A Skeptical Stroke: The Confabulating Skeptic

RSLancastr · 29th July 2009, 07:06 PM

The speech I gave at TAM7 was intended to be about my experience with the stroke, the recovery process, and how it all related to being a skeptic. Unfortunately, I ended up cutting most of the skeptic-related material, for the sake of time (and I still went way over time. I have decided to put some of the cut material here in the forum as a series of threads/posts, this being the first.

Like (probably) most here, I try to be a critical thinker, both on my skeptical websites and in real life. I don't always succeed, but I try. Between that and making a living as a computer programmer, clear and logical thinking is very important in my life, so perhaps you can imagine my concern when I learned that I had suffered a substantial stroke, damaging the right hemisphere of my brain (and thus the left side of my body). Would I still be able to make clear and cogent points in my writing? Would I be able to understand (let alone write) computer programs? If not, how would I earn a living? I have made a living as a programmer for more than thirty years at this point, and can scarcely imagine making a living in a different way.

The stroke had hit me physically, but mentally, I lucked out. I had some problems with my short-term memory, and would occasionally be unable to think of the correct word to use in a sentence (largely caused by a dctor's inadvertently doubling the dosage of some psych meds I was taking), but the one mental/psychological symptom which hit me time and again was confabulation.

The simplest definition of confabulation is: false memories. More specifically, a confabulation is the mistaking of a fantasy for the memory of an actual event. In my case, I would wake from a dream, firmly convinced that the dream had actually occurred. This led to some interesting situations, some of which I will relate here.

Go Speed Racer

In the early days after the stroke, I was falling into and out of a coma, and so remember little of what happened. Luckily, my siblings and my wife have filled me in on some of the things I told them upon awakening. One of these, which I evidently told many people, was that I was not in a hospital bed, but was actually in a race car. I now have vague recollections of dreaming that I was driving the Mach v, the race car driven by the hero of the Japanese animated TV series Speed Racer.

How Many Feet?

My sister Trish (not Beeg Seestor) tells me that once, I pointed at something and asked her if she would bring it to me and place it on one of my pairs of feet! This was complicated even further by the fact that I was pointing to a white board on the wall of my hospital room ( The nurses would write their names and phone extensions on it every day. why I felt I needed it on my feet is anyone's guess).

The Mysterious Kitten

Trish also related a story in which I asked her to bring me the kitten with which I insisted the patient in the next bed was playing (He was evidently twiddling his fingers, which I mistook for the legs of a kitten). After checking this out, Trish came back and told me that there was no kitten in the man's bed. She says that I reacted to this news by saying "Okay: kitten, cat, feline - whatever you want to call it, would you please just bring it to me?"

What I find most interesting about this is that even with brain damage, even going in and out of a coma, I still was a sarcastic, pseudo-intellectual smartass. I was still me.

At the Television's Mercy

During this same time period, my wife Susan was visiting me one day and noticed that I seemed upset. When she asked me what was the matter, I told her that the characters in the soap opera I was watching were controlling me via a string they had somehow attached to my penis.

Now, I've been controlled through my penis as much as the next guy, but I don't recall a string ever being involved.

Months later, when Susan related this story to me, my first reaction was "I was watching a soap opera!?"

More confabulation stories later...

catbasket · 29th July 2009, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

... I still was a sarcastic, pseudo-intellectual smartass...

Who are you and what have you done with the real RSL?

ExMinister · 29th July 2009, 07:32 PM

All I can say is that even though you've suffered a stroke and I have not, your post was still written more clearly, logically and coherently than pretty much all of my posts to date.

Looking forward to reading many more...

RSLancastr · 29th July 2009, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by catbasket

Who are you and what have you done with the real RSL?

Thanks, catbasket. Could you take one of thse kittens you're covered with and put it on one of my pairs of feet?

Originally Posted by ExMinister

All I can say is that even though you've suffered a stroke and I have not, your post was still written more clearly, logically and coherently than pretty much all of my posts to date.

Looking forward to reading many more...

You're very kind, ExM. I'm starting to get the hang of posting again. it's a good sign, I think.

AndyD · 29th July 2009, 09:55 PM

Looking forward to this series with much anticipation. Welcome back, again.

Skeptic Ginger · 29th July 2009, 10:04 PM

Fascinating. We learn an incredible amount about the brain from injuries to it. I'm glad you are interested in telling us your experiences.

Apathia · 29th July 2009, 10:24 PM

Great recovery going on there!

Of confabulations, I'm afraid I've had my share of them without the excuse of a stroke.

Glad to see you back in action!

athon · 29th July 2009, 10:41 PM

Wow. That's definitely trippy.

If you don't mind my asking, Robert, are you taking this as an educational experience? I mean, we come across so many people we'd readily label nutcase or crankjob; do you find yourself sympathising a little with their position?

Personally, I'd find it hard not to compare such convincing confabulations that I've experienced with the delusional rantings of others, and try to understand how it is they fall short of realising they're not real.

Athon

RSLancastr · 30th July 2009, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by AndyD

Looking forward to this series with much anticipation. Welcome back, again.

thaile!nks, Andy. But be patient - this will take a wh

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

Fascinating. We learn an incredible amount about the brain from injuries to it. I'm glad you are interested in telling us your experiences.

it wull help me in my attempt to understand them

Originally Posted by Apathia

Great recovery going on there!

Of confabulations, I'm afraid I've had my share of them without the excuse of a stroke.
blame!

well, I can;t be certain that my stroke is to blame!

Glad to see you back in action!

Originally Posted by athon

Wow. That's definitely trippy.

If you don't mind my asking, Robert, are you taking this as an educational experience?[I try to think of all rxperiences as such.

I mean, we come across so many people we'd readily label nutcase or crankjob; do you find yourself sympathising a little with their position?

yes.

Personally, I'd find it hard not to compare such convincing confabulations that I've experienced with the delusional rantings of others, and try to understand how it is they fall short of realising they're not real.

Athon

kittynh · 30th July 2009, 09:16 AM

ohhh thank you for sharing!

