[Merged] Conviction for death of child to be reversed if he comes back to life. - Page 2

politas · 2nd April 2009, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

(Shrug)

Why not? Might as well add that clause to every murder case. "Life in prison, or until the victim comes back to life, whichever comes first".

I wonder how many times you could kill the Dalai Lama and get away with it under that law?

headscratcher4 · 2nd April 2009, 05:59 AM

Of course, this whole resurection problem is going to have serious consequences for estate law and tax planning purposes. For example, does a resurected person owe taxes for the period while dead, or is death simply one more tax loop-hole like certain safe harbors and off-shore investments? Also, do you have to give back what you inherited from a dead but now resurected relative or bequeather? The likely answer to that is yes, but if, for example, you inherited real property, sold that property and lost the proceeds in Vegas, recovery might be real difficult. Perhaps we should have a death waiting period (above and beyond current probate rules, or the rules,for example, of declaring a missing person dead -- usually about 8 years). So, for instance, if a person stays dead a minimum of, say, five years, than inheritence can take place without fear of having to give the money back in the case of a singular resurection as opposed to, say, the rapture (where there would be mass resurection but one must also assume it is the end of time so property inheritence and taxation issues might fall by the wayside in the final battle between the forces of Christ and those of the Devil). Certainly, many of these issues are specultive, but that is indeed the thrill of full estate and tax planning.

GreyICE · 2nd April 2009, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Well, techno-rapture techniques, which are just an engineering problem and not a metaphysical one after all, could throw a huge monkey wrench into the whole "unlawful killing" standard definition of murder.

If we ever hit the point where we can 'resleeve' our minds if our body happens to get destroyed, 'murder' is obviously unlawful destruction of property (possibly with psychological trauma thrown in there, depending on how its done).

This qualifies under the headings of 'problems we would love to have.'

BPSCG · 2nd April 2009, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by GreyICE

This qualifies under the headings of 'problems we would love to have.'

Meh - I'm just gonna have my head cut off after I die and put in cold storage with Walt Disney until my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandnephew (my sister's kids are Jewish, so there's bound to be a doctor in there) can being me back in 2409 and I can regale them with stories of how miserable we had it back in the 21st century compared to the 25th and how they're all spoiled rotten and should consider themselves lucky and quit your whining about your 17-minute work week and $378,525.49 an hour minimum wage and how cold the weather was on your vacation in Pyongyang last month and global cooling that's causing the polar ice caps to get perilously close to Mexico City and how the Democrat robot president is ruining the country, can't wait until 2412 when we can elect that libertarian, Koko the Hypergorilla, who'll reduce our taxes to 98% of our gross income.

I can't wait.

GreyICE · 2nd April 2009, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Meh - I'm just gonna have my head cut off after I die and put in cold storage with Walt Disney until my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandnephew (my sister's kids are Jewish, so there's bound to be a doctor in there) can being me back in 2409 and I can regale them with stories of how miserable we had it back in the 21st century compared to the 25th and how they're all spoiled rotten and should consider themselves lucky and quit your whining about your 17-minute work week and $378,525.49 an hour minimum wage and how cold the weather was on your vacation in Pyongyang last month and global cooling that's causing the polar ice caps to get perilously close to Mexico City and how the Democrat robot president is ruining the country, can't wait until 2412 when we can elect that libertarian, Koko the Hypergorilla, who'll reduce our taxes to 98% of our gross income.

I can't wait.

The future shall be far weirder than you anticipate. It always is.

luchog · 5th April 2009, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by headscratcher4

For example, does a resurected person owe taxes for the period while dead, or is death simply one more tax loop-hole like certain safe harbors and off-shore investments?

Well, it worked for Hotblack Desiato.

