Have You Ever Been Scamed Buying A Magic Product?

Lavie Enrose · 4th December 2003, 12:39 PM

Brown posted this in another thread, but it got me thinking, so I decided to start a new thread on this subject. Here is the quote from, Brown:

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown
My comments about video were prompted by the fact that I recently "built" a magic item that looks like a normal, everyday item but has a secret gimmick that alows the item to do something bizarre. When I saw the magic item demonstrated on television, the secret gimmick was absolutely invisible. Even if you knew where to look, you couldn't see it. But when I built the item myself, I found that the secret gimmick wasn't all that hard to see, and a live observer could quickly spot it. The trick with this item, I concluded, is one that looks great on video but not so great in real life.

Brown,

Do you feel you were scamed by purchasing this magic product?

We all have bought magic tricks that we found were a waste of money when we tried them after we bought them because they were just bad tricks. But I find it hard to believe the seller of this magic product did not know that it would not 'work' if performed live.

Edit: I should add for those not familar with purchasing magic tricks, it is usually not possible to return a tried magic trick for a refund because the trick has been learned. Usually, you can only exchange a defective trick for the same trick.

NoZed Avenger · 4th December 2003, 02:33 PM

With apologies to Charlie Brown:

Of all the areas where caveat emptor applies, magic shops are the caveat emptoriest.

Lavie Enrose · 4th December 2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NoZed Avenger
With apologies to Charlie Brown:

Of all the areas where caveat emptor applies, magic shops are the caveat emptoriest.

Very true.

Brown · 4th December 2003, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lavie Enrose
Do you feel you were scamed by purchasing this magic product?

No, not really. This one trick I mentioned was part of a package of tricks. Most of the tricks in the package were pretty lame, but there were one or two really good ones.

This gimmicked item was a "make it yourself" item, and there is no question that the seller of the package touted the gimmicked item as one of the best tricks in the package. The trick looks swell from ten feet away, but it was advertised as a "close-up" trick, even though it does not stand up to close scrutiny.

Many, many years ago, however, I did get scammed by an overpriced piece of magic apparatus. I was a kid and didn't have much money, and this trick took a good chunk of my disposable savings. When I got the trick home and saw the apparatus, I realized that the trick was unbelievably lame. The apparatus used a technique that was NOT used by professional magicians to achieve a similar effect. The secret was transparently obvious, and the apparatus only worked in one way... and even then, it didn't work all that well.

Later that same year, I got a Christmas present from my cousin: a piece of magic apparatus (a different apparatus) made by the very same company. I assumed (having already been severely disappointed by this company) that this trick was worthless as well, and threw the apparatus in a drawer and forgot about it. But about ten years later, I realized that professional magicians (including Randi, Penn and Teller) DO use this apparatus in their acts to great effect! (Randi used it on the "Tonight Show," and Penn and Teller used it on "Don't Try This At Home.") I have since retrieved this prop from the drawer and have had a great time using it.

bignickel · 17th December 2003, 11:38 AM

Well:
1. I'm not a magician, more of a magic afficiando
2. My dad bought the trick for less than $5, and gave it to me

This trick was called 'keybender' and it's trick was... well, you know, to bend keys with 'your mind' etc.

Well, I got a bunch of crap keys from a hardware store to practice on.

I haven't bent one yet.

I'm not even sure the governor of California could use the gimmick to bend keys, so much force is needed. Either that, or you need special keys (and the little booklet mentions nothing about them).

epepke · 20th December 2003, 05:55 AM

This is one reason I dislike the "don't give away secrets" code of honor schtick. Back when kids could buy magic tricks for a nickel, that was one thing. Now that they have to shell out twenty bucks for a badly xeroxed piece of paper and a badly made piece of equipment, it's much harder to justify.

thatguywhojuggles · 22nd December 2003, 09:35 AM

What kills me about magic tricks that you buy are the instructions that come with them. It's hard to believe that someone clever enough to come up with some of these tricks has such poor writing skills.

Brown · 22nd December 2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thatguywhojuggles
What kills me about magic tricks that you buy are the instructions that come with them. It's hard to believe that someone clever enough to come up with some of these tricks has such poor writing skills.

There have been many times when I have read the "secret" behind a trick, or watched the trick "explained" on video, and could not figure out how the trick was done.

