Wolves of the Calla *with spoilers*

VicDaring · 21st November 2003, 10:11 AM

Just finished Dark Tower 5 the other day and I would assume there are other DT fans around here.

Some thoughts:

In large part, the book is a sequel to Salem's Lot...Salem's Lot 2: Hidden Highways (or something like that).

It seems like the story is leading to the "room at the top of the Tower" being occupied by Mr. King himself. That the universe they all live in is his creation, and he's sort of the God of their existence. I really think King has the hubris to go this way. That explains the overlapping of characters, and the pop culture references that are starting to appear with more frequency. If the whole universe exists in his mind, then whatever infuences his mind will find its way in there.

King has kind of tinkered with this idea already in a short story called Umney's Last Case, in Nightmares & Dreamscapes.

Also, I think the "something wrong" at the Tower will relate to King's accident with that minivan. Obviously, that could never have been the original intention, but I'm not so sure he would have had any idea how this was going to end if you'd asked him a few years ago. So basically, Roland and his ka-tet are on a quest to make sure their own story is finished. One of those "nature of existence" things.

As to story/plot points, I thought this one moved well and was a lot of fun. I recognized the way the Calla folken talked as a bit of a play on the Maine dialect King uses so much. And when the old guy told Eddie the story about the Wolf they killed, robot seemed like a good guess.

Not sure what I thought of the Susannah/Mia and the chap stuff. Susannah disappearing and all makes it a pretty interesting plot twist though.

The book "got" me very early, when Roland and the gang first met Callahan and the Calla people. When Overholser asked how they could be sure they were really Gunslingers, and Roland had Jake speak his lesson. "...He who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart." When these cats get into Gunslinger mode, they're bad.

Also liked Eddie takin' care of business with Andy.

And you just have to love the idea that Roland gets the town to defeat these monsters that have been terrorizing their town for generations by throwing plates at them.

Lookin' forward to DT6.

Andonyx · 8th January 2004, 09:53 AM

Okay Big spoilers!

First I agree wholeheartedly with your asessment. I remember thinking exactly that on page 600, when they discovered that the books about the train and all have authors and characters with names that correspond to characters in their world, that these people were eventually going to find out they were all characters in a book.

On the one hand it's amusing.

On the other it's a little diappointing and self-congratulatory. If indeed we find that this particular level of the Tower is one in which people are just the creations of the literary artists on "our" level of the tower, that's a tad cliche, and a tad less epic in scope than what I was shoping it would be.

But I also have another idea....

Somewhere after Eddie comes back from saving Tower in the bookstore, Roland uses the expression, "Stole the king's salt," and the book makes it clear that Eddie hears the word King with a capital 'K', as in Crimson King.

Something about that made me think, since name coincidences are such a point of focus in this book, that perhaps the Crimson King is in fact Stephen King....

(I'm waiting to hear about his Good / Evil twin, the Mauve Bachman.)

Other thoughts for discussion...

You mention something wrong at the tower being his automobile accident...

I'm not sure. I can see that maybe the tower and the breaking of the beams and collapse of the world, and thw world slowing down...I get the feeling that it's all a metaphor for Mr. King getting older. Time is different somehow because it's both short and long at the same time.

He can see his own eventual end on the horizon making it short but at the same time life has slowed down for him too; at least compared to when he was a young man writing Salem's Lot.

And I think that's what's going on here. He's bringing all his surviving favorite characters back together to say goodbye before the tower really does collapse and darkness consumes them all.

VicDaring · 8th January 2004, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Andonyx

You mention something wrong at the tower being his automobile accident...

I'm not sure. I can see that maybe the tower and the breaking of the beams and collapse of the world, and thw world slowing down...I get the feeling that it's all a metaphor for Mr. King getting older. Time is different somehow because it's both short and long at the same time...

Interesting thoughts.

What leads me to the idea that it's got something to do with the van accident is all the references to "19" and then later to "99." King was hit by that van in 1999.

Oh, and "Mauve Bachman."

Andonyx · 8th January 2004, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VicDaring

What leads me to the idea that it's got something to do with the van accident is all the references to "19" and then later to "99." King was hit by that van in 1999.

I did not know that...interesting.

