[Merged] Conviction for death of child to be reversed if he comes back to life.

BPSCG · 31st March 2009, 04:19 AM

Quote:

A 22-year-old woman accused of starving her infant son to death pleaded guilty Monday afternoon to one count of child abuse resulting in death and will be released from jail in exchange for her cooperation against her co-defendants, who prosecutors say are fellow members of a cult called 1 Mind Ministries.

The unusual plea agreement also includes a "process of deprogramming" for Ria Ramkissoon and the promise that charges will be dropped if 2-year-old Javon Thompson is resurrected. Ramkissoon's attorney said his client insisted on the clause, which he believes is a first in American legal history, because she still holds out hope that her son will be brought back to life.

Prosecutors say the five suspects belonged to a small group of adults and children whose leader, Queen Antoinette, is accused of ordering members in January 2007 to withhold food and water from Javon. She believed he was a demon because he did not say "Amen" after he was fed, according to a statement of facts read by prosecutors.

After he died, Antoinette laid Javon's body on a couch, and the others knelt and prayed while Ramkissoon danced around the body, Assistant State's Attorney Julie Drake said. The group carried his remains in a green suitcase when they later moved to Philadelphia.

Link

Quote:

Defense attorney Steven D. Silverman said Ramkissoon is still brainwashed by the cult and will undergo two eight-hour sessions of "deprogramming" with a cult expert after she is released...

"Ria does not to this day believe she was victimized by a cult," Silverman said. "She believes that the child will be resurrected, and that if she gives up hope of that happening, it would call decisions she's made in the past into question."

He said his client is "just as much of a victim as her son."

Uh, no, she isn't, you moron.

lionking · 31st March 2009, 04:23 AM

What? The prosecution agreed to a plea that included a clause that a child may be resurrected? Please tell me that's not true.

politas · 31st March 2009, 04:33 AM

Hey, when you look at it from a rational point of view, the Prosecution gives away absolutely nothing, and gets her to agree.

Puppycow · 31st March 2009, 06:11 AM

Amazing how weak-minded some people are. Cults and religions are fascinating in what they can get such people to believe.

Her belief in the possibility of resurrection is not objectively any more illogical than that of Christians, a majority of the people in the US.

BPSCG · 31st March 2009, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Amazing how weak-minded some people are. Cults and religions are fascinating in what they can get such people to believe.

Her belief in the possibility of resurrection is not objectively any more illogical than that of Christians, a majority of the people in the US.

Let's be fair, now. Christians believe that resurrection only happened once, two millennia ago, and isn't going to happen again, because the one time it did happen was a very special case. This lady and her woo cult seem to think you can resurrect anybody.

Rasmus · 31st March 2009, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Let's be fair, now. Christians believe that resurrection only happened once, two millennia ago, and isn't going to happen again, because the one time it did happen was a very special case. This lady and her woo cult seem to think you can resurrect anybody.

Ever heard of the rapture?

I am fair: Christians tend to believe a great many concepts that are simply insane. They may occasionally be less harmful, but they are certainly not intrinsically less mindbogglingly stupid than other beliefs that are just less mainstream.

Also, what about Lazarus, the widow's son in Lain (spelling?) or the daughter of Jairus?

Never mind that the whole idea of Christianity is that all believers will somehow survive their own death?

ponderingturtle · 31st March 2009, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Let's be fair, now. Christians believe that resurrection only happened once, two millennia ago, and isn't going to happen again, because the one time it did happen was a very special case. This lady and her woo cult seem to think you can resurrect anybody.

Yes and no. There is a lot of belief in resurection as part of the after life or the end of the world. Not so much in random cases. But wasn't one of saint Nicolas's miracles bringing 3 guys back to life?

So not exactly that extreme or out of bounds.

BPSCG · 31st March 2009, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Rasmus

Ever heard of the rapture?

(...snip...)

Also, what about Lazarus, the widow's son in Lain (spelling?) or the daughter of Jairus?

Don't count. All accomplished with divine assistance.

(You might not be able to see it from your side of the screen, but my tongue is planted firmly in my cheek...)

tyr_13 · 31st March 2009, 07:11 AM

They thought the baby was a demon because the infant didn't say amen?

I'm all for this plea deal if it sends the cult leader to jail until she is resurrected.

ponderingturtle · 31st March 2009, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

They thought the baby was a demon because the infant didn't say amen?

