|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
3rd April 2009, 04:02 PM | #1 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
[Closed]Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center
Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe
pp.7-31 (25) Authors: Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley, Bradley R. Larsen doi: 10.2174/1874412500902010007 Abstract We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic. Keywords: JScanning electron microscopy, X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy, Differential scanning calorimetry, DSC analysis, World Trade Center, WTC dust, 9/11, Iron-rich microspheres, Thermite, Super-thermite, Energetic nanocomposites, Nano-thermite Affiliation: Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, Copenhagen, DK-2100, Denmark. http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/co...001/7TOCPJ.SGM MORE DETAILS: "Formally published in a peer-reviewed Chemical Physics journal, today:" http://www.911blogger.com/node/19761 The end is near for the archie debunkers. |
3rd April 2009, 04:06 PM | #2 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,862
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:07 PM | #3 |
Scholar
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 97
|
What happens at the end again?
|
3rd April 2009, 04:10 PM | #4 |
0.25 short of being half-witted
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
|
Fail. They didn't publish in the the legitimate Chemical Physics journal or the Journal of Chemical Physics (yes, they are two different ones). They published in the Bentham Open Chemical Physics Journal. See R.Mackey's posts on their editorial policies to understand why this is a fail.
|
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once." |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:12 PM | #5 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:13 PM | #6 |
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,843
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:15 PM | #7 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:15 PM | #8 |
Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,510
|
|
__________________
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...2b728514ea.gif "The evidence that the attacks of 9/11 were an inside job just keeps not coming in." --pomeroo |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:17 PM | #9 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:17 PM | #10 |
0.25 short of being half-witted
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
|
They do not have a legitimate peer review process. Ryan Mackey uncovered this last year. You lose. Go do a search.
Besides, what you fail to understand is that peer review is merely the first step in validation. If you had had a proper education in scientific research, you'd understand this. Refereeing only guarantees that method was followed, not that accuracy of results is achieved. That is only accomplished when results of other independent studies lend weight to the conclusions of a given paper. Learn, Galileo. You too often fire off posts without thought or understanding. |
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once." |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:18 PM | #11 |
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,843
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:19 PM | #12 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:20 PM | #13 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,885
|
I think I am going to have to cry myself to sleep because of this Earth shattering absolute proof of an inside jobby job.
|
3rd April 2009, 04:21 PM | #14 |
0.25 short of being half-witted
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
|
Found it.
This has been covered before. Jones et. al. publishing in vanity publications is nowhere near the equivalent of publishing in established, legitimate scientific journals. On the contrary, it's an admittance of failure to be taken seriously by the academic community. On top of that, Jones's research has to date been shoddy. This is a poor stab of legitimacy on Jones et. al.'s part, and yet another demonstration of Galileo's inability to comprehend the reality of how research knowledge is generated and validated. |
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once." |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:21 PM | #15 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 422
|
Omigosh! I knew it! They finally found rust and traces of aluminum in structural steel. Please, dear lord, don't let them come to Pittsburgh. We've got piles and piles of conspiracy evidence.
|
3rd April 2009, 04:25 PM | #16 |
0.25 short of being half-witted
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
|
Jesus H... I'm only at the abstract, and they're trying to legitimize their "thermite chips" thesis...
This is a loser, folks. I'll read it through, but it simply looks like this is just a writeup of some spectroscopic work done on those chips. How that proves deliberate destruction of the towers in the absence of effects found on the structural steel, I don't know, but I doubt they'll even try to make that argument in this paper. |
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once." |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:25 PM | #17 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
The scientists found thermite. Let's see you and your authorities debunk that. You are unable to think for yourself, and merely rely on what others tell you. That is the mentality at JREF. Your "conspriracy" forum is going down. We have proven that thermite was found.
Argue the evidence or shut up. |
3rd April 2009, 04:25 PM | #18 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 7,032
|
No, its a pay to play vanity journal. Its already been debunked. The only condition you must meet to publish in it is to send in your check. The owners of the journal cannot even provide a who-is of the peer reviewers. They are not even aware of the content they allow to be published. They just cash the checks. Its a boiler room operation out of India. The fact that they had to resort to publishing outside of recognized scientific journals in an attempt to hide their folly means epic fail. Sorry you lose. |
__________________
911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude. |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:29 PM | #19 |
0.25 short of being half-witted
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
|
|
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once." |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:29 PM | #20 | ||
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,843
|
http://www.changetowin.org/connect/images/fail.jpg
|
||
3rd April 2009, 04:30 PM | #21 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:31 PM | #22 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:34 PM | #23 |
0.25 short of being half-witted
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
|
Finding Iron oxide and aluminum in a tower built from steel with an aluminum facade is not unexpected, Galileo. On top of that, there's nothing in this paper that's not been restated before in previous threads. This is a total recycle.
If you want evidence, reconcile the fact that there was no thermite severance of the steel columns. Also reconcile the fact that, if you continue to mistakenly think thermite is an "explosive", why there's no evidence of such explosions left i.e. broken windows for blocks around, barotrauma, etc. Regardless of what Jones and his misled gang find, the fact remains that there was no sign of thermite or explosive severance on the recovered steel, nor was there any other evidence of it's emplacement. This argument has been made over and over before; go do a search for it. It's the conspiracy peddling side that's yet to actually deal with the real evidence. |
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once." |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:34 PM | #24 |
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,843
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:35 PM | #25 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 7,032
|
Where have you been? Its been debunked months ago. Its paint. Also where the chain of custody? Did scientists collect and map collection points and protect the samples from contamination or did some lady swipe some from her lower Manhattan condo windowsill on a swiffer pad? |
__________________
911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude. |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:39 PM | #26 |
0.25 short of being half-witted
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
|
Sunstealer, if you happen to read this thread, perhaps you can speak towards the spectroscopy Jones embedded in that report (obtainable here: http://www.bentham.org/open/tocpj/openaccess2.htm). To me, it looks like a rehash of his "microspheres" work, but this is supposedly on different substances. I simply don't have the spectroscopic knowledge to see whether it's a rehash or something new.
Regardless, finding iron oxide and aluminum from the Twin Towers is like finding water in the ocean i.e. fully expected. So I'm not about to cede an iota of legitimacy to their allegations of incendiaries use; it's a long step from finding those two substances and saying that an incendiary was used to topple the towers. In spite of that, it still might be instructive for lurkers and others to know what an experienced hand at reading X-EDS results has to say about his work. |
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once." |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:40 PM | #27 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,014
|
|
__________________
"ut biberent, quando esse nollent " (if they will not eat, then they will drink) -- Publius Claudius Pulcher "In this universe, effect follows cause. I've complained about it but ... " -- House |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:44 PM | #28 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:46 PM | #29 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:47 PM | #30 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:51 PM | #31 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,014
|
|
__________________
"ut biberent, quando esse nollent " (if they will not eat, then they will drink) -- Publius Claudius Pulcher "In this universe, effect follows cause. I've complained about it but ... " -- House |
|
3rd April 2009, 04:51 PM | #32 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:51 PM | #33 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,862
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:53 PM | #34 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:53 PM | #35 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,885
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:54 PM | #36 |
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,843
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:54 PM | #37 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
Mods:
Please move this to the mental pygmies section. The people here have no interest in rational or scientific discussion. I am very disappointed in the quality of the James Randi forum. |
3rd April 2009, 04:56 PM | #38 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:57 PM | #39 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
|
|
3rd April 2009, 04:58 PM | #40 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,885
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|