[Closed]Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center - Page 18

alienentity · 7th April 2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

Dr. Jones made these discoveries a few years ago. Now they have been independently verified by a new team of scientists and confirmed by tough referees.

Galileo also conforms the findings as well.

Excuse me for asking the obvious, but if Jones is one of the authors of this paper, how is it independent of him?

Isn't...that...a bit....contradictory? Warp speed Mr. Sulu!

bill smith · 7th April 2009, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

Wow, that would take a huge amount of therm*te to accomplish pools of molten steel.
They must've painted it on real thick, at least a couple mm.

You do realize that the two claims contradict one another don't you bill?

And the answer to the Aluminum question is in the picture I supplied of glowing Al. Didn't you see it?

With the best will in the world I would like to see the pic without the orange filter next time. Are you saying that you personally believe that metal that is a flat silver colour when molten glows orange ?

alienentity · 7th April 2009, 01:40 PM

Here you go bill, another pic of glowing molten aluminum. 'If it glows, your theory blows'

Galileo · 7th April 2009, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

Excuse me for asking the obvious, but if Jones is one of the authors of this paper, how is it independent of him?

Isn't...that...a bit....contradictory? Warp speed Mr. Sulu!

err, you think it's a conspiracy, or you think the other 8 scientists and the referees can think independently themsleves?

alienentity · 7th April 2009, 01:42 PM

bill asked 'Are you saying that you personally believe that metal that is a flat silver colour when molten glows orange ? '

I just look at the evidence. It's not about what I believe. It's about what IS.

bill smith · 7th April 2009, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

bill asked 'Are you saying that you personally believe that metal that is a flat silver colour when molten glows orange ? '

I just look at the evidence. It's not about what I believe. It's about what IS.

You either believe it or you don't. When you are so evasive I think we all get the message loud and clear.

alienentity · 7th April 2009, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

err, you think it's a conspiracy, or you think the other 8 scientists and the referees can think independently themsleves?

I have good evidence of a conspiracy

Do you actually consider the other 'scientists' (are Kevin Ryan and Gregg Roberts scientists?) independent? If so, maybe you need a better dictionary.

ozeco41 · 7th April 2009, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by bill smith

With the best will in the world I would like to see the pic without the orange filter next time. Are you saying that you personally believe that metal that is a flat silver colour when molten glows orange ?

No that is not what was being said Bill.

The question is how do you make such a large poole of molten steel at that one location in part of a building which is seriously on fire?

How do you get the steel to that point?

Before melting - if so who fires all the thermite to do the meltinjh etc etc....

After melting if you have just cut tens of columns with it? How do you get it to one point?
------ Channels for it to flow - who put the channels in place after the aircraft had bulldozed debris through the space?

------ Manual - suicide workers in fireproof suits who carry all the little bits from each of the cut columns and walk across the fire lor to pour each bnit into one pool?

Whichwever of those two you suggwest how do you keep it molten?

AND where do you hide the tons of molten aluminium so it doesn't fall out the same place and give evidence for your opponents???

Other than that there could be something in your claims.

alienentity · 7th April 2009, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by bill smith

You either believe it or you don't. When you are so evasive I think we all get the mssage loud and clear.

I already gave my opinion that the molten material is more likely to be Aluminum. You don't believe it glows orange, I provided evidence that it does.

What else do you want me to say? Are you always this resistant to the learning experience?

JamesB · 7th April 2009, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

I have good evidence of a conspiracy

Do you actually consider the other 'scientists' (are Kevin Ryan and Gregg Roberts scientists?) independent? If so, maybe you need a better dictionary.

Isn't Gourley a lawyer?

alienentity · 7th April 2009, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by JamesB

Isn't Gourley a lawyer?

He's now an independent scientist (wink)

Sunstealer · 7th April 2009, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by bill smith

Steel with a good dose of thermite or thermite with added sulphur (thermate) may well be molten at 1.000 degrees C.

How do you figure that Billy. Every metallurgist, materials engineer and Chemist on the planet will be extremely interested to know. Here is a diagram to help you. Explain using the diagram how that's possible or STFU and stop derailing the thread.

bill smith · 7th April 2009, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

I already gave my opinion that the molten material is more likely to be Aluminum. You don't believe it glows orange, I provided evidence that it does.

What else do you want me to say? Are you always this resistant to the learning experience?