I have been dealing with the alien abductees for a bit, and they are sure if they THINK it has happened it HAS happened. They don't get that our brains can make mistakes. Though thinking you are Speed Racer is pretty cool.

Watching a Soap Opera... oh boy...you really were whack job.

As for the kitten, hey, I'd want to play with the kitten.

shandyjan · 30th July 2009, 10:14 AM

'Confabulations'. Fascinating. And I'm sure some people do think they really happened. Even when they are as far fetched as string from the tv and extra feet!
Its surprising what tv you will watch..and I hate to say it..enjoy.. when you arnt quite yourself

The Central Scrutinizer · 30th July 2009, 11:30 AM

My dad passed away last September. Sadly, he wasted away for the last 2-3 months of his life. While your brain is going in the right direction - healing - his was shutting down with the rest of his body. But the things you posted certainly rang a bell - there were times when he swore there was a dog or cat sitting in the corner, or my mom was a nursing home employee, or he was going on some trip to the moon or something.

It's odd how our brains work, or try to work, especially when damaged.

Denver · 30th July 2009, 11:47 AM

It doesn't even require a damaging event to cause these kinds of issues. This can occur due to elderly dementia. Or elderly medication to treat other things. My mom is going through this now, and there is no end to the confabulations (or hallucinations) that can reveal themselves.

Sherlock · 30th July 2009, 12:59 PM

It is interesting to note that a VERY high (estimate 70%) of psychic/intuitive web sites mention that they suddenly became "psychic" after suffering head injuries. One of my favorite's is the claim of Oregon's "psychic detective" Laurie McQuary who has claimed she began seeing aircraft crashes before they crashed after falling off a horse and sustaining a "three week coma". Amazingly when she was recently interviewed by another psychic on a webcast that psychic indicated that she too suffered from a head injury prior to "becoming aware".

But I must note that this "three week coma" is quite likely another of her many creative stories. See http://www.amindformurder.com/OregonPolicePsychic.htm

Recent medical research has concluded those who experience multi-colored auras likely do so as a result of synaesthesia, visual disorders, epilepsy, or a brain disorder. Apparently a good many psychics may fall off ladders, boats, roofs, or sometimes fall down stairs or get knocked off a horse.

Fortunately among those that do fall virtually all keep anchored to the real world and are sensible enough to avoid exaggerated claims. Others start careers by creating fantasy claims or making assertions about community tragedies while absolutely refusing to be tested for the very paranormal powers they suddenly allege.

Glad even our resident skeptic can recognize the difference!

ObscureReferenceMan · 30th July 2009, 01:12 PM

Wow! That's some wacky stop, Robert. The brain is a strange place, to be sure.

By the way... Do you (or does anyone) have video of your TAM talk? I'd love to see it.

Senex · 30th July 2009, 01:41 PM

Hi Robert, it is so good to have you back.

I may never have suffered from confabulation but my poor sleep hygeine has frequently made me dream of the infomercials on the TV I should shut off before falling asleep. I dream of arguing with real estate agents, knife, baseball card, BS sales website, and stamp salesman. Those nightmarish rascals never had my penis on a string -- but they are much less attractive as those Soap Opera heroines

or Villainesses

I look forward to more of your posts.

Minarvia · 30th July 2009, 02:01 PM

It's great to have you back, Robert! I remember my dad after one of his strokes saying that he was in an airplane, that the year was 1850, the nurses were conspiring against him by feeding him little metal balls, and other odd things. When he recovered he laughed so hard when we told him.

Yep, the brain is really weird.

Doubt · 30th July 2009, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

Now, I've been controlled through my penis as much as the next guy, but I don't recall a string ever being involved.

Months later, when Susan related this story to me, my first reaction was "I was watching a soap opera!?"

More confabulation stories later...

Of course you were watching it.

"It watches the show or we pull the string again!"

Kritikos · 30th July 2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

What I find most interesting about this is that even with brain damage, even going in and out of a coma, I still was a sarcastic, pseudo-intellectual smartass. I was still me.

You remind me of Samuel Johnson's account of his stroke:

Quote:

Thus I went to bed, and in a short time waked and sat up, as has long been my custom, when I felt a confusion and indistinctness in my head, which lasted, I suppose, about half a minute. I was alarmed, and prayed God, that however he might afflict my body, he would spare my understanding. This prayer, that I might try the integrity of my faculties, I made in Latin verse. The lines were not very good, but I knew them not to be very good: I made them easily, and concluded myself to be unimpaired in my faculties.

--Samuel Johnson, letter of 19 June 1783 to Mrs. Thrale, in James Boswell, The Life of Samuel Johnson.

RSLancastr · 1st August 2009, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by athon

Wow. That's definitely trippy.

If you don't mind my asking, Robert, are you taking this as an educational experience? I mean, we come across so many people we'd readily label nutcase or crankjob; do you find yourself sympathising a little with their position?

Personally, I'd find it hard not to compare such convincing confabulations that I've experienced with the delusional rantings of others, and try to understand how it is they fall short of realising they're not real.

Athon

Athon, during the cofabulations, I thought many times of the parallels between them and the woo beliefs we often see here. I think it

Maia · 1st August 2009, 05:05 PM

Hi Robert!

I haven't been on here very long, but I wish you wonderfully well.
Confabulation can also refer to a slightly different psychological construct... not false memories or mistaking fantasies for actual events, but something the brain seems to do in the dissociative disorders. It's as if evidence that would otherwise lead to the executive personality becoming aware of time loss, dissociative amnesia, alters, etc., is made unavailable to the exec self, but generally not by substituting or creating false information. Fascinating stuff. It would be interesting to know exactly what kind of relationship this phenomenon has to CVA-related confabulation. I've worked with both types of clients and I can't say that I really have any clear idea.

aggle-rithm · 1st August 2009, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

The simplest definition of confabulation is: false memories. More specifically, a confabulation is the mistaking of a fantasy for the memory of an actual event. In my case, I would wake from a dream, firmly convinced that the dream had actually occurred. This led to some interesting situations, some of which I will relate here.
..

My wife had the same problem when she was working the graveyard shift, probably due to sleep deprivation. Once she awoke from a nap and was convinced that we had bought tickets to fly on a blimp in California, but had forgotten to go. Now she was extremely concerned that we had wasted all that money.