For example, when I was a kid, I got a magic book from my sister. One of the tricks in the book was a coin trick, and to this day I have no idea how to do that trick. The procedure described in the book makes no sense.

There's another trick ("taught" on video by a prominent professional magician) that escapes me. I watched his video a couple dozen times and tried to duplicate what he was doing, but was unsuccessful. Eventually, I just gave up. Plain and simple, the trick did not work as explained. (I suspect that the editors of the video edited out at least one crucial step.)

Another trick ("taught" by the late Bill Bixby during a series of magical shows) was frustrating because Bill explained the trick in a hurry and the camera did not show the secret. After a long time experimenting, I figured out the trick on my own (and I'm glad I did... it is a good one).

Lavie Enrose · 22nd December 2003, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown
For example, when I was a kid, I got a magic book from my sister. One of the tricks in the book was a coin trick, and to this day I have no idea how to do that trick. The procedure described in the book makes no sense.

That reminds me of the opening paragraph to the soda can trick in the book, Penn And Teller: How To Play In Traffic.

Yahweh · 22nd December 2003, 10:53 PM

There is a "Spiritual Healing" shop a little ways away (about a 20 minute drive), I've been thinking of going there and buying something like healing stone or a crystal ball... just for fun.

Hey, some of those healing stones are really pretty and make good gifts...

richardm · 6th January 2004, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh
There is a "Spiritual Healing" shop a little ways away (about a 20 minute drive), I've been thinking of going there and buying something like healing stone or a crystal ball... just for fun.

Hey, some of those healing stones are really pretty and make good gifts...

Yep. Take a D-Lite with you. Idly pick up the crystals and put them down. For one of them, use the D-Lite, and then put the crystal down disinterestedly as though nothing had happened. Listen for gibbering noises from other persons in shop.

Soapy Sam · 6th January 2004, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thatguywhojuggles
What kills me about magic tricks that you buy are the instructions that come with them. It's hard to believe that someone clever enough to come up with some of these tricks has such poor writing skills.

I have often thought the same about computer software help files.

Brown · 7th January 2004, 07:38 AM

I recently saw a show that included a feature about people selling magic tricks. The salesmen (yes, all men) would typically give demonstrations of the tricks they were selling.

Some of the demonstrations and tricks were pretty good. Others were not.

One of the presenters showed a trick that required no skill to perform. The trick was all right, but not all that great. It was obvious that the trick was based upon a prop.

When asked how much the trick cost, the presenter answered: $25. That was ridiculous! I could easily build the prop myself in less than an hour using materials I already have in my house. Anyone who paid $25 for that trick would feel cheated.

Another presenter showed a trick that required some skill to perform, and was really a pretty good trick. This trick included a prop that I could not make at home. The price for this trick was $10. This price seemed much more reasonable.

Brown · 21st January 2004, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by me
I recently saw a show that included a feature about people selling magic tricks. The salesmen (yes, all men) would typically give demonstrations of the tricks they were selling.

Some of the demonstrations and tricks were pretty good. Others were not.

One of the presenters showed a trick that required no skill to perform. The trick was all right, but not all that great. It was obvious that the trick was based upon a prop.

When asked how much the trick cost, the presenter answered: $25. That was ridiculous! I could easily build the prop myself in less than an hour using materials I already have in my house. Anyone who paid $25 for that trick would feel cheated.

While in Vegas, I happened to find myself at the magicians convention. There were at least two rooms devoted to the sale of magic tricks. One of the tricks offered for sale used the prop that I mentioned above, but it wasn't selling for $25. Rather, it was on sale for nearly twice that amount!

Also while in Vegas, I bought some magical props at local magic stores in the various hotels/casinos. There was one particular trick that I rather liked, but it was being performed in a slightly darkened room (all of the magic stores present their tricks under slightly darkened conditions). Before I bought the trick, I asked the gentleman presenting it two questions: (1) Can it be performed close up, under very close scrutiny? (2) Can it be performed in bright light, such as the light in a hotel conference room? I was assured that the answer to both questions was "yes." So I bought the trick, thinking I could perform it at TAM2.

The honest answer to both questions should have been "no." I discovered that the more ambient light that you have available, the more distance you need to have between yourself and the spectators. The trick cannot be performed close up under well-lit or sunshine conditions. Even when lighting is dimmed, the trick is risky if performed close up.

