For headscratcher4: N Korea demands 'kidnappees'

bignickel · 8th December 2003, 03:38 PM

From the recent "News of the Wierd"

In October, North Korea's official news agency reported that Japan had broken a promise to return five people to North Korea. The five are Japanese citizens who were kidnapped by North Korea in 1978 but released to see their families in October 2002. North Korea's position is that they were released only temporarily and must be returned to North Korea. [Japan Today-Kyodo News, 10-19-03]
http://www.msnbc.com/comics/nw.asp

You could try putting that on your sig, but who'd believe it?

Giz · 9th December 2003, 04:31 AM

How will diplomatic relations ever improve whilst Japan refuses to behave honourably?

shemp · 9th December 2003, 04:43 AM

Yeah, let's pay 'em back for Pearl Harbor again! How dare they behave in a underhanded manner to those fine, upstanding North Koreans?

HarryKeogh · 9th December 2003, 04:56 AM

north korea officially has testicles the size of basketballs to ask for those people back.

Graham · 9th December 2003, 05:15 AM

IMO, Japan should have held out for more favourable terms for their return in the first place, rather than negotiating in bad faith - if that is what they've done.

Regardless of the size of their genetalia, the North Korean ruler-types are supremely paranoid and will view this as yet another confirmation of their suspicions.

That won't help any future negotiations on other, even more delicate, subjects (like nuclear weapons, for instance.

Graham

Skeptic · 9th December 2003, 09:05 AM

IMO, Japan should have held out for more favourable terms for their return in the first place, rather than negotiating in bad faith - if that is what they've done.

What is the world coming to! Lying to kidnappers and NOT COMING BACK to them despite promising to do so! I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.

This bad faith negotiation seems to be spreading: the other day, a woman who was released by a rapist after she tearfully promised not to call the police, actually CALLED the police! Doesn't she see that such dishonest behavior would make it MUCH HARDER in the future to get rapists and kidnappers, already paranoid, to trust their victim's promises? Surely, she should have stayed a bit more, an re-negotiated in good faith, until her rapist would openly agree to release her AND let her call the police.

That won't help any future negotiations on other, even more delicate, subjects (like nuclear weapons, for instance.

You don't seem to understand that there is no such thing as "negotiations" with the North Korean leaders. Hoping to "peacefully negotiate" a disarmed North Korea is nothing more than trusting the worthless word of an insane mass murderer, NK's leader, to behave himself.

But there you have it, from Graham, the "liberal" and "sophisticated" real-politik worldview in a nutshell: bend over backwards to a dictator's insane demands ("you PROMISED to let me keep your kidnapped citizens! Waaaaaahhhhhh! I'll SUE!"), in order not to "make it harder" to reach future worthless agreements with him.

Graham · 9th December 2003, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
IMO, Japan should have held out for more favourable terms for their return in the first place, rather than negotiating in bad faith - if that is what they've done.

What is the world coming to! Lying to kidnappers and NOT COMING BACK to them despite promising to do so! I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.

This bad faith negotiation seems to be spreading: the other day, a woman who was released by a rapist after she tearfully promised not to call the police, actually CALLED the police! Doesn't she see that such dishonest behavior would make it MUCH HARDER in the future to get rapists and kidnappers, already paranoid, to trust their victim's promises? Surely, she should have stayed a bit more, an re-negotiated in good faith, until her rapist would openly agree to release her AND let her call the police.

That won't help any future negotiations on other, even more delicate, subjects (like nuclear weapons, for instance.

You don't seem to understand that there is no such thing as "negotiations" with the North Korean leaders. Hoping to "peacefully negotiate" a disarmed North Korea is nothing more than trusting the worthless word of an insane mass murderer, NK's leader, to behave himself.

But there you have it, from Graham, the "liberal" and "sophisticated" real-politik worldview in a nutshell: bend over backwards to a dictator's insane demands ("you PROMISED to let me keep your kidnapped citizens! Waaaaaahhhhhh! I'll SUE!"), in order not to "make it harder" to reach future worthless agreements with him.

Whatever dude. You need to cut back on the caffeine, IMO, but whatever.

headscratcher4 · 9th December 2003, 11:24 AM

Ah, it seems to me that the point is being missed.

First, those people only thought they were being kidnapped. After the North Koreans helped to correct that impression, they were perfectly happy with having, indipendently, chosen to allow themselves to be taken to North Korea (at gun point).

Second, and this is more imortant, those alleged victems only think they are visiting Japan. North Korea only thinks they are not being returned, and Japan only thinks that it isn't returning them.

See the Manchurian Candidate...

