierce and Fillmore are in close to the same boat as Buchanan in that regard. Not to mention Johnson, who set race relations back about 100 years after the war was over. And there needs to be a lot of trials before we can fairly judge the Bush administration more corrupt than Harding's.
aerosolben Evil Genius Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,270	__________________ You can tell a lot about a fellow's character by his way of eating jellybeans. - Ronald Reagan

16th February 2009, 06:13 PM	#2
gdnp useless idiot Join Date: May 2008 Location: New Jersey-You gotta problem wit dat? Posts: 4,999	I am curious about Kennedy above Jefferson. Jefferson was clearly the more important historical figure, but much of what he did was outside his term as president.

16th February 2009, 07:42 PM	#6
ARubberChickenWithAPulley Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,152	Originally Posted by HereticHulk W should be dead last IMO. Not much could possibly vindicate him. The survey here was specifically rating leadership. But either way, it would be awfully hard to seriously argue that Bush should be dead last. Buchanan sat around and watched as the entire country literally disintegrated. Unless the United States happens to cease to exist in the next few years as a direct result of something Bush did, it would be awfully hard to claim he belongs below Buchanan. Pierce and Fillmore are in close to the same boat as Buchanan in that regard.

16th February 2009, 09:20 PM	#8
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,946	Isn't it kinda mean to have Harrison fourth from last? How much bad could he have done in just one month of office?
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

16th February 2009, 09:25 PM	#9
Texas Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,847	Originally Posted by gdnp I am curious about Kennedy above Jefferson. Jefferson was clearly the more important historical figure, but much of what he did was outside his term as president. Never underestimate the power of mythology.
Texas Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,847

18th February 2009, 01:47 AM	#10
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,358	They dedicated a part of Washington Journal to this yesterday morning. I watched bits and pieces but wish I'd watched more of it.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

18th February 2009, 04:27 AM	#11
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,946	I always think it's interesting how respected Truman is now, placing fifth on this list and almost always in the top ten of any list of greatest Presidents, considering how unpopular he was when he left office.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

18th February 2009, 05:00 AM	#12
gdnp useless idiot Join Date: May 2008 Location: New Jersey-You gotta problem wit dat? Posts: 4,999	Originally Posted by Travis I always think it's interesting how respected Truman is now, placing fifth on this list and almost always in the top ten of any list of greatest Presidents, considering how unpopular he was when he left office. What was the source of his unpopularity? The economy? Korea?