Islam and Mohammed splitting the moon.

ricbritain · 2nd July 2009, 10:07 AM

I have been repeatedly confronted and challenged by Muslims with what they consider to be indisputable evidence of the status of mohammed and the greatness of Islam. This evidence is the 'story' that mohammed split the moon in half and then rejoined it. Obviously this is nonsense but it is re-enforced with very clear pictures which are available on the net (youtube) which show what could pass as a split or at least a long canyon. This really is extremely annoying to hear over and over again and to be held as something fantastic. Muslims also point to a single vague line in the Quran as stating this ''miracle'.

I just wondered if anyone else has encountered this and if they know anything about it? I could not find anything much on the net to debunk it, not that it realy needs it or is deserving of debunking.

Doctor Evil · 2nd July 2009, 10:21 AM

Never heard of it. However, it is easy to debunk according to the information you gave, as there is no actual evidence.

Whatever left is a prime example of circular logic, namely, that the miracle must be true because the Quran says so, and the Quran is true because of the miracle.

Safe-Keeper · 2nd July 2009, 10:37 AM

Sounds about as credible as God stopping the Sun in her tracks without causing some major natural disaster.

Ashles · 2nd July 2009, 10:56 AM

I think there should be a law that states

"If your evidence for any claim comes entirely from Youtube, you lose."

TimCallahan · 2nd July 2009, 11:18 AM

When I read the Qur'an I found a sarah called Surah al-Qamar ("the moon"). It's surah #54. Its opening line is: "The hour draws near; the moon is split in two."

A footnote says of this verse: "One of the signs of the Day of Judgment. The Arabic uses the past tense, as if that day were already here, to help the reader / listener imagine how it will be. Some traditional commentators hold te view that this describes an actual event at the time of the Prophet, but it clearly refers to the end of the world."

This edition of the Qur'an is from Oxford World's Classics, and the transltor is M.A.S. Abdel Haleem.

Safe-Keeper · 2nd July 2009, 11:35 AM

So it's like Christians thinking Revelation is something that's already has happened, and reinterpreting everything from stars getting destroyed to the earth burning as metaphors.

TimCallahan · 2nd July 2009, 11:58 AM

I was a bit curious about the feature supposedly showing the moon's split. While I found a number of Islamic websites with pictures of the rift, they notably did not show the entire face of the moon. I soon found out why. The structure in question is the Ariadaeus Rille, also called te "rocky belt." It is an impressive geographical structure, extending 225 Km. or 140 miles. By contrast, the diameter of the moon, which a spilt in the moon would have to at least roughly equal, is 3,475 Km. or 2959 miles. This makes the Ariadaeus Rille about only 4 to 5% as long as the moon's diameter or only between 4 and 5% as long as it should be to demonstrate the moon had once been split in two. Thus, even allowing for supernatural happenings, those claiming that this structure proves Muhammad split the moon in two are flat out wrong: Q.E.D.

TimCallahan · 3rd July 2009, 07:26 PM

. . . and another thing: The Grand Canyon is 277 miles long, compared to the 140 mile length of the Ariadaeus Rille. It shows how absolutely bogus these Islamic fundamentalist websites are.

MG1962 · 3rd July 2009, 07:56 PM

I wonder if the real meaning behind what they are talking about is this, or some similar earlier event.

From Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_lunar_phenomenon

However I can remember discussions of this event back in pre internet days

On June 18, 1178, five or more monks from Canterbury reported an upheaval on the moon shortly after sunset. "There was a bright new moon, and as usual in that phase its horns were tilted toward the east; and suddenly the upper horn split in two. From the midpoint of this division a flaming torch sprang up, spewing out, over a considerable distance, fire, hot coals, and sparks. Meanwhile the body of the moon which was below writhed, as it were, in anxiety, and, to put it in the words of those who reported it to me and saw it with their own eyes, the moon throbbed like a wounded snake. Afterwards it resumed its proper state. This phenomenon was repeated a dozen times or more, the flame assuming various twisting shapes at random and then returning to normal. Then after these transformations the moon from horn to horn, that is along its whole length, took on a blackish appearance."[3][4] In 1976, Jack Hartung proposed that this described the formation of the Giordano Bruno crater.

