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Tags doctors , western , ignored , parasite , skin , demodex

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Old 31st December 2002, 05:11 PM   #1
Nie Trink Wasser
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Demodex - skin parasite ignored by western doctors ?

quackery or not ?

http://www.demodexsolutions.com

Demodex mites live inside the sebaceous glands and hair follicles, sucking nutrients from the hair roots and damaging the cell walls. After mating they burrow into the skin, laying eggs, introducing bacteria and infection to the skin. Throughout the five phases of their life cycle, these mites destroy the skin by excreting wastes and secretions, laying eggs and dying within its layers. After death, their corpses become liquid and decompose inside the skin.

Research indicates that human demodex is a conditional-pathogenic parasite. The disorder occurs as the result of a large infestation of demodex mites on the skin, combined with a weakened immune system. The physical, chemical and mechanical stimulation of the skin from the mites can cause the immune system to react in extreme ways. Local allergic inflammation (which sometimes can cause a tickle all over the body), reythema, papules and pustules are all reactions by the immune system.

The adolescent mite dermatitis and early symptoms of rosacea are frequently misdiagnosed as adolescent acne. A sample study has shown that from people with mite dermatitis (60% of the population), 2.44% have rosacea; 10.4% have acne-like mite dermatitis. (See note 1.) When mite testing and the accorded treatment are not carried out, this condition causes increased damage to the normal health, structure and beauty of the skin. The destruction of the skin becomes more and more severe as the condition persists, leaving the facial skin rough and ugly.

The inflammation will repeatedly occur without timely intervention, correct diagnosis and effective therapy. Pathologic changes to the skin, such as enlarged opening of the hair follicles, widened pores, enlarged and damaged capillaries, hyperplasia of cells and even rhinophyma (growth of the nose and central facial areas) will develop.

Given this, it is not difficult to imagine the extent of the damage that the mites cause.
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Old 31st December 2002, 05:35 PM   #2
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A cursory look at google and webmd indicates that demodex and some demodectic disease is real. Most sources do indicate that demodex infestation is ubiquitous (up to 75%) but the site you link attributes more disease to them.

They may be onto something, or they may only be overstating the problem; its hard to tell without digging for more research. Whether their treatment is efficacious (more than an antibiotic) is a seperate issue and would require a clinical trial to determine.

hairquackery.com debunks the theory that demodex is responsible for hair loss. Your site does claim that 'some' premature hair loss can be attributed to demodex, but it seems primarily concerned with acne and rosacea.

It is apparently much more serious in dogs than in humans.

It does not appear that Western medicine has neglected demodex, however.
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Old 31st December 2002, 07:03 PM   #3
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It doesn't seem dog-demodex can be 'caught' by humans. I've had multiple dogs with demodectic mange, and despite major handling of them by me (to put the medicinal cream on the bald itchy patches), I never got it. But jeez, now I'm really itchy thinking about it. >_< But I have no idea if dog-demodex is catchable by humans, or cats, or anything. The webpages I saw on dog demodectic mange never mentioned cats or humans, only saying that for some breeds it is hereditary.

Ah, here we are. "Demodectic Mange is NOT contagious to other pets or humans." ( http://www.camdencounty.org/aco/Anim...parasites.html ) So what, do humans have different demodex parasites than dogs? Is it just a weird mistake sort of thing for humans to get it?
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Old 31st December 2002, 08:38 PM   #4
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Remember when ulcers were blamed on high strung people whether they were high strung or not? Then came the discovery of "Helicobactor pylorii". All of a sudden they found out contrary to conventional wisdom that bacteria could live in the acidic stomach. I knew I wasn't high strung but no one would listen. Still they try to sell you Zantac, Tums, Rolaids, Tagamet, and the ambigious term GERD to push these drugs when all along the cure is a healthy dose of antibiotics. They couldn't sell these drugs if you were cured. I have a healthy skepticism when it comes to the GERD hoax.
Mites are easy to diagnose with a hand lens. I suspect that the drug companies would rather sell tons of clearasil and other acne medicine rather then cure you once and for all. I am as skeptical as anyone when it comes to quacks but there is a lot of real science out to cure their slim wallets. Information deprivation is what a lot of drug companies thrive on. I sound paranoid but not so. I am not at all suprised that we don't hear a lot about these mites causing acne and rosacea.
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Old 1st January 2003, 10:00 AM   #5
Nie Trink Wasser
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dermatology

What I dont understand is this.

