Flight 93 Memorial news.

Alareth · 7th May 2009, 10:55 AM

Unable to come to an agreement on the purchase of land needed to complete the memorial in time for the 10th anniversary, the government has announced they will condemn and sieze the property.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519277,00.html

Now, any bets on how quickly this action will be jumped on by the usual suspects as a nefarious attempt at a further coverup?

fitzgibbon · 7th May 2009, 11:04 AM

In 5...4...3....2....1....

Dog Town · 7th May 2009, 11:23 AM

I am all for a memorial. This however seems a bit much!

Quote:

The seven property owners own about 500 acres still needed for what will ultimately be a $58 million, 2,200-acre permanent memorial and national park at the crash site near Shanksville, about 60 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.

JoeyDonuts · 7th May 2009, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Dog Town

I am all for a memorial. This however seems a bit much!

I have to agree. I wouldn't go for a grandiose ridiculous monument like this until I knew for certain that the widows and children of the survivors had their medical, housing, and college for the kids paid for. And even then, it's a little nutty.

A simple granite slab, who - what -where - may we always remember, etc.

No sense tearing up the field for a UA93 Museum. That's a little ridiculous. I've always liked the smaller monuments anyway, with exception to the WWII Memorial. In that case, the scale is justified. Not here.

Make it small, quiet, contemplative. And unintrusive. I'm pretty sure my idea would take less than 250,000, too.

CptColumbo · 7th May 2009, 02:51 PM

I was reading that and wondering how much of the land is for the memorial and how much is for access to it?

There is a Memorial to Buddy Holly and the others who died on the plane in the middle of the field where it crashed in Clear Lake, but you have to walk across someone's property to get there. Last two times I visited, deputies were waiting at my car when I got back or walked out to talk to me. They didn't arrest me or give me a ticket, but the owner had called. They had planned on putting a bigger one there, but placed it at the Surf Ball Room (where they had played earlier that night) instead, so people could visit it.

Bobert · 7th May 2009, 03:16 PM

I was disgusted to see how the truther scum disgraced the memory of the victims of 9-11 by making rude and sick comments about the pentagon memorial.
These people are sick

Dog Town · 7th May 2009, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by CptColumbo

I was reading that and wondering how much of the land is for the memorial and how much is for access to it?
...

Some one check me on this, but wasn't there a paved road right by the site?
58 million seems a bit steep, in rural Penn. Hmmm...

DGM · 7th May 2009, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Dog Town

Some one check me on this, but wasn't there a paved road right by the site?
58 million seems a bit steep, in rural Penn. Hmmm...

There is. I think (besides the locals wanting much more for the land) the biggest issue is the land is polluted from years of mining. I remember reading in a PA paper (I'll try to find the article if I get time) that the clean-up costs (not related to 9/11) were huge.

Dog Town · 7th May 2009, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by DGM

(besides the locals wanting much more for the land) .

That seems to have worked out poorly for them.

Quote:

the biggest issue is the land is polluted from years of mining. I remember reading in a PA paper (I'll try to find the article if I get time) that the clean-up costs (not related to 9/11) were huge

Hadn't thought of that.

Brainster · 7th May 2009, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

I have to agree. I wouldn't go for a grandiose ridiculous monument like this until I knew for certain that the widows and children of the survivors had their medical, housing, and college for the kids paid for.

Err, the widows of the survivors?

Dog Town · 7th May 2009, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Err, the widows of the survivors?

I noticed that, almost stundied it for a giggle.

Minadin · 7th May 2009, 04:14 PM

I think that something a little bit more subtle is called for than the current plan.

Shame on the locals for trying to cash in on a tragedy, and shame on the government forthis rather sheisty move to dispossess them. This is something people should be able to come together about for the greater purpose of honoring the victims.

Dog Town · 7th May 2009, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Minadin

I think that something a little bit more subtle is called for than the current plan.

Shame on the locals for trying to cash in on a tragedy, and shame on the government forthis rather sheisty move to dispossess them...

