Marathon Man? Dentists should refuse the patient.

Debaroo · 27th July 2009, 07:22 PM

I had my teeth cleaned last Thursday and much to my disdain on Friday night a filling on my front tooth fell out. I could not keep my tongue off the area - it was jagged and of course it felt like it was 2 feet wide. Looking at myself in the mirror I could not help but think of "hick".

Anyway - I phoned my dentist this morning and was able to get in today to have it repaired. I was expecting the "needle" - and those needles to the front of the tooth are PAINFUL! Feels like it's coming out your nose. The dentist says - no, it's only enamel so no need for freezing.

So - we get into a short conversation about freezing and he tells me about a couple of patients who are into "natural" and "holistics" who refuse freezing (because it's so TOXIC). I say - wow - they must have really good pain tolerance. He says, no. And I say - but, how can you work on someone who is jerking their head around? He says it's really difficult and hard to do a good job.

What is it with these natural-no drug people anyway? Perhaps, before the dentist starts to drill they should be duct taped to the chair so they cannot move.

I am no stranger to the dentist chair and most of the work done on my teeth invovles extremely deep drilling (all my molars are crowned). I could not imagine having that work done without freezing.

I had a wisdom tooth extracted one time - the freezing didn't work - OUCH, OUCH, OUCH.

I think if I was a dentist I'd refuse to work on a patient who refused anesthetic, especially with a deep filling. Imagine drilling into a nerve and the person jerks and flails and the drill could go anywhere. I'm not talking about little bitty cavities - but ones that go into the core of the tooth.

shandyjan · 27th July 2009, 08:53 PM

I dont know how they could sit through that without being tied to the chair.
Ive had the other side, where the dentist had beliefs. I had a very painful abscess and he didnt believe in antibiotics

Doctors tell you to see your dentist, they dont like treating dental problems. He gave in when I cried and howled to get some relief! That dentist was telling me how his wife hypnotised her patients to not bleed during an extraction ..voila, they didnt bleed anywhere near the usual amounts. (His story..not mine'.
Needless to say I never went back there!

arthwollipot · 27th July 2009, 09:02 PM

My teeth hurt now. Thanks a lot!

Marduk · 27th July 2009, 09:06 PM

I have been to the doctors several times for biposies and the suchlike where usually an anesthetic is required and I have always refused them. My doctor isn't phased in the slightest, she reminds me that it is not NHS policy to offer an injection before such a procedure but NHS policy to give one and jabs me anyway.

Debaroo · 27th July 2009, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Marduk

I have been to the doctors several times for biposies and the suchlike where usually an anesthetic is required and I have always refused them. My doctor isn't phased in the slightest, she reminds me that it is not NHS policy to offer an injection before such a procedure but NHS policy to give one and jabs me anyway.

Then you have a lot more fortitude than me. By golly...that drill hits my tooth nerve and I will jump in the chair.

Debaroo · 27th July 2009, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Marduk

I have been to the doctors several times for biposies and the suchlike where usually an anesthetic is required and I have always refused them. My doctor isn't phased in the slightest, she reminds me that it is not NHS policy to offer an injection before such a procedure but NHS policy to give one and jabs me anyway.

Just curious - but why do you refuse the anesthetic?

Modified · 27th July 2009, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Debaroo

Just curious - but why do you refuse the anesthetic?

If he means skin biopsies, then I'm guessing he has a high pain tolerance. Something like that wouldn't bother me at all, but teeth are a different story.

Floyt · 27th July 2009, 09:55 PM

I used to go without anaesthetics because I'd somehow gotten it into my head that they keep your mouth semi-paralyzed for about a day afterwards, and it always turned out such that I had some important speaking (or actually singing) occasion later that day. I think those shots used to be that way when I was a kid - I remember my brother walking a around like a drooling chow-chow for hours afterwards...
Anyway, I always stolidly refused the needle and sat it out (learnt some interesting things about pain thresholds that way). On the last occasion the dentists finally enquired why I was doing this to myself. Turned out shots are a lot more user-friendly these days and leave no trace after an hour or so - duh.

I'm sure it was character-forming, though.

Vic Vega · 27th July 2009, 10:16 PM

I can think of only one adult I know who is so afraid of needles that he undergoes dental work without Novocain.

He is, believe it or not, a dentist. I kid you not... He has no trouble injecting it into other people, as I know from firsthand experience.

arthwollipot · 28th July 2009, 12:33 AM

Did you hear about the Buddhist who refused Novocain? He wanted to transcend dental medication.

Rolfe · 28th July 2009, 02:58 AM

It varies a lot. The dentist I had as a child was rather inclined to freeze your whole face, and "SOP" in our family was not to have the anaesthetic. I had quite a lot of fillings as a child without anaesthetic, and it was painful, but I put up with it and didn't jerk my head around. If I had, I believe the dentist would have given me the anaesthetic anyway. For some reason, though, I was more scared of the needle than the drill.

Then when I was in my late 20s, I moved house, and coincidentally my new dentist was my old dentist's daughter. She persuaded me to try the anaesthetic, and it wasn't so bad really. I commented that she seemed to be giving much less anaesthetic than her father did, so it was much less painful and intrusive. She laughed and said "oh, Daddy!" It was a generational thing. I've always had the anaesthetic since then, even when I moved back to the original practice 25 years later.

There's no "NHS policy". You can have the injection or not, as you choose. Most dentists will assume you want it unless you decline though. (One of the "NHS horror stories" trotted out by someone on one of the healthcare threads was a woman telling a right-wing interviewer that NHS dentistry was all done without anaesthetic. Which was of course a lie.)

My mother went right on not having the injections right into old age. So much so that when she had root canal work done, the dentist (a new one, the original guy having retired) didn't offer her an anaesthetic. Which in my opinion was insane. My mother sat through the whole thing, and only told me afterwards how extremely painful it had been. I castigated both her and Karen (the dentist) as a couple of idiots. I could have complained to Karen, but really, my mother should have had the sense to say something herself.