I been sent to dermatologists since I was 10 or 11. My skin and hair condition was far worse than any other kid my age and these doctors NEVER mentioned demodex.

We had mangey dogs around my house and my father was a mangey individual.

now, if you are a child and your father is notoriously mangey and passes these mites to you when your immune system is weak, then you might have the problems Ive experienced. Painful body acne that was somehow always incurable and required mored medication. And now I see my younger relatives experiencing the same thing. If there is a cure that has been around since the 80's, why hasnt a dermatologist at least researched it ?

why is it SO impossible for mange on humans to be cured ?
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Old 2nd January 2003, 08:08 AM   #6
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I have reviewed a lot of research on acne/rosacea. Basically, it is caused by a complex chain of hormone interactions and failed bodily functions like the skin or hair not falling off when it should, forming a clogged pore etc. Actually, despite what the quack says on his web site, hygeine has virtually no effect, nor does diet, or humidity. You could eat greasy pizza all day and there would be no effect. At this point, I would not recommend antibiotics due to the fact that if you take them for too long, the bacteria will evolve resistance, and that's bad. There are newer treatments for acne at this time, and the development of a hormone related treatment is in the works. Out of thousands of cases of acne, it was not mentioned that any of them had this parasite as a cause. Does this guy have any evidence of his claims? Probably not. IMHO, we should let kids have acne when they are young instead of fighting it, and let it go away naturally. By agressively treating it at a young age, we may not be allowing our bodies to develop what might be loosely termed resistance to acne. Most cosmetics are identical to the USP stuff developed decades ago, except in price of course. I do not feel it is the pharmaceutical industry that is the bad guy here, but the cosmetic industry and spa industry that lie to people and take enormous amounts of money for treatments that don't work. And then there are the alternative kooks, but I will spare the diatribe, and simply comment that you should simply avoid magical thinking when it comes to health.
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Old 2nd January 2003, 06:01 PM   #7
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MST3K

does this remind anyone of the MST3K where the bots convinced Mike that he had to get rid of the mites living and breeding in his eyebrows?
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Old 3rd January 2003, 12:20 AM   #8
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I have rosacea, so believe me, I have done a ton and a half of research on this damned condition.

The demodex mite as the cause of rosacea theory has been discounted for about 3 or 4 years now, as is the Helicobactor pylorii theory. While there might be some skin conditions caused by the mites, we are finding out that rosacea is actually a systemic condition that involves the facial vascular system and possibly an oversensitive sympathetic nervous system. Many people also experiences symptoms indicative of some auto-immune disorders, like Raynauds phenomenon.

If it were as easy as demodex mites, 1 in 20 Americans (including myself) would be quite happy campers by now.
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Old 3rd January 2003, 12:45 AM   #9
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Incidentally, the demodex dogs get is a different species from what humans have. Demodex is a whole genus and typically the individual species is specific to a host species. Dog demodex does not affect humans.
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Old 3rd January 2003, 07:17 AM   #10
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I first heard about this on a live TV broadcast about 10 years ago where several volunteers from the audience came up and had eyelashes removed and placed under a microscope. Over half the volunteers had evidence of mites. The audience was utterly astonished, and so was I.
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Old 3rd January 2003, 08:33 AM   #11
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We've got a lot of stuff living in and on and around our bodies. We just *think* we're reasonably clean. Truth is, we're less scruffy than our ancestors (with lice layered in their clothing) but we're not a nation of Mr. Cleans.

Sometimes they have a beneficial function (e. coli, for instance.)

