Da Vinci Code reference in Penn & Teller: ********! ?

jay.tarnoff · 30th July 2009, 08:46 PM

Let me first state that I absolutely love Penn & Teller: ********! which is why I was thrown for a little loop tonight after watching the airing of the Organic Food show (Season 7) on Showtime.

P&T, or at least the producers, used Da Vinci's "The Last Supper" as the backdrop, with Penn as Jesus, Teller as the disciple to the left side of Penn, and actors playing the other eleven disciples.

John "The Beloved Disciple" was played by an actress (on Penn's right side), as in the claim of the fictitious Da Vinci Code as Mary Magdalene in this position. This was the only female in the scene.

Okay. This may just be a coincidence, because Penn & Teller, using the Da Vinci Code? It left me saying, "huh? Really? The Da Vinci Code? In BS (censor)??? REALLY???"

Anyone else catch this or am I simply making a causation out of a coincidence?

jay.tarnoff · 30th July 2009, 08:47 PM

We can't use the full word of BS in the JREF threads? Even in reference to the Penn & Teller show?

joobz · 30th July 2009, 08:54 PM

I'm not sure what your problem is?

boloboffin · 30th July 2009, 09:09 PM

Many things done on the Show Not To Be Named are done with an eye to how many people they can hack off by so doing. More Christians to hack off than Dan Brown fans. Dan Brown naysayers other than Christians probably didn't enter in their calculations, and the BS of Dan Brown should speak for itself.

Simon39759 · 30th July 2009, 09:17 PM

Interestingly enough, and not totally unrelated, I have read that, the Renaissance painters had a set of standard and such when representing the various saints and apostles (I guess so that they could be recognized).
Luke was always supposed to be young and pretty and it was not uncommon for painters to use female models to inspire the pretty boy's Bishonen-ness.

MikeSun5 · 30th July 2009, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by jay.tarnoff

We can't use the full word of BS in the JREF threads? Even in reference to the Penn & Teller show?

I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself.

As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny.

Robin · 30th July 2009, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by MikeSun5

I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself.

As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny.

Funny? A harmless joke?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps something more ... sinister.

Consider, when Jean Cocteau died in 1963 Penn Jillette was 8 years old.

8 years old is considered the age of reason in many middle eastern countries.

The middle east is the very place where these events began!

Consider also the names:

Penn - something that transmits words.

Teller - Teller of what? Words maybe?

And who was called the Word made Flesh? Jesus Christ that is who!

Consider this. Jean Cocteau was the last known Grand Master of the Priory of Sion. Is it really so far-fetched that a secret Priory would elect a new Grand Master at the moment he reached the age of reason? What better age?

What better role for the current Grand Master of a secret Priory to hide his identity? Nobody would expect that someone who was protecting a great esoteric truth would be a professional scoffer at all things "woo".

Anybody who even suspected the truth would not dare tell it for fear of being mocked in the way Penn and Teller mock their victims.

It is the classic "hide in plain sight" stratagem.

And they have a perfect vehicle for transmitting secret messages throughout the world.

Oh I know you narrow minded pseudo-sceptics will scoff - but can you prove it isn't true?

Do you have a better explanation for these facts? Co-incidence you say. But isn't that what you always say?

Damien Evans · 30th July 2009, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Robin

Funny? A harmless joke?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps something more ... sinister.

Consider, when Jean Cocteau died in 1963 Penn Jillette was 8 years old.

8 years old is considered the age of reason in many middle eastern countries.

The middle east is the very place where these events began!

Consider also the names:

Penn - something that transmits words.

Teller - Teller of what? Words maybe?

And who was called the Word made Flesh? Jesus Christ that is who!

Consider this. Jean Cocteau was the last known Grand Master of the Priory of Sion. Is it really so far-fetched that a secret Priory would elect a new Grand Master at the moment he reached the age of reason? What better age?

What better role for the current Grand Master of a secret Priory to hide his identity? Nobody would expect that someone who was protecting a great esoteric truth would be a professional scoffer at all things "woo".

Anybody who even suspected the truth would not dare tell it for fear of being mocked in the way Penn and Teller mock their victims.

It is the classic "hide in plain sight" stratagem.

And they have a perfect vehicle for transmitting secret messages throughout the world.

Oh I know you narrow minded pseudo-sceptics will scoff - but can you prove it isn't true?

