Just watched "Harold and Maude" on DVD...

Skeptic · 6th December 2003, 03:01 PM

... what the f--k was that movie all about???

epepke · 6th December 2003, 05:27 PM

Great movie; I'm surprised you didn't get it.

It's about embracing life.

shemp · 6th December 2003, 07:09 PM

What's it about? It's about 91 minutes long.

TruthSeeker · 6th December 2003, 07:43 PM

I love this movie. Especially Maude.

I think I'll rent it tomorrow.

Skeptic, what didn't you like about it?

Skeptic · 7th December 2003, 07:21 AM

I was writing tongue-in-cheek. Actually, I like this movie A LOT: great acting, original and interesting plot, etc.

I was merely noting that it is an absurdist fantasy, with its "social commentary" and "philosophical point" being (deliberately) over-the-top.

To my amazement, people try to look "through" the absurd fantasy into the "real message" of the movie... which is a bit like writing a theology book based on LIFE OF BRIAN.

Cleopatra · 7th December 2003, 12:09 PM

I don't know why I was thinking about "Harold and Maude" lately. I think it was because I read about a suicide of a young man.

I haven't seen the film, I have seen it as play in the theatre and I loved it. It's one of the most well-composed hymns to life and an accurate account of the irrational "phaenomenon" that is called "falling in love".

Another reason I loved it was because Maude reminds me of my grandmother.

When I saw this thread I searched Amazon to find a copy of the DVD but it's a region 1 dvd and I won't be able to see it. Pity.

Maybe we should start a thread about the movies we see on DVD so as to exchange ideas, opinions etc,etc.

epepke · 7th December 2003, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
To my amazement, people try to look "through" the absurd fantasy into the "real message" of the movie... which is a bit like writing a theology book based on LIFE OF BRIAN.

I have a friend who is an evangelical Christian, and he pointed out that Life of Brian was really quite accurate with respect to the growth industry of Messiahs around that time.

TruthSeeker · 7th December 2003, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by epepke

I have a friend who is an evangelical Christian, and he pointed out that Life of Brian was really quite accurate with respect to the growth industry of Messiahs around that time.

I used to know an evangelical who was forbidden (by his church) to watch Life of Brian...blasphemy, ya know?

Mark · 8th December 2003, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
I was writing tongue-in-cheek. Actually, I like this movie A LOT: great acting, original and interesting plot, etc.

I was merely noting that it is an absurdist fantasy, with its "social commentary" and "philosophical point" being (deliberately) over-the-top.

To my amazement, people try to look "through" the absurd fantasy into the "real message" of the movie... which is a bit like writing a theology book based on LIFE OF BRIAN.

Living life to the fullest is over the top? Why?

Skeptic · 11th December 2003, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark

Living life to the fullest is over the top? Why?

(WARNING: SPOILER ALERT!)

Well, it isn't, but when the two main protagonists for "living life to the fullest" are:

a). an immortal who repeatedly commits suicide unsuccesfully because he "enjoys being dead" and

b). a woman who kills herself on her 80th birthday because she doesn't like her age...

...I'd say the "live life to the fullest" message is tongue-in-cheek, a bit like Brian's "is it the secret of eternal life?".

Mark · 11th December 2003, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic

(WARNING: SPOILER ALERT!)

Well, it isn't, but when the two main protagonists for "living life to the fullest" are:

a). an immortal who repeatedly commits suicide unsuccesfully because he "enjoys being dead" and

b). a woman who kills herself on her 80th birthday because she doesn't like her age...

...I'd say the "live life to the fullest" message is tongue-in-cheek, a bit like Brian's "is it the secret of eternal life?".

Uh...I think you'd better watch it again. There is no "immortal" in the film; Harold fakes his death several times because he is afraid to live. (The self immolation scene is hysterical)

Maude certainly doesn't kill herself because she doesn't "like her age." She was a survivor of German concentration camps, for goodness sake! (A subtle point you may have missed, I grant you.) If you had ever been the caregiver for someone with Alzheimer's or Parkinsons (I have) you would understand the point better. There does come a point when clinging to life is like a miser clutching a pile of coins that he will never, ever use.