She was fully awake when she told me this. I told her in no uncertain terms, THIS NEVER HAPPENED. After a while she took my word for it, but found it very confusing.

aggle-rithm · 1st August 2009, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Maia

Hi Robert!

I haven't been on here very long, but I wish you wonderfully well.
Confabulation can also refer to a slightly different psychological construct... not false memories or mistaking fantasies for actual events, but something the brain seems to do in the dissociative disorders. It's as if evidence that would otherwise lead to the executive personality becoming aware of time loss, dissociative amnesia, alters, etc., is made unavailable to the exec self, but generally not by substituting or creating false information. Fascinating stuff. It would be interesting to know exactly what kind of relationship this phenomenon has to CVA-related confabulation. I've worked with both types of clients and I can't say that I really have any clear idea.

From what I've read and experienced, it is usually people who are energetic and outgoing who confabulate, at least on a verbal level. My uncle died of Alzheimer's a number of years ago, and in the throes of the disease he confabulated constantly and vocally, long after he lost the ability to form cogent sentence structures. It's as if people want to keep their minds active even though they are no longer working properly.

RSLancastr · 1st August 2009, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Maia

Hi Robert!

I haven't been on here very long, but I wish you wonderfully well.
Confabulation can also refer to a slightly different psychological construct... not false memories or mistaking fantasies for actual events, but something the brain seems to do in the dissociative disorders. It's as if evidence that would otherwise lead to the executive personality becoming aware of time loss, dissociative amnesia, alters, etc., is made unavailable to the exec self, but generally not by substituting or creating false information. Fascinating stuff. It would be interesting to know exactly what kind of relationship this phenomenon has to CVA-related confabulation. I've worked with both types of clients and I can't say that I really have any clear idea.

Interesting, Maia! it was odd how my confidence in my confabulations kept me from believing people who tried to talk me out of them.

arthwollipot · 1st August 2009, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by kittynh

Watching a Soap Opera... oh boy...you really were whack job.

It's surprising what you'll stoop to when you've been in a hospital for the eight months.

RSL's better half · 1st August 2009, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

It's surprising what you'll stoop to when you've been in a hospital for the eight months.

It was 5 days shy of 11 months in hospital. And, after a month of being home, we are coming up on the 1 year anniversary of the scariest event of my life. August 4th.

Foolmewunz · 2nd August 2009, 06:56 AM

RSL,
This is a great thread in so many ways.

My mom went through a much slighter (I know - there I go using the techinical terminology again) stroke than you, but she had great moments of confabulation, too. My favorite being the nurse who was making her put her toes (mom's) too close together. They were touching each other (as do all toes, as everyone knows).

She made me pleat the bedsheet and put some sheet between each toe so they wouldn't touch... just to "show that b**** ". I tried to discuss it with her, but ultimately it was easier to just stuff some sheeting between the toes.

More important as related to this thread, though, was that we knew she was recovering when we could sit around and discuss these incidents with her some months later and laugh together.

Monketey Ghost · 2nd August 2009, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

*snip*

How Many Feet?

My sister Trish (not Beeg Seestor) tells me that once, I pointed at something and asked her if she would bring it to me and place it on one of my pairs of feet! This was complicated even further by the fact that I was pointing to a white board on the wall of my hospital room ( The nurses would write their names and phone extensions on it every day. why I felt I needed it on my feet is anyone's guess).

*snip*

Sounds like every experience I've had working with patients on the stroke unit.

"No, there's nobody over there, that's a wall."

"No, you can't leave until the doctors say it's green-light. You're in a hospital bed, you're a patient."

"No, you don't need to go out that window. Nothing but a seven story drop to the pavement out that way, buddy."

"Stop calling me by your wife's name."

I know there's a sense of embarrassment afterwards, during the real recovery phase: I've been stupid, and talking nonsense. I try to get one idea through to people and that is that it happens to everyone who has a hard stroke. One gal I worked with for some weeks, her husband said she had a great sense of humor, and suggested it, so we started to keep a little list of the stuff she'd say. He said when she was recovered, she'd laugh her ass off... never did find out.

On her way off the unit, however, I saw her as I was walking in. She passed by as her hubby pushed her in a wheelchair. She gave me a very happy grin.

"Hey! Discharge today? Great! Keep improving!"

to which she responded, in a slow, weak voice, with an equally big grin,

"Goooo to helllllll."

Maia · 2nd August 2009, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

Interesting, Maia! it was odd how my confidence in my confabulations kept me from believing people who tried to talk me out of them.

The... reality they've created, I guess... does seem very real to clients with the dissociative disorders as well, even though the confabulating itself definitely is a different phemomenon. But it really is as if the ability to confabulate might be something which the brain can draw on for a lot of different reasons. This is definitely going out on a limb a bit... but I wonder if it's *always* an attempt on the part of the brain to protect itself from the knowledge of what's happened to it. There is so much physiological change involved with the neurobiology of the DD's, particularly in the more severe forms. The DSM-IV-TR actually acknowledges this in the definition now (pretty amazing, I think!) So it's maybe not as far from post-stroke status as it seems.

Soapy Sam · 2nd August 2009, 10:28 AM

Scepticism is all very well, Robert- but did you actually check for string?

supercorgi · 2nd August 2009, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

My dad passed away last September. Sadly, he wasted away for the last 2-3 months of his life. While your brain is going in the right direction - healing - his was shutting down with the rest of his body. But the things you posted certainly rang a bell - there were times when he swore there was a dog or cat sitting in the corner, or my mom was a nursing home employee, or he was going on some trip to the moon or something.

It's odd how our brains work, or try to work, especially when damaged.

I had a similar experience with my dad who had twice had a brain tumor removed. He never recovered and was in a nursing home for years. When he was in the hospital, he was convinced that the tracks in the ceiling (the one the privacy curtains hang on) were in fact supports where they would string his body up suspended like from the book Coma - must have been terrifying for him.

When in the nursing home, he often thought wild animals (lions and tigers and such) were roaming the halls at night. He often went back in time, thought he was doing jobs or things he had done in the past.