However, it does illustrate just what a patient can put up with. And bear that in mind the next time someone tells you how great acupuncture is.

Rolfe.

GlennB · 28th July 2009, 05:59 AM

I had a vasectomy once (

) and I can only imagine the doctor had fallen asleep in the anaesthesia lectures. Jab this side, jab that side, set to work .... OH DEAR LORD.
Then he complained it was like trying to operate while on a North Sea fishing boat in a gale. HE complained !
When it comes to teeth I would anaesthetise myself rather than do without. I tried it once for a shallow filling as a kid. Never again.

Tanja · 28th July 2009, 06:44 AM

I once met someone who was a senior officer in the army (in one of the countries of the former Yugoslavia), who had a toothache but couldn't face going to the dentist because he was too scared.

He wasn't scared of combat, but he was terrified of the dentist.

Molinaro · 28th July 2009, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

I had a vasectomy once (

) and I can only imagine the doctor had fallen asleep in the anaesthesia lectures. Jab this side, jab that side, set to work .... OH DEAR LORD.
Then he complained it was like trying to operate while on a North Sea fishing boat in a gale. HE complained !
When it comes to teeth I would anaesthetise myself rather than do without. I tried it once for a shallow filling as a kid. Never again.

Thanks for reminding me of the 2 most painfull moments of my life.

"Just a little prick", (hey watch your words there doc) to freeze one...

And then a while later.. and now the other side... and now I knew what was coming... aaaahhhhhhh!

soylent · 28th July 2009, 08:14 AM

Both my top, front teeth are crowns(I ground them down in my sleep as a child). Those of you who have never had crowns perhaps don't know the procedure, the dentist uses a small, coarse, rotary powertool to grind the teeth down to triangular nubs to fasten the crowns on. It takes about 20 minutes of grinding.

The novocain didn't take at all, despite three applications; all it did was make my face feel numb and droop in a comical fashion(at least it was symmetric). I heartily recommend the procedure to aspiring "enhanced interrogation" practioners everywhere.

It barely bothers me to drill out a cavity without anasthesia now.

alfaniner · 28th July 2009, 09:13 AM

I've had so much work done that at times I've fallen asleep in the chair while he's working. With Novocain, but not nitrous oxide - that's the only downside of this dentist. Even though I rarely needed it, I sure liked it.

LostAngeles · 28th July 2009, 07:02 PM

I'm not telling the story of my wisdom teeth being removed again, but suffice to say, it took five shots before she simply held my head down and yanked it at the right angle since the root was curved.

I Ratant · 28th July 2009, 07:13 PM

My dentist is "bountifully endowed".
When she's working on my teeth, there's other nice soft things that divert my attention.

Molinaro · 28th July 2009, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by LostAngeles

I'm not telling the story of my wisdom teeth being removed again, but suffice to say, it took five shots before she simply held my head down and yanked it at the right angle since the root was curved.

Another reminder I could do without! I've had more teeth pulled than I care to admit. Every single freaking one of them had the roots take a 90 degree turn below the gumline. As a result, every freaking one required the dentist to chisel away some of the jaw bone to get that last bit of root out.

UncaYimmy · 28th July 2009, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Debaroo

Just curious - but why do you refuse the anesthetic?

When I was younger (teens into my 30s) I used to refuse it solely as a test of my self control. Back then I figured out that pain was just a warning from your body that something was wrong. Mentally if you acknowledge this you can tolerate quite a bit of pain before the warnings become too intense to resist. Athletically you can accomplish quite a bit with that attitude. To this day I can withstand a lot of pain.

In my early teens I also ran a mile in the summer heat with a mouthful of water just to see if I could. Another thing I did turned out to be really stupid. I didn't like that my body reacted to getting burned before I actually felt any pain, so I taught myself to overcome this reaction. To this day I don't automatically jerk my hand away when accidentally grabbing something hot. The pain has to register first, which means I get burned.

Prometheus · 28th July 2009, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Debaroo

I had my teeth cleaned last Thursday and much to my disdain on Friday night a filling on my front tooth fell out. I could not keep my tongue off the area - it was jagged and of course it felt like it was 2 feet wide. Looking at myself in the mirror I could not help but think of "hick".

Anyway - I phoned my dentist this morning and was able to get in today to have it repaired. I was expecting the "needle" - and those needles to the front of the tooth are PAINFUL! Feels like it's coming out your nose. The dentist says - no, it's only enamel so no need for freezing.

So - we get into a short conversation about freezing and he tells me about a couple of patients who are into "natural" and "holistics" who refuse freezing (because it's so TOXIC). I say - wow - they must have really good pain tolerance. He says, no. And I say - but, how can you work on someone who is jerking their head around? He says it's really difficult and hard to do a good job.

What is it with these natural-no drug people anyway? Perhaps, before the dentist starts to drill they should be duct taped to the chair so they cannot move.

I am no stranger to the dentist chair and most of the work done on my teeth invovles extremely deep drilling (all my molars are crowned). I could not imagine having that work done without freezing.

I had a wisdom tooth extracted one time - the freezing didn't work - OUCH, OUCH, OUCH.

I think if I was a dentist I'd refuse to work on a patient who refused anesthetic, especially with a deep filling. Imagine drilling into a nerve and the person jerks and flails and the drill could go anywhere. I'm not talking about little bitty cavities - but ones that go into the core of the tooth.

I once had a tooth drilled without any anaesthetic. I didn't refuse the drugs, though. The dentist asked me whether I wanted any or not, and I was fascinated that he'd asked since always before he'd simply given me the shot without asking. Also, I happened to be taking Daniel Dennett's Philosophy of Mind course that semester, and we had just finished reading "Why You Can't Make A Computer That Feels Pain". Afterwards, I asked him why on earth he'd given me the option and then allowed me to go through that torture. He said he'd intended the question sarcastically and never expected I'd actually forego anaesthesia, but once I said that's what I wanted he was required to accommodate me. Even twenty-something years later I remember that searing pain like it was yesterday.