In the end, Harold goes off to live and be happy. Maude's legacy lives on through him. "Things grow and change and die and turn into something else," as Maude said to Harold in the field of daisys.

Cleopatra · 11th December 2003, 08:31 AM

Yeap, exactly as Mark said it

Harold is calling for people's real attention with those suicides of his, he grew up in a family that nobody taugh him anything really important, like how to love the trees, how to appreciate the starts and the sea. He commits those silly suicide attempts in order to attract his mother real attention who exhausts her love towards him just by spending money and looking for the best bride for him.

Maude on the other hand had seen everything. She had experienced the cruelest and the brightest side of human's nature, she talked to the trees, she adored the sea, she committed suicide just to let Harold live.

Does the film has the final scene in the cemetary where Harold plays saxophone to Maude's grave or this was the end at the theatrical version?

Mark · 11th December 2003, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Yeap, exactly as Mark said it

Harold is calling for people's real attention with those suicides of his, he grew up in a family that nobody taugh him anything really important, like how to love the trees, how to appreciate the starts and the sea. He commits those silly suicide attempts in order to attract his mother real attention who exhausts her love towards him just by spending money and looking for the best bride for him.

Maude on the other hand had seen everything. She had experienced the cruelest and the brightest side of human's nature, she talked to the trees, she adored the sea, she committed suicide just to let Harold live.

Does the film has the final scene in the cemetary where Harold plays saxophone to Maude's grave or this was the end at the theatrical version?

He plays the banjo (which Maude gave him) while looking down at his deliberately crashed Jaguar/hearse; he then walks off, still playing, dancing, and ready to live.

I don't think Maude killed herself so much for Harold's sake, as she did simply because it was time to go out with dignity. I do think her refusal to reconsider the decision was for Harold's sake. A rather fine distinction, I suppose...

Mark · 11th December 2003, 08:42 AM

Btw, did you see Bud Cort in the movie "Dogma?" (Another great film, btw) Wow...the years have not been particularly kind to ol' Harold. Great to see him working again, though.

Cleopatra · 11th December 2003, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark
He plays the banjo (which Maude gave him) while looking down at his deliberately crashed Jaguar/hearse; he then walks off, still playing, dancing, and ready to live.

I don't think Maude killed herself so much for Harold's sake, as she did simply because it was time to go out with dignity. I do think her refusal to reconsider the decision was for Harold's sake. A rather fine distinction, I suppose...

Arggggggg I want to see the film!!!!!!!!

Maybe you are right! It was time for her to go anyway and but it wouldn't be appropriate for a person at her age to be involved with such a young man. I think that Maude's character would find it inappropriate.

No, I haven't seen the film Dogma.

Mark · 11th December 2003, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleopatra

No, I haven't seen the film Dogma.

You must! Another very quirky, funny, enjoybale, thought provoking film. Also very crude (Hey, it's a Jay and Silent Bob film, after all).

Foofer · 11th December 2003, 09:57 AM

I loved Harold & Maude but I haven't seen it in a very long time. After reading this thread, I am really wanting to watch it again.

Dogma is very funny. A bit too pro-god for me, but definitely anti-religion.

TruthSeeker · 11th December 2003, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark
Btw, did you see Bud Cort in the movie "Dogma?" (Another great film, btw) Wow...the years have not been particularly kind to ol' Harold. Great to see him working again, though.

I didn't recognize him. Who did he play?

Foofer · 11th December 2003, 10:18 AM

He was the Earthly form that god took to play skee-ball. He was beaten up in the opening scene and spent the rest of the movie in a coma.

Mark · 11th December 2003, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TruthSeeker

I didn't recognize him. Who did he play?

"God." As the old man in the begining who got beaten into a coma.

Edited to add:
Hey, Foofer beat me to it!

TruthSeeker · 11th December 2003, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark

"God." As the old man in the begining who got beaten into a coma.

Edited to add:
Hey, Foofer beat me to it!

Thanks.

Skeptic · 12th December 2003, 06:58 PM

(AGAIN, SPOILER ALERT!)

Er, I still say it's a spoof. C'mon, people, when the uncle--Gen. MacArthur's "right hand man"--is missing his right hand?