Robster, FCD · 3rd July 2009, 10:51 PM

Interesting... Did any other cultures record this event?

FireGarden · 4th July 2009, 01:25 AM

Two suns in the sky, Omega sunset:
http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/sunmir2.htm

Ok, the sun doesn't look broken until the two images touch. Maybe there's a similar illusion involving the moon. Alternatively, the moon-splitting story may be just a story.

Wiki has quite a bit on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_of_the_moon

MG1962 · 4th July 2009, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Robster, FCD

Interesting... Did any other cultures record this event?

Not that I have ever heard. However given it was a New Moon setting over England, by the time the Moon was in view in Asia the party could have been over.

In the North America, the locals were not noted for writing stuff down, and in South America the vast majority of their writings were destroyed during the Spanish invasion

dlorde · 4th July 2009, 09:24 AM

Of course, the translators probably got it wrong, the original writings were probably referring to Iapetus (a moon of Saturn), which has quite clearly been split and rejoined (not very accurately). This naturally puts back the invention of the telescope quite a few years

Jigsaw_Psyche · 5th July 2009, 11:47 PM

Yep the moon rille pictures. Isn't it interesting how the Islamic sites always show the same sets of pictures of them? The ones where it appears that the split goes all the way around?

WikiIslam: Splitting of the moon 'miracle'

ricbritain · 6th July 2009, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by TimCallahan

I was a bit curious about the feature supposedly showing the moon's split. While I found a number of Islamic websites with pictures of the rift, they notably did not show the entire face of the moon. I soon found out why. The structure in question is the Ariadaeus Rille, also called te "rocky belt." It is an impressive geographical structure, extending 225 Km. or 140 miles. By contrast, the diameter of the moon, which a spilt in the moon would have to at least roughly equal, is 3,475 Km. or 2959 miles. This makes the Ariadaeus Rille about only 4 to 5% as long as the moon's diameter or only between 4 and 5% as long as it should be to demonstrate the moon had once been split in two. Thus, even allowing for supernatural happenings, those claiming that this structure proves Muhammad split the moon in two are flat out wrong: Q.E.D.

Thanks for that. I looked but couldn't find out what exactly it was. I will remember this and use it the next time it comes up in the idiotic conversations I have with these people daily. I'm 100% sure they will say this has been constructed by America to cover the truth but never mind.

Beerina · 6th July 2009, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by ricbritain

I have been repeatedly confronted and challenged by Muslims with what they consider to be indisputable evidence of the status of mohammed and the greatness of Islam. This evidence is the 'story' that mohammed split the moon in half and then rejoined it.

The Molecule Man, after having his eyes opened by Dr. Doom as to the true nature of his power, was able to reconstruct a galaxy and its planets, re-igniting all the stars.

Also Superman has punched moons in half, and has re-assembled planets as well. So have Green Lanterns.

Probably the single greatest "punch" in all of comics was when the Molecule Man "gathered up much of the spare energy in the multiverse" and blasted The Beyonder with a blast that would have "slagged a few billion dimensions", or entire universes. Mohammed, and Yahweh Himself, are no way near the top of the fictional character bad ass ranking list. One moon. One planet. Hehe, one universe. Pathetic.

Beerina · 6th July 2009, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Sounds about as credible as God stopping the Sun in her tracks without causing some major natural disaster.

Sci-Fi, including Star Trek, use a variation on force fields to achieve "normal" movement in high-g environments. It requires extremely fine-grained fields to control individual molecules and atoms, and computers to track it all to force them to continue to behave as if in a normal gravitational environment instead of hundreds, thousands, or millions of g.

I assume with enough computer horsepower and a big enough field emitting array, you or God could apply the same thing to an entire planet and keep it humming along even as the sun stopped w.r.t. Earth, otherwise causing gravitational havoc with the tectonic plates and earthquakes, if nothing else.

ToddH · 6th July 2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

The Molecule Man, after having his eyes opened by Dr. Doom as to the true nature of his power, was able to reconstruct a galaxy and its planets, re-igniting all the stars.