Do you have a better explanation for these facts? Co-incidence you say. But isn't that what you always say?

Well played, sir. Nominated.

MikeSun5 · 30th July 2009, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Robin

Funny? A harmless joke?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps something more ... sinister.

...also "Penn Jillette" is 12 letters long. The EXACT number of apostles...

Robin · 30th July 2009, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by MikeSun5

...also "Penn Jillette" is 12 letters long. The EXACT number of apostles...

Oh my God! I never even noticed that.

Now come to think of it "Ray" Teller. A ray is something that comes from the sun and "sun" is a well known medieval and Renaissance double-entendre for the "Son" Jesus Christ, for example George Herbert's The Temple "Then by a sunne-beam I will climbe to thee."

The "beam" is a reference to the Cross and "Ray" is another word for "beam".

Their names are just packed with references to Jesus Christ.

Robin · 30th July 2009, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Damien Evans

Well played, sir. Nominated.

Thank you sir.

MikeSun5 · 30th July 2009, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Robin

Oh my God! I never even noticed that.

Now come to think of it "Ray" Teller. A ray is something that comes from the sun and "sun" is a well known medieval and Renaissance double-entendre for the "Son" Jesus Christ, for example George Herbert's The Temple "Then by a sunne-beam I will climbe to thee."

The "beam" is a reference to the Cross and "Ray" is another word for "beam".

Their names are just packed with references to Jesus Christ.

Well on your way to a P&T cult. Doomsday has the same amount of letters as Bull***t. It's simply too much to handle.

Robin · 30th July 2009, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by MikeSun5

Well on your way to a P&T cult. Doomsday has the same amount of letters as Bull***t. It's simply too much to handle.

The odds of this being mere co-incidence are narrowing by the minute.

Skeptic Ginger · 31st July 2009, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by joobz

I'm not sure what your problem is?

His thread title was censored by the autobot. I think he was just stating that surprised him.

Skeptic Ginger · 31st July 2009, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by MikeSun5

I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself.

As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny.

Still, they are not the most scientific of the skeptics. They have the philosophy right, but their skills at supporting their conclusions with convincing evidence is occasionally lacking. Which means they occasionally get it wrong, IMO.

MikeSun5 · 31st July 2009, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

Still, they are not the most scientific of the skeptics. They have the philosophy right, but their skills at supporting their conclusions with convincing evidence is occasionally lacking. Which means they occasionally get it wrong, IMO.

Agreed. Although I do like how they 'fess up when they get busted on their own BS -- like when they did that segment on second hand smoke and had to take a bunch of it back. There are tons of more respected programs that probably wouldn't even address using obvious hyperbole, let alone making a mistake.

jay.tarnoff · 31st July 2009, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by joobz

I'm not sure what your problem is?

I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support.

With the title of their show, you would think they wouldn't use a BS book to drive home the point IMO.

jay.tarnoff · 31st July 2009, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by Robin

The odds of this being mere co-incidence are narrowing by the minute.

Maybe it wasn't an Autobot controlling what words are put in the post, but the Show That Must Not Be Named already reaching its nefarious hand into censoring those who disagree

joobz · 31st July 2009, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by jay.tarnoff

I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support.

With the title of their show, you would think they wouldn't use a BS book to drive home the point IMO.

If they presented the piece as a bit of factual proof against something, then I would agree.

If they did the piece as one of thier jokey inbetween things, I wouldn't put much stock into it.

Ocelot · 31st July 2009, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by jay.tarnoff

I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support.

To give Dan Brown his due, he's a terrible writer, his research is lazy, it's a mystery why his da Vinci code was such as sucess but I don't think he ever claimed any part of it to be true other than the existence of the Opus Dei.

However your argument still stands (though reads a little more clumsy) "...that P&T would play off a novel who's idiot fans - claim to be true..." or if it were "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" in your sights.

Though one of the most amusing parts of the whole "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" copyright battle was Baigent and Leigh having to admit that their historical research was purely and simply the reporting of uncopyrightable truth but at least to a certain extent a creation of their imagination. That said, they lost so they're probably back to claiming it as the truth.

Meadmaker · 31st July 2009, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by jay.tarnoff

I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support.

With the title of their show, you would think they wouldn't use a BS book to drive home the point IMO.

I suspect it was meant to be a pop culture reference that mocked "The DaVinci Code" within a segment mocking someone else.

P.S. I, too, nominated Robin's post.