When, as part of the treatment for hanging himself, he has to talk to this uncle... who tells him that "what this country needs is more Nathan Hales", saluting a picture of Hale with the noose around his neck?

As for "faking" his death, he mysteriously appears at the top of the cliff, holding a banjo, after the car he drives crashes into the shore. How about the suicide with the samurai sword, where his date, who copies him, of course DOES die?

C'mon, people... again, I LOVED the movie. It's quirky, original, very funny, and pokes fun at a lot of annoying things. But to take it seriously as a deep message about life...

epepke · 12th December 2003, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
(AGAIN, SPOILER ALERT!)

Er, I still say it's a spoof.

It's a burlesque, which is the kind of spoof with more serious intent than non-spoofs. C.f. Dr. Strangelove. Randy Newman, Andrew Dice Clay, Richard Pryor and Goldie Hawn in the 60's, Steppin Fetchitt, etc.

It must be hard to grok burlesque, because I notice that few people manage it.

Mark · 13th December 2003, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
(AGAIN, SPOILER ALERT!)

Er, I still say it's a spoof. C'mon, people, when the uncle--Gen. MacArthur's "right hand man"--is missing his right hand?

When, as part of the treatment for hanging himself, he has to talk to this uncle... who tells him that "what this country needs is more Nathan Hales", saluting a picture of Hale with the noose around his neck?

As for "faking" his death, he mysteriously appears at the top of the cliff, holding a banjo, after the car he drives crashes into the shore. How about the suicide with the samurai sword, where his date, who copies him, of course DOES die?

C'mon, people... again, I LOVED the movie. It's quirky, original, very funny, and pokes fun at a lot of annoying things. But to take it seriously as a deep message about life...

What it was spoofing was America's culture of death, by overstating the case. Strange how you could so totally miss the point of a movie like this...

What is also strange is that America as a culture seems to have come full circle. Sad, really.

RSLancastr · 13th December 2003, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
As for "faking" his death, he mysteriously appears at the top of the cliff, holding a banjo, after the car he drives crashes into the shore.

The same thing has been done in about a jillion movies. We are to assume that he jumped out in time. I agree that it could have been clearer. But again, after faking his suicide so many times in the film, it is pretty obvious that he used yet another stage/film trick to do this one.

Quote:

How about the suicide with the samurai sword, where his date, who copies him, of course DOES die?

Uh... did you really SEE the movie?

It was a "stage sword" - the blade of the sword was on a spring, so that when he pretended to plunge it into himself, the blade retracts up into the handle. The "actress" date sees that he is faking it, and even tests the blade on her hand (we see it spring into the handle) before PRETENDING to kill herself, while ham acting.

Skeptic · 13th December 2003, 04:10 PM

It's a burlesque, which is the kind of spoof with more serious intent than non-spoofs. C.f. Dr. Strangelove.

Fair enough; that, actually, is what I was trying to say...

Skeptic · 13th December 2003, 04:12 PM

The same thing has been done in about a jillion movies. We are to assume that he jumped out in time.

Oh come on! The camera shows the whole trip of the car. It shows quite clearly that nobody jumped out. Then he just appears, out of nowhere, on top of the cliff.

epepke · 13th December 2003, 07:30 PM

He just weighed the gas pedal down. It was a ceremony of disposing of his former lifestyle, not an almost-suicide.

Mark · 14th December 2003, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
The same thing has been done in about a jillion movies. We are to assume that he jumped out in time.

Oh come on! The camera shows the whole trip of the car. It shows quite clearly that nobody jumped out. Then he just appears, out of nowhere, on top of the cliff.

Honestly, how someone could watch a film and so completely misunderstand it is amazing. I suppose it may have to do with the fact that film makers in those days were fond of using subtle elements...you had to actually pay close attention to what was happening. As opposed to today's MTV style films, where everything is in your face and rarely is an individual shot on the screen for more than 2-4 seconds; subtlety is becoming a lost art in our culture. Sad.

I suggest you watch the film again...you may notice little things like Maude's tattoo from a German concentration camp; the "clicking" of the theatrical dagger spring as the actress tests it before acting out a suicide scene (and out-weirding Harold in the process); Maude's comment to Harold about his talents and her experience helping to avoid the draft (why would he care if he were immortal?); the whole time-inversion element of the final car sequence that clearly indicates we weren't being shown every last second of the drive, and that Harold easily had time to get out of the car before it crashed...

