Woman trampled over a crappy DVD player

HarryKeogh · 29th November 2003, 06:18 PM

first off, i'd rather pay full price then get up at 3 AM to secure my place in line to save a few bucks

secondly, i hope that i'm never that pathetic a human being to literally walk over someone to grab a piece of electronic hardware on sale.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104373,00.html

i found this part of the story particularly interesting...

Ellzey said Wal-Mart officials called later Friday to ask about her sister, and the store apologized and offered to put a DVD player on hold for her.

Wal-Mart Stores spokeswoman Karen Burk said she had never heard of a such a melee during a sale.

''We are very disappointed this happened,'' Burk said. ''We want her to come back as a shopper.''

hmmm, attention Wal-Mart executives, maybe purely from a PR point of view you may want to just "give" her a dvd player instead of putting one aside for her later to purchase after she fully regains conciousness. call me crazy but it might be a nice gesture.

rikzilla · 29th November 2003, 06:26 PM

Behold, I bid you great tidings of comfort and joy! For this day in Bethlehem, a child is born...

The Prince of Peace, Lord of Lords, Savior of the world!

...now get out there and celebrate by beating the crap outta some stranger for a chance at some cheap consumer electronics!

...Ah,...nothing says Christmas like a WalMart stampede!

-z

Frank Newgent · 29th November 2003, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rikzilla

...Ah,...nothing says Christmas like a WalMart stampede!

-z

Quote:

Paramedics called to the store found VanLester unconscious on top of a DVD player, surrounded by shoppers seemingly oblivious to her, said Mark O'Keefe, a spokesman for EVAC Ambulance.

Sounds like that one may be damaged. If I were paying the full $29 for a DVD I'd check it first.

http://www.nbc4.com/news/2669560/detail.html

Quote:

"The comic relief to tell you the truth. We just want the adventure of it," said one shopper. "Have you been in there? Down by the TV's they're crazy."

I retail in gem, mineral and jewelry shows. Doing a lot of them these days and drawing on experience I can see that times are unusual. Believe that it's safe to generalize that the average person is extremely prudent and concerned about their employment. These folks are clearly spending fewer dollars unless it is with a mega-retailer like Walmart selling popular items at or below cost to draw in the crowds. Overall things would be way down compared to past years but for some of the strangest high end items becoming suddenly popular. Not hard to see who has the money these days...

zakur · 30th November 2003, 06:14 AM

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showt...threadid=31431

Evolver · 30th November 2003, 07:04 AM

I read in today's paper that Wal-Mart has offered to put another DVD on hold for her.

How generous of them.

It's the least they can do.

Absolutely the least.

Ed · 30th November 2003, 07:30 AM

Dunno. I bought a couple of Wal-Mart cheapie DVD players at like $45 a copy. Seems like a lot of effort and danger to save $15. I mean if $15 is that important, why would one buy a DVD player in the first place? And rent movies, BTW.

a_unique_person · 30th November 2003, 01:44 PM

The lousy government in Victoria has put a stop to these sales after a shopper lost a part of her finger. Can't they do anything right?

Luciana · 30th November 2003, 02:30 PM

For some people, it's either a DVD player at sale price or no DVD at all. If I were broke and wanted a DVD player for my family, and couldn't pay the full price, I'd gladly spend the night at the store's door, and I'd be very happy to bring it home. There's nothing indignified about it.

Sure, Wal Mart must be more careful next time... there are better ways of doing it. The way they did it, they enticed a mob behavior that proved dangerous. But sales shouldn't be discouraged because of that.

Monketey Ghost · 30th November 2003, 03:31 PM

That was entirely too rational, Luciana. Jeez.

The Don · 1st December 2003, 01:04 AM

But she was only saving $15

Zep · 1st December 2003, 01:08 AM

OK, so she may have collapsed over the DVD player, but the scrum-half should have gotten it out cleanly, flicked it back to Wilkinson, who would have SCORED magnificently with a field goal and saved even more!