No sweat. At least you have been clear now. You think that molten aluminium which is a flat silver colour glows orange.

bill smith · 7th April 2009, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Sunstealer

How do you figure that Billy. Every metallurgist, materials engineer and Chemist on the planet will be extremely interested to know. Here is a diagram to help you. Explain using the diagram how that's possible or STFU and stop derailing the thread.

http://www.calphad.com/graphs/Metast...%20Diagram.gif

What would I do with an irrelevent chart like that ????

Wolrab · 7th April 2009, 02:08 PM

I tried to read this thread from the start but couldn't stomach it anymore. On the Hindenburg episode of Mythbusters, they applied a thermite "paint" to their model and ignited it. Pretty GD cool, BTW. Why can't Jones paint some structural steel with any type of thermite he wants and actually demonstrate what he claims. Other than smoke and bright light, what the hell is going to happen to the steel? Will it warm up a little (somewhere back in the early pages 27 degrees C was mentioned, IIRC) or will it melt?
My bet is on the slightly warm up.
Where is Crazychainsaw when I need him!

Galileo · 7th April 2009, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

I have good evidence of a conspiracy

Do you actually consider the other 'scientists' (are Kevin Ryan and Gregg Roberts scientists?) independent? If so, maybe you need a better dictionary.

Like in the independent 9/11 Commission?

alienentity · 7th April 2009, 02:12 PM

bill, here's one more example of molten aluminum. Note the color of the splashes dribbling onto the ground. They don't look silvery to me?
How 'bout you?

Julio · 7th April 2009, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

I already gave my opinion that the molten material is more likely to be Aluminum. You don't believe it glows orange, I provided evidence that it does.

What else do you want me to say? Are you always this resistant to the learning experience?

This italian guy got response from NIST, saying that there was a Uninterruptible Power Supply on floor 81st. It could be related to the glowing fountain that NIST first said could be molten aluminium.

11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/02/ups-on-81st-floor-of-wtc2.html

GlennB · 7th April 2009, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by bill smith

What would I do with an irrelevent chart like that ????

You'd appreciate how ignorant you are of scientific facts.

Sunstealer · 7th April 2009, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by bill smith

What would I do with an irrelevent chart like that ????

Well now I know you are just trolling bearing in mind that is the most relevant chart anyone will ever come across with regards to steel.

Onto ignore you go - I'd also encourage others to do the same and not feed the troll(s).

DGM · 7th April 2009, 02:19 PM

Hey:
Why hasn't the Jones' boys staged a demonstration on a mock-up column? I offered a while back to supply the column to any "truther" that wanted to "cut it with therm?te" but got no takers. I'll still do it (except you have to pay shipping, it's been a little slow) to any "truther" willing to try (you fail you pay for the stock and fabrication, I'll give you a quote).
So how many orders should I get together?

bill smith · 7th April 2009, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

bill, here's one more example of molten aluminum. Note the color of the splashes dribbling onto the ground. They don't look silvery to me?
How 'bout you?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...bc1b59f9e0.jpg

It's actually funny that you use the word 'silvery'. That is exactly how Shyam Sunder of NIST described the molten stream pouring out of WTC2...'' it was 'silvery' he said. You are evidently of the opposite opinion.

I have messed about with molten alumnium before and it remained unfailingly silver. So me and Shyam are in lockstep and you are out of step with us ? lol

alienentity · 7th April 2009, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by bill smith

It's actually funny that you use the word 'silvery'. That is exactly how Shyam Sunder of NIST described the molten stream pouring out of WTC2...'' it was 'silvery' he said. You are evidently of the opposite opinion.

I have messed about with molten alumnium before and it remained unfailingly silver. So me and Shyam are in lockstep and you are out of step with us ? lol

Now look who's not answering the question....LOL

Does it look silvery to you in that picture or not? Just your opinion, or are you afraid to look at the pic?

BCR · 7th April 2009, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by bill smith

Your philosophy places you outside the ranks of the tradtional 9/11 Truther who unfailingly believes that 9/11 WAS an inside job. You may however be a Truther of sorts by your own definition.

No, you are confusing truther with "twoofer". Anyone starting with a conclusion already is not seeking "truth", but is attempting to support an intitial hypothesis (which is a** backwards).