I could go on and on. Try actually watching the bloody film and I think you'll come away with a far different interpretation.

DrMatt · 15th December 2003, 08:13 AM

I think I've only seen this one 8 times.
I came away with one message:

There's a million things to be, you know that there are.

kookbreaker · 15th December 2003, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark

I suggest you watch the film again...you may notice little things like Maude's tattoo from a German concentration camp; the "clicking" of the theatrical dagger spring as the actress tests it before acting out a suicide scene (and out-weirding Harold in the process); Maude's comment to Harold about his talents and her experience helping to avoid the draft (why would he care if he were immortal?); the whole time-inversion element of the final car sequence that clearly indicates we weren't being shown every last second of the drive, and that Harold easily had time to get out of the car before it crashed...

There's also the time he's meeting another prospective girl and starts whacking on his 'arm' with a meat cleaver. After two or three blows it is painfully obvious that the 'arm' isn't even attached to him.

The immolation scene shows a slump in the sheets where Harold slips out like any stage magician.

The car is shown going over the cliff right after going down a road. I don't think he needed to jump out, there's just a conveniently missing scene where he just bricks the accelerator.

kookbreaker · 15th December 2003, 11:29 AM

When I was in college, several people said I reminded them of Harold. And I wasn't dating any 80-year olds.

You can stop inching away from me now.

RSLancastr · 15th December 2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kookbreaker
When I was in college, several people said I reminded them of Harold. And I wasn't dating any 80-year olds.

You can stop inching away from me now.

Did you also remind them of Brewster McCloud?

Checkmite · 15th December 2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by epepke
Great movie; I'm surprised you didn't get it.

It's about embracing life.

Since this was posted, I've discovered that if nobody can understand what a movie is about, using this phrase will elevate you to the status of "cinematic philisophical mage" in their eyes, and they will afterwards always want to ask you for an opinion of a movie.

RSLancastr · 16th December 2003, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
Since this was posted, I've discovered that if nobody can understand what a movie is about, using this phrase will elevate you to the status of "cinematic philisophical mage" in their eyes, and they will afterwards always want to ask you for an opinion of a movie.

I've found it to be quite effective when describing Russ Meyer films.

DrMatt · 5th January 2004, 07:58 AM

I just checked the photos of Bud Cort at IMDB. Actually, I think he HAS aged remarkably well. He even seems to still have the same impish smile, 30 years later.

Mark · 5th January 2004, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrMatt
I just checked the photos of Bud Cort at IMDB. Actually, I think he HAS aged remarkably well. He even seems to still have the same impish smile, 30 years later.

Well, since he is alive and well, I have to agree on one level. On the other hand, I would never in a million years have recognized him. I agree about the smile, though.

Luke T. · 5th January 2004, 02:35 PM

Harold and Maude is a fun movie. Maybe even great. I am halfway between Skeptic's opinion that it isn't all that deep and those that think it is.

I saw it a very long time ago (20-some years ago?) and two things stick out in my mind whenever the movie is mentioned. The first one is the scene with the priest asking Harold how he can have sex with an old woman and starts gagging at the thought.

The second one is when Harold makes one of those cheap devotion coins at the fairway and gives it to Maude, who promptly throws it in the water. At the expression of his shock, Maude says, "I will always know where it is."

Perfect.

phildonnia · 6th January 2004, 11:17 AM

I don't know what y'all are talking about. I saw a "deeper meaning" the first time I watched, without even trying.

The kid is obviously obsessed with death, and eventually realizes it's import, and decides to enjoy life. (Maude, Hearse/Jaguar = death, Banjo = enjoy life).

It's interesting to compare to Poe's "A Premature Burial", or the movie "Castaway".

Mark · 6th January 2004, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phildonnia
I don't know what y'all are talking about. I saw a "deeper meaning" the first time I watched, without even trying.

The kid is obviously obsessed with death, and eventually realizes it's import, and decides to enjoy life. (Maude, Hearse/Jaguar = death, Banjo = enjoy life).

