Australia not in recession

lionking · 2nd June 2009, 11:03 PM

A bit early to pop the champagne corks I know, but Australia is the only advanced economy not in recession (as strictly defined):

http://business.theage.com.au/busine...0603-buyq.html

Quote:

Gross domestic product for the March quarter grew a seasonally adjusted 0.4 per cent from the previous three months, the Australian Bureau of Statistics said, bouncing back from a revised 0.6 per cent decline in the final three months of last year.
Analysts had expected the Australian economy to have risen 0.2 per cent in the first quarter, with many revising their predictions to growth from a contraction after yesterday's surprisingly good trade figures for the period.

I am not at all a fan of the Rudd government, but the $A70billion or so stimulus packages seem to be working so far. Comments? Am I foolishly optimistic?

a_unique_person · 3rd June 2009, 02:15 AM

It's a big gamble, because no one can possibly predict or know how to react to the current crises. Certainly, compared to six months ago, there is not the same sense of panic in the air, and the stock market has stabilised. GM has gone bust, but it didn't seem to spook anyone.

Either way, you can guarantee that if the Liberals were in power, they would have done pretty much the same thing, as they all get their advice from Treasury. There would have been a lot of meetings between the Government ministers, Unions and Business leaders to ensure that everyone had a basic agreement on the seriousness of the situation and the need for radical action.

We will end up in recession, though, at some time. This is only just the first battle in what will be a longer campaign. The important thing was to not let everything collapse in a panic stricken mess. Now that that has been achieved, it's on to the long term recovery. The stimulus can only do so much, and unemployment is still rising.

lionking · 3rd June 2009, 02:53 AM

I'm not sure we will end up in a recession. China could still be our saviour.

foxholeatheist · 3rd June 2009, 05:33 AM

Am I correct in understanding that in Oz liberal means what we Usains would call conservative? Is that fiscally or socially liberal?

Good to hear all is well. Maybe I'll have to stake out my own home among the gum trees.

a_unique_person · 3rd June 2009, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by foxholeatheist

Am I correct in understanding that in Oz liberal means what we Usains would call conservative? Is that fiscally or socially liberal?

The Liberals are the Conservative party. Their name originally referred to the idea of "Classical Liberalism". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism . Kind of a Conservative version of Libertarianism.

a_unique_person · 3rd June 2009, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

I'm not sure we will end up in a recession. China could still be our saviour.

China's biggest customer is the USA, IIRC. If the US isn't buying from China, China isn't buying from us.

The stimulus worked, but it was a once off. You can't do that too often. It was necessary, but expensive. Interest rates have a few more percent left, but that's about it, too.

Darat · 3rd June 2009, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

A bit early to pop the champagne corks I know, but Australia is the only advanced economy not in recession (as strictly defined):

...snip...

Got half a trillion dollars to spare guv?

foxholeatheist · 3rd June 2009, 05:50 AM

Thanks. The extent of my knowledge of Australian politics ends Pauline Hanson. But at least it begins with yard glasses.

Do economic tendencies tie in with social tendencies like they tend to do in the States?

Tsukasa Buddha · 3rd June 2009, 02:29 PM

I am skeptical. Seems like just a simple number game rather than actual economic stability.

lionking · 3rd June 2009, 02:56 PM

Economics is a numbers game.

shadron · 3rd June 2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Economics is a numbers game.

As he said above, Australia isn't in recession as it is strictly defined. That makes it a numbers game, as that is how recession is defined - by numbers. If you want to go soft, then you need to invent your own touchy-feely definition for when some area is in recession.

Tsukasa Buddha · 3rd June 2009, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Economics is a numbers game.

Har, har, but seriously, the number used is just an artifact of the major crach in imports, which is a sign of the opposite of a healthy economy, firms lowering investments, and predictions of unemployment to continue to rise but gives that happy number for today.

lionking · 3rd June 2009, 08:55 PM

The past two posts are correct, but one of the most important factors in a recovery is confidence. The "no recession" news was good and has boosted business confidence here. Whether it will be sustained is another matter.

rjh01 · 3rd June 2009, 10:47 PM

Australia is not in recession because the numbers are too volatile. What the commentators ignore are the facts. Seasonally adjusted GDP went up 0.4%, but the trend figure was down by 0.1%. The next quarter is likely to be -ve. However Australia is doing better than its major trading partners. Not sure why. Maybe because in Australia they did not routinely give housing loans to people who had no documentation, so that housing prices did not collapse, causing the banks to be in trouble. You know the rest.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@....0?OpenDocument

Damien Evans · 4th June 2009, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by foxholeatheist

Am I correct in understanding that in Oz liberal means what we Usains would call conservative? Is that fiscally or socially liberal?