Beerina · 31st July 2009, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by boloboffin

Many things done on the Show Not To Be Named are done with an eye to how many people they can hack off by so doing. More Christians to hack off than Dan Brown fans. Dan Brown naysayers other than Christians probably didn't enter in their calculations, and the BS of Dan Brown should speak for itself.

In other words, it would be like suggesting Jesus was gay, to hack off Christians, rather than to butter up the guy who made The Last Temptation of Christ?

Lisa Simpson · 31st July 2009, 08:45 AM

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

Pink Booties · 31st July 2009, 08:50 AM

I told my dad it would be great to watch that show when it first came out. We watched the first episode together, plus the next two.

I had told my dad they were skeptics and it should be entertaining, despite the unfortunate title of the show.

Ten minutes into show one I was embarrassed that I was subjecting my father to it. P&T make skeptics look like dicks.

HarryKeogh · 31st July 2009, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

This is the simplest and the correct answer.

boloboffin · 31st July 2009, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

Occam's Centerfold.

HarryKeogh · 31st July 2009, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Magnifico2.0

I told my dad it would be great to watch that show when it first came out. We watched the first episode together, plus the next two.

I had told my dad they were skeptics and it should be entertaining, despite the unfortunate title of the show.

Ten minutes into show one I was embarrassed that I was subjecting my father to it. P&T make skeptics look like dicks.

That's funny. I think the first episode was the best one they ever did. It was on psychics. P&T weren't obnoxious and they really showed how those frauds destroy innocent people.

It's been very hit or miss ever since. I thought last night's was well done (organic food) but I still can't get over the episode on hair.

dudalb · 31st July 2009, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by MikeSun5

I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself.

As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny.

Yeah, it was Penn trying to do "The Life Of Brian", and failing.
I admit I am not a big P and T fan anymore. I am tired of his increasing attempts to shove his Libertarian politics down our throats, and think a couple of episodes of The Show That Cannot Be Named are full of What Cannot be Named themselves..the Global Warming episode in particular.
I don't think P and T are exactly outstadning examples of rational thinking anymore.
And I think the attempts at T and A humor are just plain tired.

dudalb · 31st July 2009, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Ocelot

To give Dan Brown his due, he's a terrible writer, his research is lazy, it's a mystery why his da Vinci code was such as sucess but I don't think he ever claimed any part of it to be true other than the existence of the Opus Dei.

However your argument still stands (though reads a little more clumsy) "...that P&T would play off a novel who's idiot fans - claim to be true..." or if it were "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" in your sights.

Though one of the most amusing parts of the whole "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" copyright battle was Baigent and Leigh having to admit that their historical research was purely and simply the reporting of uncopyrightable truth but at least to a certain extent a creation of their imagination. That said, they lost so they're probably back to claiming it as the truth.

Dan Brown has several times claimed TDC is based on actual history,and then backtracks with "It only a novel" when called on it.

joobz · 31st July 2009, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Yeah, it was Penn trying to do "The Life Of Brian", and failing.
I admit I am not a big P and T fan anymore. I am tired of his increasing attempts to shove his Libertarian politics down our throats, and think a couple of episodes of The Show That Cannot Be Named are full of What Cannot be Named themselves..the Global Warming episode in particular.
I don't think P and T are exactly outstadning examples of rational thinking anymore.
And I think the attempts at T and A humor are just plain tired.

I think they're funny. Not high brow by any means, but it's definite entertainment. Although, tiresome is a good description. I wouldn't watch a marathon of the show.

the other thing is that they are fairly honest with their views. Like in the global warming episode, they admitted to not knowing if it's real. That's honest. I actually agree with thier carbon off-set issue. I think it's easily something taht can be a scam.

Retrograde · 31st July 2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Interestingly enough, and not totally unrelated, I have read that, the Renaissance painters had a set of standard and such when representing the various saints and apostles (I guess so that they could be recognized).

I like late medieval/early renaissance religious art because I can play "Name that Saint". The big name ones all have identifiers, usually related to their martyrdom: St. Stephen always has rocks, St. Catherine has a wheel, St. Lucy carries her eyes on a plate, St. Lawrence totes around a gridiron, St. Margaret has a reptile on a leash, and my new favorite, St. Peter Martyr (not to be confused with The Saint Peter, who was a martyr, but carries keys) who goes around with a hatchet embedded in his skull.