I did not perform the trick at TAM2, because controlling the distance from the spectators would be difficult. (I did perform some other close-up magic at TAM2, but these were effects that can withstand very close scrutiny under good lighting conditions.)

Now, the trick I bought is still a pretty good trick, and on the whole, I'm glad I bought it. It just is not a great close-up trick, and the questions I had for the presenter were directly bearing upon that question. (Mr. Lance Burton, please take note. It was in the magic shop next to your theatre in which this incident occurred.)

Voob · 21st January 2004, 06:41 PM

Brown, I'm curious about the effect you bought. What is it called?

Brown · 31st August 2010, 03:20 PM

I came across this thread recently, and decided it was worth a bump.

Some of the effects I discussed here I remember well. Others I don't know what the hell I was referrring to. One of the props in one of my tales (I'm not saying which one) was a D-Lite, mentioned by richardm. (My favorite trick with this prop is to remove the red light on the underside of my computer mouse. Those of you familiar with computer mice might be saying, "Wait, you can't take that light out of the mouse ....") Another one of the props was "Scotch and Soda." Another was "The self-folding dollar bill." Another was a "rising card" apparatus. Still another was the classic thumb tip.

The Bill Bixby trick I mentioned is commonly known as the jumping rubber band trick.

I have to say that there are some tricks that I originally thought were weak, obvious or just plain stupid, and I felt like a sap for putting out money to buy them. Yet later, I had a change of heart. I found that some of the tricks can be combined with other tricks, with a result that is better than if the tricks are presented separately. (One of Banachek's miracles is of this type.) And I also found that some of the problems were not so much with the tricks themselves, but with the patter that came with them.

For example, there was a certain card trick in which the patter was built around removing the jokers from the deck, and under the pretense of removing the jokers, the performer would would cut the deck at a particular spot. This patter was drop-dead stupid, because telling the audience "Oh, I forgot to remove the jokers" was like telling them to look at the cards right at the time you wanted their attention to be misdirected from the cards. It never occurred to me to try to misdirect the audience with some other plausible explanation for handling. Later, I developed a plausible explanation, and to this day, there is a trick I perform with a card cut right under the noses of the spectators, and they never even notice it.

Without giving the secret away, I make some sort of suspicious move with my hand (which usually gets their attention and causes a reaction). I then basically say to the spectators, "You probably think I did a little something funny there. Well, I'll prove to you that I didn't." And when I prove it, that's when I do it. Curiously, when the audience is satisfied that you haven't done any funny stuff, that can be a good time to get away with doing funny stuff. (Bob Sheets does a lot of tricks that use this principle.)

firecoins · 1st September 2010, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Brown

One of the presenters showed a trick that required no skill to perform. The trick was all right, but not all that great. It was obvious that the trick was based upon a prop.

When asked how much the trick cost, the presenter answered: $25. That was ridiculous! I could easily build the prop myself in less than an hour using materials I already have in my house. Anyone who paid $25 for that trick would feel cheated.
.

ITS A MAGIC SHOP! They sell props! Thats what they are suppossed to do.

I can make an invisible deck at home. I don't need to spend $11 to buy one. But I was unaware of the trick when I first became a magician and I bought alot of props. Now I do mostly sleight of hand. I don't go to the magic shop much.

Brown · 1st September 2010, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by firecoins

ITS A MAGIC SHOP! They sell props! Thats what they are suppossed to do.

True, but a strong point of most tricks is to make it look like there is nothing special.

If a performer were to borrow a coin and then say, "Now, if I take my magic paddle from my pocket...", the audience would immediately suspect the paddle is somehow gimmicked, because who in the world carries around a paddle in his pocket? So even if it's a decent trick, the audience is still going to suspect some funny business with the apparatus, even if they don't know what the funny business could be. And that vitiates the impact of the trick.

In the interest of full disclosure, I don't remember what the apparatus actually was. (I don't think it was a paddle.)

As you say, the magic shop may be good for the occasional prop (coin shells, for example, can be very useful as props, and it's hard to make them at home) but some of the best tricks are the ones that can be performed with borrowed apparatus, like a borrowed deck. Harry Lorayne, for example, often spouted that a card trick loses half of its effectiveness if it is performed with the performer's deck, because the audience will suspect that the deck is gaffed in some way. That's why Harry always performed with borrowed decks.