The "dose it with antibiotics" approach to acne is not a new one; it was done back in the 60's or so (if memory serves) and was discontinued because it wasn't that effective.
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Old 3rd January 2003, 10:10 AM   #12
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mites can be our friends....well on tv

see, the point of the MST3K was that when the nanites got rid of the eyebrow mites, and it was kind of a mini Vietnam sort of war, poor Mike's eyebrows ended up with all sorts of junk in them...we have lots of stuff living in and on us, and it usually isn't a problem. In fact, my pediatrician just told me that children living in messy dusty houses (with lots of dust mites) and dogs and cats have fewer allergies and cases of asthma than kids in sterile homes. I am so happy with the excuse not to dust and clean as much I am not even checking into her sources and am for once accepting her word without question!
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Old 7th January 2003, 12:52 PM   #13
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Anwers on all your questions

We will try to answer all the questions on this forum about demodex mites soon.
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Old 7th January 2003, 02:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
and dogs and cats have fewer allergies and cases of asthma than kids in sterile homes
I don't know where the study is but I recently read that children who live with a dog have less allergies than those without, and children with a dog AND a cat have even less.

I'll try to find the study.
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Old 7th January 2003, 03:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by panduh
I have rosacea, so believe me, I have done a ton and a half of research on this damned condition.

The demodex mite as the cause of rosacea theory has been discounted for about 3 or 4 years now, as is the Helicobactor pylorii theory.
Do you mean that H. Pylori has been eliminated as a cause for rosacea?
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Old 8th January 2003, 02:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by UndercoverElephant
I first heard about this on a live TV broadcast about 10 years ago where several volunteers from the audience came up and had eyelashes removed and placed under a microscope. Over half the volunteers had evidence of mites. The audience was utterly astonished, and so was I.
You're covered in 'em, trust me. Maybe not this particular species, but the human body is absolutely covered in no-see-ums. Some estimates put bacterial content alone at 10% of dry body weight.

Now take into account that the human race (and especially Americans) are cleaner now than they ever have been. So we can probably discount any super every-disease-is-caused theory, unless there is a newer and nastier organism than previously. They might cause some conditions, but like the germs-cause-everything people, you can't extend the metaphor to be all-inclusive.

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Old 10th January 2003, 01:11 AM   #17
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Please apologies if I do some writing mistakes, English is not my native Language.

If the western medicine is overlooking the Demodex problem is maybe a too big statement, but that there is not much attention given on those mites is for sure.

The reason for this we can not answer ourselves, except that fact, that in all the researches done in the west, and we are aware of, they try to proof the relationship between the amount of mites in a certain area of the skin from people who have skin diseases and from people who look healthy.

But there seems to be no relation, you can find a healthy person with a lot of mites and a person who has problems with the same amount or less.
It all depends on the individual, immune system, and maybe other reasons not so well understood yet.
In the western medicine this is translated as "If we can not proof it is not true"

We did not go in this adventure just like that, we did tests for more then one year to see the results in practice by giving treatments for free and the results where so great that we decided to start selling the products on the internet.

Too sum some diseases that can occur because of demodex mites activity:

Red, swollen or brandy noose

Almost all forms of acne, you don't need to have acne because you have a greasy skin, greasy skin is easily treatable with all he good products available now.
greasy skin is not acne, it only becomes acne when there start to be infections.
If you take the cause of the infections away, the mites, then the acne is also gone.
We are not going to discuss a little pimple every now and then, and call that acne, this always can occur because a extern bacterial infection.

Adolescent acne is 90 % because of mites, 10 % is pure bacterial. (data derived from practical use in China)

Some forms of rosacea, not all

Despite hairquackery.com states that hair loss because of demodex activity is a quackery we have a lot of clients who are loosing hair because of the mites, it is a fault statement to say that this is in general the case, it is proven that hair loss most of the time is because of hormonal, heritage and other reasons but in some extreme cases where are also visible signs of demodex activity on the scalp, hair loss seems to occur, just like with dogs.
Hairquackery states that dogs with a demodex problem don't loose there hair, that is not true, of course they can loose there hair on the infested patches, you can look that up everywhere on the internet very easily, hairquackery should invest a bit more time to know first what they are talking about before they become a Quackery themselves.
Breaking down something is much more easy then building most of the time.

I think it is not so difficult to understand the damage those mites can do, they surface to mate, going back in the skin taking bacteria's with them who are anyway always present on the skin surface, they damage the hair follicles and sebaceous glands, especially demodex brevis is doing a lot of damage wit his sharp
like needle claws, they die and decompose in your skin, excreting wastes and secretions, creating infections all the time.

If you read the Russian translated document on our web site from one of the rarely well done researches on demodex mites then you can read that all infested people have some reactions from the mites, sometimes even only in the form of a little pimple now and then but it is there.