Quote:

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

An old magician's trick: distract your audience so they don't see the sometimes specious reasoning. Doesn't work for me, though.

jay.tarnoff · 1st August 2009, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by boloboffin

Occam's Centerfold.

Love that.

KarlG · 1st August 2009, 10:28 AM

I've just watched the episode and if you think Penn and Teller were basing the female actress on the Da Vinci Code, which book did they get the black guy, the mexican and the dwarf from??

shawmutt · 1st August 2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by KarlG

I've just watched the episode and if you think Penn and Teller were basing the female actress on the Da Vinci Code, which book did they get the black guy, the mexican and the dwarf from??

The Da Vinci Load

CynicalSkeptic · 1st August 2009, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

Exactly.

Joke and boobies. Classic P&T

CynicalSkeptic · 1st August 2009, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Magnifico2.0

I had told my dad they were skeptics and it should be entertaining, despite the unfortunate title of the show.

Ten minutes into show one I was embarrassed that I was subjecting my father to it. P&T make skeptics look like dicks.

What's unfortunate about the name?

P&T don't make anyone other than themselves look like anything.

LostAngeles · 2nd August 2009, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

They weren't very good boobies.

Robin · 2nd August 2009, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Robin

Oh my God! I never even noticed that.

Now come to think of it "Ray" Teller. A ray is something that comes from the sun and "sun" is a well known medieval and Renaissance double-entendre for the "Son" Jesus Christ, for example George Herbert's The Temple "Then by a sunne-beam I will climbe to thee."

The "beam" is a reference to the Cross and "Ray" is another word for "beam".

Their names are just packed with references to Jesus Christ.

And how could I have missed that "Raymond Teller" is an anagram for "My Eternal Lord"?

KarlG · 3rd August 2009, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by shawmutt

The Da Vinci Load

Hehe, nice

Pink Booties · 3rd August 2009, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by CynicalSkeptic

What's unfortunate about the name?

Well, for example, I wanted to introduce my dad to skepticism as a tool for wide examination of ideas. The show's title was something I had to work around, and told him it'd be cool. He wasn't too keen on the title of the show, and like him, I think it turned off a few people who'd otherwise have watched at least once.

Quote:

P&T don't make anyone other than themselves look like anything.

Actually, no. Since skepticism is something not widely represented in the mainstream, their show is one of the most accessible ways to see how skepticism is used. And I must say they use it to their own convenience issue by issue. Randi is gentle and doesn't seek to offend, P&T do, and IMO it's the wrong road to take.

30th July 2009, 08:46 PM	#1
jay.tarnoff Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 65	Da Vinci Code reference in Penn & Teller: ****! ? Let me first state that I absolutely love Penn & Teller: *******! which is why I was thrown for a little loop tonight after watching the airing of the Organic Food show (Season 7) on Showtime. P&T, or at least the producers, used Da Vinci's "The Last Supper" as the backdrop, with Penn as Jesus, Teller as the disciple to the left side of Penn, and actors playing the other eleven disciples. John "The Beloved Disciple" was played by an actress (on Penn's right side), as in the claim of the fictitious Da Vinci Code* as Mary Magdalene in this position. This was the only female in the scene. Okay. This may just be a coincidence, because Penn & Teller, using the Da Vinci Code? It left me saying, "huh? Really? The Da Vinci Code? In BS (censor)??? REALLY???" Anyone else catch this or am I simply making a causation out of a coincidence?
	Last edited by jay.tarnoff; 30th July 2009 at 08:52 PM.

30th July 2009, 08:54 PM	#3
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Inside the Magical Murder Bag Posts: 11,813	I'm not sure what your problem is?
	__________________ "Joobz you can be something else sometimes."- DOC "Hopefully joobz can one day be totally objective and unbiased ..." - DOC

30th July 2009, 09:22 PM	#6
MikeSun5 Trigger Happy Pacifist, Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 926	Originally Posted by jay.tarnoff We can't use the full word of BS in the JREF threads? Even in reference to the Penn & Teller show? I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself. As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny.
	__________________ I always wondered if those WWJD bracelets worked, so I bought one. Well later, I was on a plane and this little kid was kicking my seat repeatedly, while his sister sang along with her walkman and their mother just sat there. I almost turned around and went off, and then I caught sight of my bracelet. What would Jesus do? So I lit them on fire and sent them all to Hell. --Daniel Tosh