I have myself woken from dreams that were so realistic that for awhile I thought the things in the dreams actually happened. The brain is a strange thing and we are only gradually figuring out how it functions (and misfunctions).

Miss_Kitt · 2nd August 2009, 11:21 PM

How interesting, Robert!! I hope you can, in a year or less, put together a magazine article on your experience of being a stroke patient. As several posters have suggested, having had convincing but untrue memories gives one a lot more empathy for people with wild claims.

I have had a hypnogogic (?or hypnopompic, I still get them mixed up) hallucination that was absolutely realistic and believable, and seemed to me to be real for years afterwards. Being whom I am, I kept the memory mentally stored under "No explanation yet" and didn't change my entire worldview because of one event. Years later, reading an issue of Skeptical Inquirer (when it was still in the little format -- thanks, Gilmar, for lending them to me!) I discovered sleep-related hallucinations and instantly recognized what the apparent Hellhound in my backyard had been. In many ways the combination of that vivid, impossible event and of finding a reasonable explanation have made me the skeptic I am today.

I can, sadly, also report that alcohol-related brain damage can lead to confabulation. My Dad is progressing fairly rapidly down the whirlpool of booze-induced brain failure, and you can't trust a thing he says. For instance he told my stepmom that my sister had "called to say she was flying down to Los Angeles for the weekend." The only truth to that was that my sister had called, and asked for my stepmom to call back. When he was in an automobile accident he repeatedly denied that he had done so--even though he had not been drinking at the time of his accident, they did a blood alcohol level check--despite there being numerous witnesses and, more damningly, a piece of Dad's front grille left in the other car. Even when looking at the hole in his vehicle and the corresponding piece in the evidence bag, he denied that it had been him. He was not lying; he genuinely thought he had been driving on a different road. Sad, but true.

The brain is an interesting organ, and its misfires are as fascinating (at least!) as its normal function.

Good to see you posting again, hugs, Miss_Kitt

RSLancastr · 3rd August 2009, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

Scepticism is all very well, Robert- but did you actually check for string?

eah. it was a catheter.

JoeTheJuggler · 3rd August 2009, 06:03 AM

Great to hear this, Robert. Thanks for giving us non-TAM attending folks a little taste of your talk.

Whenever I'm feverish, I get really strange ideas (that really seem real at the time). Stuff like a powerful emotional distress over the print on a bedspread (something to do with "too many coins"). As a child, I also used to have full-blown visual hallucinations (I would see people where I knew there were no people--and no sound). Of the two, the fever-brained delusions, although much more outlandish, were much more difficult to distinguish from reality when they were going on.

Originally Posted by amindformurder

It is interesting to note that a VERY high (estimate 70%) of psychic/intuitive web sites mention that they suddenly became "psychic" after suffering head injuries.

That sounds plausible, but do you have a source for this?

Silly Green Monkey · 3rd August 2009, 07:55 AM

I hallucinated during a high fever once, it was dark and I was covered so I thought I was some kind of root. very very hot root, trying to be cooler.

Ixion · 3rd August 2009, 10:36 AM

I have also had very strange delusions during a high fever when I was a teenager. I had gone camping on the beach with the Boy Scouts. Sometime after the sun had set I started not feeling well. I was burning up. I had walked down the beach with a couple of the other guys about a half a mile and decided I needed to go back to camp. I started walking back alone (very dangerous but I wasn't thinking straight and the other guys didn't really know I was ill and figured a half a mile on an open beach was no big deal). I could tell something was not right and I was so hot. I kept having the vision that I should be walking into the ocean and floating on the waves and the cool water would draw the heat from me in a leech-like fashion until I was cool again, but until that happened I knew that it would be possible to just float forever on the waves, right on top like a raft, with no aid.
Of course, I was walking in and out of the surf at night, and when the cool water hit my legs I would temporarily snap back to reality and I would get an urgency to go back to camp. I made it back and crashed in the tent. The next day when we broke camp, I mentioned to the Scout director I wasn't feeling well, who passed it on to my mother when she picked me up. She measured my temperature when I got home, and it was 104 F. I spent 3 more days in bed. No one else from the camp got sick and we never determined the cause. I just remember how vivid this feeling was, that I could float forever, and convinced it was true. Silly Green Monkey's post reminded me of this.

ponderingturtle · 3rd August 2009, 11:11 AM

This reminds me of one of the weirder calls I had as an EMT. We were taking a patient back to the nursing home from the emergency room, and he suddenly remarked that it was a strange coincidence that I had the sam last name as him. Now given that I did not I found this strange as well. He also wanted to know where we were going on the bus, not realizing it was an ambulance.

I figured out why he thought he was talking to someone with the same last name, he was talking to his son and did not recognise him and then did not realize that the person he was talking to had changed.

I really hope he got better.

borealys · 3rd August 2009, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt

How interesting, Robert!! I hope you can, in a year or less, put together a magazine article on your experience of being a stroke patient. As several posters have suggested, having had convincing but untrue memories gives one a lot more empathy for people with wild claims.

Not only that, but I can imagine an article of that sort as being a good read for patients and families going through stroke rehab. Instead of feeling stupid about the confabulations, which some people do, they could laugh about it, and use it as a jumping point for sharing their own stories in support groups and language rehab groups and the like.

*wonders if anyone's written anything like that before ... must look into it.*

I can't remember ever having been convinced that something I'd dreamed was real, but I do remember once, when I was in high school, spending the better part of a day trying to remember if my grandfather was alive or not. In a dream I'd had the night before, he was dead, and when I woke up, I could not figure out whether that aspect of the dream was part of the dream or part of real life. I wanted to ask someone, but could imagine all too well how my parents would have reacted.

(Happy to say that Grandad is alive to this day.)

Locknar · 4th August 2009, 05:16 AM

"RSL! RSL! RSL!" First and foremost, it is fantastic you continue to progess..and that you are back! A similar chant of "RSL's better half! x 3", I'm sure you have heard it before but it is worth repeating - you are amazing!