{US viewers, just pass this over - it is only for UK and Oz viewers, OK?}

CFLarsen · 1st December 2003, 01:26 AM

As usual, Tom Lehrer said it best:

Quote:

A Christmas Carol
Christmas time is here, by golly,
Disapproval would be folly.
Deck the halls with hunks of holly,
Fill the cup and don't say when.

Kill the turkeys, ducks and chickens,
Mix the punch, drag out the Dickens.
Even though the prospect sickens,
Brother, here we go again.

On Christmas Day you can't get sore,
Your fellow man you must adore.
There's time to rob him all the more
The other three hundred and sixty-four.

Relations, sparing no expense, 'll
Send some useless old utensil,
Or a matching pen and pencil.
("Just the thing I need, how nice!")

It doesn't matter how sincere it is,
Nor how heart felt the spirit,
Sentiment will not endear it,
What's important is the price.

Hark, the Herald Tribune sings,
Advertising wondrous things.
God rest ye merry merchants,
May ye make the Yuletide pay.
Angels we have heard on high,
Tell us to go out and buy!

So, let the raucous sleighbells jingle,
Hail our dear old friend Kris Kringle,
Driving his reindeer across the sky.
Don't stand underneath when they fly by.

Luciana · 1st December 2003, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Don
But she was only saving $15

That's the price of a meal, at least...

Jaggy Bunnet · 1st December 2003, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luciana Nery

That's the price of a meal, at least...

And the sale price is the price of two meals. If you are struggling for enough food to eat, would you really buy a DVD player?

HarryKeogh · 1st December 2003, 05:33 AM

i'm sure some of the people there were buying stuff that they ordinarily couldnt afford

but i think the majority of them (not that i have any stats to back up my opinion) are caught up in the hype.

either way, my main gripe is with the mob mentality that revealed itself once the doors opened.

sure, security should have been better but do you need a security guard to tell you not to walk over a person lying helpless on the floor?

these people seemed more selfish than frugal.

The Don · 1st December 2003, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luciana Nery

That's the price of a meal, at least...

If you put a meal in a DVD player, you'll probably break it.

All I'm doing is questioning the priorities of someone who cannot afford $45 for a DVD player but can afford $30. Unless of course the person had no intention of acquiring any software and was instead proposing to borrow DVDs from a friend.

If they were so poor that $15 for a meal was a big deal then spend the $30 on two more meals

Luciana · 1st December 2003, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Don

All I'm doing is questioning the priorities of someone who cannot afford $45 for a DVD player but can afford $30. Unless of course the person had no intention of acquiring any software and was instead proposing to borrow DVDs from a friend.

If they were so poor that $15 for a meal was a big deal then spend the $30 on two more meals

I'm glad you've never been poor, Don!

Those things are not entirely rational. Maybe at US$29 the dream of taking a DVD home - just imagine what the kids will think! can become true. Visiting a restaurant in the next week is not out of bounds, but at least they have their DVD player! Or maybe aunt Mary didn't know what to give for her teenager niece, thought how much the girl would like to have one for her bedroom... many possible reasons. Maybe the extra $15 would allow to buy a toy for another niece.

Everybody is used to sales, who could expect that this particular one would turn nasty? So it's not about risking your safety vs. sale.

The Don · 1st December 2003, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luciana Nery

I'm glad you've never been poor, Don!

Those things are not entirely rational. Maybe at US$29 the dream of taking a DVD home - just imagine what the kids will think! can become true. Visiting a restaurant in the next week is not out of bounds, but at least they have their DVD player! Or maybe aunt Mary didn't know what to give for her teenager niece, thought how much the girl would like to have one for her bedroom... many possible reasons. Maybe the extra $15 would allow to buy a toy for another niece.

Everybody is used to sales, who could expect that this particular one would turn nasty? So it's not about risking your safety vs. sale.

How dare you make assumptions about my financial past.

