Magicians and Skepticism

jay.tarnoff · 22nd July 2009, 08:23 AM

Dear Magicians and Skeptics,

I was listening to Center for Inquiry's podcast Point of Inquiry (June 5th episode - The Elusive Quarry), in which D.J. Grothe was speaking to Dr. Ray Hyman regarding the need for a magical background to be a good skeptic. Dr. Hyman appeared to be coming down on the side that a background in magic and deception was not a necessary requirement for good skeptical investigations of the paranormal (even though Dr. Hyman has a background in magic).

I know Randi has often stated that his understanding of deception was one of his greatest strengths that he brought to investigations of the paranormal (e.g., he mentioned this in his speech during the previous CfI World Congress, 2009). Randi has also commented that even if the investigators do not have a background in magic, a magician can serve as a crucial part of the investigatory team (e.g., Project Alpha). What do the forum members think regarding the need for a background in magic/deception for paranormal investigations?

Thanks!

Jay

Pink Booties · 22nd July 2009, 08:40 AM

I agree that it is not strictly necessary.

But as I was explaining to my five year old, magicians, conjurers know a lot about slight of hand and misdirection... they make their living by it, and are constantly on the lookout for new tricks. This gives them a natural advantage over many flim-flammers who utilize simple tricks to fool the unwary, tricks that someone who makes their living doing it will spot immediately.

ETA: knowledge of magic tricks help in paranormal investigations because IMO most of them are unnecessary...

AgeGap · 22nd July 2009, 04:26 PM

Project Alpha is proof positive that you need understanding of deception when people are out to deceive.
Look at Houdini and then look at Conan-Doyle.

critterrice · 22nd July 2009, 11:08 PM

It helps.
I think a combination of a magic background and a natural science background is ideal.

vIQleS · 23rd July 2009, 08:10 PM

It's not necessary to be a magician - but it's a good idea to have one handy.

22nd July 2009, 08:23 AM	#1
jay.tarnoff Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 64	Magicians and Skepticism Dear Magicians and Skeptics, I was listening to Center for Inquiry's podcast Point of Inquiry (June 5th episode - The Elusive Quarry), in which D.J. Grothe was speaking to Dr. Ray Hyman regarding the need for a magical background to be a good skeptic. Dr. Hyman appeared to be coming down on the side that a background in magic and deception was not a necessary requirement for good skeptical investigations of the paranormal (even though Dr. Hyman has a background in magic). I know Randi has often stated that his understanding of deception was one of his greatest strengths that he brought to investigations of the paranormal (e.g., he mentioned this in his speech during the previous CfI World Congress, 2009). Randi has also commented that even if the investigators do not have a background in magic, a magician can serve as a crucial part of the investigatory team (e.g., Project Alpha). What do the forum members think regarding the need for a background in magic/deception for paranormal investigations? Thanks! Jay
	Last edited by jay.tarnoff; 22nd July 2009 at 09:32 AM. Reason: Typo in Center for Inquiry

22nd July 2009, 08:40 AM	#2
Pink Booties Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: in your guard, up on points, and stalling. Posts: 3,537	I agree that it is not strictly necessary. But as I was explaining to my five year old, magicians, conjurers know a lot about slight of hand and misdirection... they make their living by it, and are constantly on the lookout for new tricks. This gives them a natural advantage over many flim-flammers who utilize simple tricks to fool the unwary, tricks that someone who makes their living doing it will spot immediately. ETA: knowledge of magic tricks help in paranormal investigations because IMO most of them are unnecessary...
	Last edited by Pink Booties; 22nd July 2009 at 08:42 AM.

22nd July 2009, 04:26 PM	#3
AgeGap Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,719	Project Alpha is proof positive that you need understanding of deception when people are out to deceive. Look at Houdini and then look at Conan-Doyle.
AgeGap Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,719	__________________ Cool Uri Geller site by Steve Knight

23rd July 2009, 08:10 PM	#5
vIQleS Muse Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Auckland NZ Posts: 696	It's not necessary to be a magician - but it's a good idea to have one handy.
	__________________ "I neither believe nor doubt. I am simply trying to verify her assertions." "As an android, I am unable to accept that which cannot be proven through rational means..." - Lt Cmdr Data http://facebook.com/vIQleS

22nd July 2009, 11:08 PM	#4
critterrice Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 78	It helps. I think a combination of a magic background and a natural science background is ideal.