It seems the child was 2 not an infant.

see

Quote:

The unusual plea agreement also includes a "process of deprogramming" for Ria Ramkissoon and the promise that charges will be dropped if 2-year-old Javon Thompson is resurrected

BPSCG · 31st March 2009, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

They thought the baby was a demon because the infant didn't say amen?

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

It seems the child was 2 not an infant.

Then the little brat got what he deserved.

headscratcher4 · 31st March 2009, 07:23 AM

I am for any prosecutor striking plea deals with murderers based on the deal being negated by the victim's resurection. BUT, the proscutor should NEVER negotiate away the resurected victim's right to sue in civil court.

shemp · 31st March 2009, 07:47 AM

If A murders B, and A is executed, and B is then resurrected, shouldn't A also be resurrected?

tyr_13 · 31st March 2009, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

If A murders B, and A is executed, and B is then resurrected, shouldn't A also be resurrected?

Only if you have enough gold for the diamond.

Lonewulf · 31st March 2009, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

If A murders B, and A is executed, and B is then resurrected, shouldn't A also be resurrected?

Only if resurrection forgives the murder.

headscratcher4 · 31st March 2009, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

If A murders B, and A is executed, and B is then resurrected, shouldn't A also be resurrected?

At the very least, a strong, sincere letter of apology from the state to A's family would be in order. Of course, that assumes A wanted B to be dead and stay dead. If B is resurected and A wanted him dead, than the A's got no business getting himself/herself resurected.

LibraryLady · 31st March 2009, 07:58 AM

I just mentioned this (local) story to a co-worker. His response, "What?!"

Lonewulf · 31st March 2009, 08:12 AM

I think it was clever. Silly, but clever.

Shalamar · 31st March 2009, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Only if you have enough gold for the diamond.

And what would a 5000 gp diamond be in modern terms?

Hrm..

TragicMonkey · 31st March 2009, 09:17 AM

If resurrection occurs, then the victim is no longer dead, and therefore can't have been murdered. The crime would have to downgrade to attempted murder, or assault.

Of course, if resurrection occurs, we will all have more to worry about than legal quibbling and court cases. Impending Cylon invasion, zombie attacks, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Armageddon....

timhau · 31st March 2009, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Quote:

He said his client is "just as much of a victim as her son."

Uh, no, she isn't, you moron.

Yes she is, if she's been starved to death and then resurrected.

tyr_13 · 31st March 2009, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Shalamar

And what would a 5000 gp diamond be in modern terms?

Hrm..

Roughly $35,000 US.

Tricky · 31st March 2009, 06:25 PM

I guess prosecutors were willing to make this small concession.

Quote:

A Maryland woman involved with a group described as a religious cult pleaded guilty in the starvation death of her son, but insisted that the charges be dropped when he is resurrected.

The condition was made a part of Ria Ramkissoon's plea agreement, officials said. She entered the plea Monday in Baltimore, Maryland, to a first-degree felony count of child abuse resulting in death, her attorney, Steven Silverman, said Tuesday.
***
Ramkissoon and the others are accused of denying Javon food after the group's leader, a 40-year-old woman who goes by the name Queen Antoinette, decreed the boy was a demon since he refused to say "amen" after meals, Silverman said.

I don't think they've put her cell on standby.

But we understand, don't we?

Quote:

"Once you get to understanding the story, understanding what Ria went through, and her intentions ... it becomes quite clear that Ria, although many may not think her hands are clean, a reasonable, rational person would have some sympathy."

quixotecoyote · 31st March 2009, 06:28 PM

Hey Tricky, I think some wiseass reported this thread as a duplicate.

Tricky · 31st March 2009, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

Hey Tricky, I think some wiseass reported this thread as a duplicate.

Arrgh! I actually looked for one, but the title of BP's thread was ambiguous. So I went with my title in the merge.

Euromutt · 31st March 2009, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Roughly $35,000 US.

But only $32,995 at Jared, the galleria of jewelry!

BPSCG · 1st April 2009, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Arrgh! I actually looked for one, but the title of BP's thread was ambiguous. So I went with my title in the merge.

Typical bastage moderator behavior, crushing the common working-class poster. And how'd you get to be moderator, anyway? By exploiting the workers, hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma, and perpetuating the economic and social differences in the forum.

Darat · 1st April 2009, 05:58 AM

And?