It's interesting to compare to Poe's "A Premature Burial", or the movie "Castaway".

Me, too.

6th December 2003, 03:01 PM	#1
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Just watched "Harold and Maude" on DVD... ... what the f--k was that movie all about???

6th December 2003, 05:27 PM	#2
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	Great movie; I'm surprised you didn't get it. It's about embracing life.
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950

6th December 2003, 07:09 PM	#3
shemp Timothy, Timothy, where on earth did you go? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: trapped in a cave-in with Joe Posts: 12,884	What's it about? It's about 91 minutes long.
	__________________ Church on Sunday, sleep and nod Tryin' to duck the wrath of God Preacher's fillin' us with fright Tryin' to tell us what he thinks is right He really got to be some kind of nut (I can't use it!) Tryin' to make it real - compared to what?

6th December 2003, 07:43 PM	#4
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	I love this movie. Especially Maude. I think I'll rent it tomorrow. Skeptic, what didn't you like about it?
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

7th December 2003, 12:09 PM	#6
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,272	I don't know why I was thinking about "Harold and Maude" lately. I think it was because I read about a suicide of a young man. I haven't seen the film, I have seen it as play in the theatre and I loved it. It's one of the most well-composed hymns to life and an accurate account of the irrational "phaenomenon" that is called "falling in love". Another reason I loved it was because Maude reminds me of my grandmother. When I saw this thread I searched Amazon to find a copy of the DVD but it's a region 1 dvd and I won't be able to see it. Pity. Maybe we should start a thread about the movies we see on DVD so as to exchange ideas, opinions etc,etc.
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.

7th December 2003, 07:21 AM	#5
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	I was writing tongue-in-cheek. Actually, I like this movie A LOT: great acting, original and interesting plot, etc. I was merely noting that it is an absurdist fantasy, with its "social commentary" and "philosophical point" being (deliberately) over-the-top. To my amazement, people try to look "through" the absurd fantasy into the "real message" of the movie... which is a bit like writing a theology book based on LIFE OF BRIAN.

7th December 2003, 03:50 PM	#7
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptic To my amazement, people try to look "through" the absurd fantasy into the "real message" of the movie... which is a bit like writing a theology book based on LIFE OF BRIAN. I have a friend who is an evangelical Christian, and he pointed out that Life of Brian was really quite accurate with respect to the growth industry of Messiahs around that time.
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950

7th December 2003, 08:09 PM	#8
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	Quote: Originally posted by epepke *I have a friend who is an evangelical Christian, and he pointed out that Life of Brian* was really quite accurate with respect to the growth industry of Messiahs around that time.** I used to know an evangelical who was forbidden (by his church) to watch Life of Brian...blasphemy, ya know?
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

8th December 2003, 06:18 AM	#9
Mark Former Spinal Tap Drummer Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,529	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptic I was writing tongue-in-cheek. Actually, I like this movie A LOT: great acting, original and interesting plot, etc. I was merely noting that it is an absurdist fantasy, with its "social commentary" and "philosophical point" being (deliberately) over-the-top. To my amazement, people try to look "through" the absurd fantasy into the "real message" of the movie... which is a bit like writing a theology book based on LIFE OF BRIAN. Living life to the fullest is over the top? Why?

11th December 2003, 07:14 AM	#10
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Quote: Originally posted by Mark Living life to the fullest is over the top? Why? (WARNING: SPOILER ALERT!) Well, it isn't, but when the two main protagonists for "living life to the fullest" are: a). an immortal who repeatedly commits suicide unsuccesfully because he "enjoys being dead" and b). a woman who kills herself on her 80th birthday because she doesn't like her age... ...I'd say the "live life to the fullest" message is tongue-in-cheek, a bit like Brian's "is it the secret of eternal life?".