30th July 2009, 10:47 PM	#7
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,778	Originally Posted by MikeSun5 I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself. As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny. Funny? A harmless joke? Perhaps. Or perhaps something more ... sinister. Consider, when Jean Cocteau died in 1963 Penn Jillette was 8 years old. 8 years old is considered the age of reason in many middle eastern countries. The middle east is the very place where these events began! Consider also the names: Penn - something that transmits words. Teller - Teller of what? Words maybe? And who was called the Word made Flesh? Jesus Christ that is who! Consider this. Jean Cocteau was the last known Grand Master of the Priory of Sion. Is it really so far-fetched that a secret Priory would elect a new Grand Master at the moment he reached the age of reason? What better age? What better role for the current Grand Master of a secret Priory to hide his identity? Nobody would expect that someone who was protecting a great esoteric truth would be a professional scoffer at all things "woo". Anybody who even suspected the truth would not dare tell it for fear of being mocked in the way Penn and Teller mock their victims. It is the classic "hide in plain sight" stratagem. And they have a perfect vehicle for transmitting secret messages throughout the world. Oh I know you narrow minded pseudo-sceptics will scoff - but can you prove it isn't true? Do you have a better explanation for these facts? Co-incidence you say. But isn't that what you always say?
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,778	__________________ If any one alters the definitions, I cannot pretend to argue with him, until I know the meaning he assigns to these terms. - David Hume 1711-1776

30th July 2009, 10:56 PM	#8
Damien Evans Up The Irons Tagger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 11,681	Originally Posted by Robin Funny? A harmless joke? Perhaps. Or perhaps something more ... sinister. Consider, when Jean Cocteau died in 1963 Penn Jillette was 8 years old. 8 years old is considered the age of reason in many middle eastern countries. The middle east is the very place where these events began! Consider also the names: Penn - something that transmits words. Teller - Teller of what? Words maybe? And who was called the Word made Flesh? Jesus Christ that is who! Consider this. Jean Cocteau was the last known Grand Master of the Priory of Sion. Is it really so far-fetched that a secret Priory would elect a new Grand Master at the moment he reached the age of reason? What better age? What better role for the current Grand Master of a secret Priory to hide his identity? Nobody would expect that someone who was protecting a great esoteric truth would be a professional scoffer at all things "woo". Anybody who even suspected the truth would not dare tell it for fear of being mocked in the way Penn and Teller mock their victims. It is the classic "hide in plain sight" stratagem. And they have a perfect vehicle for transmitting secret messages throughout the world. Oh I know you narrow minded pseudo-sceptics will scoff - but can you prove it isn't true? Do you have a better explanation for these facts? Co-incidence you say. But isn't that what you always say? Well played, sir. Nominated.
	__________________ And down by Kosciusko, where the pine-clad ridges raise; Their torn and rugged battlements on high, Where the air is clear as crystal, and the white stars fairly blaze; At midnight in the cold and frosty sky, And where around the Overflow the reed-beds sweep and sway; To the breezes, and the rolling plains are wide, The Man from Snowy River is a household word today, And the stockmen tell the story of his ride.

30th July 2009, 08:47 PM	#2
jay.tarnoff Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 65	We can't use the full word of BS in the JREF threads? Even in reference to the Penn & Teller show?

30th July 2009, 09:09 PM	#4
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,005	Many things done on the Show Not To Be Named are done with an eye to how many people they can hack off by so doing. More Christians to hack off than Dan Brown fans. Dan Brown naysayers other than Christians probably didn't enter in their calculations, and the BS of Dan Brown should speak for itself.

30th July 2009, 09:17 PM	#5
Simon39759 Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,064	Interestingly enough, and not totally unrelated, I have read that, the Renaissance painters had a set of standard and such when representing the various saints and apostles (I guess so that they could be recognized). Luke was always supposed to be young and pretty and it was not uncommon for painters to use female models to inspire the pretty boy's Bishonen-ness.