Rolfe · 29th July 2009, 03:39 AM

And yet, I had quite a lot drilled without anaesthetic when I was a child and a teenager, and although I agree it was painful, it hasn't exactly scarred my memory.

Rolfe.

Professor Yaffle · 29th July 2009, 05:17 AM

Gordon Brown had root canal work without anaesthetic because he had a speech to give later in the day and he didn't want to be dribbling during it.

Ocelot · 29th July 2009, 07:29 AM

My cheap butcher of a dentist always gives anaesthetic. Then she gets straight to work. Ouch ouch ouch. The only thing I can say is she's quick. I'm usually all paid up and on the way home in the car before my face starts to go numb.

Once I needed emergency treatment and went to a very expensive dentist. He gave anasthetic too. First a gel, which he allowed to soak in so I wouldn't feel the needle. The he waited ten minutes for it to take effect and checked I couldn't feel anything before he started work. He cost more than five times as much and I can't say it was worth the extra (because I just don't have much spare cash) but it was a revelation as to how things should be done.

Next time I was at the "butchers" I asked if she could wait a while whislt the anaesthetic kicked in. Made a huge difference.

bokonon · 29th July 2009, 07:52 AM

I didn't know "no anaesthetic" was an option until a few years ago, when a dentist offered me the choice. I'll try almost anything once, so I gave it a go.

Now, I routinely forego the shot when getting a cavity filled. There are no nerve endings in enamel, and I really don't want the dentist who's drilling the enamel to drill down to where there ARE nerve endings. I like being able to walk out of the dentist's office and eat or drink without drooling all over myself.

sackett · 29th July 2009, 07:53 AM

faint.

"Quick, Doctor, the needle!" is my rule of life in the dentist's chair.

alfaniner · 29th July 2009, 08:53 AM

My current dentist is fantastic. He has a method of getting the Novocain in without it causing any pain at all. With my previous dentist the shot always hurt more than the drilling.

Pink Booties · 29th July 2009, 09:07 AM

My stepdad is a dentist. He met my mom through a dental appointment she made for all of us... great guy.

Anyways, he needed to remove a couple of teeth from my mouth.

The first, that was easy enough. Having this dude climb halfway into my mouth, me feeling skittish and claustrophobicky... number two has been the stuff of nightmares all my life. The root, you see, was so long it had wrapped around my jaw in a strange way, and he broke the tooth to remove it.

The *caaaaaarunch!!!* as heard inside my skull was terrifying. When the tooth broke, it exposed the root, and fine streams of my blood shot out of my mouth, making lines down his smock as he worked. I never had him work on my mouth again; I'm sure he didn't want to either.

schplurg · 29th July 2009, 11:32 PM

I had a cavity filled in Brazil a few months ago with no novacaine, or anyhting else for pain.

My Wife's sister is a dentist and she said "It's a small cavity and there is no nerve near the area." The location was one of my top front teeth, kind of in between that one and the tooth next to it, near the gumline.

I was freaked when she told me no novacaine, but I felt nothing. In fact she did another small one in a similar location, opposite side of my mouth.

My $.02

pakeha · 30th July 2009, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Molinaro

Another reminder I could do without! I've had more teeth pulled than I care to admit. Every single freaking one of them had the roots take a 90 degree turn below the gumline. As a result, every freaking one required the dentist to chisel away some of the jaw bone to get that last bit of root out.

I see I am not alone in having had that particular life-enriching experience.

Why do humans have these problems?
I refer to the grotesquely twisted roots and wisdom teeth growing in any direction except where they are 'meant to'.
Cavities=sugar+inadequate cleaning, so I understand.
But the roots and wisdom teeth situation I've never properly understood.

jakesteele · 30th July 2009, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by Debaroo

I had my teeth cleaned last Thursday and much to my disdain on Friday night a filling on my front tooth fell out. I could not keep my tongue off the area - it was jagged and of course it felt like it was 2 feet wide. Looking at myself in the mirror I could not help but think of "hick".

Anyway - I phoned my dentist this morning and was able to get in today to have it repaired. I was expecting the "needle" - and those needles to the front of the tooth are PAINFUL! Feels like it's coming out your nose. The dentist says - no, it's only enamel so no need for freezing.

So - we get into a short conversation about freezing and he tells me about a couple of patients who are into "natural" and "holistics" who refuse freezing (because it's so TOXIC). I say - wow - they must have really good pain tolerance. He says, no. And I say - but, how can you work on someone who is jerking their head around? He says it's really difficult and hard to do a good job.

What is it with these natural-no drug people anyway? Perhaps, before the dentist starts to drill they should be duct taped to the chair so they cannot move.

I am no stranger to the dentist chair and most of the work done on my teeth invovles extremely deep drilling (all my molars are crowned). I could not imagine having that work done without freezing.

I had a wisdom tooth extracted one time - the freezing didn't work - OUCH, OUCH, OUCH.

I think if I was a dentist I'd refuse to work on a patient who refused anesthetic, especially with a deep filling. Imagine drilling into a nerve and the person jerks and flails and the drill could go anywhere. I'm not talking about little bitty cavities - but ones that go into the core of the tooth.

On a related note, my ex is a nurse who works on a neuro ward. One time a tai chi guy that made instructional vids came in with some kind of brain tumor that was easily removed. He insisted that the doctor wash his brain with hydrergen (sp) peroxide as part of some new age philosophy. Very reluctantly the surgeon agreed.

When the guys skull was open and the surgery completed, the doctor began washing with HP when all of a sudden the guys heart stopped and code blue measures were required to bring him back. My ex said that the surgeo was very shaken and upset and vowed to never again listen to a patient making unorthodox requests.

Yes, I think docs/dentists should have a protocol that is followed by the patient. It's for the good of both parties. Even if the 'freeze' stuff might be in the realm of not good for you, I would ask the patient if he's ever been drunk or smoked pot, etc.