Puppycow · 1st April 2009, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Let's be fair, now. Christians believe that resurrection only happened once, two millennia ago, and isn't going to happen again, because the one time it did happen was a very special case. This lady and her woo cult seem to think you can resurrect anybody.

I think that a thing is either possible or it is not. In fact the belief that it could happen once but only once seems even more illogical, if you think about it. If it can be done once, it is possible in principle to do it again.
With divine intervention, anything is possible.

This woman's belief could be restated as follows: Belief in a God who listens to and sometimes grants prayers and who is powerful enough to bring the dead back to life. Different particulars, but same principle.

headscratcher4 · 1st April 2009, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I think that a thing is either possible or it is not. In fact the belief that it could happen once but only once seems even more illogical, if you think about it. If it can be done once, it is possible in principle to do it again.
With divine intervention, anything is possible.

This woman's belief could be restated as follows: Belief in a God who listens to and sometimes grants prayers and who is powerful enough to bring the dead back to life. Different particulars, but same principle.

Besides, she has precident...it has happened more than once, if you are a believer, Jesus, of course, and, if I'm not mistaken, Lazerus was raised from the dead also.

shemp · 1st April 2009, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

And?

For once I agree with our fine young cannibal. If you were a gentleman with even a modicum of decency, you would ban yourself immediately!

Chaos · 1st April 2009, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Roughly $35,000 US.

If we assume one gold piece to be about 1/10 of an ounce of gold, and 1 ounce of gold to be about $800, we´re talking about $400,000.

tyr_13 · 1st April 2009, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Chaos

If we assume one gold piece to be about 1/10 of an ounce of gold, and 1 ounce of gold to be about $800, we´re talking about $400,000.

Actually I was going on an adjusted formula based on the purchasing power of a gold piece and for the availability and therefore price adjustment of diamonds. A straight figure would have come out to $70,000, but diamonds of high quality are easier to get comparatively.

I actually used the price of a cow and a house to calculate the purchasing power of a gold piece.

Beerina · 1st April 2009, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

What? The prosecution agreed to a plea that included a clause that a child may be resurrected? Please tell me that's not true.

Well, techno-rapture techniques, which are just an engineering problem and not a metaphysical one after all, could throw a huge monkey wrench into the whole "unlawful killing" standard definition of murder.

Father Dagon · 1st April 2009, 11:31 AM

o_O This reminds me of the moral of the story The Monkey Fist: Be careful about what you wish, it might come true.

maddog · 1st April 2009, 11:58 AM

Two eight-hour sessions of deprogramming? SHe should have gone straight to the padded room for a long time.

Lonewulf · 1st April 2009, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by maddog

Two eight-hour sessions of deprogramming? SHe should have gone straight to the padded room for a long time.

Even if the "deprogramming" could work?

Skeptic · 1st April 2009, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

What? The prosecution agreed to a plea that included a clause that a child may be resurrected? Please tell me that's not true.

(Shrug)

Why not? Might as well add that clause to every murder case. "Life in prison, or until the victim comes back to life, whichever comes first".

LibraryLady · 1st April 2009, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Father Dagon

o_O This reminds me of the moral of the story The Monkey Fist: Be careful about what you wish, it might come true.

Are you thinking of The Monkey's Paw?

Lonewulf · 1st April 2009, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

(Shrug)

Why not? Might as well add that clause to every murder case. "Life in prison, or until the victim comes back to life, whichever comes first".

You know, the only problem I have is, if resurrection WAS real, that wouldn't mean that the crime wasn't committed. It would probably count more as "assault" than "murder", but if the killer really wanted to *kill*, and not just "kill until resurrected", then it probably should still be counted as murder.

Of course, at this point, as resurrection is not real and is a long way off if possible (technologically), like you said, "why not?" We can always change things once it does become real.

