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Darth Rotor · 18th May 2009, 04:18 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk:80/world/v...istan-military

Hilarious.

The UK rag "The Guardian" has their ace reporters putting together a little film clip on the Afghan Army. It paints a certain picture.

But this isn't news. Nor is it new. ARVN had its problems with discipline, a generation or so ago.

The moral discipline of the Taliban, or its alleged moral discipline, is an interesting contrast to what is depicted here.

Also on display here, is a slightly less than culturally sensitive NCO on the American side.

DR

Ziggurat · 18th May 2009, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

The moral discipline of the Taliban, or its alleged moral discipline, is an interesting contrast to what is depicted here.

What do you mean by "moral discipline", and how does it differ from just discipline?

Darth Rotor · 18th May 2009, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

What do you mean by "moral discipline", and how does it differ from just discipline?

One of the things the Taliban brought with them was, in comparison to their other peer groups in Afghanistan, was a somewhat greater moral rectitude, or even ascetism.

Put another way, Taliban weren't as prone to be stoned on patrol. Again, it's a matter of relative moral superiority, which is how the Taliban got some of their local support back in the 80's-90's in the first place.

That with this moral rectitude came a rather blatant case of male chauvinism hardly bothered the people who chose order over chaos, or at least not enough to matter.

It's part of their appeal, socially and politically.

DR

Region Rat · 18th May 2009, 04:37 PM

I've used it as a study tool, and it really, ummm, it helped, mmmm,

What?

Darth Rotor · 18th May 2009, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Region Rat

I've used it as a study tool, and it really, ummm, it helped, mmmm,

What?

Can you remember what you were studying?

Toke · 18th May 2009, 04:40 PM

Lost patience with the link after 1,5 min.

Guess the Afgan army have hired the wrong afganis and/or failed to provide motivation.

Ziggurat · 18th May 2009, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

One of the things the Taliban brought with them was, in comparison to their other peer groups in Afghanistan, was a somewhat greater moral rectitude, or even ascetism.

I doubt that. They just picked vices which comported with their religious beliefs. I remember seeing mention once about how the Taliban had to explicitly forbid their troops from having prepubescent boys alone in their houses. Take a guess as to the reason, and then consider the fact that if they made a rule about it, it was probably a big problem.

Quote:

Put another way, Taliban weren't as prone to be stoned on patrol.

That I'm willing to believe.

Darth Rotor · 18th May 2009, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

I doubt that. They just picked vices which comported with their religious beliefs. I remember seeing mention once about how the Taliban had to explicitly forbid their troops from having prepubescent boys alone in their houses. Take a guess as to the reason, and then consider the fact that if they made a rule about it, it was probably a big problem.

I am fully aware of the reason. Some of the warlords against whom the Taliban were fighting did not so rule, nor even attempt to instill such a discipline.

As I said, it is a relatively superior moral position. In the local context, that matters.

To you and me? Not so much, based on our own cultural assumptions.

Quote:

That I'm willing to believe.

Can I get an "Amen" from Brother Zig?

Ziggurat · 18th May 2009, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Can I get an "Amen" from Brother Zig?

Amen!

Region Rat · 18th May 2009, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Can you remember what you were studying?

The inside of my eyelids, at the end.

Texas · 18th May 2009, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

http://www.guardian.co.uk:80/world/v...istan-military

Hilarious.

The UK rag "The Guardian" has their ace reporters putting together a little film clip on the Afghan Army. It paints a certain picture.

But this isn't news. Nor is it new. ARVN had its problems with discipline, a generation or so ago.

The moral discipline of the Taliban, or its alleged moral discipline, is an interesting contrast to what is depicted here.

Also on display here, is a slightly less than culturally sensitive NCO on the American side.

DR

Cheech and Chong in the army now.

Puppycow · 18th May 2009, 10:29 PM

Well if the army thing doesn't work out for them, maybe they can become waiters for P.F. Changs.

Axiom_Blade · 18th May 2009, 10:49 PM

Man, the US military is such a buzzkill.

Seriously, maybe they should start rewarding them with hashish? Somebody's gotta start thinking outside the box here. It doesn't look like their motivational speeches are too effective.