ElMondoHummus · 7th April 2009, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sunstealer

Well now I know you are just trolling bearing in mind that is the most relevant chart anyone will ever come across with regards to steel.

Onto ignore you go - I'd also encourage others to do the same and not feed the troll(s).

LOL... I only have a bachelors, and even I recognize a phase diagram.

I'm not terribly competent in using it

, but at least I recognize it.

bill smith · 7th April 2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by 911files

No, you are confusing truther with "twoofer". Anyone starting with a conclusion already is not seeking "truth", but is attempting to support an intitial hypothesis (which is a** backwards).

'twoofer' is just an unclever name made up by somebody with no wit or imagination to mislabel the true Stalwart 9/11 Truthers. I was relieved that the name was so clueless. With a little application they could have come up with something much better. Too late now though. You are stuck with 'twoofer' which is just fine by us.

bill smith · 7th April 2009, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

Now look who's not answering the question....LOL

Does it look silvery to you in that picture or not? Just your opinion, or are you afraid to look at the pic?

I feel like I'm looking at it through rose-tinted glasses though. In this case Ido not believe what I am seeing. Or was it orange-tinted ?

BCR · 7th April 2009, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by bill smith

'twoofer' is just an unclever name made up by somebody with no wit or imagination to mislabel the true Stalwart 9/11 Truthers. I was relieved that the name was so clueless. With a little application they could have come up with something much better. Too late now though. You are stuck with 'twoofer' which is just fine by us.

Call me whatever you want, but at least I present evidence, not paint chips.

bill smith · 7th April 2009, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

Now look who's not answering the question....LOL

Does it look silvery to you in that picture or not? Just your opinion, or are you afraid to look at the pic?

Mind you the incidence of molten aluminium we are talking about took place in the open saylight. this much darker rpresentation may not be representative. Would molten aluminium in daylight glow orange too ? Or is that only in much darker places ?

leftysergeant · 7th April 2009, 02:53 PM

In more distant shots of the stuff pouring out, which catch it at a lower level, it does appear less red, which would be consistant with its cooling back to a silvery appearance.

Problem is that colors do not always remain stable in digital photography because cameras adjust to surroundings.

Bear in mind, too, that lead can be heated to a red glow before it evaporates. I do not have the referrences at hand to back this up, but I believe it will glow at lower temperatures than aluminum.

I am still betting that the stream is lead from the UPS. It was certainly in the right location.

T.A.M. · 7th April 2009, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by galileo

dr. Jones made these discoveries a few years ago. Now they have been independently verified by a new team of scientists and confirmed by tough referees.

galileo also confirms the findings as well.

roflmao

Galileo · 7th April 2009, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by 911files

No, you are confusing truther with "twoofer". Anyone starting with a conclusion already is not seeking "truth", but is attempting to support an intitial hypothesis (which is a** backwards).

Most 9/11 Truth seekers started out believing the official version, but have been swayed by the evidence.

It is the JREF archie debunkers who start out with the conclusion.

A W Smith · 7th April 2009, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by bill smith

Mind you the incidence of molten aluminium we are talking about took place in the open saylight. this much darker rpresentation may not be representative. Would molten aluminium in daylight glow orange too ? Or is that only in much darker places ?

That part of the tower was in the shade.

I need to ask, If this "active thermitic" substance was found in all those samples sent to jones 6 years after 9/11, samples I might add that were found in various locations as far away as the Brooklyn bridge. within a three inch thick layer of dust all over the southern tip of Manhattan. Why wasn't it ignited by all the fires around ground zero?

BCR · 7th April 2009, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

Most 9/11 Truth seekers started out believing the official version, but have been swayed by the evidence.

It is the JREF archie debunkers who start out with the conclusion.

No, they have been swayed by distortions of the evidence and disinformation because they don't take the time to critically analyze what they are fed by their gurus. The Dr. Jones paper is a fine example of that.

T.A.M. · 7th April 2009, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by 911files

No, they have been swayed by distortions of the evidence and disinformation because they don't take the time to critically analyze what they are fed by their gurus. The Dr. Jones paper is a fine example of that.

Amen!

TAM

Galileo · 7th April 2009, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by 911files

No, they have been swayed by distortions of the evidence and disinformation because they don't take the time to critically analyze what they are fed by their gurus. The Dr. Jones paper is a fine example of that.