Agreed. I mean, a few acres maybe, but a couple thousand?

njslim · 7th May 2009, 05:45 PM

Truther scum at ABOVE TOP SECRET complaining why should we spend money for
a place where plane did not crash.....

Truthers are really disgusting low life

applecorped · 7th May 2009, 05:51 PM

Just wait for the first truther who tries to protest there or deface it any way. This'll be a magnet for loons.

JoeyDonuts · 7th May 2009, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Err, the widows of the survivors?

Dear god. I can't believe that made it out of my brain.

Must have a word with the Frontal Cortex Quality Assurance Department.

RedIbis · 8th May 2009, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by applecorped

Just wait for the first truther who tries to protest there or deface it any way. This'll be a magnet for loons.

Doubtful. This will get hung up in the courts and nothing will happen with the site for decades, if at all. Kind of like the WTC site.

Unsecured Coins · 8th May 2009, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

Doubtful. This will get hung up in the courts and nothing will happen with the site for decades, if at all. Kind of like the WTC site.

I had no idea 7 years and some odd months made a decade.

RedIbis · 8th May 2009, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Unsecured Coins

I had no idea 7 years and some odd months made a decade.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...53F77N20090416

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The rebuilding of New York's World Trade Center site may take up to three decades to complete because the demand for office space has shrunk with Wall Street's falling fortunes.

Unsecured Coins · 8th May 2009, 08:08 AM

may take up to

also, I fail to see what that has to do anything being hung up in court.

LightinDarkness · 8th May 2009, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

Doubtful. This will get hung up in the courts and nothing will happen with the site for decades, if at all. Kind of like the WTC site.

This won't take long at all. The property owners can of course take anyone to court, but this is a clear case where eminent domain authority can be used. All the government has to demonstrate is that the land is for a public purpose (or even for the public good, as in Kelo v. New London) and show that they made reasonable attempts to negotiate with land owners.

The court standard for eminent domain is "compelling government interest", which a monument for a national tragedy would clearly meet. Its a classic case for eminent domain where property holders strategically hold out to try to get way more money for their land than it is really worth.

MrRandomGuy · 8th May 2009, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by LightinDarkness

This won't take long at all. The property owners can of course take anyone to court, but this is a clear case where eminent domain authority can be used. All the government has to demonstrate is that the land is for a public purpose (or even for the public good, as in Kelo v. New London) and show that they made reasonable attempts to negotiate with land owners.

The court standard for eminent domain is "compelling government interest", which a monument for a national tragedy would clearly meet. Its a classic case for eminent domain where property holders strategically hold out to try to get way more money for their land than it is really worth.

Yeah, that's one way the government will get their way in the end.

I think eminent domain is bullsnot.

7th May 2009, 10:55 AM	#1
Alareth Expert Expertologist Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 6,680	Flight 93 Memorial news. Unable to come to an agreement on the purchase of land needed to complete the memorial in time for the 10th anniversary, the government has announced they will condemn and sieze the property. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519277,00.html Now, any bets on how quickly this action will be jumped on by the usual suspects as a nefarious attempt at a further coverup?
	Last edited by Alareth; 7th May 2009 at 10:56 AM.

7th May 2009, 11:23 AM	#3
Dog Town Space for Rent Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sunny blue sky, cold water. Posts: 4,462	I am all for a memorial. This however seems a bit much! Quote: The seven property owners own about 500 acres still needed for what will ultimately be a $58 million, 2,200-acre permanent memorial and national park at the crash site near Shanksville, about 60 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.
	__________________ "Yes. I often wonder why it is that the nutjobs, who clearly think they're among a tiny handful of people who "get it", are wholly incapable of communicating effectively enough so that other people can understand them and "get it", too." Gee Mack, JREF 5/15/09