Professor Yaffle · 30th July 2009, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by jakesteele

On a related note, my ex is a nurse who works on a neuro ward. One time a tai chi guy that made instructional vids came in with some kind of brain tumor that was easily removed. He insisted that the doctor wash his brain with hydrergen (sp) peroxide as part of some new age philosophy. Very reluctantly the surgeon agreed.

When the guys skull was open and the surgery completed, the doctor began washing with HP when all of a sudden the guys heart stopped and code blue measures were required to bring him back. My ex said that the surgeo was very shaken and upset and vowed to never again listen to a patient making unorthodox requests.

Yes, I think docs/dentists should have a protocol that is followed by the patient. It's for the good of both parties. Even if the 'freeze' stuff might be in the realm of not good for you, I would ask the patient if he's ever been drunk or smoked pot, etc.

He did something on the request of the patient, even though he had no idea what the effect would be?

ETA:

Quote:

HP irreversibly damages mesothelial and neural tissue. Although HP appears to have tumoricidal effects in vitro, it should be used with caution in humans because of risks of collateral injury to surrounding normal brain. HP may prove most beneficial for discrete lesions, such as pituitary tumors and metastases.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...b072c824ab0670

Though it does also say:

Quote:

Hydrogen peroxide (HP) is routinely used during neurosurgical procedures to augment hemostasis after intracranial tissue resection.

So I am a little confused by the story...

richardm · 30th July 2009, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle

Gordon Brown had root canal work without anaesthetic because he had a speech to give later in the day and he didn't want to be dribbling during it.

Eep. Is this Impressive Fortitude or Bad Scheduling?

A few years ago I had work done that involved slicing through the gum, drilling into the jaw and removing a pocket of infection that was causing the problem. I didn't feel a thing.

Initially.

The procedure took a while, and as the stitches were going into my gum the anaesthetic was all but gone. The last three or four were done with as far as I could tell no anesthetic at all. I damn near ripped the arm off his chair, it was so incredibly painful.

Bikewer · 30th July 2009, 10:38 AM

When I was in the army in Germany back in the 60s, I had a situation much as Debaroo described. A front filling departed, and it was quite sensitive. I zipped over to the army dentist, who proved to be a rather heavy-set German lady.
She took a look and got out her drill. The whirring bit (no high-speed stuff back then!) was an inch from my thoroughly-undeadened tooth when I grabbed it with both hands.

"Oh, you want zee shot?"

"Yes, I want zee shot!" ( I restrained myself from saying "You Nazi monster!")

I'm convinced she learned her trade in the camps....

ugot2bekidding · 30th July 2009, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Did you hear about the Buddhist who refused Novocain? He wanted to transcend dental medication.

9/10

I Ratant · 30th July 2009, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by pakeha

I see I am not alone in having had that particular life-enriching experience.

Why do humans have these problems?
I refer to the grotesquely twisted roots and wisdom teeth growing in any direction except where they are 'meant to'.
Cavities=sugar+inadequate cleaning, so I understand.
But the roots and wisdom teeth situation I've never properly understood.

.
It's all part of the "Intelligent Design".
We are not to question the Designer's purposes.

ugot2bekidding · 31st July 2009, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by sackett

faint.

"Quick, Doctor, the needle!" is my rule of life in the dentist's chair.

Are you a redhead?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/07/30...ist/index.html

CaveDave · 2nd August 2009, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Molinaro

Another reminder I could do without! I've had more teeth pulled than I care to admit. Every single freaking one of them had the roots take a 90 degree turn below the gumline. As a result, every freaking one required the dentist to chisel away some of the jaw bone to get that last bit of root out.

A humorous abstract from Neil Stephenson's "Cryptonomicon" tells of Randy Waterhouse's dental nightmare.

ETA: If you come in at the bottom of the comments, scroll to the top of the page to read the quotation.

Cheers,

Dave

theneedtoknow · 3rd August 2009, 05:17 AM

For some reason, the bottom left side of my mouth is immune to the local anasthetics (my grandma has the same problem). I've had 3 cavities there since I was 12, fixed by three different dentists(1st in eastern europe, 2nd and 3rd in Canada), and none of them managed to freeze that part of my mouth (one even injected me a second and third time and still nothing). Getting those cavities fixed have definitely been some of the most painful experiences in my life, but I didn't have a choice...I cannot see how anyone in their right mind would voluntarily feel this pain. It literally feels like a drill reaching into your temples and making them feel like they're about to explode.

cgordon · 3rd August 2009, 11:32 AM

I hate, hate, hate having my teeth worked on. I have had stitches in and bones set without anesthesia, and dealt, but the dentist better damwell put me to sleep. On almost any other part of my body, I have remarkable pain resistance (or indifference, more like), but NOT my teeth.

For my vasectomy, however, the doc (who was a buddy of mine) set me up with Valium and Tylenol 3 prior to the operation, so I was well and happily stoned when he (assisted by my wife, as a matter of fact, she wanted to be sure the op was valid) snipped 'em.

cg

27th July 2009, 07:22 PM	#1
Debaroo Hot Tub Hottie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Somewhere on the 3rd Meridian Posts: 442	Marathon Man? Dentists should refuse the patient. I had my teeth cleaned last Thursday and much to my disdain on Friday night a filling on my front tooth fell out. I could not keep my tongue off the area - it was jagged and of course it felt like it was 2 feet wide. Looking at myself in the mirror I could not help but think of "hick". Anyway - I phoned my dentist this morning and was able to get in today to have it repaired. I was expecting the "needle" - and those needles to the front of the tooth are PAINFUL! Feels like it's coming out your nose. The dentist says - no, it's only enamel so no need for freezing. So - we get into a short conversation about freezing and he tells me about a couple of patients who are into "natural" and "holistics" who refuse freezing (because it's so TOXIC). I say - wow - they must have really good pain tolerance. He says, no. And I say - but, how can you work on someone who is jerking their head around? He says it's really difficult and hard to do a good job. What is it with these natural-no drug people anyway? Perhaps, before the dentist starts to drill they should be duct taped to the chair so they cannot move. I am no stranger to the dentist chair and most of the work done on my teeth invovles extremely deep drilling (all my molars are crowned). I could not imagine having that work done without freezing. I had a wisdom tooth extracted one time - the freezing didn't work - OUCH, OUCH, OUCH. I think if I was a dentist I'd refuse to work on a patient who refused anesthetic, especially with a deep filling. Imagine drilling into a nerve and the person jerks and flails and the drill could go anywhere. I'm not talking about little bitty cavities - but ones that go into the core of the tooth.
	__________________ Furthermore, to have a degree or degrees in biology and to still believe in Darwinian theory, shows ignorance in the worst degree. - Michael Aprile