As to confabulation...false memory is strange stuff. My Grandmother experienced it to an extent, convinced her husband (who had died 4 years earlier) was in the back room of their house playing cards with space aliens.

RSL's better half · 4th August 2009, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by ObscureReferenceMan

Wow! That's some wacky stop, Robert. The brain is a strange place, to be sure.

By the way... Do you (or does anyone) have video of your TAM talk? I'd love to see it.

I don't, ORM. but if this is like previous TAMs, a DVD set will be available later this year.

29th July 2009, 07:06 PM	#1
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,543	A Skeptical Stroke: The Confabulating Skeptic The speech I gave at TAM7 was intended to be about my experience with the stroke, the recovery process, and how it all related to being a skeptic. Unfortunately, I ended up cutting most of the skeptic-related material, for the sake of time (and I still went way over time. I have decided to put some of the cut material here in the forum as a series of threads/posts, this being the first. Like (probably) most here, I try to be a critical thinker, both on my skeptical websites and in real life. I don't always succeed, but I try. Between that and making a living as a computer programmer, clear and logical thinking is very important in my life, so perhaps you can imagine my concern when I learned that I had suffered a substantial stroke, damaging the right hemisphere of my brain (and thus the left side of my body). Would I still be able to make clear and cogent points in my writing? Would I be able to understand (let alone write) computer programs? If not, how would I earn a living? I have made a living as a programmer for more than thirty years at this point, and can scarcely imagine making a living in a different way. The stroke had hit me physically, but mentally, I lucked out. I had some problems with my short-term memory, and would occasionally be unable to think of the correct word to use in a sentence (largely caused by a dctor's inadvertently doubling the dosage of some psych meds I was taking), but the one mental/psychological symptom which hit me time and again was confabulation. The simplest definition of confabulation is: false memories. More specifically, a confabulation is the mistaking of a fantasy for the memory of an actual event. In my case, I would wake from a dream, firmly convinced that the dream had actually occurred. This led to some interesting situations, some of which I will relate here. Go Speed Racer In the early days after the stroke, I was falling into and out of a coma, and so remember little of what happened. Luckily, my siblings and my wife have filled me in on some of the things I told them upon awakening. One of these, which I evidently told many people, was that I was not in a hospital bed, but was actually in a race car. I now have vague recollections of dreaming that I was driving the Mach v, the race car driven by the hero of the Japanese animated TV series Speed Racer. How Many Feet? My sister Trish (not Beeg Seestor) tells me that once, I pointed at something and asked her if she would bring it to me and place it on one of my pairs of feet! This was complicated even further by the fact that I was pointing to a white board on the wall of my hospital room ( The nurses would write their names and phone extensions on it every day. why I felt I needed it on my feet is anyone's guess). The Mysterious Kitten Trish also related a story in which I asked her to bring me the kitten with which I insisted the patient in the next bed was playing (He was evidently twiddling his fingers, which I mistook for the legs of a kitten). After checking this out, Trish came back and told me that there was no kitten in the man's bed. She says that I reacted to this news by saying "Okay: kitten, cat, feline - whatever you want to call it, would you please just bring it to me?" What I find most interesting about this is that even with brain damage, even going in and out of a coma, I still was a sarcastic, pseudo-intellectual smartass. I was still me. At the Television's Mercy During this same time period, my wife Susan was visiting me one day and noticed that I seemed upset. When she asked me what was the matter, I told her that the characters in the soap opera I was watching were controlling me via a string they had somehow attached to my penis. Now, I've been controlled through my penis as much as the next guy, but I don't recall a string ever being involved. Months later, when Susan related this story to me, my first reaction was "I was watching a soap opera!?" More confabulation stories later...
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

29th July 2009, 07:24 PM	#2
catbasket atheist godfather Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The naughty step Posts: 1,486	Originally Posted by RSLancastr ... I still was a sarcastic, pseudo-intellectual smartass... Who are you and what have you done with the real RSL?
	__________________ Mathew 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

29th July 2009, 07:32 PM	#3
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	All I can say is that even though you've suffered a stroke and I have not, your post was still written more clearly, logically and coherently than pretty much all of my posts to date. Looking forward to reading many more...
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	__________________ www.stopsylvia.com

29th July 2009, 08:08 PM	#4
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,543	Originally Posted by catbasket Who are you and what have you done with the real RSL? Thanks, catbasket. Could you take one of thse kittens you're covered with and put it on one of my pairs of feet? Originally Posted by ExMinister All I can say is that even though you've suffered a stroke and I have not, your post was still written more clearly, logically and coherently than pretty much all of my posts to date. Looking forward to reading many more... You're very kind, ExM. I'm starting to get the hang of posting again. it's a good sign, I think.
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

29th July 2009, 09:55 PM	#5
AndyD Muse Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 527	Looking forward to this series with much anticipation. Welcome back, again.
AndyD Muse Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 527	__________________ Australian Vaccination Network (AVN) Perth homeopaths

29th July 2009, 10:04 PM	#6
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,581	Fascinating. We learn an incredible amount about the brain from injuries to it. I'm glad you are interested in telling us your experiences.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

29th July 2009, 10:24 PM	#7
Apathia Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 2,937	Great recovery going on there! Of confabulations, I'm afraid I've had my share of them without the excuse of a stroke. Glad to see you back in action!
	__________________ "At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections." Justice William O. Douglas "Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures." Author Unknown

29th July 2009, 10:41 PM	#8
athon Kowalski Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: gone Posts: 9,286	Wow. That's definitely trippy. If you don't mind my asking, Robert, are you taking this as an educational experience? I mean, we come across so many people we'd readily label nutcase or crankjob; do you find yourself sympathising a little with their position? Personally, I'd find it hard not to compare such convincing confabulations that I've experienced with the delusional rantings of others, and try to understand how it is they fall short of realising they're not real. Athon