Luciana · 1st December 2003, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Don
How dare you make assumptions about my financial past.

I'm not daring, it's an assumption made on what you've told me. But anyway, I apologize for it, as it wasn't warranted. But if we are to discuss poverty... well, I win already. Look at my location. And no, I'm not even speaking in a personal perspective, as my family was middle-class by the time I was a pre-teen, when those things really start to matter.

I find the idea of "borrowing" DVDs very feasible, for example, I see this kind of thing being done all the time. I'm very happy for those who got their DVD players for that low price, even more because they had to fight for it!

shanek · 1st December 2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luciana Nery
Those things are not entirely rational. Maybe at US$29 the dream of taking a DVD home - just imagine what the kids will think! can become true.

Exactly! This is called "creation of wealth" and it's the reason why America, as I showed in another thread, has the richest poor people of all time!

ArmchairPhysicist · 1st December 2003, 06:10 PM

Quote:

I'm glad you've never been poor, Don!

It isn't a $45 DVD player, it's a whole list of thiings that she has likely been adding to for roughly eleven months. The DVD player just happened to be the one she was holding at the time of the knockdown. She's also probably been socking cash away for the same amount of time, waiting for the first sales of this season.

It isn't 30% off of a 45 dollar item, it's 30% off a year's worth of spending, and will probably end up representing about 25-40% of her annual income by the time she's done shopping. Well, if she hadn't gone down in the first quarter, that is.

Grammatron · 6th December 2003, 09:25 PM

It appears there might be more to this story than first thought.

From the article:

Quote:

DAYTONA BEACH -- A Wal-Mart customer who was right up front where a woman claimed she was injured in a stampede for Christmas-sale DVDs the morning after Thanksgiving said there was no such rush.

"There was no stampede; there was no bell ringing like they said," said Gale Barr of Deltona, who said she was at the Wal-Mart store in Orange City with her 20-year-old daughter as they took five DVDs for themselves and helped pass more to others in the crowd behind them
....
By mid-week, media reports surfaced showing VanLester, a former Wal-Mart employee, had filed eight workers' compensation injury claims against Wal-Mart and at least eight claims against other businesses she frequented -- either as a worker or customer, according to public records and Wal-Mart officials. And her sister Ellzey, who claimed she was first in line with her injured sister, also had filed an injury complaint against Wal-Mart.

This might turn out to be anothe false claim filed to get money out of Wal-Mart.

Doubt · 8th December 2003, 06:16 AM

Gosh darn it. Gammatron beat me to it, but here is more on the non-trampling.

http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?o...d=192&Itemid=1

Quote:

"Vanlester [the "victim"] has for years complained of head, back, neck, leg or arm pain caused by slipping and falling, objects falling on her and other accidents, according to medical records in a public court file...In fact, her sister says she was wearing a neck brace at the time of last Friday's incident because of injuries from a years-old car accident."

The who's lying site is very interesting beyond this story. It has not been around very long.

29th November 2003, 06:18 PM	#1
HarryKeogh Catholic School Survivor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 11,342	Woman trampled over a crappy DVD player first off, i'd rather pay full price then get up at 3 AM to secure my place in line to save a few bucks secondly, i hope that i'm never that pathetic a human being to literally walk over someone to grab a piece of electronic hardware on sale. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104373,00.html i found this part of the story particularly interesting... Ellzey said Wal-Mart officials called later Friday to ask about her sister, and the store apologized and offered to put a DVD player on hold for her. Wal-Mart Stores spokeswoman Karen Burk said she had never heard of a such a melee during a sale. ''We are very disappointed this happened,'' Burk said. ''We want her to come back as a shopper.'' hmmm, attention Wal-Mart executives, maybe purely from a PR point of view you may want to just "give" her a dvd player instead of putting one aside for her later to purchase after she fully regains conciousness. call me crazy but it might be a nice gesture.