Holler Hoojer · 5th April 2009, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by headscratcher4

Of course, this whole resurection problem is going to have serious consequences for estate law and tax planning purposes. For example, does a resurected person owe taxes for the period while dead, or is death simply one more tax loop-hole like certain safe harbors and off-shore investments? Also, do you have to give back what you inherited from a dead but now resurected relative or bequeather? The likely answer to that is yes, but if, for example, you inherited real property, sold that property and lost the proceeds in Vegas, recovery might be real difficult. Perhaps we should have a death waiting period (above and beyond current probate rules, or the rules,for example, of declaring a missing person dead -- usually about 8 years). So, for instance, if a person stays dead a minimum of, say, five years, than inheritence can take place without fear of having to give the money back in the case of a singular resurection as opposed to, say, the rapture (where there would be mass resurection but one must also assume it is the end of time so property inheritence and taxation issues might fall by the wayside in the final battle between the forces of Christ and those of the Devil). Certainly, many of these issues are specultive, but that is indeed the thrill of full estate and tax planning.

And, think of all the trouble this will make for the Mormons when they try to rebaptize dead people. "Psst, Rev. Git outta the pool. We just saw ole Bill in the back of the church and he says he converted to Wiccan while he wuz in Heaven."

ejk · 5th April 2009, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

You know, the only problem I have is, if resurrection WAS real, that wouldn't mean that the crime wasn't committed. It would probably count more as "assault" than "murder", but if the killer really wanted to *kill*, and not just "kill until resurrected", then it probably should still be counted as murder.

Technically, the legal definition of "murder" (or manslaughter) only requires that the victim be killed. To my knowledge, the law does not require that s/he remain dead. Therefore, resurrection would not require reversal of a murder conviction.

Of course, if the resurrection occurred before the trial was over, it might be hard to get that conviction in the first place.

Seriously, one of the things I found most disturbing about the press coverage of this wholly disturbing story was a lengthy and apparently straight-faced discussion in the Washington Post article about the difficulty of distinguishing delusions from strongly held religious beliefs. That's right, "experts" debated whether a woman who purportedly believed her child could (and should) be starved to death but would then be brought back to life should be considered delusional. Somehow if she holds this belief as part of a religious belief system it's not delusional????

2nd April 2009, 04:08 AM	#41
politas Pirate King Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 1,081	Originally Posted by Skeptic (Shrug) Why not? Might as well add that clause to every murder case. "Life in prison, or until the victim comes back to life, whichever comes first". I wonder how many times you could kill the Dalai Lama and get away with it under that law?
	__________________ Myk Rational Capital Podcast

2nd April 2009, 05:59 AM	#42
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	Of course, this whole resurection problem is going to have serious consequences for estate law and tax planning purposes. For example, does a resurected person owe taxes for the period while dead, or is death simply one more tax loop-hole like certain safe harbors and off-shore investments? Also, do you have to give back what you inherited from a dead but now resurected relative or bequeather? The likely answer to that is yes, but if, for example, you inherited real property, sold that property and lost the proceeds in Vegas, recovery might be real difficult. Perhaps we should have a death waiting period (above and beyond current probate rules, or the rules,for example, of declaring a missing person dead -- usually about 8 years). So, for instance, if a person stays dead a minimum of, say, five years, than inheritence can take place without fear of having to give the money back in the case of a singular resurection as opposed to, say, the rapture (where there would be mass resurection but one must also assume it is the end of time so property inheritence and taxation issues might fall by the wayside in the final battle between the forces of Christ and those of the Devil). Certainly, many of these issues are specultive, but that is indeed the thrill of full estate and tax planning.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

2nd April 2009, 11:26 AM	#43
GreyICE Guest Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,173	Originally Posted by Beerina Well, techno-rapture techniques, which are just an engineering problem and not a metaphysical one after all, could throw a huge monkey wrench into the whole "unlawful killing" standard definition of murder. If we ever hit the point where we can 'resleeve' our minds if our body happens to get destroyed, 'murder' is obviously unlawful destruction of property (possibly with psychological trauma thrown in there, depending on how its done). This qualifies under the headings of 'problems we would love to have.'
GreyICE Guest Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,173