27th July 2009, 08:53 PM	#2
shandyjan Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N/W England Posts: 1,013	I dont know how they could sit through that without being tied to the chair. Ive had the other side, where the dentist had beliefs. I had a very painful abscess and he didnt believe in antibiotics Doctors tell you to see your dentist, they dont like treating dental problems. He gave in when I cried and howled to get some relief! That dentist was telling me how his wife hypnotised her patients to not bleed during an extraction ..voila, they didnt bleed anywhere near the usual amounts. (His story..not mine'. Needless to say I never went back there!
	__________________ Losing an illusion makes you wiser than finding a truth. ~Ludwig Börne

27th July 2009, 09:02 PM	#3
arthwollipot The Accidental Podcaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: On the other side of your screen. Posts: 28,320	My teeth hurt now. Thanks a lot!
	__________________ The Nonsense Podcast Episode 17: Coming Mid-February. We welcome Lexi Hameister into the world at 1830 on 29 January! What's an "arthwollipot"?

27th July 2009, 09:06 PM	#4
Marduk Dragon Killer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 3,076	I have been to the doctors several times for biposies and the suchlike where usually an anesthetic is required and I have always refused them. My doctor isn't phased in the slightest, she reminds me that it is not NHS policy to offer an injection before such a procedure but NHS policy to give one and jabs me anyway.
	__________________ Senno Ecto Gama ĝae haš dug zae ama kibid "Stupid humans" (Wollery) "Kill all humans" (Bender) "for while heaven may be closed I am always open, even on Christmas." (Lucifer)

27th July 2009, 09:13 PM	#5
Debaroo Hot Tub Hottie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Somewhere on the 3rd Meridian Posts: 442	Originally Posted by Marduk I have been to the doctors several times for biposies and the suchlike where usually an anesthetic is required and I have always refused them. My doctor isn't phased in the slightest, she reminds me that it is not NHS policy to offer an injection before such a procedure but NHS policy to give one and jabs me anyway. Then you have a lot more fortitude than me. By golly...that drill hits my tooth nerve and I will jump in the chair.
	__________________ Furthermore, to have a degree or degrees in biology and to still believe in Darwinian theory, shows ignorance in the worst degree. - Michael Aprile

27th July 2009, 09:22 PM	#6
Debaroo Hot Tub Hottie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Somewhere on the 3rd Meridian Posts: 442	Originally Posted by Marduk I have been to the doctors several times for biposies and the suchlike where usually an anesthetic is required and I have always refused them. My doctor isn't phased in the slightest, she reminds me that it is not NHS policy to offer an injection before such a procedure but NHS policy to give one and jabs me anyway. Just curious - but why do you refuse the anesthetic?
	__________________ Furthermore, to have a degree or degrees in biology and to still believe in Darwinian theory, shows ignorance in the worst degree. - Michael Aprile

27th July 2009, 09:54 PM	#7
Modified Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SW Florida Posts: 1,905	Originally Posted by Debaroo Just curious - but why do you refuse the anesthetic? If he means skin biopsies, then I'm guessing he has a high pain tolerance. Something like that wouldn't bother me at all, but teeth are a different story.

27th July 2009, 09:55 PM	#8
Floyt Chordate Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Dunedin Posts: 754	I used to go without anaesthetics because I'd somehow gotten it into my head that they keep your mouth semi-paralyzed for about a day afterwards, and it always turned out such that I had some important speaking (or actually singing) occasion later that day. I think those shots used to be that way when I was a kid - I remember my brother walking a around like a drooling chow-chow for hours afterwards... Anyway, I always stolidly refused the needle and sat it out (learnt some interesting things about pain thresholds that way). On the last occasion the dentists finally enquired why I was doing this to myself. Turned out shots are a lot more user-friendly these days and leave no trace after an hour or so - duh. I'm sure it was character-forming, though.
	__________________ Science is about finding out which untruths can be asserted so as to make the system tractable, while still achieving an adequate account of what will appear. They had no god; they had no gods; they had no faith. What they appear to have had is a working metaphor. - Ursula K. Le Guin, "Always Coming Home"

27th July 2009, 10:16 PM	#9
Vic Vega Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 595	I can think of only one adult I know who is so afraid of needles that he undergoes dental work without Novocain. He is, believe it or not, a dentist. I kid you not... He has no trouble injecting it into other people, as I know from firsthand experience.
Vic Vega Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 595	__________________ "The sleeping and the dead Are but as pictures. 'Tis the eye of childhood That fears a painted devil." --Shakespeare - Macbeth

28th July 2009, 12:33 AM	#10
arthwollipot The Accidental Podcaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: On the other side of your screen. Posts: 28,320	Did you hear about the Buddhist who refused Novocain? He wanted to transcend dental medication.
	__________________ The Nonsense Podcast Episode 17: Coming Mid-February. We welcome Lexi Hameister into the world at 1830 on 29 January! What's an "arthwollipot"?