8th December 2003, 03:38 PM	#1
bignickel Mad Mod Poet God Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,727	For headscratcher4: N Korea demands 'kidnappees' From the recent "News of the Wierd" In October, North Korea's official news agency reported that Japan had broken a promise to return five people to North Korea. The five are Japanese citizens who were kidnapped by North Korea in 1978 but released to see their families in October 2002. North Korea's position is that they were released only temporarily and must be returned to North Korea. [Japan Today-Kyodo News, 10-19-03] http://www.msnbc.com/comics/nw.asp You could try putting that on your sig, but who'd believe it?
	__________________ "You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real. I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that." - Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone

9th December 2003, 04:43 AM	#3
shemp Timothy, Timothy, where on earth did you go? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: trapped in a cave-in with Joe Posts: 12,892	Yeah, let's pay 'em back for Pearl Harbor again! How dare they behave in a underhanded manner to those fine, upstanding North Koreans?
	__________________ Church on Sunday, sleep and nod Tryin' to duck the wrath of God Preacher's fillin' us with fright Tryin' to tell us what he thinks is right He really got to be some kind of nut (I can't use it!) Tryin' to make it real - compared to what?

9th December 2003, 05:15 AM	#5
Graham Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,465	IMO, Japan should have held out for more favourable terms for their return in the first place, rather than negotiating in bad faith - if that is what they've done. Regardless of the size of their genetalia, the North Korean ruler-types are supremely paranoid and will view this as yet another confirmation of their suspicions. That won't help any future negotiations on other, even more delicate, subjects (like nuclear weapons, for instance. Graham
Graham Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,465	__________________ The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it's just sort of a tired feeling. - Paula Poundstone

9th December 2003, 11:19 AM	#7
Graham Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,465	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptic IMO, Japan should have held out for more favourable terms for their return in the first place, rather than negotiating in bad faith - if that is what they've done. What is the world coming to! Lying to kidnappers and NOT COMING BACK to them despite promising to do so! I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you. This bad faith negotiation seems to be spreading: the other day, a woman who was released by a rapist after she tearfully promised not to call the police, actually CALLED the police! Doesn't she see that such dishonest behavior would make it MUCH HARDER in the future to get rapists and kidnappers, already paranoid, to trust their victim's promises? Surely, she should have stayed a bit more, an re-negotiated in good faith, until her rapist would openly agree to release her AND let her call the police. That won't help any future negotiations on other, even more delicate, subjects (like nuclear weapons, for instance. You don't seem to understand that there is no such thing as "negotiations" with the North Korean leaders. Hoping to "peacefully negotiate" a disarmed North Korea is nothing more than trusting the worthless word of an insane mass murderer, NK's leader, to behave himself. But there you have it, from Graham, the "liberal" and "sophisticated" real-politik worldview in a nutshell: bend over backwards to a dictator's insane demands ("you PROMISED to let me keep your kidnapped citizens! Waaaaaahhhhhh! I'll SUE!"), in order not to "make it harder" to reach future worthless agreements with him. Whatever dude. You need to cut back on the caffeine, IMO, but whatever.
Graham Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,465	__________________ The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it's just sort of a tired feeling. - Paula Poundstone

9th December 2003, 11:24 AM	#8
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	Ah, it seems to me that the point is being missed. First, those people only thought they were being kidnapped. After the North Koreans helped to correct that impression, they were perfectly happy with having, indipendently, chosen to allow themselves to be taken to North Korea (at gun point). Second, and this is more imortant, those alleged victems only think they are visiting Japan. North Korea only thinks they are not being returned, and Japan only thinks that it isn't returning them. See the Manchurian Candidate...
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

9th December 2003, 04:31 AM	#2
Giz Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: UK/US Posts: 3,442	How will diplomatic relations ever improve whilst Japan refuses to behave honourably?

9th December 2003, 04:56 AM	#4
HarryKeogh Catholic School Survivor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 11,342	north korea officially has testicles the size of basketballs to ask for those people back.

9th December 2003, 09:05 AM	#6
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	IMO, Japan should have held out for more favourable terms for their return in the first place, rather than negotiating in bad faith - if that is what they've done. What is the world coming to! Lying to kidnappers and NOT COMING BACK to them despite promising to do so! I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you. This bad faith negotiation seems to be spreading: the other day, a woman who was released by a rapist after she tearfully promised not to call the police, actually CALLED the police! Doesn't she see that such dishonest behavior would make it MUCH HARDER in the future to get rapists and kidnappers, already paranoid, to trust their victim's promises? Surely, she should have stayed a bit more, an re-negotiated in good faith, until her rapist would openly agree to release her AND let her call the police. That won't help any future negotiations on other, even more delicate, subjects (like nuclear weapons, for instance. You don't seem to understand that there is no such thing as "negotiations" with the North Korean leaders. Hoping to "peacefully negotiate" a disarmed North Korea is nothing more than trusting the worthless word of an insane mass murderer, NK's leader, to behave himself. But there you have it, from Graham, the "liberal" and "sophisticated" real-politik worldview in a nutshell: bend over backwards to a dictator's insane demands ("you PROMISED to let me keep your kidnapped citizens! Waaaaaahhhhhh! I'll SUE!"), in order not to "make it harder" to reach future worthless agreements with him.