Good to hear all is well. Maybe I'll have to stake out my own home among the gum trees.

Technically yes although if transplanted to America most liberals would become democrats, since you're crazy conservative over there.

a_unique_person · 4th June 2009, 04:04 AM

Originally Posted by foxholeatheist

Thanks. The extent of my knowledge of Australian politics ends Pauline Hanson. But at least it begins with yard glasses.

Do economic tendencies tie in with social tendencies like they tend to do in the States?

Are you asking about race? The "old boys club" that tends to run the big end of town tends to be WASP, but that is breaking down, most of Australia is pretty multicultural, then the Aboriginals are still experiencing severe problems.

a_unique_person · 5th June 2009, 05:16 PM

Two good articles in "The Age" today.

http://business.theage.com.au/busine...0605-byn2.html

http://business.theage.com.au/busine...0605-byn7.html

Australia's position to date is a mixture of

* Luck
* Good Policy
* Regulation

Luck in that we had an economy that was already expanding, so there was somewhere sensible to invest without resorting to risk.
Experience from deregulation in the '80s, when a few banks did go under, and some almost did. The corporate memory was able to look back a decade or so and remember that banking involves a good degree of prudence.
Regulation against mergers and take overs of the larger banks means that they can concentrate on banking rather the high risk strategies needed to pursue and prevent predatory behaviour used to expand market share.

Tsukasa Buddha · 5th June 2009, 06:41 PM

Apparently, the ABS cheated:

Quote:

THE March quarter gross domestic product changes very little. In particular, it doesn't change the fact that on any sensible definition Australia is in recession. Nor, more to the point, does it change my view that things will get worse.
The surprise was due to the Australian Bureau of Statistics changing the way it tracks bulk commodity prices. Usually the bureau waits for the major contracts to be settled, and factors in the price changes in the June quarter (because the contract prices are set from April 1). Yesterday it announced that it was factoring in lower prices in the March quarter. Factoring in a lower price implied a higher volume for exports, which lifted GDP. Consequently, net exports added 1.4 percentage points to growth in the quarter. Forget this statistical jiggery-pokery: the key numbers to focus on are national income and domestic demand. Australia's boom was not a GDP boom; it was a national income and domestic demand boom. Yesterday's data confirm that boom is busting. Gross national spending fell by 1 per cent in the first quarter, following a 1.3 per cent fall in the fourth. Real gross domestic income fell by 1.2 per cent in both quarters.

Linky.

I refuse to believe in your happiness!!!

lionking · 6th June 2009, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha

Apparently, the ABS cheated:

Linky.

I refuse to believe in your happiness!!!

The Age is full of whingers. And I mean that seriously.

a_unique_person · 6th June 2009, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha

Apparently, the ABS cheated:

Linky.

I refuse to believe in your happiness!!!

There really isn't much difference between just being in recession, or just not being in recession, either way the economy is hurting. It's just not hurting as much as other Western economies are.

Damien Evans · 6th June 2009, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

The Age is full of whingers. And I mean that seriously.

True, but unfortunately the other one is full of tools, so there's not much value in either.

Both are better than the toilet paper that are the Sydney tabloids though. Are the broadsheets up there any good?

lionking · 6th June 2009, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by Damien Evans

True, but unfortunately the other one is full of tools, so there's not much value in either.

Both are better than the toilet paper that are the Sydney tabloids though. Are the broadsheets up there any good?

I've read the Age for over 30 years, but am about to move to the Australian.

a_unique_person · 6th June 2009, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

The Age is full of whingers. And I mean that seriously.

That article was written by an analyst from a private bank. I read the Australian for a few years, when they first started trying to make "The Age" more popular. The interstate news is more interesting, but there are just as many whingers on that paper as on "The Age".

