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Skeptical Greg · 24th May 2009, 05:37 PM

I was surprised when a search didn't turn up an entry on this - so here goes.

( apologies if I overlooked it )

Passer-by pushes suicide jumper in south China

Quote:

Lai volunteered to talk Chen down but was turned away by police, Xinhua said. Lai then broke through the cordon, climbed to where Chen sat, greeted him with a handshake, then pushed.
........ The passer-by, 66-year-old Lai Jiansheng, had been fed up with what he called Chen's "selfish activity," Xinhua said. Traffic around the Haizhu bridge in the city of Guangzhou had been backed up for five hours and police had cordoned off the area.....

Photos in the Beijing Morning Post showed Lai, shoeless and in a T-shirt, saluting after Chen fell.

rjh01 · 25th May 2009, 12:09 AM

I wonder what he will be charged with
1. Assisted suicide
2. Murder / manslaughter
3. Nothing

Skeptic Ginger · 25th May 2009, 01:00 AM

Talk about selfish. I'd say the guy who was annoyed at the traffic inconvenience had no compassion for an extremely troubled person.

On a different note, why could the police set up fall bags but not manage to grab the guy and take him off the bridge. Even the jerk who thought he should push the guy off could have wrestled him off the ledge instead.

Safe-Keeper · 25th May 2009, 04:00 AM

Nothing to add. A disgusting case.

Eddie Dane · 25th May 2009, 05:38 AM

Just.....wow.

Silly Green Monkey · 25th May 2009, 06:39 AM

Did the jumper die? The article I read indicated that he'd landed on the cushion and suffered injuries. Pity the pusher didn't wait until the bag was inflated...

casebro · 25th May 2009, 07:55 AM

In a communist society, he deserved to be pushed.

If he delayed 100,000 people for five hours, that adds up to one life. Eye for an eye, it was time to push him. Rescue bags or not.

Alt+F4 · 25th May 2009, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey

Did the jumper die? The article I read indicated that he'd landed on the cushion and suffered injuries. Pity the pusher didn't wait until the bag was inflated...

You're right, the guy didn't die, back injuries I believe. I'd consider him the "pushee" rather than the jumper however. As for the pusher, seems he has mental health issues as well. Who'd a thunk it?

Alt+F4 · 25th May 2009, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by casebro

In a communist society, he deserved to be pushed.

I wonder what would have happened if this was in a libertarian society?

Wolfman · 25th May 2009, 09:35 AM

I haven't been able to find any online references to this from China, other than a brief article in the China Daily that gives pretty much the same info as this article.

However, when I queried some of my friends in China about it, they said that it hasn't been reported much in the press, but has been all over the internet. There is all sorts of debate about it, with the vast majority condemning Lai Jiansheng for his actions.

The criticism is not universal, however. Some people point out that an emergency cushion had been inflated below, and that Lai was simply expediting matters by pushing the man onto it (the fact that it was not fully inflated is an accident that Lai would not have been aware of).

There's also not a terribly great amount of sympathy for a lot of these threatened (or actual) suicides. The majority of them seem to be related to financial matters, in most cases related to gambling debt, or corruption. An awful lot of Chinese tend to view such a suicide as simply saving everyone else a lot of time and money.

Lai was arrested. The victim didn't die, so no murder charges. The fact that there was a cushion below would make a charge of attempted murder difficult (in that Lai may have firmly believed that the man would not die, and was not trying to kill him). However, Lai's action did bring the matter to international attention, and caused a loss of face for the country, and the police. So I'm quite certain that they will find some way to make sure he suffers for his act.

Soapy Sam · 25th May 2009, 02:28 PM

Having once been stuck in traffic for over an hour by two guys lying in the road protesting something, I have a sneaking sympathy for Mr.Lai.

El Greco · 25th May 2009, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

Having once been stuck in traffic for over an hour by two guys lying in the road protesting something, I have a sneaking sympathy for Mr.Lai.

Ummm... they weren't lying protesting, they were pushed by someone from the bridge above.

INRM · 26th May 2009, 06:08 PM

I think the person who did this should be tried for murder. In China that should result in his brains getting splattered and the family docked the bullet.

linusrichard · 26th May 2009, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by INRM

I think the person who did this should be tried for murder. In China that should result in his brains getting splattered and the family docked the bullet.

Again, for murder you need a dead person. Attempted murder would be the top, if they could prove intent, or A&B causing grievous bodily harm (or the Chinese equivalent) depending on the injuries, or some sort of aggravated A&B otherwise.

Wolfman · 26th May 2009, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by INRM

I think the person who did this should be tried for murder. In China that should result in his brains getting splattered and the family docked the bullet.

As linusrichard stated...it is, in pretty much every country in the world (so far as I'm aware) impossible to convict somebody of murder when nobody has died. That includes China.

Fortunately, what "you think" has no bearing on the situation.

24th May 2009, 05:37 PM	#1
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past 'Resume Speed' Posts: 12,892	A Different Spin On Assisted Suicide I was surprised when a search didn't turn up an entry on this - so here goes. ( apologies if I overlooked it ) Passer-by pushes suicide jumper in south China Quote: Lai volunteered to talk Chen down but was turned away by police, Xinhua said. Lai then broke through the cordon, climbed to where Chen sat, greeted him with a handshake, then pushed. ........ The passer-by, 66-year-old Lai Jiansheng, had been fed up with what he called Chen's "selfish activity," Xinhua said. Traffic around the Haizhu bridge in the city of Guangzhou had been backed up for five hours and police had cordoned off the area..... Photos in the Beijing Morning Post showed Lai, shoeless and in a T-shirt, saluting after Chen fell.
	__________________ " Somewhere between Jesus dying on the cross, and a giant bunny hiding eggs,there seems to be a gap in information. " Stan - Southpark Prove your computer is not a wimp ! Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Last edited by Skeptical Greg; 24th May 2009 at 05:39 PM.