30th July 2009, 06:54 AM	#9
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,543	Originally Posted by AndyD Looking forward to this series with much anticipation. Welcome back, again. thaile!nks, Andy. But be patient - this will take a wh Originally Posted by skeptigirl Fascinating. We learn an incredible amount about the brain from injuries to it. I'm glad you are interested in telling us your experiences. it wull help me in my attempt to understand them Originally Posted by Apathia Great recovery going on there! Of confabulations, I'm afraid I've had my share of them without the excuse of a stroke. blame! well, I can;t be certain that my stroke is to blame! Glad to see you back in action! Originally Posted by athon Wow. That's definitely trippy. If you don't mind my asking, Robert, are you taking this as an educational experience?[I try to think of all rxperiences as such. I mean, we come across so many people we'd readily label nutcase or crankjob; do you find yourself sympathising a little with their position? yes. Personally, I'd find it hard not to compare such convincing confabulations that I've experienced with the delusional rantings of others, and try to understand how it is they fall short of realising they're not real. Athon
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

30th July 2009, 09:16 AM	#10
kittynh The Hupsu Detective auctioneer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: If I told the aliens could find me, and you know they read this forum Posts: 22,707	ohhh thank you for sharing! I have been dealing with the alien abductees for a bit, and they are sure if they THINK it has happened it HAS happened. They don't get that our brains can make mistakes. Though thinking you are Speed Racer is pretty cool. Watching a Soap Opera... oh boy...you really were whack job. As for the kitten, hey, I'd want to play with the kitten.
	__________________ WWW.BADALIEN.ORG - not all the buttons work yet, and the science content is coming...but it's ALIVE!

30th July 2009, 10:14 AM	#11
shandyjan Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N/W England Posts: 2,111	'Confabulations'. Fascinating. And I'm sure some people do think they really happened. Even when they are as far fetched as string from the tv and extra feet! Its surprising what tv you will watch..and I hate to say it..enjoy.. when you arnt quite yourself
	__________________ Belief is the wound that knowledge heals. Ursula K. LeGuin's A dog is for life, not just for xmas!

30th July 2009, 11:30 AM	#12
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,277	My dad passed away last September. Sadly, he wasted away for the last 2-3 months of his life. While your brain is going in the right direction - healing - his was shutting down with the rest of his body. But the things you posted certainly rang a bell - there were times when he swore there was a dog or cat sitting in the corner, or my mom was a nursing home employee, or he was going on some trip to the moon or something. It's odd how our brains work, or try to work, especially when damaged.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

30th July 2009, 11:47 AM	#13
Denver Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 6,602	It doesn't even require a damaging event to cause these kinds of issues. This can occur due to elderly dementia. Or elderly medication to treat other things. My mom is going through this now, and there is no end to the confabulations (or hallucinations) that can reveal themselves.

30th July 2009, 12:59 PM	#14
Sherlock Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 425	Percentage of "injured" psychics is high It is interesting to note that a VERY high (estimate 70%) of psychic/intuitive web sites mention that they suddenly became "psychic" after suffering head injuries. One of my favorite's is the claim of Oregon's "psychic detective" Laurie McQuary who has claimed she began seeing aircraft crashes before they crashed after falling off a horse and sustaining a "three week coma". Amazingly when she was recently interviewed by another psychic on a webcast that psychic indicated that she too suffered from a head injury prior to "becoming aware". But I must note that this "three week coma" is quite likely another of her many creative stories. See http://www.amindformurder.com/OregonPolicePsychic.htm Recent medical research has concluded those who experience multi-colored auras likely do so as a result of synaesthesia, visual disorders, epilepsy, or a brain disorder. Apparently a good many psychics may fall off ladders, boats, roofs, or sometimes fall down stairs or get knocked off a horse. Fortunately among those that do fall virtually all keep anchored to the real world and are sensible enough to avoid exaggerated claims. Others start careers by creating fantasy claims or making assertions about community tragedies while absolutely refusing to be tested for the very paranormal powers they suddenly allege. Glad even our resident skeptic can recognize the difference!
Sherlock Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 425

30th July 2009, 01:12 PM	#15
ObscureReferenceMan Muse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 569	Wow! That's some wacky stop, Robert. The brain is a strange place, to be sure. By the way... Do you (or does anyone) have video of your TAM talk? I'd love to see it.
	__________________ Mrs. T: What does it presage? Mrs. O: You have green, scaly skin, and a soft yellow underbelly with a series of fin-like ridges running down your spine and tail. Although lizardlike in shape, you can grow anything up to thirty feet in length with huge teeth that can bite off great rocks and trees. You inhabit arid sub-tropical zones and wear spectacles. Mrs. T: It's very good about the spectacles!

30th July 2009, 01:41 PM	#16
Senex Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: An autobody repair shop in Connecticut Posts: 3,548	Hi Robert, it is so good to have you back. I may never have suffered from confabulation but my poor sleep hygeine has frequently made me dream of the infomercials on the TV I should shut off before falling asleep. I dream of arguing with real estate agents, knife, baseball card, BS sales website, and stamp salesman. Those nightmarish rascals never had my penis on a string -- but they are much less attractive as those Soap Opera heroines or Villainesses I look forward to more of your posts.
	__________________ I am the one who knocks! Walter White Last edited by Senex; 30th July 2009 at 01:45 PM.

30th July 2009, 02:01 PM	#17
Minarvia fading orb Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,212	It's great to have you back, Robert! I remember my dad after one of his strokes saying that he was in an airplane, that the year was 1850, the nurses were conspiring against him by feeding him little metal balls, and other odd things. When he recovered he laughed so hard when we told him. Yep, the brain is really weird.

30th July 2009, 02:10 PM	#18
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 5,447	Originally Posted by RSLancastr Now, I've been controlled through my penis as much as the next guy, but I don't recall a string ever being involved. Months later, when Susan related this story to me, my first reaction was "I was watching a soap opera!?" More confabulation stories later... Of course you were watching it. "It watches the show or we pull the string again!"
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 5,447	__________________ Doubt world tour locations: Mostly home for now. No international travel scheduled other than the Galapagos trip in March. Disclaimer: Not a high energy scientist!