30th July 2009, 11:00 PM	#9
MikeSun5 Trigger Happy Pacifist, Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 926	Originally Posted by Robin Funny? A harmless joke? Perhaps. Or perhaps something more ... sinister. ...also "Penn Jillette" is 12 letters long. The EXACT number of apostles...
	__________________ I always wondered if those WWJD bracelets worked, so I bought one. Well later, I was on a plane and this little kid was kicking my seat repeatedly, while his sister sang along with her walkman and their mother just sat there. I almost turned around and went off, and then I caught sight of my bracelet. What would Jesus do? So I lit them on fire and sent them all to Hell. --Daniel Tosh

30th July 2009, 11:09 PM	#10
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,778	Originally Posted by MikeSun5 ...also "Penn Jillette" is 12 letters long. The EXACT number of apostles... Oh my God! I never even noticed that. Now come to think of it "Ray" Teller. A ray is something that comes from the sun and "sun" is a well known medieval and Renaissance double-entendre for the "Son" Jesus Christ, for example George Herbert's The Temple "Then by a sunne-beam I will climbe to thee." The "beam" is a reference to the Cross and "Ray" is another word for "beam". Their names are just packed with references to Jesus Christ.
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,778	__________________ If any one alters the definitions, I cannot pretend to argue with him, until I know the meaning he assigns to these terms. - David Hume 1711-1776 Last edited by Robin; 30th July 2009 at 11:18 PM.

30th July 2009, 11:11 PM	#11
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,778	Originally Posted by Damien Evans Well played, sir. Nominated. Thank you sir.
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,778	__________________ If any one alters the definitions, I cannot pretend to argue with him, until I know the meaning he assigns to these terms. - David Hume 1711-1776

30th July 2009, 11:32 PM	#12
MikeSun5 Trigger Happy Pacifist, Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 926	Originally Posted by Robin Oh my God! I never even noticed that. Now come to think of it "Ray" Teller. A ray is something that comes from the sun and "sun" is a well known medieval and Renaissance double-entendre for the "Son" Jesus Christ, for example George Herbert's The Temple "Then by a sunne-beam I will climbe to thee." The "beam" is a reference to the Cross and "Ray" is another word for "beam". Their names are just packed with references to Jesus Christ. Well on your way to a P&T cult. Doomsday has the same amount of letters as Bull***t. It's simply too much to handle.
	__________________ I always wondered if those WWJD bracelets worked, so I bought one. Well later, I was on a plane and this little kid was kicking my seat repeatedly, while his sister sang along with her walkman and their mother just sat there. I almost turned around and went off, and then I caught sight of my bracelet. What would Jesus do? So I lit them on fire and sent them all to Hell. --Daniel Tosh

30th July 2009, 11:33 PM	#13
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,778	Originally Posted by MikeSun5 Well on your way to a P&T cult. Doomsday has the same amount of letters as Bull***t. It's simply too much to handle. The odds of this being mere co-incidence are narrowing by the minute.
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,778	__________________ If any one alters the definitions, I cannot pretend to argue with him, until I know the meaning he assigns to these terms. - David Hume 1711-1776

31st July 2009, 12:38 AM	#14
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: headed back to that dark dark house in the dark dark woods Posts: 19,317	Originally Posted by joobz I'm not sure what your problem is? His thread title was censored by the autobot. I think he was just stating that surprised him.
	__________________ Sk'p' 'el (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Republic Party, in response.) (*Tired of the current Republican talking point of naming everything after Pelosi, Reid &/or Obama, I've decided to start adding Republican names to their fault fiascos.)

31st July 2009, 12:40 AM	#15
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: headed back to that dark dark house in the dark dark woods Posts: 19,317	Originally Posted by MikeSun5 I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself. As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny. Still, they are not the most scientific of the skeptics. They have the philosophy right, but their skills at supporting their conclusions with convincing evidence is occasionally lacking. Which means they occasionally get it wrong, IMO.
	__________________ Sk'p' 'el (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Republic Party, in response.) (*Tired of the current Republican talking point of naming everything after Pelosi, Reid &/or Obama, I've decided to start adding Republican names to their fault fiascos.)

31st July 2009, 02:47 AM	#16
MikeSun5 Trigger Happy Pacifist, Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 926	Originally Posted by skeptigirl Still, they are not the most scientific of the skeptics. They have the philosophy right, but their skills at supporting their conclusions with convincing evidence is occasionally lacking. Which means they occasionally get it wrong, IMO. Agreed. Although I do like how they 'fess up when they get busted on their own BS -- like when they did that segment on second hand smoke and had to take a bunch of it back. There are tons of more respected programs that probably wouldn't even address using obvious hyperbole, let alone making a mistake.
	__________________ I always wondered if those WWJD bracelets worked, so I bought one. Well later, I was on a plane and this little kid was kicking my seat repeatedly, while his sister sang along with her walkman and their mother just sat there. I almost turned around and went off, and then I caught sight of my bracelet. What would Jesus do? So I lit them on fire and sent them all to Hell. --Daniel Tosh

31st July 2009, 05:48 AM	#17
jay.tarnoff Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 65	Originally Posted by joobz I'm not sure what your problem is? I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support. With the title of their show, you would think they wouldn't use a BS book to drive home the point IMO.