ASRomatifoso · 9th January 2004, 06:11 AM

I liked the book a lot, especially Father Callahan's tale. However, I was disappointed when I got to the end and realized where it might be heading. The thought of this all being a literary invention and they find Stephen King in the Tower writing, making all this up, just makes me pretty sad. I want to believe that somewhere out there, in some alternate universe, gunslingers exist, forces of good are there pushing back the darkness.

To put this much time into reading the series, to invest so much feeling into and then come to this sort of end, which I only view as a kind of self-indulgent, "see how clever and literary I can be" sort of trick, really bugs me.

That being said, I will follow it through and finish the series, which I have enjoyed very much.

Brian · 9th January 2004, 07:09 AM

I hope he doesn't go with the "characters realize they are in books" angle. Heinlein covered that 20 years ago.

Andonyx · 9th January 2004, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ASRomatifoso
I liked the book a lot, especially Father Callahan's tale. However, I was disappointed when I got to the end and realized where it might be heading. The thought of this all being a literary invention and they find Stephen King in the Tower writing, making all this up, just makes me pretty sad. I want to believe that somewhere out there, in some alternate universe, gunslingers exist, forces of good are there pushing back the darkness.

To put this much time into reading the series, to invest so much feeling into and then come to this sort of end, which I only view as a kind of self-indulgent, "see how clever and literary I can be" sort of trick, really bugs me.

That being said, I will follow it through and finish the series, which I have enjoyed very much.

I agree 100% that's why I thought it was cliche and self-congratulatory....

BUT!!!

I have a link here to the jacket summary for book six. It contains some minor spoilers for a book that's not even out yet so only proceed at your OWN RISK!

http://www.liljas-library.com/dtVI.html

If you don't want to read it, I'll just say, it looks like it might not be about that after all, and that perhaps this whole link to real life Steven King is only a minor part of the story.

21st November 2003, 10:11 AM	#1
VicDaring Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 588	Wolves of the Calla with spoilers Just finished Dark Tower 5 the other day and I would assume there are other DT fans around here. Some thoughts: In large part, the book is a sequel to Salem's Lot...Salem's Lot 2: Hidden Highways (or something like that). It seems like the story is leading to the "room at the top of the Tower" being occupied by Mr. King himself. That the universe they all live in is his creation, and he's sort of the God of their existence. I really think King has the hubris to go this way. That explains the overlapping of characters, and the pop culture references that are starting to appear with more frequency. If the whole universe exists in his mind, then whatever infuences his mind will find its way in there. King has kind of tinkered with this idea already in a short story called Umney's Last Case, in Nightmares & Dreamscapes. Also, I think the "something wrong" at the Tower will relate to King's accident with that minivan. Obviously, that could never have been the original intention, but I'm not so sure he would have had any idea how this was going to end if you'd asked him a few years ago. So basically, Roland and his ka-tet are on a quest to make sure their own story is finished. One of those "nature of existence" things. As to story/plot points, I thought this one moved well and was a lot of fun. I recognized the way the Calla folken talked as a bit of a play on the Maine dialect King uses so much. And when the old guy told Eddie the story about the Wolf they killed, robot seemed like a good guess. Not sure what I thought of the Susannah/Mia and the chap stuff. Susannah disappearing and all makes it a pretty interesting plot twist though. The book "got" me very early, when Roland and the gang first met Callahan and the Calla people. When Overholser asked how they could be sure they were really Gunslingers, and Roland had Jake speak his lesson. "...He who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart." When these cats get into Gunslinger mode, they're bad. Also liked Eddie takin' care of business with Andy. And you just have to love the idea that Roland gets the town to defeat these monsters that have been terrorizing their town for generations by throwing plates at them. Lookin' forward to DT6.
VicDaring Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 588	__________________ The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