18th May 2009, 04:18 PM	#1
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,379	Hashish as a readiness tool http://www.guardian.co.uk:80/world/v...istan-military Hilarious. The UK rag "The Guardian" has their ace reporters putting together a little film clip on the Afghan Army. It paints a certain picture. But this isn't news. Nor is it new. ARVN had its problems with discipline, a generation or so ago. The moral discipline of the Taliban, or its alleged moral discipline, is an interesting contrast to what is depicted here. Also on display here, is a slightly less than culturally sensitive NCO on the American side. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

18th May 2009, 04:33 PM	#2
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,285	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor The moral discipline of the Taliban, or its alleged moral discipline, is an interesting contrast to what is depicted here. What do you mean by "moral discipline", and how does it differ from just discipline?
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

18th May 2009, 04:36 PM	#3
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,379	Originally Posted by Ziggurat What do you mean by "moral discipline", and how does it differ from just discipline? One of the things the Taliban brought with them was, in comparison to their other peer groups in Afghanistan, was a somewhat greater moral rectitude, or even ascetism. Put another way, Taliban weren't as prone to be stoned on patrol. Again, it's a matter of relative moral superiority, which is how the Taliban got some of their local support back in the 80's-90's in the first place. That with this moral rectitude came a rather blatant case of male chauvinism hardly bothered the people who chose order over chaos, or at least not enough to matter. It's part of their appeal, socially and politically. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

18th May 2009, 04:37 PM	#4
Region Rat Stinky Cheese Eater Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sprung from Da Calumet Region Posts: 2,827	I've used it as a study tool, and it really, ummm, it helped, mmmm, What?
	__________________ The Optimist sees the glass as half full. The Pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The Engineer sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be.

18th May 2009, 04:38 PM	#5
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,379	Originally Posted by Region Rat I've used it as a study tool, and it really, ummm, it helped, mmmm, What? Can you remember what you were studying?
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

18th May 2009, 04:40 PM	#6
Toke Godless Socialist Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 7,619	Lost patience with the link after 1,5 min. Guess the Afgan army have hired the wrong afganis and/or failed to provide motivation.
	__________________ From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. -K. Marx.

18th May 2009, 04:41 PM	#7
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,285	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor One of the things the Taliban brought with them was, in comparison to their other peer groups in Afghanistan, was a somewhat greater moral rectitude, or even ascetism. I doubt that. They just picked vices which comported with their religious beliefs. I remember seeing mention once about how the Taliban had to explicitly forbid their troops from having prepubescent boys alone in their houses. Take a guess as to the reason, and then consider the fact that if they made a rule about it, it was probably a big problem. Quote: Put another way, Taliban weren't as prone to be stoned on patrol. That I'm willing to believe.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

18th May 2009, 04:44 PM	#8
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,379	Originally Posted by Ziggurat I doubt that. They just picked vices which comported with their religious beliefs. I remember seeing mention once about how the Taliban had to explicitly forbid their troops from having prepubescent boys alone in their houses. Take a guess as to the reason, and then consider the fact that if they made a rule about it, it was probably a big problem. I am fully aware of the reason. Some of the warlords against whom the Taliban were fighting did not so rule, nor even attempt to instill such a discipline. As I said, it is a relatively superior moral position. In the local context, that matters. To you and me? Not so much, based on our own cultural assumptions. Quote: That I'm willing to believe. Can I get an "Amen" from Brother Zig?
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

18th May 2009, 04:46 PM	#9
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,285	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Can I get an "Amen" from Brother Zig? Amen!
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

18th May 2009, 05:27 PM	#10
Region Rat Stinky Cheese Eater Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sprung from Da Calumet Region Posts: 2,827	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Can you remember what you were studying? The inside of my eyelids, at the end.
	__________________ The Optimist sees the glass as half full. The Pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The Engineer sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be.

18th May 2009, 09:21 PM	#11
Texas Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,847	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor http://www.guardian.co.uk:80/world/v...istan-military Hilarious. The UK rag "The Guardian" has their ace reporters putting together a little film clip on the Afghan Army. It paints a certain picture. But this isn't news. Nor is it new. ARVN had its problems with discipline, a generation or so ago. The moral discipline of the Taliban, or its alleged moral discipline, is an interesting contrast to what is depicted here. Also on display here, is a slightly less than culturally sensitive NCO on the American side. DR Cheech and Chong in the army now.
Texas Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,847

18th May 2009, 10:29 PM	#12
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 16,031	Well if the army thing doesn't work out for them, maybe they can become waiters for P.F. Changs.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

18th May 2009, 10:49 PM	#13
Axiom_Blade Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,761	Man, the US military is such a buzzkill. Seriously, maybe they should start rewarding them with hashish? Somebody's gotta start thinking outside the box here. It doesn't look like their motivational speeches are too effective.