You changed what you said first then. You said Truthers start with a conclusion. Now you say they don't start with a conclusion, but are swayed by bad evidence.

You are basically full of it, you don't know what you are talking about.

bill smith · 7th April 2009, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by A W Smith

That part of the tower was in the shade.

I need to ask, If this "active thermitic" substance was found in all those samples sent to jones 6 years after 9/11, samples I might add that were found in various locations as far away as the Brooklyn bridge. within a three inch thick layer of dust all over the southern tip of Manhattan. Why wasn't it ignited by all the fires around ground zero?

I don't know if the distribution was even or not. That will come out later. It's gettng time for NIST to produce heir samples of dust for comparison. I just hope they didn't get sent to 'China' too.

DGM · 7th April 2009, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

You changed what you said first then. You said Truthers start with a conclusion. Now you say they don't start with a conclusion, but are swayed by bad evidence.

You are basically full of it, you don't know what you are talking about.

Actually "truthers" start with nothing.

Doesn't it bother you that they can't support (with demonstration) what they claim to have been used (therm?te)?

Galileo · 7th April 2009, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by DGM

Actually "truthers" start with nothing.

Doesn't it bother you that they can't support (with demonstration) what they claim to have been used (therm?te)?

Starting with nothing, i.e., no conclusion is a good way to be objective.

JREFers always start with the conclusion, then use warped pseudo-science and anecdotal coincidences to justify whatever they are spouting that particular day.

DGM · 7th April 2009, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

Starting with nothing, i.e., no conclusion is a good way to be objective.

JREFers always start with the conclusion, then use warped pseudo-science and anecdotal coincidences to justify whatever they are spouting that particular day.

True, starting with nothing is a good way to be objective.

Care to deal with the second part of my post?

7th April 2009, 01:38 PM	#682
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	Originally Posted by alienentity Wow, that would take a huge amount of therm*te to accomplish pools of molten steel. They must've painted it on real thick, at least a couple mm. You do realize that the two claims contradict one another don't you bill? And the answer to the Aluminum question is in the picture I supplied of glowing Al. Didn't you see it? With the best will in the world I would like to see the pic without the orange filter next time. Are you saying that you personally believe that metal that is a flat silver colour when molten glows orange ?
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	__________________ Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal'

7th April 2009, 01:46 PM	#686
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	Originally Posted by alienentity bill asked 'Are you saying that you personally believe that metal that is a flat silver colour when molten glows orange ? ' I just look at the evidence. It's not about what I believe. It's about what IS. You either believe it or you don't. When you are so evasive I think we all get the message loud and clear.
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	__________________ Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal' Last edited by bill smith; 7th April 2009 at 01:47 PM. Reason: spelling

7th April 2009, 01:51 PM	#690
JamesB Master Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,136	Originally Posted by alienentity I have good evidence of a conspiracy Do you actually consider the other 'scientists' (are Kevin Ryan and Gregg Roberts scientists?) independent? If so, maybe you need a better dictionary. Isn't Gourley a lawyer?
JamesB Master Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,136	__________________ I said lots of things in NPH that I would not say today and that I did not repeat in NPHR, where I specifically corrected at least some of the errors I had made in that earlier book, written 5 years ago. -David Ray Griffin-

7th April 2009, 02:02 PM	#693
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	Originally Posted by alienentity I already gave my opinion that the molten material is more likely to be Aluminum. You don't believe it glows orange, I provided evidence that it does. What else do you want me to say? Are you always this resistant to the learning experience? No sweat. At least you have been clear now. You think that molten aluminium which is a flat silver colour glows orange.
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	__________________ Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal' Last edited by bill smith; 7th April 2009 at 02:11 PM. Reason: spelling

7th April 2009, 02:06 PM	#694
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	Originally Posted by Sunstealer How do you figure that Billy. Every metallurgist, materials engineer and Chemist on the planet will be extremely interested to know. Here is a diagram to help you. Explain using the diagram how that's possible or STFU and stop derailing the thread. http://www.calphad.com/graphs/Metast...%20Diagram.gif What would I do with an irrelevent chart like that ????
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	__________________ Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal'

7th April 2009, 01:34 PM	#681
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	Originally Posted by Galileo Dr. Jones made these discoveries a few years ago. Now they have been independently verified by a new team of scientists and confirmed by tough referees. Galileo also conforms the findings as well. Excuse me for asking the obvious, but if Jones is one of the authors of this paper, how is it independent of him? Isn't...that...a bit....contradictory? Warp speed Mr. Sulu!