8th January 2004, 09:53 AM	#2
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	Okay Big spoilers! First I agree wholeheartedly with your asessment. I remember thinking exactly that on page 600, when they discovered that the books about the train and all have authors and characters with names that correspond to characters in their world, that these people were eventually going to find out they were all characters in a book. On the one hand it's amusing. On the other it's a little diappointing and self-congratulatory. If indeed we find that this particular level of the Tower is one in which people are just the creations of the literary artists on "our" level of the tower, that's a tad cliche, and a tad less epic in scope than what I was shoping it would be. But I also have another idea.... Somewhere after Eddie comes back from saving Tower in the bookstore, Roland uses the expression, "Stole the king's salt," and the book makes it clear that Eddie hears the word King with a capital 'K', as in Crimson King. Something about that made me think, since name coincidences are such a point of focus in this book, that perhaps the Crimson King is in fact Stephen King.... (I'm waiting to hear about his Good / Evil twin, the Mauve Bachman.) Other thoughts for discussion... You mention something wrong at the tower being his automobile accident... I'm not sure. I can see that maybe the tower and the breaking of the beams and collapse of the world, and thw world slowing down...I get the feeling that it's all a metaphor for Mr. King getting older. Time is different somehow because it's both short and long at the same time. He can see his own eventual end on the horizon making it short but at the same time life has slowed down for him too; at least compared to when he was a young man writing Salem's Lot. And I think that's what's going on here. He's bringing all his surviving favorite characters back together to say goodbye before the tower really does collapse and darkness consumes them all.
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	__________________ Andonyx www.andonyx.com Shy Gypsy Slyly Shyly Tryst By My Crypt.

8th January 2004, 10:21 AM	#3
VicDaring Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 588	Quote: Originally posted by Andonyx You mention something wrong at the tower being his automobile accident... I'm not sure. I can see that maybe the tower and the breaking of the beams and collapse of the world, and thw world slowing down...I get the feeling that it's all a metaphor for Mr. King getting older. Time is different somehow because it's both short and long at the same time... Interesting thoughts. What leads me to the idea that it's got something to do with the van accident is all the references to "19" and then later to "99." King was hit by that van in 1999. Oh, and "Mauve Bachman."
VicDaring Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 588	__________________ The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

8th January 2004, 11:07 AM	#4
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	Quote: Originally posted by VicDaring What leads me to the idea that it's got something to do with the van accident is all the references to "19" and then later to "99." King was hit by that van in 1999. I did not know that...interesting.
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	__________________ Andonyx www.andonyx.com Shy Gypsy Slyly Shyly Tryst By My Crypt.

9th January 2004, 06:11 AM	#5
ASRomatifoso Thinker Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 186	I liked the book a lot, especially Father Callahan's tale. However, I was disappointed when I got to the end and realized where it might be heading. The thought of this all being a literary invention and they find Stephen King in the Tower writing, making all this up, just makes me pretty sad. I want to believe that somewhere out there, in some alternate universe, gunslingers exist, forces of good are there pushing back the darkness. To put this much time into reading the series, to invest so much feeling into and then come to this sort of end, which I only view as a kind of self-indulgent, "see how clever and literary I can be" sort of trick, really bugs me. That being said, I will follow it through and finish the series, which I have enjoyed very much.
ASRomatifoso Thinker Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 186

9th January 2004, 07:09 AM	#6
Brian Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,780	I hope he doesn't go with the "characters realize they are in books" angle. Heinlein covered that 20 years ago.
Brian Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,780	__________________ O' beautiful, for spacious skies But now those skies are threatening They're beating plowshares into swords For this tired old man that we elected king Armchair warriors often fail And we've been poisoned by these fairy tales The lawyers clean up all details Since daddy had to lie -Don Henley

9th January 2004, 08:35 AM	#7
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	Quote: Originally posted by ASRomatifoso I liked the book a lot, especially Father Callahan's tale. However, I was disappointed when I got to the end and realized where it might be heading. The thought of this all being a literary invention and they find Stephen King in the Tower writing, making all this up, just makes me pretty sad. I want to believe that somewhere out there, in some alternate universe, gunslingers exist, forces of good are there pushing back the darkness. To put this much time into reading the series, to invest so much feeling into and then come to this sort of end, which I only view as a kind of self-indulgent, "see how clever and literary I can be" sort of trick, really bugs me. That being said, I will follow it through and finish the series, which I have enjoyed very much. I agree 100% that's why I thought it was cliche and self-congratulatory.... BUT!!! I have a link here to the jacket summary for book six. It contains some minor spoilers for a book that's not even out yet so only proceed at your OWN RISK! http://www.liljas-library.com/dtVI.html If you don't want to read it, I'll just say, it looks like it might not be about that after all, and that perhaps this whole link to real life Steven King is only a minor part of the story.
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	__________________ Andonyx www.andonyx.com Shy Gypsy Slyly Shyly Tryst By My Crypt.