Also Superman has punched moons in half, and has re-assembled planets as well. So have Green Lanterns.

Probably the single greatest "punch" in all of comics was when the Molecule Man "gathered up much of the spare energy in the multiverse" and blasted The Beyonder with a blast that would have "slagged a few billion dimensions", or entire universes. Mohammed, and Yahweh Himself, are no way near the top of the fictional character bad ass ranking list. One moon. One planet. Hehe, one universe. Pathetic.

Yeah, but what if Yahweh had the Infinity Gauntlet? Would he subconsciously will himself to lose it much like Thanos did or would he use it to its fullest poential? And would the Living Tribunal interfere?

dlorde · 7th July 2009, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by ToddH

Yeah, but what if Yahweh had the Infinity Gauntlet? Would he subconsciously will himself to lose it much like Thanos did or would he use it to its fullest poential? And would the Living Tribunal interfere?

Good questions Todd - it shows you're taking this as seriously as it deserves...

Who knows what the Living Tribunal might do? I'm worried, Todd. Very worried.

Beerina · 8th July 2009, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by ToddH

Yeah, but what if Yahweh had the Infinity Gauntlet? Would he subconsciously will himself to lose it much like Thanos did or would he use it to its fullest poential? And would the Living Tribunal interfere?

"Infinity" is a gross exaggeration. It's badass -- in 1 universe. The energy for the mass in billions of universes of the same size is a darn sight larger.

2nd July 2009, 10:07 AM	#1
ricbritain Student Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 26	Islam and Mohammed splitting the moon. I have been repeatedly confronted and challenged by Muslims with what they consider to be indisputable evidence of the status of mohammed and the greatness of Islam. This evidence is the 'story' that mohammed split the moon in half and then rejoined it. Obviously this is nonsense but it is re-enforced with very clear pictures which are available on the net (youtube) which show what could pass as a split or at least a long canyon. This really is extremely annoying to hear over and over again and to be held as something fantastic. Muslims also point to a single vague line in the Quran as stating this ''miracle'. I just wondered if anyone else has encountered this and if they know anything about it? I could not find anything much on the net to debunk it, not that it realy needs it or is deserving of debunking.
ricbritain Student Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 26

2nd July 2009, 10:21 AM	#2
Doctor Evil Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Back home Posts: 1,966	Never heard of it. However, it is easy to debunk according to the information you gave, as there is no actual evidence. Whatever left is a prime example of circular logic, namely, that the miracle must be true because the Quran says so, and the Quran is true because of the miracle.
	__________________ "ut biberent, quando esse nollent " (if they will not eat, then they will drink) -- Publius Claudius Pulcher "In this universe, effect follows cause. I've complained about it but ... " -- House

2nd July 2009, 10:56 AM	#4
Ashles Pith Artist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The '80s Posts: 8,711	I think there should be a law that states "If your evidence for any claim comes entirely from Youtube, you lose."
	__________________ With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell No one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate - Ivars Peterson

2nd July 2009, 11:58 AM	#7
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,125	I was a bit curious about the feature supposedly showing the moon's split. While I found a number of Islamic websites with pictures of the rift, they notably did not show the entire face of the moon. I soon found out why. The structure in question is the Ariadaeus Rille, also called te "rocky belt." It is an impressive geographical structure, extending 225 Km. or 140 miles. By contrast, the diameter of the moon, which a spilt in the moon would have to at least roughly equal, is 3,475 Km. or 2959 miles. This makes the Ariadaeus Rille about only 4 to 5% as long as the moon's diameter or only between 4 and 5% as long as it should be to demonstrate the moon had once been split in two. Thus, even allowing for supernatural happenings, those claiming that this structure proves Muhammad split the moon in two are flat out wrong: Q.E.D.
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,125

3rd July 2009, 07:26 PM	#8
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,125	. . . and another thing: The Grand Canyon is 277 miles long, compared to the 140 mile length of the Ariadaeus Rille. It shows how absolutely bogus these Islamic fundamentalist websites are.
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,125

2nd July 2009, 10:37 AM	#3
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,109	Sounds about as credible as God stopping the Sun in her tracks without causing some major natural disaster.