30th July 2009, 02:38 PM	#19
Kritikos Thinker Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cambridge, Mass. Posts: 131	Originally Posted by RSLancastr What I find most interesting about this is that even with brain damage, even going in and out of a coma, I still was a sarcastic, pseudo-intellectual smartass. I was still me. You remind me of Samuel Johnson's account of his stroke: Quote: Thus I went to bed, and in a short time waked and sat up, as has long been my custom, when I felt a confusion and indistinctness in my head, which lasted, I suppose, about half a minute. I was alarmed, and prayed God, that however he might afflict my body, he would spare my understanding. This prayer, that I might try the integrity of my faculties, I made in Latin verse. The lines were not very good, but I knew them not to be very good: I made them easily, and concluded myself to be unimpaired in my faculties. --Samuel Johnson, letter of 19 June 1783 to Mrs. Thrale, in James Boswell, The Life of Samuel Johnson.

1st August 2009, 04:16 PM	#20
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,543	Originally Posted by athon Wow. That's definitely trippy. If you don't mind my asking, Robert, are you taking this as an educational experience? I mean, we come across so many people we'd readily label nutcase or crankjob; do you find yourself sympathising a little with their position? Personally, I'd find it hard not to compare such convincing confabulations that I've experienced with the delusional rantings of others, and try to understand how it is they fall short of realising they're not real. Athon Athon, during the cofabulations, I thought many times of the parallels between them and the woo beliefs we often see here. I think it
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

1st August 2009, 05:05 PM	#21
Maia Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,261	Hi Robert! I haven't been on here very long, but I wish you wonderfully well. Confabulation can also refer to a slightly different psychological construct... not false memories or mistaking fantasies for actual events, but something the brain seems to do in the dissociative disorders. It's as if evidence that would otherwise lead to the executive personality becoming aware of time loss, dissociative amnesia, alters, etc., is made unavailable to the exec self, but generally not by substituting or creating false information. Fascinating stuff. It would be interesting to know exactly what kind of relationship this phenomenon has to CVA-related confabulation. I've worked with both types of clients and I can't say that I really have any clear idea.

1st August 2009, 05:27 PM	#22
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	Originally Posted by RSLancastr The simplest definition of confabulation is: false memories. More specifically, a confabulation is the mistaking of a fantasy for the memory of an actual event. In my case, I would wake from a dream, firmly convinced that the dream had actually occurred. This led to some interesting situations, some of which I will relate here. .. My wife had the same problem when she was working the graveyard shift, probably due to sleep deprivation. Once she awoke from a nap and was convinced that we had bought tickets to fly on a blimp in California, but had forgotten to go. Now she was extremely concerned that we had wasted all that money. She was fully awake when she told me this. I told her in no uncertain terms, THIS NEVER HAPPENED. After a while she took my word for it, but found it very confusing.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

1st August 2009, 05:33 PM	#23
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	Originally Posted by Maia Hi Robert! I haven't been on here very long, but I wish you wonderfully well. Confabulation can also refer to a slightly different psychological construct... not false memories or mistaking fantasies for actual events, but something the brain seems to do in the dissociative disorders. It's as if evidence that would otherwise lead to the executive personality becoming aware of time loss, dissociative amnesia, alters, etc., is made unavailable to the exec self, but generally not by substituting or creating false information. Fascinating stuff. It would be interesting to know exactly what kind of relationship this phenomenon has to CVA-related confabulation. I've worked with both types of clients and I can't say that I really have any clear idea. From what I've read and experienced, it is usually people who are energetic and outgoing who confabulate, at least on a verbal level. My uncle died of Alzheimer's a number of years ago, and in the throes of the disease he confabulated constantly and vocally, long after he lost the ability to form cogent sentence structures. It's as if people want to keep their minds active even though they are no longer working properly.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

1st August 2009, 08:12 PM	#24
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,543	Originally Posted by Maia Hi Robert! I haven't been on here very long, but I wish you wonderfully well. Confabulation can also refer to a slightly different psychological construct... not false memories or mistaking fantasies for actual events, but something the brain seems to do in the dissociative disorders. It's as if evidence that would otherwise lead to the executive personality becoming aware of time loss, dissociative amnesia, alters, etc., is made unavailable to the exec self, but generally not by substituting or creating false information. Fascinating stuff. It would be interesting to know exactly what kind of relationship this phenomenon has to CVA-related confabulation. I've worked with both types of clients and I can't say that I really have any clear idea. Interesting, Maia! it was odd how my confidence in my confabulations kept me from believing people who tried to talk me out of them.
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

1st August 2009, 08:18 PM	#25
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 43,018	Originally Posted by kittynh Watching a Soap Opera... oh boy...you really were whack job. It's surprising what you'll stoop to when you've been in a hospital for the eight months.
	__________________ Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.

1st August 2009, 10:35 PM	#26
RSL's better half RSL Groupie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Oregon! Posts: 1,154	Originally Posted by arthwollipot It's surprising what you'll stoop to when you've been in a hospital for the eight months. It was 5 days shy of 11 months in hospital. And, after a month of being home, we are coming up on the 1 year anniversary of the scariest event of my life. August 4th.

2nd August 2009, 06:56 AM	#27
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,520	RSL, This is a great thread in so many ways. My mom went through a much slighter (I know - there I go using the techinical terminology again) stroke than you, but she had great moments of confabulation, too. My favorite being the nurse who was making her put her toes (mom's) too close together. They were touching each other (as do all toes, as everyone knows). She made me pleat the bedsheet and put some sheet between each toe so they wouldn't touch... just to "show that b**** ". I tried to discuss it with her, but ultimately it was easier to just stuff some sheeting between the toes. More important as related to this thread, though, was that we knew she was recovering when we could sit around and discuss these incidents with her some months later and laugh together.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