Old Bob · 6th June 2009, 04:43 AM

Never mind what porkies the media feeds the sheep, we are in more than recession. Australia runs on export and growth and both have almost stopped. The public works (roads etc) is all that is keeping the wolf from the door. The real trouble will come if the USA - Israel or North Korea start a nuke exchange. The oil price will be the final nail in the coffin. Blue collar workers are in trouble and as they support white collar non-workers. Lets use the chance to purge the parasites. I will be writing to local council asking them why they ar'nt downsizing staff as we (the people) can no longer afford them.

lionking · 6th June 2009, 04:48 AM

Aren't you retired oldbob? Sponging of the taxpayer with your seniors card and lower rates and utilities bills etc?

Old Bob · 6th June 2009, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Aren't you retired oldbob? Sponging of the taxpayer with your seniors card and lower rates and utilities bills etc?

Ever heard of "self funded" lionking? I pay personal tax plus all the rest to keep you safe. My 93 year old Mum can't even get a health card, and yes we do protect the weak. Do you sponge the system lionking?

Old Bob · 9th June 2009, 03:08 PM

Cat got your tongue? lionking. Water shortage in western USA is and will affect Australia by causing price rises in food(20% of USA food was grown there) as this year is shaping up for starvation world wide. As much as we wish this possibility wrong I think we are a long way from the bottom, no signs of improvement.

2nd June 2009, 11:03 PM	#1
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,665	Australia not in recession A bit early to pop the champagne corks I know, but Australia is the only advanced economy not in recession (as strictly defined): http://business.theage.com.au/busine...0603-buyq.html Quote: Gross domestic product for the March quarter grew a seasonally adjusted 0.4 per cent from the previous three months, the Australian Bureau of Statistics said, bouncing back from a revised 0.6 per cent decline in the final three months of last year. Analysts had expected the Australian economy to have risen 0.2 per cent in the first quarter, with many revising their predictions to growth from a contraction after yesterday's surprisingly good trade figures for the period. I am not at all a fan of the Rudd government, but the $A70billion or so stimulus packages seem to be working so far. Comments? Am I foolishly optimistic?
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

3rd June 2009, 02:15 AM	#2
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,328	It's a big gamble, because no one can possibly predict or know how to react to the current crises. Certainly, compared to six months ago, there is not the same sense of panic in the air, and the stock market has stabilised. GM has gone bust, but it didn't seem to spook anyone. Either way, you can guarantee that if the Liberals were in power, they would have done pretty much the same thing, as they all get their advice from Treasury. There would have been a lot of meetings between the Government ministers, Unions and Business leaders to ensure that everyone had a basic agreement on the seriousness of the situation and the need for radical action. We will end up in recession, though, at some time. This is only just the first battle in what will be a longer campaign. The important thing was to not let everything collapse in a panic stricken mess. Now that that has been achieved, it's on to the long term recovery. The stimulus can only do so much, and unemployment is still rising.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

3rd June 2009, 02:53 AM	#3
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,665	I'm not sure we will end up in a recession. China could still be our saviour.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

3rd June 2009, 05:33 AM	#4
foxholeatheist Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2009 Location: Seoul, South Korea Posts: 1,132	Am I correct in understanding that in Oz liberal means what we Usains would call conservative? Is that fiscally or socially liberal? Good to hear all is well. Maybe I'll have to stake out my own home among the gum trees.
	__________________ You start wearing the blue and brown and You're working for the clampdown -The Clash http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/ - Streaming Documentaries. You're welcome!

3rd June 2009, 05:39 AM	#5
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,328	Originally Posted by foxholeatheist Am I correct in understanding that in Oz liberal means what we Usains would call conservative? Is that fiscally or socially liberal? The Liberals are the Conservative party. Their name originally referred to the idea of "Classical Liberalism". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism . Kind of a Conservative version of Libertarianism.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

3rd June 2009, 05:43 AM	#6
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,328	Originally Posted by lionking I'm not sure we will end up in a recession. China could still be our saviour. China's biggest customer is the USA, IIRC. If the US isn't buying from China, China isn't buying from us. The stimulus worked, but it was a once off. You can't do that too often. It was necessary, but expensive. Interest rates have a few more percent left, but that's about it, too.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