2nd July 2009, 11:18 AM	#5
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,125	When I read the Qur'an I found a sarah called Surah al-Qamar ("the moon"). It's surah #54. Its opening line is: "The hour draws near; the moon is split in two." A footnote says of this verse: "One of the signs of the Day of Judgment. The Arabic uses the past tense, as if that day were already here, to help the reader / listener imagine how it will be. Some traditional commentators hold te view that this describes an actual event at the time of the Prophet, but it clearly refers to the end of the world." This edition of the Qur'an is from Oxford World's Classics, and the transltor is M.A.S. Abdel Haleem.
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,125

2nd July 2009, 11:35 AM	#6
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,109	So it's like Christians thinking Revelation is something that's already has happened, and reinterpreting everything from stars getting destroyed to the earth burning as metaphors.

3rd July 2009, 07:56 PM	#9
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	I wonder if the real meaning behind what they are talking about is this, or some similar earlier event. From Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_lunar_phenomenon However I can remember discussions of this event back in pre internet days On June 18, 1178, five or more monks from Canterbury reported an upheaval on the moon shortly after sunset. "There was a bright new moon, and as usual in that phase its horns were tilted toward the east; and suddenly the upper horn split in two. From the midpoint of this division a flaming torch sprang up, spewing out, over a considerable distance, fire, hot coals, and sparks. Meanwhile the body of the moon which was below writhed, as it were, in anxiety, and, to put it in the words of those who reported it to me and saw it with their own eyes, the moon throbbed like a wounded snake. Afterwards it resumed its proper state. This phenomenon was repeated a dozen times or more, the flame assuming various twisting shapes at random and then returning to normal. Then after these transformations the moon from horn to horn, that is along its whole length, took on a blackish appearance."[3][4] In 1976, Jack Hartung proposed that this described the formation of the Giordano Bruno crater.

3rd July 2009, 10:51 PM	#10
Robster, FCD Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 385	Interesting... Did any other cultures record this event?
	__________________ Power corrupts... But absolute power is even better! -- unknown If Allopathy is modern medicine, I would say Homoeopathy is post-modern medicine. -- "Dr." Nancy Malik

4th July 2009, 01:25 AM	#11
FireGarden Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Spannungsbogen -- without a visa Posts: 5,043	Two suns in the sky, Omega sunset: http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/sunmir2.htm Ok, the sun doesn't look broken until the two images touch. Maybe there's a similar illusion involving the moon. Alternatively, the moon-splitting story may be just a story. Wiki has quite a bit on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_of_the_moon
	__________________ When Americans talk about freedom, it’s our secular code word for salvation. There’s no salvation outside the church; there’s no freedom outside the American way of life. -- James Carroll B'tselem Tony Karon's blog

4th July 2009, 07:50 AM	#12
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Originally Posted by Robster, FCD Interesting... Did any other cultures record this event? Not that I have ever heard. However given it was a New Moon setting over England, by the time the Moon was in view in Asia the party could have been over. In the North America, the locals were not noted for writing stuff down, and in South America the vast majority of their writings were destroyed during the Spanish invasion

4th July 2009, 09:24 AM	#13
dlorde Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,646	Of course, the translators probably got it wrong, the original writings were probably referring to Iapetus (a moon of Saturn), which has quite clearly been split and rejoined (not very accurately). This naturally puts back the invention of the telescope quite a few years
dlorde Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,646

5th July 2009, 11:47 PM	#14
Jigsaw_Psyche Scholar Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 100	Yep the moon rille pictures. Isn't it interesting how the Islamic sites always show the same sets of pictures of them? The ones where it appears that the split goes all the way around? WikiIslam: Splitting of the moon 'miracle'
Jigsaw_Psyche Scholar Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 100