7th May 2009, 11:44 AM	#4
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	Originally Posted by Dog Town I am all for a memorial. This however seems a bit much! I have to agree. I wouldn't go for a grandiose ridiculous monument like this until I knew for certain that the widows and children of the survivors had their medical, housing, and college for the kids paid for. And even then, it's a little nutty. A simple granite slab, who - what -where - may we always remember, etc. No sense tearing up the field for a UA93 Museum. That's a little ridiculous. I've always liked the smaller monuments anyway, with exception to the WWII Memorial. In that case, the scale is justified. Not here. Make it small, quiet, contemplative. And unintrusive. I'm pretty sure my idea would take less than 250,000, too.
	__________________ _{EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!}

7th May 2009, 02:51 PM	#5
CptColumbo Just One More Question Join Date: May 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 9,130	I was reading that and wondering how much of the land is for the memorial and how much is for access to it? There is a Memorial to Buddy Holly and the others who died on the plane in the middle of the field where it crashed in Clear Lake, but you have to walk across someone's property to get there. Last two times I visited, deputies were waiting at my car when I got back or walked out to talk to me. They didn't arrest me or give me a ticket, but the owner had called. They had planned on putting a bigger one there, but placed it at the Surf Ball Room (where they had played earlier that night) instead, so people could visit it.
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7th May 2009, 03:16 PM	#6
Bobert Government Loyalist Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kennesaw GA Posts: 4,146	I was disgusted to see how the truther scum disgraced the memory of the victims of 9-11 by making rude and sick comments about the pentagon memorial. These people are sick
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7th May 2009, 11:04 AM	#2
fitzgibbon Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Just west of the centre of the universe Posts: 2,547	In 5...4...3....2....1....

7th May 2009, 03:35 PM	#7
Dog Town Space for Rent Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sunny blue sky, cold water. Posts: 4,462	Originally Posted by CptColumbo I was reading that and wondering how much of the land is for the memorial and how much is for access to it? ... Some one check me on this, but wasn't there a paved road right by the site? 58 million seems a bit steep, in rural Penn. Hmmm...
	__________________ "Yes. I often wonder why it is that the nutjobs, who clearly think they're among a tiny handful of people who "get it", are wholly incapable of communicating effectively enough so that other people can understand them and "get it", too." Gee Mack, JREF 5/15/09

7th May 2009, 03:51 PM	#8
DGM #4 Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 14,344	Originally Posted by Dog Town Some one check me on this, but wasn't there a paved road right by the site? 58 million seems a bit steep, in rural Penn. Hmmm... There is. I think (besides the locals wanting much more for the land) the biggest issue is the land is polluted from years of mining. I remember reading in a PA paper (I'll try to find the article if I get time) that the clean-up costs (not related to 9/11) were huge.
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7th May 2009, 03:57 PM	#9
Dog Town Space for Rent Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sunny blue sky, cold water. Posts: 4,462	Originally Posted by DGM (besides the locals wanting much more for the land) . That seems to have worked out poorly for them. Quote: the biggest issue is the land is polluted from years of mining. I remember reading in a PA paper (I'll try to find the article if I get time) that the clean-up costs (not related to 9/11) were huge Hadn't thought of that.
	__________________ "Yes. I often wonder why it is that the nutjobs, who clearly think they're among a tiny handful of people who "get it", are wholly incapable of communicating effectively enough so that other people can understand them and "get it", too." Gee Mack, JREF 5/15/09

7th May 2009, 04:01 PM	#10
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,429	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts I have to agree. I wouldn't go for a grandiose ridiculous monument like this until I knew for certain that the widows and children of the survivors had their medical, housing, and college for the kids paid for. Err, the widows of the survivors?
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7th May 2009, 04:12 PM	#11
Dog Town Space for Rent Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sunny blue sky, cold water. Posts: 4,462	Originally Posted by Brainster Err, the widows of the survivors? I noticed that, almost stundied it for a giggle.
	__________________ "Yes. I often wonder why it is that the nutjobs, who clearly think they're among a tiny handful of people who "get it", are wholly incapable of communicating effectively enough so that other people can understand them and "get it", too." Gee Mack, JREF 5/15/09