11th December 2003, 07:26 AM	#11
Mark Former Spinal Tap Drummer Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,529	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptic (WARNING: SPOILER ALERT!) Well, it isn't, but when the two main protagonists for "living life to the fullest" are: a). an immortal who repeatedly commits suicide unsuccesfully because he "enjoys being dead" and b). a woman who kills herself on her 80th birthday because she doesn't like her age... ...I'd say the "live life to the fullest" message is tongue-in-cheek, a bit like Brian's "is it the secret of eternal life?". Uh...I think you'd better watch it again. There is no "immortal" in the film; Harold fakes his death several times because he is afraid to live. (The self immolation scene is hysterical) Maude certainly doesn't kill herself because she doesn't "like her age." She was a survivor of German concentration camps, for goodness sake! (A subtle point you may have missed, I grant you.) If you had ever been the caregiver for someone with Alzheimer's or Parkinsons (I have) you would understand the point better. There does come a point when clinging to life is like a miser clutching a pile of coins that he will never, ever use. In the end, Harold goes off to live and be happy. Maude's legacy lives on through him. "Things grow and change and die and turn into something else," as Maude said to Harold in the field of daisys.

11th December 2003, 08:31 AM	#12
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,272	Yeap, exactly as Mark said it Harold is calling for people's real attention with those suicides of his, he grew up in a family that nobody taugh him anything really important, like how to love the trees, how to appreciate the starts and the sea. He commits those silly suicide attempts in order to attract his mother real attention who exhausts her love towards him just by spending money and looking for the best bride for him. Maude on the other hand had seen everything. She had experienced the cruelest and the brightest side of human's nature, she talked to the trees, she adored the sea, she committed suicide just to let Harold live. Does the film has the final scene in the cemetary where Harold plays saxophone to Maude's grave or this was the end at the theatrical version?
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.

11th December 2003, 08:37 AM	#13
Mark Former Spinal Tap Drummer Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,529	Quote: Originally posted by Cleopatra Yeap, exactly as Mark said it Harold is calling for people's real attention with those suicides of his, he grew up in a family that nobody taugh him anything really important, like how to love the trees, how to appreciate the starts and the sea. He commits those silly suicide attempts in order to attract his mother real attention who exhausts her love towards him just by spending money and looking for the best bride for him. Maude on the other hand had seen everything. She had experienced the cruelest and the brightest side of human's nature, she talked to the trees, she adored the sea, she committed suicide just to let Harold live. Does the film has the final scene in the cemetary where Harold plays saxophone to Maude's grave or this was the end at the theatrical version? He plays the banjo (which Maude gave him) while looking down at his deliberately crashed Jaguar/hearse; he then walks off, still playing, dancing, and ready to live. I don't think Maude killed herself so much for Harold's sake, as she did simply because it was time to go out with dignity. I do think her refusal to reconsider the decision was for Harold's sake. A rather fine distinction, I suppose...

11th December 2003, 08:42 AM	#14
Mark Former Spinal Tap Drummer Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,529	Btw, did you see Bud Cort in the movie "Dogma?" (Another great film, btw) Wow...the years have not been particularly kind to ol' Harold. Great to see him working again, though.

11th December 2003, 08:55 AM	#15
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,272	Quote: Originally posted by Mark He plays the banjo (which Maude gave him) while looking down at his deliberately crashed Jaguar/hearse; he then walks off, still playing, dancing, and ready to live. I don't think Maude killed herself so much for Harold's sake, as she did simply because it was time to go out with dignity. I do think her refusal to reconsider the decision was for Harold's sake. A rather fine distinction, I suppose... Arggggggg I want to see the film!!!!!!!! Maybe you are right! It was time for her to go anyway and but it wouldn't be appropriate for a person at her age to be involved with such a young man. I think that Maude's character would find it inappropriate. No, I haven't seen the film Dogma.
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.

11th December 2003, 09:28 AM	#16
Mark Former Spinal Tap Drummer Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,529	Quote: Originally posted by Cleopatra No, I haven't seen the film Dogma. You must! Another very quirky, funny, enjoybale, thought provoking film. Also very crude (Hey, it's a Jay and Silent Bob film, after all).