7th April 2009, 01:40 PM	#683
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	Here you go bill, another pic of glowing molten aluminum. 'If it glows, your theory blows'

7th April 2009, 01:40 PM	#684
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by alienentity Excuse me for asking the obvious, but if Jones is one of the authors of this paper, how is it independent of him? Isn't...that...a bit....contradictory? Warp speed Mr. Sulu! err, you think it's a conspiracy, or you think the other 8 scientists and the referees can think independently themsleves?

7th April 2009, 01:42 PM	#685
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	bill asked 'Are you saying that you personally believe that metal that is a flat silver colour when molten glows orange ? ' I just look at the evidence. It's not about what I believe. It's about what IS.

7th April 2009, 01:46 PM	#687
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	Originally Posted by Galileo err, you think it's a conspiracy, or you think the other 8 scientists and the referees can think independently themsleves? I have good evidence of a conspiracy Do you actually consider the other 'scientists' (are Kevin Ryan and Gregg Roberts scientists?) independent? If so, maybe you need a better dictionary.

7th April 2009, 01:47 PM	#688
ozeco41 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia Posts: 3,655	Originally Posted by bill smith With the best will in the world I would like to see the pic without the orange filter next time. Are you saying that you personally believe that metal that is a flat silver colour when molten glows orange ? No that is not what was being said Bill. The question is how do you make such a large poole of molten steel at that one location in part of a building which is seriously on fire? How do you get the steel to that point? Before melting - if so who fires all the thermite to do the meltinjh etc etc.... After melting if you have just cut tens of columns with it? How do you get it to one point? ------ Channels for it to flow - who put the channels in place after the aircraft had bulldozed debris through the space? ------ Manual - suicide workers in fireproof suits who carry all the little bits from each of the cut columns and walk across the fire lor to pour each bnit into one pool? Whichwever of those two you suggwest how do you keep it molten? AND where do you hide the tons of molten aluminium so it doesn't fall out the same place and give evidence for your opponents??? Other than that there could be something in your claims.

7th April 2009, 01:50 PM	#689
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	Originally Posted by bill smith You either believe it or you don't. When you are so evasive I think we all get the mssage loud and clear. I already gave my opinion that the molten material is more likely to be Aluminum. You don't believe it glows orange, I provided evidence that it does. What else do you want me to say? Are you always this resistant to the learning experience?

7th April 2009, 01:53 PM	#691
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	Originally Posted by JamesB Isn't Gourley a lawyer? He's now an independent scientist (wink)

7th April 2009, 02:00 PM	#692
Sunstealer Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,596	Originally Posted by bill smith Steel with a good dose of thermite or thermite with added sulphur (thermate) may well be molten at 1.000 degrees C. How do you figure that Billy. Every metallurgist, materials engineer and Chemist on the planet will be extremely interested to know. Here is a diagram to help you. Explain using the diagram how that's possible or STFU and stop derailing the thread.

7th April 2009, 02:08 PM	#695
Wolrab Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Beautiful Finger Lakes Posts: 1,708	I tried to read this thread from the start but couldn't stomach it anymore. On the Hindenburg episode of Mythbusters, they applied a thermite "paint" to their model and ignited it. Pretty GD cool, BTW. Why can't Jones paint some structural steel with any type of thermite he wants and actually demonstrate what he claims. Other than smoke and bright light, what the hell is going to happen to the steel? Will it warm up a little (somewhere back in the early pages 27 degrees C was mentioned, IIRC) or will it melt? My bet is on the slightly warm up. Where is Crazychainsaw when I need him!

7th April 2009, 02:09 PM	#696
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by alienentity I have good evidence of a conspiracy Do you actually consider the other 'scientists' (are Kevin Ryan and Gregg Roberts scientists?) independent? If so, maybe you need a better dictionary. Like in the independent 9/11 Commission?

7th April 2009, 02:12 PM	#697
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	bill, here's one more example of molten aluminum. Note the color of the splashes dribbling onto the ground. They don't look silvery to me? How 'bout you?