31st July 2009, 05:55 AM	#18
jay.tarnoff Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 65	Originally Posted by Robin The odds of this being mere co-incidence are narrowing by the minute. Maybe it wasn't an Autobot controlling what words are put in the post, but the Show That Must Not Be Named already reaching its nefarious hand into censoring those who disagree

31st July 2009, 06:01 AM	#19
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Inside the Magical Murder Bag Posts: 11,813	Originally Posted by jay.tarnoff I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support. With the title of their show, you would think they wouldn't use a BS book to drive home the point IMO. If they presented the piece as a bit of factual proof against something, then I would agree. If they did the piece as one of thier jokey inbetween things, I wouldn't put much stock into it.
	__________________ "Joobz you can be something else sometimes."- DOC "Hopefully joobz can one day be totally objective and unbiased ..." - DOC

31st July 2009, 06:46 AM	#20
Ocelot Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,795	Originally Posted by jay.tarnoff I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support. To give Dan Brown his due, he's a terrible writer, his research is lazy, it's a mystery why his da Vinci code was such as sucess but I don't think he ever claimed any part of it to be true other than the existence of the Opus Dei. However your argument still stands (though reads a little more clumsy) "...that P&T would play off a novel who's idiot fans - claim to be true..." or if it were "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" in your sights. Though one of the most amusing parts of the whole "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" copyright battle was Baigent and Leigh having to admit that their historical research was purely and simply the reporting of uncopyrightable truth but at least to a certain extent a creation of their imagination. That said, they lost so they're probably back to claiming it as the truth.
Ocelot Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,795	__________________ Stop Sylvia Browne

31st July 2009, 08:17 AM	#21
Meadmaker Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Detroit suburbs Posts: 8,113	Originally Posted by jay.tarnoff I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support. With the title of their show, you would think they wouldn't use a BS book to drive home the point IMO. I suspect it was meant to be a pop culture reference that mocked "The DaVinci Code" within a segment mocking someone else. P.S. I, too, nominated Robin's post.
	__________________ Dave

31st July 2009, 08:39 AM	#22
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 14,373	Originally Posted by boloboffin Many things done on the Show Not To Be Named are done with an eye to how many people they can hack off by so doing. More Christians to hack off than Dan Brown fans. Dan Brown naysayers other than Christians probably didn't enter in their calculations, and the BS of Dan Brown should speak for itself. In other words, it would be like suggesting Jesus was gay, to hack off Christians, rather than to butter up the guy who made The Last Temptation of Christ?
	__________________ Reid Fleming, World's Toughest Milkman, in *A Day Like Any Other* The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

31st July 2009, 08:45 AM	#23
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 14,831	It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.
	__________________ In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the stakes at issue. - Wallace Sayre Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

31st July 2009, 08:50 AM	#24
Pink Booties Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: in your guard, up on points, and stalling. Posts: 3,537	I told my dad it would be great to watch that show when it first came out. We watched the first episode together, plus the next two. I had told my dad they were skeptics and it should be entertaining, despite the unfortunate title of the show. Ten minutes into show one I was embarrassed that I was subjecting my father to it. P&T make skeptics look like dicks.

31st July 2009, 08:52 AM	#25
HarryKeogh Catholic School Survivor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 10,717	Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson It's also a way to get boobies onto the show. This is the simplest and the correct answer.

31st July 2009, 02:03 PM	#26
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,005	Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson It's also a way to get boobies onto the show. Occam's Centerfold.

31st July 2009, 02:41 PM	#27
HarryKeogh Catholic School Survivor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 10,717	Originally Posted by Magnifico2.0 I told my dad it would be great to watch that show when it first came out. We watched the first episode together, plus the next two. I had told my dad they were skeptics and it should be entertaining, despite the unfortunate title of the show. Ten minutes into show one I was embarrassed that I was subjecting my father to it. P&T make skeptics look like dicks. That's funny. I think the first episode was the best one they ever did. It was on psychics. P&T weren't obnoxious and they really showed how those frauds destroy innocent people. It's been very hit or miss ever since. I thought last night's was well done (organic food) but I still can't get over the episode on hair.