A word about salespeople at magic shops: Like all occupations and human endeavors, there are some who are good at what they do and some that are not so good. I've met salesmen who really know their tricks, including the up-sides and down-sides, and who perform them well. Some of the best may even deter a buyer from buying a trick that isn't right for the buyer. But I've also encountered salesmen who are more interested in a sale than in anything else, and who knowingly or unknowingly provide false information about an effect: You can do it close-up! You can do it surrounded! Everything is examinable! This works with a borrowed quarter! No sleight-of-hand is needed! Easy reset! No advance preparation! These salesmen are excellent in illustrating the distinction between misdirection and outright lying.

Stray Cat · 1st September 2010, 07:03 PM

When I started learning magic seriously, I bought gaffed decks, props and such like.
It's an easy way to start performing and building an interest (and an easy way to collect a drawer full of rubbish that you will never use).
I soon found the limitations of those items though and got to learning real techniques, moves and principals. These can be developed and used in so many ways with so many items (borrowed or not) and at times I've even done kind of improv magic where I just make stuff up on the spot using the skills and moves I have learned.

I haven't been to a magic shop for over two years and that was only to get a refill for an ITR.

marplots · 2nd September 2010, 03:49 AM

I don't know if this counts as a scam or not but lately, I've noticed that a lot of the demos for DVDs on close-up show things that work well for a single shot camera angle but wouldn't work for beans in real life.

I recently got some rubberband stuff and absolutely couldn't get an angle that didn't burn it if there was anyone with binocular vision watching. Really looks sharp on the video though.

4th December 2003, 12:39 PM	#1
Lavie Enrose Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,952	Have You Ever Been Scamed Buying A Magic Product? Brown posted this in another thread, but it got me thinking, so I decided to start a new thread on this subject. Here is the quote from, Brown: Quote: Originally posted by Brown My comments about video were prompted by the fact that I recently "built" a magic item that looks like a normal, everyday item but has a secret gimmick that alows the item to do something bizarre. When I saw the magic item demonstrated on television, the secret gimmick was absolutely invisible. Even if you knew where to look, you couldn't see it. But when I built the item myself, I found that the secret gimmick wasn't all that hard to see, and a live observer could quickly spot it. The trick with this item, I concluded, is one that looks great on video but not so great in real life. Brown, Do you feel you were scamed by purchasing this magic product? We all have bought magic tricks that we found were a waste of money when we tried them after we bought them because they were just bad tricks. But I find it hard to believe the seller of this magic product did not know that it would not 'work' if performed live. Edit: I should add for those not familar with purchasing magic tricks, it is usually not possible to return a tried magic trick for a refund because the trick has been learned. Usually, you can only exchange a defective trick for the same trick.

4th December 2003, 02:33 PM	#2
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 11,313	With apologies to Charlie Brown: Of all the areas where caveat emptor applies, magic shops are the caveat emptoriest.
	__________________ [This Space Available. PM for Rates.]

4th December 2003, 08:16 PM	#4
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,177	Quote: Originally posted by Lavie Enrose Do you feel you were scamed by purchasing this magic product? No, not really. This one trick I mentioned was part of a package of tricks. Most of the tricks in the package were pretty lame, but there were one or two really good ones. This gimmicked item was a "make it yourself" item, and there is no question that the seller of the package touted the gimmicked item as one of the best tricks in the package. The trick looks swell from ten feet away, but it was advertised as a "close-up" trick, even though it does not stand up to close scrutiny. Many, many years ago, however, I did get scammed by an overpriced piece of magic apparatus. I was a kid and didn't have much money, and this trick took a good chunk of my disposable savings. When I got the trick home and saw the apparatus, I realized that the trick was unbelievably lame. The apparatus used a technique that was NOT used by professional magicians to achieve a similar effect. The secret was transparently obvious, and the apparatus only worked in one way... and even then, it didn't work all that well. Later that same year, I got a Christmas present from my cousin: a piece of magic apparatus (a different apparatus) made by the very same company. I assumed (having already been severely disappointed by this company) that this trick was worthless as well, and threw the apparatus in a drawer and forgot about it. But about ten years later, I realized that professional magicians (including Randi, Penn and Teller) DO use this apparatus in their acts to great effect! (Randi used it on the "Tonight Show," and Penn and Teller used it on "Don't Try This At Home.") I have since retrieved this prop from the drawer and have had a great time using it.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