3rd June 2009, 05:44 AM	#7
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,783	Originally Posted by lionking A bit early to pop the champagne corks I know, but Australia is the only advanced economy not in recession (as strictly defined): ...snip... Got half a trillion dollars to spare guv?
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

3rd June 2009, 05:50 AM	#8
foxholeatheist Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2009 Location: Seoul, South Korea Posts: 1,132	Thanks. The extent of my knowledge of Australian politics ends Pauline Hanson. But at least it begins with yard glasses. Do economic tendencies tie in with social tendencies like they tend to do in the States?
	__________________ You start wearing the blue and brown and You're working for the clampdown -The Clash http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/ - Streaming Documentaries. You're welcome!

3rd June 2009, 02:29 PM	#9
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 9,914	I am skeptical. Seems like just a simple number game rather than actual economic stability.
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

3rd June 2009, 02:56 PM	#10
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,665	Economics is a numbers game.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

3rd June 2009, 03:17 PM	#11
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,719	Originally Posted by lionking Economics is a numbers game. As he said above, Australia isn't in recession as it is strictly defined. That makes it a numbers game, as that is how recession is defined - by numbers. If you want to go soft, then you need to invent your own touchy-feely definition for when some area is in recession.

3rd June 2009, 03:53 PM	#12
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 9,914	Originally Posted by lionking Economics is a numbers game. Har, har, but seriously, the number used is just an artifact of the major crach in imports, which is a sign of the opposite of a healthy economy, firms lowering investments, and predictions of unemployment to continue to rise but gives that happy number for today.
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

3rd June 2009, 08:55 PM	#13
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,665	The past two posts are correct, but one of the most important factors in a recovery is confidence. The "no recession" news was good and has boosted business confidence here. Whether it will be sustained is another matter.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

3rd June 2009, 10:47 PM	#14
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 17,188	Australia is not in recession because the numbers are too volatile. What the commentators ignore are the facts. Seasonally adjusted GDP went up 0.4%, but the trend figure was down by 0.1%. The next quarter is likely to be -ve. However Australia is doing better than its major trading partners. Not sure why. Maybe because in Australia they did not routinely give housing loans to people who had no documentation, so that housing prices did not collapse, causing the banks to be in trouble. You know the rest. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@....0?OpenDocument

4th June 2009, 01:31 AM	#15
Damien Evans Up The Irons Tagger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 25,300	Originally Posted by foxholeatheist Am I correct in understanding that in Oz liberal means what we Usains would call conservative? Is that fiscally or socially liberal? Good to hear all is well. Maybe I'll have to stake out my own home among the gum trees. Technically yes although if transplanted to America most liberals would become democrats, since you're crazy conservative over there.
	__________________ WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? - Death "Racism is a disease in society. We're all equal. I don't care what their colour is, or religion. Just as long as they're human beings they're my buddies." - Mandawuy Yunupingu, lead singer of Yothu Yindi

4th June 2009, 04:04 AM	#16
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,328	Originally Posted by foxholeatheist Thanks. The extent of my knowledge of Australian politics ends Pauline Hanson. But at least it begins with yard glasses. Do economic tendencies tie in with social tendencies like they tend to do in the States? Are you asking about race? The "old boys club" that tends to run the big end of town tends to be WASP, but that is breaking down, most of Australia is pretty multicultural, then the Aboriginals are still experiencing severe problems.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

5th June 2009, 05:16 PM	#17
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,328	Two good articles in "The Age" today. http://business.theage.com.au/busine...0605-byn2.html http://business.theage.com.au/busine...0605-byn7.html Australia's position to date is a mixture of * Luck * Good Policy * Regulation Luck in that we had an economy that was already expanding, so there was somewhere sensible to invest without resorting to risk. Experience from deregulation in the '80s, when a few banks did go under, and some almost did. The corporate memory was able to look back a decade or so and remember that banking involves a good degree of prudence. Regulation against mergers and take overs of the larger banks means that they can concentrate on banking rather the high risk strategies needed to pursue and prevent predatory behaviour used to expand market share.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