31st July 2009, 02:45 PM	#28
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 14,453	Originally Posted by MikeSun5 I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself. As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny. Yeah, it was Penn trying to do "The Life Of Brian", and failing. I admit I am not a big P and T fan anymore. I am tired of his increasing attempts to shove his Libertarian politics down our throats, and think a couple of episodes of The Show That Cannot Be Named are full of What Cannot be Named themselves..the Global Warming episode in particular. I don't think P and T are exactly outstadning examples of rational thinking anymore. And I think the attempts at T and A humor are just plain tired.
	Last edited by dudalb; 31st July 2009 at 03:01 PM.

31st July 2009, 02:56 PM	#29
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 14,453	Originally Posted by Ocelot To give Dan Brown his due, he's a terrible writer, his research is lazy, it's a mystery why his da Vinci code was such as sucess but I don't think he ever claimed any part of it to be true other than the existence of the Opus Dei. However your argument still stands (though reads a little more clumsy) "...that P&T would play off a novel who's idiot fans - claim to be true..." or if it were "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" in your sights. Though one of the most amusing parts of the whole "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" copyright battle was Baigent and Leigh having to admit that their historical research was purely and simply the reporting of uncopyrightable truth but at least to a certain extent a creation of their imagination. That said, they lost so they're probably back to claiming it as the truth. Dan Brown has several times claimed TDC is based on actual history,and then backtracks with "It only a novel" when called on it.

31st July 2009, 03:29 PM	#30
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Inside the Magical Murder Bag Posts: 11,813	Originally Posted by dudalb Yeah, it was Penn trying to do "The Life Of Brian", and failing. I admit I am not a big P and T fan anymore. I am tired of his increasing attempts to shove his Libertarian politics down our throats, and think a couple of episodes of The Show That Cannot Be Named are full of What Cannot be Named themselves..the Global Warming episode in particular. I don't think P and T are exactly outstadning examples of rational thinking anymore. And I think the attempts at T and A humor are just plain tired. I think they're funny. Not high brow by any means, but it's definite entertainment. Although, tiresome is a good description. I wouldn't watch a marathon of the show. the other thing is that they are fairly honest with their views. Like in the global warming episode, they admitted to not knowing if it's real. That's honest. I actually agree with thier carbon off-set issue. I think it's easily something taht can be a scam.
	__________________ "Joobz you can be something else sometimes."- DOC "Hopefully joobz can one day be totally objective and unbiased ..." - DOC

31st July 2009, 07:35 PM	#31
Retrograde Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 255	Quote: Interestingly enough, and not totally unrelated, I have read that, the Renaissance painters had a set of standard and such when representing the various saints and apostles (I guess so that they could be recognized). I like late medieval/early renaissance religious art because I can play "Name that Saint". The big name ones all have identifiers, usually related to their martyrdom: St. Stephen always has rocks, St. Catherine has a wheel, St. Lucy carries her eyes on a plate, St. Lawrence totes around a gridiron, St. Margaret has a reptile on a leash, and my new favorite, St. Peter Martyr (not to be confused with The Saint Peter, who was a martyr, but carries keys) who goes around with a hatchet embedded in his skull. Quote: It's also a way to get boobies onto the show. An old magician's trick: distract your audience so they don't see the sometimes specious reasoning. Doesn't work for me, though.

1st August 2009, 07:22 AM	#32
jay.tarnoff Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 65	Originally Posted by boloboffin Occam's Centerfold. Love that.

1st August 2009, 10:28 AM	#33
KarlG Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cumbria, UK Posts: 371	I've just watched the episode and if you think Penn and Teller were basing the female actress on the Da Vinci Code, which book did they get the black guy, the mexican and the dwarf from??
	__________________ “If God wanted us to believe in him, he’d exist.” ~ Linda Smith. Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad

1st August 2009, 10:53 AM	#34
shawmutt Squirrel Murderer Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Greencastle, PA Posts: 1,209	Originally Posted by KarlG I've just watched the episode and if you think Penn and Teller were basing the female actress on the Da Vinci Code, which book did they get the black guy, the mexican and the dwarf from?? The Da Vinci Load

1st August 2009, 01:47 PM	#35
CynicalSkeptic Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: state of denial Posts: 488	Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson It's also a way to get boobies onto the show. Exactly. Joke and boobies. Classic P&T