17th December 2003, 11:38 AM	#5
bignickel Mad Mod Poet God Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,727	Well: 1. I'm not a magician, more of a magic afficiando 2. My dad bought the trick for less than $5, and gave it to me This trick was called 'keybender' and it's trick was... well, you know, to bend keys with 'your mind' etc. Well, I got a bunch of crap keys from a hardware store to practice on. I haven't bent one yet. I'm not even sure the governor of California could use the gimmick to bend keys, so much force is needed. Either that, or you need special keys (and the little booklet mentions nothing about them).
	__________________ "You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real. I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that." - Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone

20th December 2003, 05:55 AM	#6
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	This is one reason I dislike the "don't give away secrets" code of honor schtick. Back when kids could buy magic tricks for a nickel, that was one thing. Now that they have to shell out twenty bucks for a badly xeroxed piece of paper and a badly made piece of equipment, it's much harder to justify.
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950

4th December 2003, 04:17 PM	#3
Lavie Enrose Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,952	Quote: Originally posted by NoZed Avenger With apologies to Charlie Brown: Of all the areas where caveat emptor applies, magic shops are the caveat emptoriest. Very true.

22nd December 2003, 09:35 AM	#7
thatguywhojuggles Resident Juggler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 1,338	What kills me about magic tricks that you buy are the instructions that come with them. It's hard to believe that someone clever enough to come up with some of these tricks has such poor writing skills.
	__________________ \/\/ALTER Juggler-Artist-Atheist My Portfolio/ResumÃ© "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." -- Seneca the Younger (4? B.C. - 65 A.D.) "A lie goes half way around the world before the truth has a chance to get his pants on." - Winston Churchill.

22nd December 2003, 11:00 AM	#8
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,177	Quote: Originally posted by thatguywhojuggles What kills me about magic tricks that you buy are the instructions that come with them. It's hard to believe that someone clever enough to come up with some of these tricks has such poor writing skills. There have been many times when I have read the "secret" behind a trick, or watched the trick "explained" on video, and could not figure out how the trick was done. For example, when I was a kid, I got a magic book from my sister. One of the tricks in the book was a coin trick, and to this day I have no idea how to do that trick. The procedure described in the book makes no sense. There's another trick ("taught" on video by a prominent professional magician) that escapes me. I watched his video a couple dozen times and tried to duplicate what he was doing, but was unsuccessful. Eventually, I just gave up. Plain and simple, the trick did not work as explained. (I suspect that the editors of the video edited out at least one crucial step.) Another trick ("taught" by the late Bill Bixby during a series of magical shows) was frustrating because Bill explained the trick in a hurry and the camera did not show the secret. After a long time experimenting, I figured out the trick on my own (and I'm glad I did... it is a good one).
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

22nd December 2003, 10:37 PM	#9
Lavie Enrose Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,952	Quote: Originally posted by Brown For example, when I was a kid, I got a magic book from my sister. One of the tricks in the book was a coin trick, and to this day I have no idea how to do that trick. The procedure described in the book makes no sense. That reminds me of the opening paragraph to the soda can trick in the book, Penn And Teller: How To Play In Traffic.

22nd December 2003, 10:53 PM	#10
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029	There is a "Spiritual Healing" shop a little ways away (about a 20 minute drive), I've been thinking of going there and buying something like healing stone or a crystal ball... just for fun. Hey, some of those healing stones are really pretty and make good gifts...
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029

6th January 2004, 09:08 AM	#11
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Quote: Originally posted by Yahweh There is a "Spiritual Healing" shop a little ways away (about a 20 minute drive), I've been thinking of going there and buying something like healing stone or a crystal ball... just for fun. Hey, some of those healing stones are really pretty and make good gifts... Yep. Take a D-Lite with you. Idly pick up the crystals and put them down. For one of them, use the D-Lite, and then put the crystal down disinterestedly as though nothing had happened. Listen for gibbering noises from other persons in shop.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

6th January 2004, 11:02 AM	#12
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Quote: Originally posted by thatguywhojuggles What kills me about magic tricks that you buy are the instructions that come with them. It's hard to believe that someone clever enough to come up with some of these tricks has such poor writing skills. I have often thought the same about computer software help files.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