"All about demodex" Demodicosis and associative diseases http://www.demodexsolutions.com/tran...sp#translation
They also have reasons to believe that the mites during the years changed from a symbiotic way of live to a parasitic one.
We know it is a very bad translation and we are trying to get hold of the original documentation so we can provide a better one.

I think it is a bit dangerous to say that demodex mites are more serious in dogs then on humans, millions of people are suffering from them in one way or the other without knowing, but we don't (luckily) eliminate a human being because of some disease like they do with dogs.

That a lot of people have, for example troubles with the mites in there eye lashes, and that this even can lead to bleparitis is a well knowing fact, we know a university professor who is treating patients for this, his saying ?

I could never proof that demodex mites are the reason but when I eliminate them the problems are gone ............................

This just to draw the medical situation towards those mites.

This is a wrong statement or written wrong http://www.camdencounty.org/aco/Anim...parasites.html Of course demodex is also contagious for other dogs, where should they come from if not came from the mother or other dogs ?
demodex mites can only live for a short time outside the host so in that way it is impossible to catch them and they are not coming out of the sky.
the question in which case it will become a disease is a total different subject and would be worthwhile to study more deeply.
On the question if dogs mites can infest a human we have no answer, probable not like the most articles say, and lets hope not.

The question from Nie Trink wasser (I also don't like water hahaha) is as difficult to answer for us as for him.
we are the same surprised and it was also for us also very hard to believe in the beginning that this theory could be true,
After the long period of tests we did we became convinced, the Zhonzhou medical ointment is on the 24 th place of best selling
medicines in China, without making any commercials for the product, nothing...............
We think that this would not be possible to achieve if it was a quackery.

I suffered myself since I became 14 from acne all my live, tried everything but no results, I have a very greasy skin but no acne anymore, this is the best proof for me.
The most doctors even don't know (or don't remember) what demodex mites are.

The Zhongzhou medical ointment has gone true all the test stages in China exactly the same as done in the west, including clinical trials, before getting a license, don't compare our products with some stuff from people who mix Chinese herbs or whatever and sell them as a wonder cure, actually, the ointments are a mix from Western and Chinese medicine with many years of development and improvement behind them.

There are more then hundred clinics in China who solely are using the ZhongZhou ointment as treatment for acne and relevant skin diseases with a cure rate from more then 90 %, all the technical data we provide is derived from the experience of those clinics with the ointment.

Why are this ointments not available then already a long time in USA or Europe ?
That is an easy question too answer, it is almost impossible too get a FDA license in USA and the same problem in Europe,
Products containing herbs are impossible too make every time EXACTLY the same, a herb is a plant and every plant is different,
resulting in very slight differences with every mixture, it would probable be possible to get a license for a certain mixture but then the whole procedure would need to be done over and over again with every new mixture, in practice, this is something that can not be done,

that is how it works in the west and probable a good system to protect the users but like always, exceptions makes the rules.

On the other hand, they allow to sell pesticides for human use who are very poisonous and have already done a lot of damage on peoples skin.

The question from Panduh
Not all forms of rosacea are cause by demodex mites, the rosacea caused by demodex mite starts most of the time with other symptoms, itch, a kind of acne, dry flaky skin most of the time next too the noose...............later the skin gets red more and more and very sensitive.
People should do a mite test before treating with our products.

We are not intended to start a long discussion here about who is right and who is not, why demodex mites becomes a disease with some people and with others not is a question we can not answer.
I guess the best proof is the practical one, and future will tell for sure.
However, if somebody has some additional questions, we will try to answer them.

sincerely

Walter Freyne
Please visit http://www.demodexsolutions.com
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Old 10th January 2003, 01:50 AM   #18
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He makes a compelling stand. Sounds like this little bugger warrants more investigation.

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Old 6th May 2003, 07:56 PM   #19
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Results

I somebody is interested you can read already some results from people using our products on our message board,
we have many more success stories (90% cure rate) but most people don't bother posting anymore once healed.

Demodex Solutions forum

This is just the beginning and we will continuo to proof that demodex mites are responsible for a lot of skin diseases and that it is possible to heal completely by killing them.

I will be glad to answer more questions if any.

Best regards

Walter freyne
Demodex Solutions ltd
Demodex Solutions
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