7th April 2009, 02:12 PM	#698
Julio Scholar Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Madrid Posts: 71	Originally Posted by alienentity I already gave my opinion that the molten material is more likely to be Aluminum. You don't believe it glows orange, I provided evidence that it does. What else do you want me to say? Are you always this resistant to the learning experience? This italian guy got response from NIST, saying that there was a Uninterruptible Power Supply on floor 81st. It could be related to the glowing fountain that NIST first said could be molten aluminium. 11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/02/ups-on-81st-floor-of-wtc2.html

7th April 2009, 02:17 PM	#699
GlennB Jellied eel and offal fancier Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arcadia Posts: 8,925	Originally Posted by bill smith What would I do with an irrelevent chart like that ???? You'd appreciate how ignorant you are of scientific facts.

7th April 2009, 02:18 PM	#700
Sunstealer Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,596	Originally Posted by bill smith What would I do with an irrelevent chart like that ???? Well now I know you are just trolling bearing in mind that is the most relevant chart anyone will ever come across with regards to steel. Onto ignore you go - I'd also encourage others to do the same and not feed the troll(s).

7th April 2009, 02:19 PM	#701
DGM #4 Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 14,308	Hey: Why hasn't the Jones' boys staged a demonstration on a mock-up column? I offered a while back to supply the column to any "truther" that wanted to "cut it with therm?te" but got no takers. I'll still do it (except you have to pay shipping, it's been a little slow) to any "truther" willing to try (you fail you pay for the stock and fabrication, I'll give you a quote). So how many orders should I get together?
	__________________ Join the team, Show us what your machine can do (or just contribute to a good cause)Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

7th April 2009, 02:25 PM	#702
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	Originally Posted by alienentity bill, here's one more example of molten aluminum. Note the color of the splashes dribbling onto the ground. They don't look silvery to me? How 'bout you? http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...bc1b59f9e0.jpg It's actually funny that you use the word 'silvery'. That is exactly how Shyam Sunder of NIST described the molten stream pouring out of WTC2...'' it was 'silvery' he said. You are evidently of the opposite opinion. I have messed about with molten alumnium before and it remained unfailingly silver. So me and Shyam are in lockstep and you are out of step with us ? lol
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	__________________ Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal'

7th April 2009, 02:27 PM	#703
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	Originally Posted by bill smith It's actually funny that you use the word 'silvery'. That is exactly how Shyam Sunder of NIST described the molten stream pouring out of WTC2...'' it was 'silvery' he said. You are evidently of the opposite opinion. I have messed about with molten alumnium before and it remained unfailingly silver. So me and Shyam are in lockstep and you are out of step with us ? lol Now look who's not answering the question....LOL Does it look silvery to you in that picture or not? Just your opinion, or are you afraid to look at the pic?

7th April 2009, 02:28 PM	#704
BCR Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Memphis Posts: 2,239	Originally Posted by bill smith Your philosophy places you outside the ranks of the tradtional 9/11 Truther who unfailingly believes that 9/11 WAS an inside job. You may however be a Truther of sorts by your own definition. No, you are confusing truther with "twoofer". Anyone starting with a conclusion already is not seeking "truth", but is attempting to support an intitial hypothesis (which is a** backwards).
	__________________ "Is your claim that the level of penetration is only governed by distance and not the material that is being penetrated?" - DGM Last edited by BCR; 7th April 2009 at 02:30 PM.

7th April 2009, 02:32 PM	#705
ElMondoHummus 0.25 short of being half-witted Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole Posts: 11,938	Originally Posted by Sunstealer Well now I know you are just trolling bearing in mind that is the most relevant chart anyone will ever come across with regards to steel. Onto ignore you go - I'd also encourage others to do the same and not feed the troll(s). LOL... I only have a bachelors, and even I recognize a phase diagram. I'm not terribly competent in using it , but at least I recognize it. 1130^oC is the lowest temperature you can have molten iron, correct? And that presumes 4% carbon content. Did I read that right? It's been since the (GASP) early 90's since I've read a phase diagram.
	__________________ must take this very carefully....booze is wise men's drink..... -pillory "... I'm quite willing to have everyone use my rejection of the 9/11 conspiracy theory as a basis for assessing my intelligence, judgment, and trustworthiness" -Prof. Ann Althouse