28th July 2009, 02:58 AM	#11
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 19,390	It varies a lot. The dentist I had as a child was rather inclined to freeze your whole face, and "SOP" in our family was not to have the anaesthetic. I had quite a lot of fillings as a child without anaesthetic, and it was painful, but I put up with it and didn't jerk my head around. If I had, I believe the dentist would have given me the anaesthetic anyway. For some reason, though, I was more scared of the needle than the drill. Then when I was in my late 20s, I moved house, and coincidentally my new dentist was my old dentist's daughter. She persuaded me to try the anaesthetic, and it wasn't so bad really. I commented that she seemed to be giving much less anaesthetic than her father did, so it was much less painful and intrusive. She laughed and said "oh, Daddy!" It was a generational thing. I've always had the anaesthetic since then, even when I moved back to the original practice 25 years later. There's no "NHS policy". You can have the injection or not, as you choose. Most dentists will assume you want it unless you decline though. (One of the "NHS horror stories" trotted out by someone on one of the healthcare threads was a woman telling a right-wing interviewer that NHS dentistry was all done without anaesthetic. Which was of course a lie.) My mother went right on not having the injections right into old age. So much so that when she had root canal work done, the dentist (a new one, the original guy having retired) didn't offer her an anaesthetic. Which in my opinion was insane. My mother sat through the whole thing, and only told me afterwards how extremely painful it had been. I castigated both her and Karen (the dentist) as a couple of idiots. I could have complained to Karen, but really, my mother should have had the sense to say something herself. However, it does illustrate just what a patient can put up with. And bear that in mind the next time someone tells you how great acupuncture is. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The thing about medicine is, that it all comes down to the numbers." - Dr. Stephen Franklin, Interludes and Examinations. "To give Rolfe his due, I think this is a good example to everyone of what can happen if we fail to get a proper diagnosis and begin treating on symptoms alone--a big mistake, as shown here." - "Snoopy" on H'pathy Forums, apparently abjuring the very fundamentals of homoeopathy after she'd just allowed a young mother with Addison's disease to die.

28th July 2009, 05:59 AM	#12
GlennB Li'l darlin' Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arcadia Posts: 2,544	I had a vasectomy once () and I can only imagine the doctor had fallen asleep in the anaesthesia lectures. Jab this side, jab that side, set to work .... OH DEAR LORD. Then he complained it was like trying to operate while on a North Sea fishing boat in a gale. HE complained ! When it comes to teeth I would anaesthetise myself rather than do without. I tried it once for a shallow filling as a kid. Never again.

28th July 2009, 06:44 AM	#13
Tanja Comfortably Numb Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,700	I once met someone who was a senior officer in the army (in one of the countries of the former Yugoslavia), who had a toothache but couldn't face going to the dentist because he was too scared. He wasn't scared of combat, but he was terrified of the dentist.
Tanja Comfortably Numb Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,700

28th July 2009, 07:43 AM	#14
Molinaro Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,534	Originally Posted by GlennB I had a vasectomy once () and I can only imagine the doctor had fallen asleep in the anaesthesia lectures. Jab this side, jab that side, set to work .... OH DEAR LORD. Then he complained it was like trying to operate while on a North Sea fishing boat in a gale. HE complained ! When it comes to teeth I would anaesthetise myself rather than do without. I tried it once for a shallow filling as a kid. Never again. Thanks for reminding me of the 2 most painfull moments of my life. "Just a little prick", (hey watch your words there doc) to freeze one... And then a while later.. and now the other side... and now I knew what was coming... aaaahhhhhhh!
	__________________ 100% Cannuck!

28th July 2009, 08:14 AM	#15
soylent Muse Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 657	Both my top, front teeth are crowns(I ground them down in my sleep as a child). Those of you who have never had crowns perhaps don't know the procedure, the dentist uses a small, coarse, rotary powertool to grind the teeth down to triangular nubs to fasten the crowns on. It takes about 20 minutes of grinding. The novocain didn't take at all, despite three applications; all it did was make my face feel numb and droop in a comical fashion(at least it was symmetric). I heartily recommend the procedure to aspiring "enhanced interrogation" practioners everywhere. It barely bothers me to drill out a cavity without anasthesia now.
	__________________ "A lot of those lobbyists genuinely like people. But then, fleas like people too." - Mike Munger. Last edited by soylent; 28th July 2009 at 08:16 AM.

28th July 2009, 09:13 AM	#16
alfaniner Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 7,648	I've had so much work done that at times I've fallen asleep in the chair while he's working. With Novocain, but not nitrous oxide - that's the only downside of this dentist. Even though I rarely needed it, I sure liked it.
	__________________ It's pronounced "alpha-nine-er".

28th July 2009, 07:02 PM	#17
LostAngeles Anti-WM Jihadist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Having a cup of tea. Posts: 10,025	I'm not telling the story of my wisdom teeth being removed again, but suffice to say, it took five shots before she simply held my head down and yanked it at the right angle since the root was curved.
	__________________ "There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik

28th July 2009, 07:13 PM	#18
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593	My dentist is "bountifully endowed". When she's working on my teeth, there's other nice soft things that divert my attention.
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593

28th July 2009, 07:33 PM	#19
Molinaro Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,534	Originally Posted by LostAngeles I'm not telling the story of my wisdom teeth being removed again, but suffice to say, it took five shots before she simply held my head down and yanked it at the right angle since the root was curved. Another reminder I could do without! I've had more teeth pulled than I care to admit. Every single freaking one of them had the roots take a 90 degree turn below the gumline. As a result, every freaking one required the dentist to chisel away some of the jaw bone to get that last bit of root out.
	__________________ 100% Cannuck!

28th July 2009, 10:54 PM	#20
UncaYimmy Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,582	Originally Posted by Debaroo Just curious - but why do you refuse the anesthetic? When I was younger (teens into my 30s) I used to refuse it solely as a test of my self control. Back then I figured out that pain was just a warning from your body that something was wrong. Mentally if you acknowledge this you can tolerate quite a bit of pain before the warnings become too intense to resist. Athletically you can accomplish quite a bit with that attitude. To this day I can withstand a lot of pain. In my early teens I also ran a mile in the summer heat with a mouthful of water just to see if I could. Another thing I did turned out to be really stupid. I didn't like that my body reacted to getting burned before I actually felt any pain, so I taught myself to overcome this reaction. To this day I don't automatically jerk my hand away when accidentally grabbing something hot. The pain has to register first, which means I get burned.