7th January 2004, 07:38 AM	#13
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,177	I recently saw a show that included a feature about people selling magic tricks. The salesmen (yes, all men) would typically give demonstrations of the tricks they were selling. Some of the demonstrations and tricks were pretty good. Others were not. One of the presenters showed a trick that required no skill to perform. The trick was all right, but not all that great. It was obvious that the trick was based upon a prop. When asked how much the trick cost, the presenter answered: $25. That was ridiculous! I could easily build the prop myself in less than an hour using materials I already have in my house. Anyone who paid $25 for that trick would feel cheated. Another presenter showed a trick that required some skill to perform, and was really a pretty good trick. This trick included a prop that I could not make at home. The price for this trick was $10. This price seemed much more reasonable.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

21st January 2004, 11:15 AM	#14
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,177	Quote: Originally posted by me I recently saw a show that included a feature about people selling magic tricks. The salesmen (yes, all men) would typically give demonstrations of the tricks they were selling. Some of the demonstrations and tricks were pretty good. Others were not. One of the presenters showed a trick that required no skill to perform. The trick was all right, but not all that great. It was obvious that the trick was based upon a prop. When asked how much the trick cost, the presenter answered: $25. That was ridiculous! I could easily build the prop myself in less than an hour using materials I already have in my house. Anyone who paid $25 for that trick would feel cheated. While in Vegas, I happened to find myself at the magicians convention. There were at least two rooms devoted to the sale of magic tricks. One of the tricks offered for sale used the prop that I mentioned above, but it wasn't selling for $25. Rather, it was on sale for nearly twice that amount! Also while in Vegas, I bought some magical props at local magic stores in the various hotels/casinos. There was one particular trick that I rather liked, but it was being performed in a slightly darkened room (all of the magic stores present their tricks under slightly darkened conditions). Before I bought the trick, I asked the gentleman presenting it two questions: (1) Can it be performed close up, under very close scrutiny? (2) Can it be performed in bright light, such as the light in a hotel conference room? I was assured that the answer to both questions was "yes." So I bought the trick, thinking I could perform it at TAM2. The honest answer to both questions should have been "no." I discovered that the more ambient light that you have available, the more distance you need to have between yourself and the spectators. The trick cannot be performed close up under well-lit or sunshine conditions. Even when lighting is dimmed, the trick is risky if performed close up. I did not perform the trick at TAM2, because controlling the distance from the spectators would be difficult. (I did perform some other close-up magic at TAM2, but these were effects that can withstand very close scrutiny under good lighting conditions.) Now, the trick I bought is still a pretty good trick, and on the whole, I'm glad I bought it. It just is not a great close-up trick, and the questions I had for the presenter were directly bearing upon that question. (Mr. Lance Burton, please take note. It was in the magic shop next to your theatre in which this incident occurred.)
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

21st January 2004, 06:41 PM	#15
Voob Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 316	Brown, I'm curious about the effect you bought. What is it called?
Voob Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 316

31st August 2010, 03:20 PM	#16
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,177	I came across this thread recently, and decided it was worth a bump. Some of the effects I discussed here I remember well. Others I don't know what the hell I was referrring to. One of the props in one of my tales (I'm not saying which one) was a D-Lite, mentioned by richardm. (My favorite trick with this prop is to remove the red light on the underside of my computer mouse. Those of you familiar with computer mice might be saying, "Wait, you can't take that light out of the mouse ....") Another one of the props was "Scotch and Soda." Another was "The self-folding dollar bill." Another was a "rising card" apparatus. Still another was the classic thumb tip. The Bill Bixby trick I mentioned is commonly known as the jumping rubber band trick. I have to say that there are some tricks that I originally thought were weak, obvious or just plain stupid, and I felt like a sap for putting out money to buy them. Yet later, I had a change of heart. I found that some of the tricks can be combined with other tricks, with a result that is better than if the tricks are presented separately. (One of Banachek's miracles is of this type.) And I also found that some of the problems were not so much with the tricks themselves, but with the patter that came with them. For example, there was a certain card trick in which the patter was built around removing the jokers from the deck, and under the pretense of removing the jokers, the performer would would cut the deck at a particular spot. This patter was drop-dead stupid, because telling the audience "Oh, I forgot to remove the jokers" was like telling them to look at the cards right at the time you wanted their attention to be misdirected from the cards. It never occurred to me to try to misdirect the audience with some other plausible explanation for handling. Later, I developed a plausible explanation, and to this day, there is a trick I perform with a card cut right under the noses of the spectators, and they never even notice it. Without giving the secret away, I make some sort of suspicious move with my hand (which usually gets their attention and causes a reaction). I then basically say to the spectators, "You probably think I did a little something funny there. Well, I'll prove to you that I didn't." And when I prove it, that's when I do it. Curiously, when the audience is satisfied that you haven't done any funny stuff, that can be a good time to get away with doing funny stuff. (Bob Sheets does a lot of tricks that use this principle.)
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