29th November 2003, 06:26 PM	#2
rikzilla Ninja wave: Atomic fire-breath ninja Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 5,001	Behold, I bid you great tidings of comfort and joy! For this day in Bethlehem, a child is born... The Prince of Peace, Lord of Lords, Savior of the world! ...now get out there and celebrate by beating the crap outta some stranger for a chance at some cheap consumer electronics! ...Ah,...nothing says Christmas like a WalMart stampede! -z
	__________________ "You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon." -Chancellor Gorkon "inside Mr .Skinny lives a big man" -pillory (18 Jan 2007)

29th November 2003, 07:06 PM	#3
Frank Newgent Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4,685	Quote: Originally posted by rikzilla ...Ah,...nothing says Christmas like a WalMart stampede! -z Quote: Paramedics called to the store found VanLester unconscious on top of a DVD player, surrounded by shoppers seemingly oblivious to her, said Mark O'Keefe, a spokesman for EVAC Ambulance. Sounds like that one may be damaged. If I were paying the full $29 for a DVD I'd check it first. http://www.nbc4.com/news/2669560/detail.html Quote: "The comic relief to tell you the truth. We just want the adventure of it," said one shopper. "Have you been in there? Down by the TV's they're crazy." I retail in gem, mineral and jewelry shows. Doing a lot of them these days and drawing on experience I can see that times are unusual. Believe that it's safe to generalize that the average person is extremely prudent and concerned about their employment. These folks are clearly spending fewer dollars unless it is with a mega-retailer like Walmart selling popular items at or below cost to draw in the crowds. Overall things would be way down compared to past years but for some of the strangest high end items becoming suddenly popular. Not hard to see who has the money these days...
	__________________ Disturbances of the semantic reactions in connection with faulty education and ignorance must be considered as sub-microscopic colloidal lesions - Alfred O. Korzybski

30th November 2003, 06:14 AM	#4
zakur Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 3,265	http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showt...threadid=31431
	__________________ "I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." -Thomas Carlyle "That's the problem these days: nobody thinks of the tumors." -steinhenge

30th November 2003, 07:04 AM	#5
Evolver Muse Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 783	I read in today's paper that Wal-Mart has offered to put another DVD on hold for her. How generous of them. It's the least they can do. Absolutely the least.
Evolver Muse Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 783	__________________ "For duty & humanity!" -Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine & Dr. Howard "There's a lot of people that would like to forget about me as soon as possible. I'm on their side." - Frank Zappa "What the hell are you starin' at?" -Duckman

30th November 2003, 07:30 AM	#6
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	Dunno. I bought a couple of Wal-Mart cheapie DVD players at like $45 a copy. Seems like a lot of effort and danger to save $15. I mean if $15 is that important, why would one buy a DVD player in the first place? And rent movies, BTW.
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

30th November 2003, 01:44 PM	#7
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,329	The lousy government in Victoria has put a stop to these sales after a shopper lost a part of her finger. Can't they do anything right?
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

30th November 2003, 02:30 PM	#8
Luciana Skeptical Carioca Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,952	For some people, it's either a DVD player at sale price or no DVD at all. If I were broke and wanted a DVD player for my family, and couldn't pay the full price, I'd gladly spend the night at the store's door, and I'd be very happy to bring it home. There's nothing indignified about it. Sure, Wal Mart must be more careful next time... there are better ways of doing it. The way they did it, they enticed a mob behavior that proved dangerous. But sales shouldn't be discouraged because of that.
	__________________ Regards, Luciana

30th November 2003, 03:31 PM	#9
Monketey Ghost Body of Work Join Date: May 2003 Location: I'm on your screen! Posts: 14,807	That was entirely too rational, Luciana. Jeez.
	__________________ _{The membership of this forum is henceforth to refer to me as potato-headed Bobby} _{SSKCAS, member in long standing}

1st December 2003, 01:04 AM	#10
The Don Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cymru Posts: 8,257	But she was only saving $15