2nd August 2009, 07:14 AM	#28
Monketey Ghost Body of Work Join Date: May 2003 Location: I'm on your screen! Posts: 14,807	Originally Posted by RSLancastr snip How Many Feet? My sister Trish (not Beeg Seestor) tells me that once, I pointed at something and asked her if she would bring it to me and place it on one of my pairs of feet! This was complicated even further by the fact that I was pointing to a white board on the wall of my hospital room ( The nurses would write their names and phone extensions on it every day. why I felt I needed it on my feet is anyone's guess). snip Sounds like every experience I've had working with patients on the stroke unit. "No, there's nobody over there, that's a wall." "No, you can't leave until the doctors say it's green-light. You're in a hospital bed, you're a patient." "No, you don't need to go out that window. Nothing but a seven story drop to the pavement out that way, buddy." "Stop calling me by your wife's name." I know there's a sense of embarrassment afterwards, during the real recovery phase: I've been stupid, and talking nonsense. I try to get one idea through to people and that is that it happens to everyone who has a hard stroke. One gal I worked with for some weeks, her husband said she had a great sense of humor, and suggested it, so we started to keep a little list of the stuff she'd say. He said when she was recovered, she'd laugh her ass off... never did find out. On her way off the unit, however, I saw her as I was walking in. She passed by as her hubby pushed her in a wheelchair. She gave me a very happy grin. "Hey! Discharge today? Great! Keep improving!" to which she responded, in a slow, weak voice, with an equally big grin, "Goooo to helllllll."
	__________________ _{The membership of this forum is henceforth to refer to me as potato-headed Bobby} _{SSKCAS, member in long standing}

2nd August 2009, 09:05 AM	#29
Maia Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,261	Originally Posted by RSLancastr Interesting, Maia! it was odd how my confidence in my confabulations kept me from believing people who tried to talk me out of them. The... reality they've created, I guess... does seem very real to clients with the dissociative disorders as well, even though the confabulating itself definitely is a different phemomenon. But it really is as if the ability to confabulate might be something which the brain can draw on for a lot of different reasons. This is definitely going out on a limb a bit... but I wonder if it's always an attempt on the part of the brain to protect itself from the knowledge of what's happened to it. There is so much physiological change involved with the neurobiology of the DD's, particularly in the more severe forms. The DSM-IV-TR actually acknowledges this in the definition now (pretty amazing, I think!) So it's maybe not as far from post-stroke status as it seems.

2nd August 2009, 10:28 AM	#30
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Scepticism is all very well, Robert- but did you actually check for string?
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

2nd August 2009, 12:58 PM	#31
supercorgi Dog Everlasting Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: State of Confusion, Massachusetts, USA Posts: 2,525	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer My dad passed away last September. Sadly, he wasted away for the last 2-3 months of his life. While your brain is going in the right direction - healing - his was shutting down with the rest of his body. But the things you posted certainly rang a bell - there were times when he swore there was a dog or cat sitting in the corner, or my mom was a nursing home employee, or he was going on some trip to the moon or something. It's odd how our brains work, or try to work, especially when damaged. I had a similar experience with my dad who had twice had a brain tumor removed. He never recovered and was in a nursing home for years. When he was in the hospital, he was convinced that the tracks in the ceiling (the one the privacy curtains hang on) were in fact supports where they would string his body up suspended like from the book Coma - must have been terrifying for him. When in the nursing home, he often thought wild animals (lions and tigers and such) were roaming the halls at night. He often went back in time, thought he was doing jobs or things he had done in the past. I have myself woken from dreams that were so realistic that for awhile I thought the things in the dreams actually happened. The brain is a strange thing and we are only gradually figuring out how it functions (and misfunctions).
	__________________

2nd August 2009, 11:21 PM	#32
Miss_Kitt Zombie Horse of Homeopathy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Lesser Seattle Posts: 3,625	How interesting, Robert!! I hope you can, in a year or less, put together a magazine article on your experience of being a stroke patient. As several posters have suggested, having had convincing but untrue memories gives one a lot more empathy for people with wild claims. I have had a hypnogogic (?or hypnopompic, I still get them mixed up) hallucination that was absolutely realistic and believable, and seemed to me to be real for years afterwards. Being whom I am, I kept the memory mentally stored under "No explanation yet" and didn't change my entire worldview because of one event. Years later, reading an issue of Skeptical Inquirer (when it was still in the little format -- thanks, Gilmar, for lending them to me!) I discovered sleep-related hallucinations and instantly recognized what the apparent Hellhound in my backyard had been. In many ways the combination of that vivid, impossible event and of finding a reasonable explanation have made me the skeptic I am today. I can, sadly, also report that alcohol-related brain damage can lead to confabulation. My Dad is progressing fairly rapidly down the whirlpool of booze-induced brain failure, and you can't trust a thing he says. For instance he told my stepmom that my sister had "called to say she was flying down to Los Angeles for the weekend." The only truth to that was that my sister had called, and asked for my stepmom to call back. When he was in an automobile accident he repeatedly denied that he had done so--even though he had not been drinking at the time of his accident, they did a blood alcohol level check--despite there being numerous witnesses and, more damningly, a piece of Dad's front grille left in the other car. Even when looking at the hole in his vehicle and the corresponding piece in the evidence bag, he denied that it had been him. He was not lying; he genuinely thought he had been driving on a different road. Sad, but true. The brain is an interesting organ, and its misfires are as fascinating (at least!) as its normal function. Good to see you posting again, hugs, Miss_Kitt
	__________________ It's much better to live an honest life than a delusional one -- desertgal Magic thinking is a lead personal floatation device. It looks really reassuring, but it will drag you down--whatthebutlersaw

3rd August 2009, 05:45 AM	#33
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,543	Originally Posted by Soapy Sam Scepticism is all very well, Robert- but did you actually check for string? eah. it was a catheter.
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

3rd August 2009, 06:03 AM	#34
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,771	Great to hear this, Robert. Thanks for giving us non-TAM attending folks a little taste of your talk. Whenever I'm feverish, I get really strange ideas (that really seem real at the time). Stuff like a powerful emotional distress over the print on a bedspread (something to do with "too many coins"). As a child, I also used to have full-blown visual hallucinations (I would see people where I knew there were no people--and no sound). Of the two, the fever-brained delusions, although much more outlandish, were much more difficult to distinguish from reality when they were going on. Originally Posted by amindformurder It is interesting to note that a VERY high (estimate 70%) of psychic/intuitive web sites mention that they suddenly became "psychic" after suffering head injuries. That sounds plausible, but do you have a source for this?
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

3rd August 2009, 07:55 AM	#35
Silly Green Monkey Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,047	I hallucinated during a high fever once, it was dark and I was covered so I thought I was some kind of root. very very hot root, trying to be cooler.