28th July 2009, 11:15 PM	#21
Prometheus Liver Donor Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: North of Reality Posts: 28,685	Originally Posted by Debaroo I had my teeth cleaned last Thursday and much to my disdain on Friday night a filling on my front tooth fell out. I could not keep my tongue off the area - it was jagged and of course it felt like it was 2 feet wide. Looking at myself in the mirror I could not help but think of "hick". Anyway - I phoned my dentist this morning and was able to get in today to have it repaired. I was expecting the "needle" - and those needles to the front of the tooth are PAINFUL! Feels like it's coming out your nose. The dentist says - no, it's only enamel so no need for freezing. So - we get into a short conversation about freezing and he tells me about a couple of patients who are into "natural" and "holistics" who refuse freezing (because it's so TOXIC). I say - wow - they must have really good pain tolerance. He says, no. And I say - but, how can you work on someone who is jerking their head around? He says it's really difficult and hard to do a good job. What is it with these natural-no drug people anyway? Perhaps, before the dentist starts to drill they should be duct taped to the chair so they cannot move. I am no stranger to the dentist chair and most of the work done on my teeth invovles extremely deep drilling (all my molars are crowned). I could not imagine having that work done without freezing. I had a wisdom tooth extracted one time - the freezing didn't work - OUCH, OUCH, OUCH. I think if I was a dentist I'd refuse to work on a patient who refused anesthetic, especially with a deep filling. Imagine drilling into a nerve and the person jerks and flails and the drill could go anywhere. I'm not talking about little bitty cavities - but ones that go into the core of the tooth. I once had a tooth drilled without any anaesthetic. I didn't refuse the drugs, though. The dentist asked me whether I wanted any or not, and I was fascinated that he'd asked since always before he'd simply given me the shot without asking. Also, I happened to be taking Daniel Dennett's Philosophy of Mind course that semester, and we had just finished reading "Why You Can't Make A Computer That Feels Pain". Afterwards, I asked him why on earth he'd given me the option and then allowed me to go through that torture. He said he'd intended the question sarcastically and never expected I'd actually forego anaesthesia, but once I said that's what I wanted he was required to accommodate me. Even twenty-something years later I remember that searing pain like it was yesterday.
	__________________ "But then, I'm not a big one for signatures anyway. I can't think of many things that are so clever that they bear repeating in every single post I make." -- Tricky

29th July 2009, 03:39 AM	#22
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 19,390	And yet, I had quite a lot drilled without anaesthetic when I was a child and a teenager, and although I agree it was painful, it hasn't exactly scarred my memory. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The thing about medicine is, that it all comes down to the numbers." - Dr. Stephen Franklin, Interludes and Examinations. "To give Rolfe his due, I think this is a good example to everyone of what can happen if we fail to get a proper diagnosis and begin treating on symptoms alone--a big mistake, as shown here." - "Snoopy" on H'pathy Forums, apparently abjuring the very fundamentals of homoeopathy after she'd just allowed a young mother with Addison's disease to die.

29th July 2009, 05:17 AM	#23
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 7,132	Gordon Brown had root canal work without anaesthetic because he had a speech to give later in the day and he didn't want to be dribbling during it.
	__________________ I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that.

29th July 2009, 07:29 AM	#24
Ocelot Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,795	My cheap butcher of a dentist always gives anaesthetic. Then she gets straight to work. Ouch ouch ouch. The only thing I can say is she's quick. I'm usually all paid up and on the way home in the car before my face starts to go numb. Once I needed emergency treatment and went to a very expensive dentist. He gave anasthetic too. First a gel, which he allowed to soak in so I wouldn't feel the needle. The he waited ten minutes for it to take effect and checked I couldn't feel anything before he started work. He cost more than five times as much and I can't say it was worth the extra (because I just don't have much spare cash) but it was a revelation as to how things should be done. Next time I was at the "butchers" I asked if she could wait a while whislt the anaesthetic kicked in. Made a huge difference.
Ocelot Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,795	__________________ Stop Sylvia Browne

29th July 2009, 07:52 AM	#25
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224	I didn't know "no anaesthetic" was an option until a few years ago, when a dentist offered me the choice. I'll try almost anything once, so I gave it a go. Now, I routinely forego the shot when getting a cavity filled. There are no nerve endings in enamel, and I really don't want the dentist who's drilling the enamel to drill down to where there ARE nerve endings. I like being able to walk out of the dentist's office and eat or drink without drooling all over myself.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224

29th July 2009, 07:53 AM	#26
sackett Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 3,010	Pardon me while I faint. "Quick, Doctor, the needle!" is my rule of life in the dentist's chair.
	__________________ When guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

29th July 2009, 08:53 AM	#27
alfaniner Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 7,648	My current dentist is fantastic. He has a method of getting the Novocain in without it causing any pain at all. With my previous dentist the shot always hurt more than the drilling.
	__________________ It's pronounced "alpha-nine-er".

29th July 2009, 09:07 AM	#28
Pink Booties Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: in your guard, up on points, and stalling. Posts: 3,537	My stepdad is a dentist. He met my mom through a dental appointment she made for all of us... great guy. Anyways, he needed to remove a couple of teeth from my mouth. The first, that was easy enough. Having this dude climb halfway into my mouth, me feeling skittish and claustrophobicky... number two has been the stuff of nightmares all my life. The root, you see, was so long it had wrapped around my jaw in a strange way, and he broke the tooth to remove it. The caaaaaarunch!!! as heard inside my skull was terrifying. When the tooth broke, it exposed the root, and fine streams of my blood shot out of my mouth, making lines down his smock as he worked. I never had him work on my mouth again; I'm sure he didn't want to either.