1st September 2010, 11:43 AM	#17
firecoins Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nyack, NY Posts: 3,191	Originally Posted by Brown One of the presenters showed a trick that required no skill to perform. The trick was all right, but not all that great. It was obvious that the trick was based upon a prop. When asked how much the trick cost, the presenter answered: $25. That was ridiculous! I could easily build the prop myself in less than an hour using materials I already have in my house. Anyone who paid $25 for that trick would feel cheated. . ITS A MAGIC SHOP! They sell props! Thats what they are suppossed to do. I can make an invisible deck at home. I don't need to spend $11 to buy one. But I was unaware of the trick when I first became a magician and I bought alot of props. Now I do mostly sleight of hand. I don't go to the magic shop much.
	__________________ NY Paramedic, skeptic, 9/11/01 Reality-ist. I am both right wing nut and left wing lunatic. Deal with it.

1st September 2010, 02:41 PM	#18
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,177	Originally Posted by firecoins ITS A MAGIC SHOP! They sell props! Thats what they are suppossed to do. True, but a strong point of most tricks is to make it look like there is nothing special. If a performer were to borrow a coin and then say, "Now, if I take my magic paddle from my pocket...", the audience would immediately suspect the paddle is somehow gimmicked, because who in the world carries around a paddle in his pocket? So even if it's a decent trick, the audience is still going to suspect some funny business with the apparatus, even if they don't know what the funny business could be. And that vitiates the impact of the trick. In the interest of full disclosure, I don't remember what the apparatus actually was. (I don't think it was a paddle.) As you say, the magic shop may be good for the occasional prop (coin shells, for example, can be very useful as props, and it's hard to make them at home) but some of the best tricks are the ones that can be performed with borrowed apparatus, like a borrowed deck. Harry Lorayne, for example, often spouted that a card trick loses half of its effectiveness if it is performed with the performer's deck, because the audience will suspect that the deck is gaffed in some way. That's why Harry always performed with borrowed decks. A word about salespeople at magic shops: Like all occupations and human endeavors, there are some who are good at what they do and some that are not so good. I've met salesmen who really know their tricks, including the up-sides and down-sides, and who perform them well. Some of the best may even deter a buyer from buying a trick that isn't right for the buyer. But I've also encountered salesmen who are more interested in a sale than in anything else, and who knowingly or unknowingly provide false information about an effect: You can do it close-up! You can do it surrounded! Everything is examinable! This works with a borrowed quarter! No sleight-of-hand is needed! Easy reset! No advance preparation! These salesmen are excellent in illustrating the distinction between misdirection and outright lying.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

1st September 2010, 07:03 PM	#19
Stray Cat Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Land That Time Forgot Posts: 6,510	When I started learning magic seriously, I bought gaffed decks, props and such like. It's an easy way to start performing and building an interest (and an easy way to collect a drawer full of rubbish that you will never use). I soon found the limitations of those items though and got to learning real techniques, moves and principals. These can be developed and used in so many ways with so many items (borrowed or not) and at times I've even done kind of improv magic where I just make stuff up on the spot using the skills and moves I have learned. I haven't been to a magic shop for over two years and that was only to get a refill for an ITR.
	__________________ It's only my madness that stops me from going insane!

2nd September 2010, 03:49 AM	#20
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,416	I don't know if this counts as a scam or not but lately, I've noticed that a lot of the demos for DVDs on close-up show things that work well for a single shot camera angle but wouldn't work for beans in real life. I recently got some rubberband stuff and absolutely couldn't get an angle that didn't burn it if there was anyone with binocular vision watching. Really looks sharp on the video though.
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,416