6th July 2009, 09:59 AM	#15
ricbritain Student Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 26	Originally Posted by TimCallahan I was a bit curious about the feature supposedly showing the moon's split. While I found a number of Islamic websites with pictures of the rift, they notably did not show the entire face of the moon. I soon found out why. The structure in question is the Ariadaeus Rille, also called te "rocky belt." It is an impressive geographical structure, extending 225 Km. or 140 miles. By contrast, the diameter of the moon, which a spilt in the moon would have to at least roughly equal, is 3,475 Km. or 2959 miles. This makes the Ariadaeus Rille about only 4 to 5% as long as the moon's diameter or only between 4 and 5% as long as it should be to demonstrate the moon had once been split in two. Thus, even allowing for supernatural happenings, those claiming that this structure proves Muhammad split the moon in two are flat out wrong: Q.E.D. Thanks for that. I looked but couldn't find out what exactly it was. I will remember this and use it the next time it comes up in the idiotic conversations I have with these people daily. I'm 100% sure they will say this has been constructed by America to cover the truth but never mind.
ricbritain Student Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 26

6th July 2009, 10:02 AM	#16
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by ricbritain I have been repeatedly confronted and challenged by Muslims with what they consider to be indisputable evidence of the status of mohammed and the greatness of Islam. This evidence is the 'story' that mohammed split the moon in half and then rejoined it. The Molecule Man, after having his eyes opened by Dr. Doom as to the true nature of his power, was able to reconstruct a galaxy and its planets, re-igniting all the stars. Also Superman has punched moons in half, and has re-assembled planets as well. So have Green Lanterns. Probably the single greatest "punch" in all of comics was when the Molecule Man "gathered up much of the spare energy in the multiverse" and blasted The Beyonder with a blast that would have "slagged a few billion dimensions", or entire universes. Mohammed, and Yahweh Himself, are no way near the top of the fictional character bad ass ranking list. One moon. One planet. Hehe, one universe. Pathetic.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

6th July 2009, 10:06 AM	#17
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper Sounds about as credible as God stopping the Sun in her tracks without causing some major natural disaster. Sci-Fi, including Star Trek, use a variation on force fields to achieve "normal" movement in high-g environments. It requires extremely fine-grained fields to control individual molecules and atoms, and computers to track it all to force them to continue to behave as if in a normal gravitational environment instead of hundreds, thousands, or millions of g. I assume with enough computer horsepower and a big enough field emitting array, you or God could apply the same thing to an entire planet and keep it humming along even as the sun stopped w.r.t. Earth, otherwise causing gravitational havoc with the tectonic plates and earthquakes, if nothing else.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

6th July 2009, 10:53 AM	#18
ToddH Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Heart of the bible belt Posts: 334	Originally Posted by Beerina The Molecule Man, after having his eyes opened by Dr. Doom as to the true nature of his power, was able to reconstruct a galaxy and its planets, re-igniting all the stars. Also Superman has punched moons in half, and has re-assembled planets as well. So have Green Lanterns. Probably the single greatest "punch" in all of comics was when the Molecule Man "gathered up much of the spare energy in the multiverse" and blasted The Beyonder with a blast that would have "slagged a few billion dimensions", or entire universes. Mohammed, and Yahweh Himself, are no way near the top of the fictional character bad ass ranking list. One moon. One planet. Hehe, one universe. Pathetic. Yeah, but what if Yahweh had the Infinity Gauntlet? Would he subconsciously will himself to lose it much like Thanos did or would he use it to its fullest poential? And would the Living Tribunal interfere?

7th July 2009, 04:09 PM	#19
dlorde Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,646	Originally Posted by ToddH Yeah, but what if Yahweh had the Infinity Gauntlet? Would he subconsciously will himself to lose it much like Thanos did or would he use it to its fullest poential? And would the Living Tribunal interfere? Good questions Todd - it shows you're taking this as seriously as it deserves... Who knows what the Living Tribunal might do? I'm worried, Todd. Very worried.
dlorde Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,646

8th July 2009, 10:57 AM	#20
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by ToddH Yeah, but what if Yahweh had the Infinity Gauntlet? Would he subconsciously will himself to lose it much like Thanos did or would he use it to its fullest poential? And would the Living Tribunal interfere? "Infinity" is a gross exaggeration. It's badass -- in 1 universe. The energy for the mass in billions of universes of the same size is a darn sight larger.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?