29th July 2009, 11:32 PM	#29
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: California, USA Posts: 787	I had a cavity filled in Brazil a few months ago with no novacaine, or anyhting else for pain. My Wife's sister is a dentist and she said "It's a small cavity and there is no nerve near the area." The location was one of my top front teeth, kind of in between that one and the tooth next to it, near the gumline. I was freaked when she told me no novacaine, but I felt nothing. In fact she did another small one in a similar location, opposite side of my mouth. My $.02
	__________________ "Got any gum?" - Benjamin Franklin

30th July 2009, 12:29 AM	#30
pakeha Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,099	Originally Posted by Molinaro Another reminder I could do without! I've had more teeth pulled than I care to admit. Every single freaking one of them had the roots take a 90 degree turn below the gumline. As a result, every freaking one required the dentist to chisel away some of the jaw bone to get that last bit of root out. I see I am not alone in having had that particular life-enriching experience. Why do humans have these problems? I refer to the grotesquely twisted roots and wisdom teeth growing in any direction except where they are 'meant to'. Cavities=sugar+inadequate cleaning, so I understand. But the roots and wisdom teeth situation I've never properly understood.
pakeha Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,099

30th July 2009, 05:27 AM	#31
jakesteele Muse Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 521	Originally Posted by Debaroo I had my teeth cleaned last Thursday and much to my disdain on Friday night a filling on my front tooth fell out. I could not keep my tongue off the area - it was jagged and of course it felt like it was 2 feet wide. Looking at myself in the mirror I could not help but think of "hick". Anyway - I phoned my dentist this morning and was able to get in today to have it repaired. I was expecting the "needle" - and those needles to the front of the tooth are PAINFUL! Feels like it's coming out your nose. The dentist says - no, it's only enamel so no need for freezing. So - we get into a short conversation about freezing and he tells me about a couple of patients who are into "natural" and "holistics" who refuse freezing (because it's so TOXIC). I say - wow - they must have really good pain tolerance. He says, no. And I say - but, how can you work on someone who is jerking their head around? He says it's really difficult and hard to do a good job. What is it with these natural-no drug people anyway? Perhaps, before the dentist starts to drill they should be duct taped to the chair so they cannot move. I am no stranger to the dentist chair and most of the work done on my teeth invovles extremely deep drilling (all my molars are crowned). I could not imagine having that work done without freezing. I had a wisdom tooth extracted one time - the freezing didn't work - OUCH, OUCH, OUCH. I think if I was a dentist I'd refuse to work on a patient who refused anesthetic, especially with a deep filling. Imagine drilling into a nerve and the person jerks and flails and the drill could go anywhere. I'm not talking about little bitty cavities - but ones that go into the core of the tooth. On a related note, my ex is a nurse who works on a neuro ward. One time a tai chi guy that made instructional vids came in with some kind of brain tumor that was easily removed. He insisted that the doctor wash his brain with hydrergen (sp) peroxide as part of some new age philosophy. Very reluctantly the surgeon agreed. When the guys skull was open and the surgery completed, the doctor began washing with HP when all of a sudden the guys heart stopped and code blue measures were required to bring him back. My ex said that the surgeo was very shaken and upset and vowed to never again listen to a patient making unorthodox requests. Yes, I think docs/dentists should have a protocol that is followed by the patient. It's for the good of both parties. Even if the 'freeze' stuff might be in the realm of not good for you, I would ask the patient if he's ever been drunk or smoked pot, etc.
jakesteele Muse Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 521	__________________ Beware the Jabberwock, my son!

30th July 2009, 05:37 AM	#32
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 7,132	Originally Posted by jakesteele On a related note, my ex is a nurse who works on a neuro ward. One time a tai chi guy that made instructional vids came in with some kind of brain tumor that was easily removed. He insisted that the doctor wash his brain with hydrergen (sp) peroxide as part of some new age philosophy. Very reluctantly the surgeon agreed. When the guys skull was open and the surgery completed, the doctor began washing with HP when all of a sudden the guys heart stopped and code blue measures were required to bring him back. My ex said that the surgeo was very shaken and upset and vowed to never again listen to a patient making unorthodox requests. Yes, I think docs/dentists should have a protocol that is followed by the patient. It's for the good of both parties. Even if the 'freeze' stuff might be in the realm of not good for you, I would ask the patient if he's ever been drunk or smoked pot, etc. He did something on the request of the patient, even though he had no idea what the effect would be? ETA: Quote: HP irreversibly damages mesothelial and neural tissue. Although HP appears to have tumoricidal effects in vitro, it should be used with caution in humans because of risks of collateral injury to surrounding normal brain. HP may prove most beneficial for discrete lesions, such as pituitary tumors and metastases. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...b072c824ab0670 Though it does also say: Quote: Hydrogen peroxide (HP) is routinely used during neurosurgical procedures to augment hemostasis after intracranial tissue resection. So I am a little confused by the story...
	__________________ I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that. Last edited by Professor Yaffle; 30th July 2009 at 05:45 AM.

30th July 2009, 10:21 AM	#33
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,550	Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle Gordon Brown had root canal work without anaesthetic because he had a speech to give later in the day and he didn't want to be dribbling during it. Eep. Is this Impressive Fortitude or Bad Scheduling? A few years ago I had work done that involved slicing through the gum, drilling into the jaw and removing a pocket of infection that was causing the problem. I didn't feel a thing. Initially. The procedure took a while, and as the stitches were going into my gum the anaesthetic was all but gone. The last three or four were done with as far as I could tell no anesthetic at all. I damn near ripped the arm off his chair, it was so incredibly painful.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,550	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

30th July 2009, 10:38 AM	#34
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 5,249	When I was in the army in Germany back in the 60s, I had a situation much as Debaroo described. A front filling departed, and it was quite sensitive. I zipped over to the army dentist, who proved to be a rather heavy-set German lady. She took a look and got out her drill. The whirring bit (no high-speed stuff back then!) was an inch from my thoroughly-undeadened tooth when I grabbed it with both hands. "Oh, you want zee shot?" "Yes, I want zee shot!" ( I restrained myself from saying "You Nazi monster!") I'm convinced she learned her trade in the camps....

30th July 2009, 10:41 AM	#35
ugot2bekidding Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 333	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Did you hear about the Buddhist who refused Novocain? He wanted to transcend dental medication. 9/10