7th May 2009, 04:14 PM	#12
Minadin Hiding his Head in the Sane Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 2,473	I think that something a little bit more subtle is called for than the current plan. Shame on the locals for trying to cash in on a tragedy, and shame on the government forthis rather sheisty move to dispossess them. This is something people should be able to come together about for the greater purpose of honoring the victims.
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7th May 2009, 04:24 PM	#13
Dog Town Space for Rent Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sunny blue sky, cold water. Posts: 4,462	Originally Posted by Minadin I think that something a little bit more subtle is called for than the current plan. Shame on the locals for trying to cash in on a tragedy, and shame on the government forthis rather sheisty move to dispossess them... Agreed. I mean, a few acres maybe, but a couple thousand?
	__________________ "Yes. I often wonder why it is that the nutjobs, who clearly think they're among a tiny handful of people who "get it", are wholly incapable of communicating effectively enough so that other people can understand them and "get it", too." Gee Mack, JREF 5/15/09

7th May 2009, 05:45 PM	#14
njslim Muse Join Date: May 2006 Location: Jooisy - You got a problem with that? Posts: 967	Truther scum at ABOVE TOP SECRET complaining why should we spend money for a place where plane did not crash..... Truthers are really disgusting low life

7th May 2009, 05:51 PM	#15
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,662	Just wait for the first truther who tries to protest there or deface it any way. This'll be a magnet for loons.
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7th May 2009, 08:11 PM	#16
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	Originally Posted by Brainster Err, the widows of the survivors? Dear god. I can't believe that made it out of my brain. Must have a word with the Frontal Cortex Quality Assurance Department.
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8th May 2009, 07:52 AM	#17
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,829	Originally Posted by applecorped Just wait for the first truther who tries to protest there or deface it any way. This'll be a magnet for loons. Doubtful. This will get hung up in the courts and nothing will happen with the site for decades, if at all. Kind of like the WTC site.
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8th May 2009, 08:01 AM	#18
Unsecured Coins Hoku-maniac Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: in your macaronis. warming my feets Posts: 5,741	Originally Posted by RedIbis Doubtful. This will get hung up in the courts and nothing will happen with the site for decades, if at all. Kind of like the WTC site. I had no idea 7 years and some odd months made a decade.
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8th May 2009, 08:04 AM	#19
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,829	Originally Posted by Unsecured Coins I had no idea 7 years and some odd months made a decade. http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...53F77N20090416 NEW YORK (Reuters) - The rebuilding of New York's World Trade Center site may take up to three decades to complete because the demand for office space has shrunk with Wall Street's falling fortunes.
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8th May 2009, 08:08 AM	#20
Unsecured Coins Hoku-maniac Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: in your macaronis. warming my feets Posts: 5,741	may take up to also, I fail to see what that has to do anything being hung up in court.
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8th May 2009, 08:50 AM	#21
LightinDarkness Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,554	Originally Posted by RedIbis Doubtful. This will get hung up in the courts and nothing will happen with the site for decades, if at all. Kind of like the WTC site. This won't take long at all. The property owners can of course take anyone to court, but this is a clear case where eminent domain authority can be used. All the government has to demonstrate is that the land is for a public purpose (or even for the public good, as in Kelo v. New London) and show that they made reasonable attempts to negotiate with land owners. The court standard for eminent domain is "compelling government interest", which a monument for a national tragedy would clearly meet. Its a classic case for eminent domain where property holders strategically hold out to try to get way more money for their land than it is really worth.

8th May 2009, 09:19 AM	#22
MrRandomGuy New Blood Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 18	Originally Posted by LightinDarkness This won't take long at all. The property owners can of course take anyone to court, but this is a clear case where eminent domain authority can be used. All the government has to demonstrate is that the land is for a public purpose (or even for the public good, as in Kelo v. New London) and show that they made reasonable attempts to negotiate with land owners. The court standard for eminent domain is "compelling government interest", which a monument for a national tragedy would clearly meet. Its a classic case for eminent domain where property holders strategically hold out to try to get way more money for their land than it is really worth. Yeah, that's one way the government will get their way in the end. I think eminent domain is bullsnot.
MrRandomGuy New Blood Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 18