5th June 2009, 06:41 PM	#18
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 9,914	Apparently, the ABS cheated: Quote: THE March quarter gross domestic product changes very little. In particular, it doesn't change the fact that on any sensible definition Australia is in recession. Nor, more to the point, does it change my view that things will get worse. The surprise was due to the Australian Bureau of Statistics changing the way it tracks bulk commodity prices. Usually the bureau waits for the major contracts to be settled, and factors in the price changes in the June quarter (because the contract prices are set from April 1). Yesterday it announced that it was factoring in lower prices in the March quarter. Factoring in a lower price implied a higher volume for exports, which lifted GDP. Consequently, net exports added 1.4 percentage points to growth in the quarter. Forget this statistical jiggery-pokery: the key numbers to focus on are national income and domestic demand. Australia's boom was not a GDP boom; it was a national income and domestic demand boom. Yesterday's data confirm that boom is busting. Gross national spending fell by 1 per cent in the first quarter, following a 1.3 per cent fall in the fourth. Real gross domestic income fell by 1.2 per cent in both quarters. Linky. I refuse to believe in your happiness!!!
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

6th June 2009, 01:07 AM	#19
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,665	Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha Apparently, the ABS cheated: Linky. I refuse to believe in your happiness!!! The Age is full of whingers. And I mean that seriously.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

6th June 2009, 01:30 AM	#20
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,328	Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha Apparently, the ABS cheated: Linky. I refuse to believe in your happiness!!! There really isn't much difference between just being in recession, or just not being in recession, either way the economy is hurting. It's just not hurting as much as other Western economies are.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

6th June 2009, 01:41 AM	#21
Damien Evans Up The Irons Tagger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 25,300	Originally Posted by lionking The Age is full of whingers. And I mean that seriously. True, but unfortunately the other one is full of tools, so there's not much value in either. Both are better than the toilet paper that are the Sydney tabloids though. Are the broadsheets up there any good?
	__________________ WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? - Death "Racism is a disease in society. We're all equal. I don't care what their colour is, or religion. Just as long as they're human beings they're my buddies." - Mandawuy Yunupingu, lead singer of Yothu Yindi

6th June 2009, 01:56 AM	#22
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,665	Originally Posted by Damien Evans True, but unfortunately the other one is full of tools, so there's not much value in either. Both are better than the toilet paper that are the Sydney tabloids though. Are the broadsheets up there any good? I've read the Age for over 30 years, but am about to move to the Australian.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

6th June 2009, 03:25 AM	#23
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,328	Originally Posted by lionking The Age is full of whingers. And I mean that seriously. That article was written by an analyst from a private bank. I read the Australian for a few years, when they first started trying to make "The Age" more popular. The interstate news is more interesting, but there are just as many whingers on that paper as on "The Age".
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

6th June 2009, 04:43 AM	#24
Old Bob Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 649	Never mind what porkies the media feeds the sheep, we are in more than recession. Australia runs on export and growth and both have almost stopped. The public works (roads etc) is all that is keeping the wolf from the door. The real trouble will come if the USA - Israel or North Korea start a nuke exchange. The oil price will be the final nail in the coffin. Blue collar workers are in trouble and as they support white collar non-workers. Lets use the chance to purge the parasites. I will be writing to local council asking them why they ar'nt downsizing staff as we (the people) can no longer afford them.
Old Bob Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 649

6th June 2009, 04:48 AM	#25
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,665	Aren't you retired oldbob? Sponging of the taxpayer with your seniors card and lower rates and utilities bills etc?
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

6th June 2009, 03:45 PM	#26
Old Bob Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 649	Originally Posted by lionking Aren't you retired oldbob? Sponging of the taxpayer with your seniors card and lower rates and utilities bills etc? Ever heard of "self funded" lionking? I pay personal tax plus all the rest to keep you safe. My 93 year old Mum can't even get a health card, and yes we do protect the weak. Do you sponge the system lionking?
Old Bob Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 649

9th June 2009, 03:08 PM	#27
Old Bob Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 649	Cat got your tongue? lionking. Water shortage in western USA is and will affect Australia by causing price rises in food(20% of USA food was grown there) as this year is shaping up for starvation world wide. As much as we wish this possibility wrong I think we are a long way from the bottom, no signs of improvement.
Old Bob Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 649