1st December 2003, 01:08 AM	#11
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	OK, so she may have collapsed over the DVD player, but the scrum-half should have gotten it out cleanly, flicked it back to Wilkinson, who would have SCORED magnificently with a field goal and saved even more! {US viewers, just pass this over - it is only for UK and Oz viewers, OK?}
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

1st December 2003, 01:26 AM	#12
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	As usual, Tom Lehrer said it best: Quote: A Christmas Carol Christmas time is here, by golly, Disapproval would be folly. Deck the halls with hunks of holly, Fill the cup and don't say when. Kill the turkeys, ducks and chickens, Mix the punch, drag out the Dickens. Even though the prospect sickens, Brother, here we go again. On Christmas Day you can't get sore, Your fellow man you must adore. There's time to rob him all the more The other three hundred and sixty-four. Relations, sparing no expense, 'll Send some useless old utensil, Or a matching pen and pencil. ("Just the thing I need, how nice!") It doesn't matter how sincere it is, Nor how heart felt the spirit, Sentiment will not endear it, What's important is the price. Hark, the Herald Tribune sings, Advertising wondrous things. God rest ye merry merchants, May ye make the Yuletide pay. Angels we have heard on high, Tell us to go out and buy! So, let the raucous sleighbells jingle, Hail our dear old friend Kris Kringle, Driving his reindeer across the sky. Don't stand underneath when they fly by.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

1st December 2003, 04:49 AM	#13
Luciana Skeptical Carioca Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,952	Quote: Originally posted by The Don But she was only saving $15 That's the price of a meal, at least...
	__________________ Regards, Luciana

1st December 2003, 05:19 AM	#14
Jaggy Bunnet Philosopher Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sunny Leith Posts: 6,148	Quote: Originally posted by Luciana Nery That's the price of a meal, at least... And the sale price is the price of two meals. If you are struggling for enough food to eat, would you really buy a DVD player?

1st December 2003, 05:33 AM	#15
HarryKeogh Catholic School Survivor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 11,342	i'm sure some of the people there were buying stuff that they ordinarily couldnt afford but i think the majority of them (not that i have any stats to back up my opinion) are caught up in the hype. either way, my main gripe is with the mob mentality that revealed itself once the doors opened. sure, security should have been better but do you need a security guard to tell you not to walk over a person lying helpless on the floor? these people seemed more selfish than frugal.

1st December 2003, 05:47 AM	#16
The Don Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cymru Posts: 8,257	Quote: Originally posted by Luciana Nery That's the price of a meal, at least... If you put a meal in a DVD player, you'll probably break it. All I'm doing is questioning the priorities of someone who cannot afford $45 for a DVD player but can afford $30. Unless of course the person had no intention of acquiring any software and was instead proposing to borrow DVDs from a friend. If they were so poor that $15 for a meal was a big deal then spend the $30 on two more meals

1st December 2003, 07:11 AM	#17
Luciana Skeptical Carioca Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,952	Quote: Originally posted by The Don All I'm doing is questioning the priorities of someone who cannot afford $45 for a DVD player but can afford $30. Unless of course the person had no intention of acquiring any software and was instead proposing to borrow DVDs from a friend. If they were so poor that $15 for a meal was a big deal then spend the $30 on two more meals I'm glad you've never been poor, Don! Those things are not entirely rational. Maybe at US$29 the dream of taking a DVD home - just imagine what the kids will think! can become true. Visiting a restaurant in the next week is not out of bounds, but at least they have their DVD player! Or maybe aunt Mary didn't know what to give for her teenager niece, thought how much the girl would like to have one for her bedroom... many possible reasons. Maybe the extra $15 would allow to buy a toy for another niece. Everybody is used to sales, who could expect that this particular one would turn nasty? So it's not about risking your safety vs. sale.
	__________________ Regards, Luciana

1st December 2003, 07:16 AM	#18
The Don Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cymru Posts: 8,257	Quote: Originally posted by Luciana Nery I'm glad you've never been poor, Don! Those things are not entirely rational. Maybe at US$29 the dream of taking a DVD home - just imagine what the kids will think! can become true. Visiting a restaurant in the next week is not out of bounds, but at least they have their DVD player! Or maybe aunt Mary didn't know what to give for her teenager niece, thought how much the girl would like to have one for her bedroom... many possible reasons. Maybe the extra $15 would allow to buy a toy for another niece. Everybody is used to sales, who could expect that this particular one would turn nasty? So it's not about risking your safety vs. sale. How dare you make assumptions about my financial past.