2nd April 2009, 11:44 AM	#44
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by GreyICE This qualifies under the headings of 'problems we would love to have.' Meh - I'm just gonna have my head cut off after I die and put in cold storage with Walt Disney until my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandnephew (my sister's kids are Jewish, so there's bound to be a doctor in there) can being me back in 2409 and I can regale them with stories of how miserable we had it back in the 21st century compared to the 25th and how they're all spoiled rotten and should consider themselves lucky and quit your whining about your 17-minute work week and $378,525.49 an hour minimum wage and how cold the weather was on your vacation in Pyongyang last month and global cooling that's causing the polar ice caps to get perilously close to Mexico City and how the Democrat robot president is ruining the country, can't wait until 2412 when we can elect that libertarian, Koko the Hypergorilla, who'll reduce our taxes to 98% of our gross income. I can't wait.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

2nd April 2009, 11:45 AM	#45
GreyICE Guest Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,173	Originally Posted by BPSCG Meh - I'm just gonna have my head cut off after I die and put in cold storage with Walt Disney until my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandnephew (my sister's kids are Jewish, so there's bound to be a doctor in there) can being me back in 2409 and I can regale them with stories of how miserable we had it back in the 21st century compared to the 25th and how they're all spoiled rotten and should consider themselves lucky and quit your whining about your 17-minute work week and $378,525.49 an hour minimum wage and how cold the weather was on your vacation in Pyongyang last month and global cooling that's causing the polar ice caps to get perilously close to Mexico City and how the Democrat robot president is ruining the country, can't wait until 2412 when we can elect that libertarian, Koko the Hypergorilla, who'll reduce our taxes to 98% of our gross income. I can't wait. The future shall be far weirder than you anticipate. It always is.
GreyICE Guest Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,173

5th April 2009, 05:21 PM	#46
luchog Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Emerald City Posts: 7,958	Originally Posted by headscratcher4 For example, does a resurected person owe taxes for the period while dead, or is death simply one more tax loop-hole like certain safe harbors and off-shore investments? Well, it worked for Hotblack Desiato.
	__________________ "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams "The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf "Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon

5th April 2009, 05:43 PM	#47
Holler Hoojer Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 422	Originally Posted by headscratcher4 Of course, this whole resurection problem is going to have serious consequences for estate law and tax planning purposes. For example, does a resurected person owe taxes for the period while dead, or is death simply one more tax loop-hole like certain safe harbors and off-shore investments? Also, do you have to give back what you inherited from a dead but now resurected relative or bequeather? The likely answer to that is yes, but if, for example, you inherited real property, sold that property and lost the proceeds in Vegas, recovery might be real difficult. Perhaps we should have a death waiting period (above and beyond current probate rules, or the rules,for example, of declaring a missing person dead -- usually about 8 years). So, for instance, if a person stays dead a minimum of, say, five years, than inheritence can take place without fear of having to give the money back in the case of a singular resurection as opposed to, say, the rapture (where there would be mass resurection but one must also assume it is the end of time so property inheritence and taxation issues might fall by the wayside in the final battle between the forces of Christ and those of the Devil). Certainly, many of these issues are specultive, but that is indeed the thrill of full estate and tax planning. And, think of all the trouble this will make for the Mormons when they try to rebaptize dead people. "Psst, Rev. Git outta the pool. We just saw ole Bill in the back of the church and he says he converted to Wiccan while he wuz in Heaven."

5th April 2009, 06:13 PM	#48
ejk Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 380	Originally Posted by Lonewulf You know, the only problem I have is, if resurrection WAS real, that wouldn't mean that the crime wasn't committed. It would probably count more as "assault" than "murder", but if the killer really wanted to kill, and not just "kill until resurrected", then it probably should still be counted as murder. Technically, the legal definition of "murder" (or manslaughter) only requires that the victim be killed. To my knowledge, the law does not require that s/he remain dead. Therefore, resurrection would not require reversal of a murder conviction. Of course, if the resurrection occurred before the trial was over, it might be hard to get that conviction in the first place. Seriously, one of the things I found most disturbing about the press coverage of this wholly disturbing story was a lengthy and apparently straight-faced discussion in the Washington Post article about the difficulty of distinguishing delusions from strongly held religious beliefs. That's right, "experts" debated whether a woman who purportedly believed her child could (and should) be starved to death but would then be brought back to life should be considered delusional. Somehow if she holds this belief as part of a religious belief system it's not delusional????