11th December 2003, 09:57 AM	#17
Foofer Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 261	I loved Harold & Maude but I haven't seen it in a very long time. After reading this thread, I am really wanting to watch it again. Dogma is very funny. A bit too pro-god for me, but definitely anti-religion.
	__________________ "Reincarnation, life after death; mumbo jumbo of all kinds has been highly commercial throughout the history of book publishing. The first printed book was the Bible." -- Dan from The Last Days of Disco

11th December 2003, 10:15 AM	#18
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	Quote: Originally posted by Mark Btw, did you see Bud Cort in the movie "Dogma?" (Another great film, btw) Wow...the years have not been particularly kind to ol' Harold. Great to see him working again, though. I didn't recognize him. Who did he play?
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

11th December 2003, 10:18 AM	#19
Foofer Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 261	He was the Earthly form that god took to play skee-ball. He was beaten up in the opening scene and spent the rest of the movie in a coma.
	__________________ "Reincarnation, life after death; mumbo jumbo of all kinds has been highly commercial throughout the history of book publishing. The first printed book was the Bible." -- Dan from The Last Days of Disco

11th December 2003, 10:24 AM	#20
Mark Former Spinal Tap Drummer Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,529	Quote: Originally posted by TruthSeeker I didn't recognize him. Who did he play? "God." As the old man in the begining who got beaten into a coma. Edited to add: Hey, Foofer beat me to it!

11th December 2003, 12:10 PM	#21
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	Quote: Originally posted by Mark "God." As the old man in the begining who got beaten into a coma. Edited to add: Hey, Foofer beat me to it! Thanks.
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

12th December 2003, 06:58 PM	#22
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	(AGAIN, SPOILER ALERT!) Er, I still say it's a spoof. C'mon, people, when the uncle--Gen. MacArthur's "right hand man"--is missing his right hand? When, as part of the treatment for hanging himself, he has to talk to this uncle... who tells him that "what this country needs is more Nathan Hales", saluting a picture of Hale with the noose around his neck? As for "faking" his death, he mysteriously appears at the top of the cliff, holding a banjo, after the car he drives crashes into the shore. How about the suicide with the samurai sword, where his date, who copies him, of course DOES die? C'mon, people... again, I LOVED the movie. It's quirky, original, very funny, and pokes fun at a lot of annoying things. But to take it seriously as a deep message about life...

12th December 2003, 07:29 PM	#23
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptic (AGAIN, SPOILER ALERT!) Er, I still say it's a spoof. It's a burlesque, which is the kind of spoof with more serious intent than non-spoofs. C.f. Dr. Strangelove. Randy Newman, Andrew Dice Clay, Richard Pryor and Goldie Hawn in the 60's, Steppin Fetchitt, etc. It must be hard to grok burlesque, because I notice that few people manage it.
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950

13th December 2003, 07:00 AM	#24
Mark Former Spinal Tap Drummer Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,529	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptic (AGAIN, SPOILER ALERT!) Er, I still say it's a spoof. C'mon, people, when the uncle--Gen. MacArthur's "right hand man"--is missing his right hand? When, as part of the treatment for hanging himself, he has to talk to this uncle... who tells him that "what this country needs is more Nathan Hales", saluting a picture of Hale with the noose around his neck? As for "faking" his death, he mysteriously appears at the top of the cliff, holding a banjo, after the car he drives crashes into the shore. How about the suicide with the samurai sword, where his date, who copies him, of course DOES die? C'mon, people... again, I LOVED the movie. It's quirky, original, very funny, and pokes fun at a lot of annoying things. But to take it seriously as a deep message about life... What it was spoofing was America's culture of death, by overstating the case. Strange how you could so totally miss the point of a movie like this... What is also strange is that America as a culture seems to have come full circle. Sad, really.

13th December 2003, 03:29 PM	#25
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,528	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptic As for "faking" his death, he mysteriously appears at the top of the cliff, holding a banjo, after the car he drives crashes into the shore. The same thing has been done in about a jillion movies. We are to assume that he jumped out in time. I agree that it could have been clearer. But again, after faking his suicide so many times in the film, it is pretty obvious that he used yet another stage/film trick to do this one. Quote: How about the suicide with the samurai sword, where his date, who copies him, of course DOES die? Uh... did you really SEE the movie? It was a "stage sword" - the blade of the sword was on a spring, so that when he pretended to plunge it into himself, the blade retracts up into the handle. The "actress" date sees that he is faking it, and even tests the blade on her hand (we see it spring into the handle) before PRETENDING to kill herself, while ham acting.