1st December 2003, 04:28 PM	#19
Luciana Skeptical Carioca Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,952	Quote: Originally posted by The Don How dare you make assumptions about my financial past. I'm not daring, it's an assumption made on what you've told me. But anyway, I apologize for it, as it wasn't warranted. But if we are to discuss poverty... well, I win already. Look at my location. And no, I'm not even speaking in a personal perspective, as my family was middle-class by the time I was a pre-teen, when those things really start to matter. I find the idea of "borrowing" DVDs very feasible, for example, I see this kind of thing being done all the time. I'm very happy for those who got their DVD players for that low price, even more because they had to fight for it!
	__________________ Regards, Luciana

1st December 2003, 04:46 PM	#20
shanek by Charles M. Schulz Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 15,990	Quote: Originally posted by Luciana Nery Those things are not entirely rational. Maybe at US$29 the dream of taking a DVD home - just imagine what the kids will think! can become true. Exactly! This is called "creation of wealth" and it's the reason why America, as I showed in another thread, has the richest poor people of all time!
	__________________ "James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is.

1st December 2003, 06:10 PM	#21
ArmchairPhysicist Scholar Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 68	Quote: I'm glad you've never been poor, Don! It isn't a $45 DVD player, it's a whole list of thiings that she has likely been adding to for roughly eleven months. The DVD player just happened to be the one she was holding at the time of the knockdown. She's also probably been socking cash away for the same amount of time, waiting for the first sales of this season. It isn't 30% off of a 45 dollar item, it's 30% off a year's worth of spending, and will probably end up representing about 25-40% of her annual income by the time she's done shopping. Well, if she hadn't gone down in the first quarter, that is.
ArmchairPhysicist Scholar Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 68

6th December 2003, 09:25 PM	#22
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	It appears there might be more to this story than first thought. From the article: Quote: DAYTONA BEACH -- A Wal-Mart customer who was right up front where a woman claimed she was injured in a stampede for Christmas-sale DVDs the morning after Thanksgiving said there was no such rush. "There was no stampede; there was no bell ringing like they said," said Gale Barr of Deltona, who said she was at the Wal-Mart store in Orange City with her 20-year-old daughter as they took five DVDs for themselves and helped pass more to others in the crowd behind them .... By mid-week, media reports surfaced showing VanLester, a former Wal-Mart employee, had filed eight workers' compensation injury claims against Wal-Mart and at least eight claims against other businesses she frequented -- either as a worker or customer, according to public records and Wal-Mart officials. And her sister Ellzey, who claimed she was first in line with her injured sister, also had filed an injury complaint against Wal-Mart. This might turn out to be anothe false claim filed to get money out of Wal-Mart.
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446

8th December 2003, 06:16 AM	#23
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 5,444	Gosh darn it. Gammatron beat me to it, but here is more on the non-trampling. http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?o...d=192&Itemid=1 Quote: "Vanlester [the "victim"] has for years complained of head, back, neck, leg or arm pain caused by slipping and falling, objects falling on her and other accidents, according to medical records in a public court file...In fact, her sister says she was wearing a neck brace at the time of last Friday's incident because of injuries from a years-old car accident." The who's lying site is very interesting beyond this story. It has not been around very long.
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 5,444	__________________ Doubt world tour locations: Mostly home for now. No international travel scheduled other than the Galapagos trip in March. Disclaimer: Not a high energy scientist!