31st March 2009, 04:19 AM	#1
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Conviction for death of child to be reversed if he comes back to life. Quote: A 22-year-old woman accused of starving her infant son to death pleaded guilty Monday afternoon to one count of child abuse resulting in death and will be released from jail in exchange for her cooperation against her co-defendants, who prosecutors say are fellow members of a cult called 1 Mind Ministries. The unusual plea agreement also includes a "process of deprogramming" for Ria Ramkissoon and the promise that charges will be dropped if 2-year-old Javon Thompson is resurrected. Ramkissoon's attorney said his client insisted on the clause, which he believes is a first in American legal history, because she still holds out hope that her son will be brought back to life. Prosecutors say the five suspects belonged to a small group of adults and children whose leader, Queen Antoinette, is accused of ordering members in January 2007 to withhold food and water from Javon. She believed he was a demon because he did not say "Amen" after he was fed, according to a statement of facts read by prosecutors. After he died, Antoinette laid Javon's body on a couch, and the others knelt and prayed while Ramkissoon danced around the body, Assistant State's Attorney Julie Drake said. The group carried his remains in a green suitcase when they later moved to Philadelphia. Link Quote: Defense attorney Steven D. Silverman said Ramkissoon is still brainwashed by the cult and will undergo two eight-hour sessions of "deprogramming" with a cult expert after she is released... "Ria does not to this day believe she was victimized by a cult," Silverman said. "She believes that the child will be resurrected, and that if she gives up hope of that happening, it would call decisions she's made in the past into question." He said his client is "just as much of a victim as her son." Uh, no, she isn't, you moron.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

31st March 2009, 04:23 AM	#2
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,669	What? The prosecution agreed to a plea that included a clause that a child may be resurrected? Please tell me that's not true.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

31st March 2009, 04:33 AM	#3
politas Pirate King Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 1,081	Hey, when you look at it from a rational point of view, the Prosecution gives away absolutely nothing, and gets her to agree.
	__________________ Myk Rational Capital Podcast

31st March 2009, 06:11 AM	#4
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,784	Amazing how weak-minded some people are. Cults and religions are fascinating in what they can get such people to believe. Her belief in the possibility of resurrection is not objectively any more illogical than that of Christians, a majority of the people in the US.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

31st March 2009, 06:31 AM	#5
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by Puppycow Amazing how weak-minded some people are. Cults and religions are fascinating in what they can get such people to believe. Her belief in the possibility of resurrection is not objectively any more illogical than that of Christians, a majority of the people in the US. Let's be fair, now. Christians believe that resurrection only happened once, two millennia ago, and isn't going to happen again, because the one time it did happen was a very special case. This lady and her woo cult seem to think you can resurrect anybody.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

31st March 2009, 06:58 AM	#6
Rasmus Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,138	Originally Posted by BPSCG Let's be fair, now. Christians believe that resurrection only happened once, two millennia ago, and isn't going to happen again, because the one time it did happen was a very special case. This lady and her woo cult seem to think you can resurrect anybody. Ever heard of the rapture? I am fair: Christians tend to believe a great many concepts that are simply insane. They may occasionally be less harmful, but they are certainly not intrinsically less mindbogglingly stupid than other beliefs that are just less mainstream. Also, what about Lazarus, the widow's son in Lain (spelling?) or the daughter of Jairus? Never mind that the whole idea of Christianity is that all believers will somehow survive their own death?
Rasmus Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,138	__________________ "Well, the religious community could not just make it up." - JetLeg

31st March 2009, 07:05 AM	#7
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,432	Originally Posted by BPSCG Let's be fair, now. Christians believe that resurrection only happened once, two millennia ago, and isn't going to happen again, because the one time it did happen was a very special case. This lady and her woo cult seem to think you can resurrect anybody. Yes and no. There is a lot of belief in resurection as part of the after life or the end of the world. Not so much in random cases. But wasn't one of saint Nicolas's miracles bringing 3 guys back to life? So not exactly that extreme or out of bounds.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

31st March 2009, 07:08 AM	#8
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by Rasmus Ever heard of the rapture? (...snip...) Also, what about Lazarus, the widow's son in Lain (spelling?) or the daughter of Jairus? Don't count. All accomplished with divine assistance. (You might not be able to see it from your side of the screen, but my tongue is planted firmly in my cheek...)
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

31st March 2009, 07:11 AM	#9
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,674	They thought the baby was a demon because the infant didn't say amen? I'm all for this plea deal if it sends the cult leader to jail until she is resurrected.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

31st March 2009, 07:13 AM	#10
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,432	Originally Posted by tyr_13 They thought the baby was a demon because the infant didn't say amen? It seems the child was 2 not an infant. see Quote: The unusual plea agreement also includes a "process of deprogramming" for Ria Ramkissoon and the promise that charges will be dropped if 2-year-old Javon Thompson is resurrected
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

31st March 2009, 07:18 AM	#11
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by tyr_13 They thought the baby was a demon because the infant didn't say amen? Originally Posted by ponderingturtle It seems the child was 2 not an infant. Then the little brat got what he deserved.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