7th April 2009, 02:38 PM	#706
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	Originally Posted by 911files No, you are confusing truther with "twoofer". Anyone starting with a conclusion already is not seeking "truth", but is attempting to support an intitial hypothesis (which is a** backwards). 'twoofer' is just an unclever name made up by somebody with no wit or imagination to mislabel the true Stalwart 9/11 Truthers. I was relieved that the name was so clueless. With a little application they could have come up with something much better. Too late now though. You are stuck with 'twoofer' which is just fine by us.
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	__________________ Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal' Last edited by bill smith; 7th April 2009 at 02:38 PM. Reason: spelling

7th April 2009, 02:41 PM	#707
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	Originally Posted by alienentity Now look who's not answering the question....LOL Does it look silvery to you in that picture or not? Just your opinion, or are you afraid to look at the pic? I feel like I'm looking at it through rose-tinted glasses though. In this case Ido not believe what I am seeing. Or was it orange-tinted ?
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	__________________ Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal'

7th April 2009, 02:43 PM	#708
BCR Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Memphis Posts: 2,239	Originally Posted by bill smith 'twoofer' is just an unclever name made up by somebody with no wit or imagination to mislabel the true Stalwart 9/11 Truthers. I was relieved that the name was so clueless. With a little application they could have come up with something much better. Too late now though. You are stuck with 'twoofer' which is just fine by us. Call me whatever you want, but at least I present evidence, not paint chips.
	__________________ "Is your claim that the level of penetration is only governed by distance and not the material that is being penetrated?" - DGM

7th April 2009, 02:48 PM	#709
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	Originally Posted by alienentity Now look who's not answering the question....LOL Does it look silvery to you in that picture or not? Just your opinion, or are you afraid to look at the pic? Mind you the incidence of molten aluminium we are talking about took place in the open saylight. this much darker rpresentation may not be representative. Would molten aluminium in daylight glow orange too ? Or is that only in much darker places ?
bill smith Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,408	__________________ Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal'

7th April 2009, 02:53 PM	#710
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	In more distant shots of the stuff pouring out, which catch it at a lower level, it does appear less red, which would be consistant with its cooling back to a silvery appearance. Problem is that colors do not always remain stable in digital photography because cameras adjust to surroundings. Bear in mind, too, that lead can be heated to a red glow before it evaporates. I do not have the referrences at hand to back this up, but I believe it will glow at lower temperatures than aluminum. I am still betting that the stream is lead from the UPS. It was certainly in the right location.

7th April 2009, 02:57 PM	#711
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	Originally Posted by galileo dr. Jones made these discoveries a few years ago. Now they have been independently verified by a new team of scientists and confirmed by tough referees. galileo also confirms the findings as well. roflmao

7th April 2009, 02:58 PM	#712
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by 911files No, you are confusing truther with "twoofer". Anyone starting with a conclusion already is not seeking "truth", but is attempting to support an intitial hypothesis (which is a** backwards). Most 9/11 Truth seekers started out believing the official version, but have been swayed by the evidence. It is the JREF archie debunkers who start out with the conclusion.

7th April 2009, 02:58 PM	#713
A W Smith Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central Jersey Posts: 7,031	Originally Posted by bill smith Mind you the incidence of molten aluminium we are talking about took place in the open saylight. this much darker rpresentation may not be representative. Would molten aluminium in daylight glow orange too ? Or is that only in much darker places ? That part of the tower was in the shade. I need to ask, If this "active thermitic" substance was found in all those samples sent to jones 6 years after 9/11, samples I might add that were found in various locations as far away as the Brooklyn bridge. within a three inch thick layer of dust all over the southern tip of Manhattan. Why wasn't it ignited by all the fires around ground zero?
	__________________ 911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude.

7th April 2009, 03:03 PM	#714
BCR Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Memphis Posts: 2,239	Originally Posted by Galileo Most 9/11 Truth seekers started out believing the official version, but have been swayed by the evidence. It is the JREF archie debunkers who start out with the conclusion. No, they have been swayed by distortions of the evidence and disinformation because they don't take the time to critically analyze what they are fed by their gurus. The Dr. Jones paper is a fine example of that.
	__________________ "Is your claim that the level of penetration is only governed by distance and not the material that is being penetrated?" - DGM

7th April 2009, 03:04 PM	#715
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	Originally Posted by 911files No, they have been swayed by distortions of the evidence and disinformation because they don't take the time to critically analyze what they are fed by their gurus. The Dr. Jones paper is a fine example of that. Amen! TAM