13th December 2003, 04:10 PM	#26
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	It's a burlesque, which is the kind of spoof with more serious intent than non-spoofs. C.f. Dr. Strangelove. Fair enough; that, actually, is what I was trying to say...

13th December 2003, 04:12 PM	#27
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	The same thing has been done in about a jillion movies. We are to assume that he jumped out in time. Oh come on! The camera shows the whole trip of the car. It shows quite clearly that nobody jumped out. Then he just appears, out of nowhere, on top of the cliff.

13th December 2003, 07:30 PM	#28
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	He just weighed the gas pedal down. It was a ceremony of disposing of his former lifestyle, not an almost-suicide.
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950

14th December 2003, 06:37 AM	#29
Mark Former Spinal Tap Drummer Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,529	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptic The same thing has been done in about a jillion movies. We are to assume that he jumped out in time. Oh come on! The camera shows the whole trip of the car. It shows quite clearly that nobody jumped out. Then he just appears, out of nowhere, on top of the cliff. Honestly, how someone could watch a film and so completely misunderstand it is amazing. I suppose it may have to do with the fact that film makers in those days were fond of using subtle elements...you had to actually pay close attention to what was happening. As opposed to today's MTV style films, where everything is in your face and rarely is an individual shot on the screen for more than 2-4 seconds; subtlety is becoming a lost art in our culture. Sad. I suggest you watch the film again...you may notice little things like Maude's tattoo from a German concentration camp; the "clicking" of the theatrical dagger spring as the actress tests it before acting out a suicide scene (and out-weirding Harold in the process); Maude's comment to Harold about his talents and her experience helping to avoid the draft (why would he care if he were immortal?); the whole time-inversion element of the final car sequence that clearly indicates we weren't being shown every last second of the drive, and that Harold easily had time to get out of the car before it crashed... I could go on and on. Try actually watching the bloody film and I think you'll come away with a far different interpretation.

15th December 2003, 08:13 AM	#30
DrMatt Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,422	I think I've only seen this one 8 times. I came away with one message: There's a million things to be, you know that there are.
	__________________ Music: Splendor in Sound CD No.3 is out!

15th December 2003, 11:27 AM	#31
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,168	Quote: Originally posted by Mark I suggest you watch the film again...you may notice little things like Maude's tattoo from a German concentration camp; the "clicking" of the theatrical dagger spring as the actress tests it before acting out a suicide scene (and out-weirding Harold in the process); Maude's comment to Harold about his talents and her experience helping to avoid the draft (why would he care if he were immortal?); the whole time-inversion element of the final car sequence that clearly indicates we weren't being shown every last second of the drive, and that Harold easily had time to get out of the car before it crashed... There's also the time he's meeting another prospective girl and starts whacking on his 'arm' with a meat cleaver. After two or three blows it is painfully obvious that the 'arm' isn't even attached to him. The immolation scene shows a slump in the sheets where Harold slips out like any stage magician. The car is shown going over the cliff right after going down a road. I don't think he needed to jump out, there's just a conveniently missing scene where he just bricks the accelerator.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,168	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

15th December 2003, 11:29 AM	#32
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,168	When I was in college, several people said I reminded them of Harold. And I wasn't dating any 80-year olds. You can stop inching away from me now.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,168	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

15th December 2003, 12:41 PM	#33
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,528	Quote: Originally posted by kookbreaker When I was in college, several people said I reminded them of Harold. And I wasn't dating any 80-year olds. You can stop inching away from me now. Did you also remind them of Brewster McCloud?

15th December 2003, 01:35 PM	#34
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,878	Quote: Originally posted by epepke Great movie; I'm surprised you didn't get it. It's about embracing life. Since this was posted, I've discovered that if nobody can understand what a movie is about, using this phrase will elevate you to the status of "cinematic philisophical mage" in their eyes, and they will afterwards always want to ask you for an opinion of a movie.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

16th December 2003, 12:36 PM	#35
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,528	Quote: Originally posted by Joshua Korosi Since this was posted, I've discovered that if nobody can understand what a movie is about, using this phrase will elevate you to the status of "cinematic philisophical mage" in their eyes, and they will afterwards always want to ask you for an opinion of a movie. I've found it to be quite effective when describing Russ Meyer films.