31st March 2009, 07:23 AM	#12
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	I am for any prosecutor striking plea deals with murderers based on the deal being negated by the victim's resurection. BUT, the proscutor should NEVER negotiate away the resurected victim's right to sue in civil court.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

31st March 2009, 07:47 AM	#13
shemp Timothy, Timothy, where on earth did you go? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: trapped in a cave-in with Joe Posts: 12,892	If A murders B, and A is executed, and B is then resurrected, shouldn't A also be resurrected?
	__________________ Church on Sunday, sleep and nod Tryin' to duck the wrath of God Preacher's fillin' us with fright Tryin' to tell us what he thinks is right He really got to be some kind of nut (I can't use it!) Tryin' to make it real - compared to what?

31st March 2009, 07:48 AM	#14
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,674	Originally Posted by shemp If A murders B, and A is executed, and B is then resurrected, shouldn't A also be resurrected? Only if you have enough gold for the diamond.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

31st March 2009, 07:49 AM	#15
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by shemp If A murders B, and A is executed, and B is then resurrected, shouldn't A also be resurrected? Only if resurrection forgives the murder.
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31st March 2009, 07:56 AM	#16
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	Originally Posted by shemp If A murders B, and A is executed, and B is then resurrected, shouldn't A also be resurrected? At the very least, a strong, sincere letter of apology from the state to A's family would be in order. Of course, that assumes A wanted B to be dead and stay dead. If B is resurected and A wanted him dead, than the A's got no business getting himself/herself resurected.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson Last edited by headscratcher4; 31st March 2009 at 07:57 AM.

31st March 2009, 07:58 AM	#17
LibraryLady ...but not JUST a LibraryLady Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Building a house in the common ground Posts: 13,078	I just mentioned this (local) story to a co-worker. His response, "What?!"
	__________________ What would Hüsker Dü? I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about. Mildred Loving

31st March 2009, 08:12 AM	#18
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	I think it was clever. Silly, but clever.
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31st March 2009, 08:48 AM	#19
Shalamar Dark Lord of the JREF Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Super Star Destroyer Executor Posts: 2,397	Originally Posted by tyr_13 Only if you have enough gold for the diamond. And what would a 5000 gp diamond be in modern terms? Hrm..
	__________________ "The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."

31st March 2009, 09:17 AM	#20
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,108	If resurrection occurs, then the victim is no longer dead, and therefore can't have been murdered. The crime would have to downgrade to attempted murder, or assault. Of course, if resurrection occurs, we will all have more to worry about than legal quibbling and court cases. Impending Cylon invasion, zombie attacks, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Armageddon....
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

31st March 2009, 09:26 AM	#21
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 9,686	Originally Posted by BPSCG Quote: He said his client is "just as much of a victim as her son." Uh, no, she isn't, you moron. Yes she is, if she's been starved to death and then resurrected.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

31st March 2009, 09:55 AM	#22
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,674	Originally Posted by Shalamar And what would a 5000 gp diamond be in modern terms? Hrm.. Roughly $35,000 US.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

31st March 2009, 06:25 PM	#23
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,371	Conviction for death of child to be reversed if he comes back to life. I guess prosecutors were willing to make this small concession. Quote: A Maryland woman involved with a group described as a religious cult pleaded guilty in the starvation death of her son, but insisted that the charges be dropped when he is resurrected. The condition was made a part of Ria Ramkissoon's plea agreement, officials said. She entered the plea Monday in Baltimore, Maryland, to a first-degree felony count of child abuse resulting in death, her attorney, Steven Silverman, said Tuesday. *** Ramkissoon and the others are accused of denying Javon food after the group's leader, a 40-year-old woman who goes by the name Queen Antoinette, decreed the boy was a demon since he refused to say "amen" after meals, Silverman said. I don't think they've put her cell on standby. But we understand, don't we? Quote: "Once you get to understanding the story, understanding what Ria went through, and her intentions ... it becomes quite clear that Ria, although many may not think her hands are clean, a reasonable, rational person would have some sympathy."
	Last edited by Tricky; 31st March 2009 at 06:26 PM.

31st March 2009, 06:28 PM	#24
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9,621	Hey Tricky, I think some wiseass reported this thread as a duplicate.
	__________________ If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea.