25th May 2009, 01:00 AM	#3
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,799	Talk about selfish. I'd say the guy who was annoyed at the traffic inconvenience had no compassion for an extremely troubled person. On a different note, why could the police set up fall bags but not manage to grab the guy and take him off the bridge. Even the jerk who thought he should push the guy off could have wrestled him off the ledge instead.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

25th May 2009, 04:00 AM	#4
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,176	Nothing to add. A disgusting case.
	__________________

25th May 2009, 07:55 AM	#7
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,880	In a communist society, he deserved to be pushed. If he delayed 100,000 people for five hours, that adds up to one life. Eye for an eye, it was time to push him. Rescue bags or not.
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,880	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

25th May 2009, 07:58 AM	#8
Alt+F4 diabolical globalist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Department of Abandoned Places Posts: 9,804	Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey Did the jumper die? The article I read indicated that he'd landed on the cushion and suffered injuries. Pity the pusher didn't wait until the bag was inflated... You're right, the guy didn't die, back injuries I believe. I'd consider him the "pushee" rather than the jumper however. As for the pusher, seems he has mental health issues as well. Who'd a thunk it?
	__________________ "My folks touched a lot of kids." - Jerry Sandusky

25th May 2009, 12:09 AM	#2
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 17,322	I wonder what he will be charged with 1. Assisted suicide 2. Murder / manslaughter 3. Nothing

25th May 2009, 05:38 AM	#5
Eddie Dane Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,481	Just.....wow.

25th May 2009, 06:39 AM	#6
Silly Green Monkey Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,094	Did the jumper die? The article I read indicated that he'd landed on the cushion and suffered injuries. Pity the pusher didn't wait until the bag was inflated...

25th May 2009, 08:00 AM	#9
Alt+F4 diabolical globalist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Department of Abandoned Places Posts: 9,804	Originally Posted by casebro In a communist society, he deserved to be pushed. I wonder what would have happened if this was in a libertarian society?
	__________________ "My folks touched a lot of kids." - Jerry Sandusky

25th May 2009, 09:35 AM	#10
Wolfman Chief Solipsistic Autosycophant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dongguan, China Posts: 11,853	I haven't been able to find any online references to this from China, other than a brief article in the China Daily that gives pretty much the same info as this article. However, when I queried some of my friends in China about it, they said that it hasn't been reported much in the press, but has been all over the internet. There is all sorts of debate about it, with the vast majority condemning Lai Jiansheng for his actions. The criticism is not universal, however. Some people point out that an emergency cushion had been inflated below, and that Lai was simply expediting matters by pushing the man onto it (the fact that it was not fully inflated is an accident that Lai would not have been aware of). There's also not a terribly great amount of sympathy for a lot of these threatened (or actual) suicides. The majority of them seem to be related to financial matters, in most cases related to gambling debt, or corruption. An awful lot of Chinese tend to view such a suicide as simply saving everyone else a lot of time and money. Lai was arrested. The victim didn't die, so no murder charges. The fact that there was a cushion below would make a charge of attempted murder difficult (in that Lai may have firmly believed that the man would not die, and was not trying to kill him). However, Lai's action did bring the matter to international attention, and caused a loss of face for the country, and the police. So I'm quite certain that they will find some way to make sure he suffers for his act.
	__________________ The Meta-Solipsistic Autosycophant mantra: "I post, therefore I am nominated"

25th May 2009, 02:28 PM	#11
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,907	Having once been stuck in traffic for over an hour by two guys lying in the road protesting something, I have a sneaking sympathy for Mr.Lai.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,907

25th May 2009, 03:00 PM	#12
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 14,426	Originally Posted by Soapy Sam Having once been stuck in traffic for over an hour by two guys lying in the road protesting something, I have a sneaking sympathy for Mr.Lai. Ummm... they weren't lying protesting, they were pushed by someone from the bridge above.
	__________________ "Robbing a bank is no crime compared to owning one" - Bertolt Brecht "Let it go and come to bed already, El Greco" - MoeFaux

26th May 2009, 06:08 PM	#13
INRM Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,490	I think the person who did this should be tried for murder. In China that should result in his brains getting splattered and the family docked the bullet.
INRM Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,490

26th May 2009, 06:13 PM	#14
linusrichard Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lansing, Mich. Posts: 2,668	Originally Posted by INRM I think the person who did this should be tried for murder. In China that should result in his brains getting splattered and the family docked the bullet. Again, for murder you need a dead person. Attempted murder would be the top, if they could prove intent, or A&B causing grievous bodily harm (or the Chinese equivalent) depending on the injuries, or some sort of aggravated A&B otherwise.

26th May 2009, 07:41 PM	#15
Wolfman Chief Solipsistic Autosycophant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dongguan, China Posts: 11,853	Originally Posted by INRM I think the person who did this should be tried for murder. In China that should result in his brains getting splattered and the family docked the bullet. As linusrichard stated...it is, in pretty much every country in the world (so far as I'm aware) impossible to convict somebody of murder when nobody has died. That includes China. Fortunately, what "you think" has no bearing on the situation.
	__________________ The Meta-Solipsistic Autosycophant mantra: "I post, therefore I am nominated"