31st March 2009, 06:38 PM	#25
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,371	Originally Posted by quixotecoyote Hey Tricky, I think some wiseass reported this thread as a duplicate. Arrgh! I actually looked for one, but the title of BP's thread was ambiguous. So I went with my title in the merge.

31st March 2009, 11:54 PM	#26
Euromutt Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Auburn, WA, USA Posts: 1,094	Originally Posted by tyr_13 Roughly $35,000 US. But only $32,995 at Jared, the galleria of jewelry!
	__________________ "Sergeant Colon had had a broad education. He’d been to the School of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands to Reason, and was now a post-graduate student at the University of What Some Bloke In the Pub Told Me." - Terry Pratchett, Jingo by birth, by choice

1st April 2009, 05:36 AM	#27
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by Tricky Arrgh! I actually looked for one, but the title of BP's thread was ambiguous. So I went with my title in the merge. Typical bastage moderator behavior, crushing the common working-class poster. And how'd you get to be moderator, anyway? By exploiting the workers, hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma, and perpetuating the economic and social differences in the forum.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

1st April 2009, 05:58 AM	#28
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,793	And?
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

1st April 2009, 07:36 AM	#29
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,784	Originally Posted by BPSCG Let's be fair, now. Christians believe that resurrection only happened once, two millennia ago, and isn't going to happen again, because the one time it did happen was a very special case. This lady and her woo cult seem to think you can resurrect anybody. I think that a thing is either possible or it is not. In fact the belief that it could happen once but only once seems even more illogical, if you think about it. If it can be done once, it is possible in principle to do it again. With divine intervention, anything is possible. This woman's belief could be restated as follows: Belief in a God who listens to and sometimes grants prayers and who is powerful enough to bring the dead back to life. Different particulars, but same principle.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

1st April 2009, 08:01 AM	#30
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	Originally Posted by Puppycow I think that a thing is either possible or it is not. In fact the belief that it could happen once but only once seems even more illogical, if you think about it. If it can be done once, it is possible in principle to do it again. With divine intervention, anything is possible. This woman's belief could be restated as follows: Belief in a God who listens to and sometimes grants prayers and who is powerful enough to bring the dead back to life. Different particulars, but same principle. Besides, she has precident...it has happened more than once, if you are a believer, Jesus, of course, and, if I'm not mistaken, Lazerus was raised from the dead also.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

1st April 2009, 08:38 AM	#31
shemp Timothy, Timothy, where on earth did you go? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: trapped in a cave-in with Joe Posts: 12,892	Originally Posted by Darat And? For once I agree with our fine young cannibal. If you were a gentleman with even a modicum of decency, you would ban yourself immediately!
	__________________ Church on Sunday, sleep and nod Tryin' to duck the wrath of God Preacher's fillin' us with fright Tryin' to tell us what he thinks is right He really got to be some kind of nut (I can't use it!) Tryin' to make it real - compared to what?

1st April 2009, 09:49 AM	#32
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,779	Originally Posted by tyr_13 Roughly $35,000 US. If we assume one gold piece to be about 1/10 of an ounce of gold, and 1 ounce of gold to be about $800, we´re talking about $400,000.
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

1st April 2009, 10:08 AM	#33
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,674	Originally Posted by Chaos If we assume one gold piece to be about 1/10 of an ounce of gold, and 1 ounce of gold to be about $800, we´re talking about $400,000. Actually I was going on an adjusted formula based on the purchasing power of a gold piece and for the availability and therefore price adjustment of diamonds. A straight figure would have come out to $70,000, but diamonds of high quality are easier to get comparatively. I actually used the price of a cow and a house to calculate the purchasing power of a gold piece.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

1st April 2009, 10:29 AM	#34
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by lionking What? The prosecution agreed to a plea that included a clause that a child may be resurrected? Please tell me that's not true. Well, techno-rapture techniques, which are just an engineering problem and not a metaphysical one after all, could throw a huge monkey wrench into the whole "unlawful killing" standard definition of murder.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

1st April 2009, 11:31 AM	#35
Father Dagon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Mater Evropa, Sol-III Posts: 1,193	o_O This reminds me of the moral of the story The Monkey Fist: Be careful about what you wish, it might come true.
	__________________ "Eh-ya-ya-ya-yahaah - e'yayayayaaaa... nhg'aaaaa... ngh'aaaa... h'yuh... h'yuh... HELP! HELP!... ff-ff-ff-FATHER! FATHER! YOG-SOTHOTH"