If you could travel into the past what would you do?

chuck4842 · 6th August 2009, 05:52 PM

Just pondering I guess. Hey! Stop John Wilkes Boothe, long live the Union! Kill the guy who invented the wheel, that would slow things down. Would time stop if you went back and saved the life who in the future killed your parent? Is there a study or theory of what could happen if time travel was possible? What if...hey, what if it was actually going on right now and we are the current up to date result. Wouldn't there have to be somebody ignorant of the possibility in order for it to be.... I forget.

Singularitarian · 6th August 2009, 05:56 PM

You wouldn't be able to travel before the creation of the time machine, so its pointless. This is because of the chronological principle created by Dr Hawking.

Thunder · 6th August 2009, 05:57 PM

if I could travel to the past....there is one and only one thing I would do. I would kill Hitler at birth.

or Jesus.

=)

chuck4842 · 6th August 2009, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Singularitarian

You wouldn't be able to travel before the creation of the time machine, so its pointless. This is because of the chronological principle created by Dr Hawking.

I don't quite understand, what if the time machine was there at the beginning.

BobG · 6th August 2009, 06:09 PM

I would relive my love life.

Imagine if I had known then what I know now! I would have had a very good time.

By the way. I don't believe in time travel. The past is the past and that's gone. We will not see the future until it arrives. That leaves the present and that is all there is.

However, time travel is still fun to speculate about.

Bob Guercio

Singularitarian · 6th August 2009, 06:11 PM

If the time machine existed from the beginning [ of time ] i presume, then who would have been present to create it?

I Ratant · 6th August 2009, 06:15 PM

Were there a time machine available to you, and you did anything that changed the past, might that alter the availability of the time machine to you now?
As you don't have a time machine available, you haven't traveled to the past.
It's a conundrum worse than the worst circular logic imaginable!

bokonon · 6th August 2009, 06:35 PM

Just walk away is my advice. I thought it would be fun, and now I'm stuck here, and good luck getting parts.

I wish I'd traveled into the future instead. Live and learn...

ejk · 6th August 2009, 07:04 PM

Step on a butterfly, then come home. Just to see.

Or, inspired by Bob Guercio, maybe it's more about what I wouldn't do, given the chance to (not) do it again.

SezMe · 6th August 2009, 07:07 PM

I'd go back to just before clicking on this thread and move on to the next one.

EventHorizon · 6th August 2009, 07:10 PM

What would I do? Probably Marilyn Monroe.

KingMerv00 · 6th August 2009, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Singularitarian

You wouldn't be able to travel before the creation of the time machine, so its pointless. This is because of the chronological principle created by Dr Hawking.

Originally Posted by Singularitarian

If the time machine existed from the beginning [ of time ] i presume, then who would have been present to create it?

Dude, it is just a hypothetical question.

Ladewig · 6th August 2009, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by ejk

Step on a butterfly, then come home. Just to see.

Or, inspired by Bob Guercio, maybe it's more about what I wouldn't do, given the chance to (not) do it again.

I cannot imagine a more appropriate answer to this particular question. Well played.

KingMerv00 · 6th August 2009, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by chuck4842

I don't quite understand...

I think he is referring to one popular idea physicists have proposed to travel into the past:

Step 1: Make a wormhole.

Step 2: Take one of the openings and accelerate it to near the speed of light. Relativity says you and the opening will travel into the future.

Step 3: Jump into that opening.

Step 4: Come out the other end of the wormhole, which has remained in the past.

As you can see, this method is limited because the time traveler could not go back to a time before the creation of the wormhole.

Sir Robin Goodfellow · 6th August 2009, 07:32 PM

I would punch Oliver Cromwell in the throat and fart in his face. I just hate him so much!

Then I'd start wagering on everything.

MikeSun5 · 6th August 2009, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

if I could travel to the past....there is one and only one thing I would do. I would kill Hitler at birth.

Saw that once on the Twilight Zone. It won't work.

Sorry.

Anyway, I'd go back to just before the Beatles and Jimi Hendrix came out and claim I wrote all those songs.

patchbunny · 6th August 2009, 07:33 PM

Kill George Lucas with a shovel.

Hokulele · 6th August 2009, 07:55 PM

See what dinosaur tastes like.

Yeah, I know. Chicken.

rharbers · 6th August 2009, 07:59 PM

This time I would cheat on that important exam.

vIQleS · 6th August 2009, 08:00 PM

I'd go back a day and win lotto. Boring I know - sorry, but there you are...

Or if you want the eXtreme version: Try and prevent the dark ages... (and while I'm there I'll set up a small term deposit or buy a plot of land

)

Simon39759 · 6th August 2009, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Hokulele

See what dinosaur tastes like.

Yeah, I know. Chicken.

Dinosaur's meat does indeed taste a bit like chicken, except incredibly more delicious.

I would probably find myself a nice tribe of neolythic farmers and speed the emergence of civilization a bit, try to shorten all these millennia of pointless slaughtering.

Towlie · 6th August 2009, 08:25 PM

I'd go back to about AD 30 and teach the Pharisees that it's better for the future of mankind to tar and feather a troublemaker instead of killing him.

MikeSun5 · 6th August 2009, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Towlie

I'd go back to about AD 30 and teach the Pharisees that it's better for the future of mankind to tar and feather a troublemaker instead of killing him.

Then people would be wearing little tar-and-feather necklaces instead of crosses.

I think it was Lenny Bruce who I stole that joke from... he said if Jesus was killed in recent times, people would be getting jewelry and tattoos that depict a dude in an electric chair.

bokonon · 6th August 2009, 08:41 PM

Back in college, I wrote a story about Jesus starting his ministry circa 1940.

He was a plumber.

People wore shower nozzles.

MikeSun5 · 6th August 2009, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by bokonon

Back in college, I wrote a story about Jesus starting his ministry circa 1940.

He was a plumber.

People wore shower nozzles.

lol. <Insert walk on water/parting the sea/pipe organ joke here>

billw · 6th August 2009, 09:59 PM

That's an easy one. I want to visit Southern California during the maximum glaciation period of the Late Pleistocene - say, about 18,000 years ago.

Giant ground sloths, mammoths and mastodons, saber-toothed cats, dire wolves, bison, camels, llamas, horses, lions and tigers and tapirs and bears, oh my...

Dutchman · 6th August 2009, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

if I could travel to the past....there is one and only one thing I would do. I would kill Hitler at birth.

Going back in time to kill an innocent baby.... you evil monster you!

asmodean · 7th August 2009, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by parky76

if I could travel to the past....there is one and only one thing I would do. I would kill Hitler at birth.

be careful:
http://www.viruscomix.com/page382.html

Akhenaten · 7th August 2009, 03:02 AM

Nefertiti

kimota · 7th August 2009, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Just pondering I guess. Hey! Stop John Wilkes Boothe, long live the Union!

Have you considered that John Wilkes Boothe and Lee Harvey Oswald may be time travelers themselves? They could be the greatest reviled heroes the United States will never know.

I was going to go back to build a huge cache of valuable key Golden Age comic books, stored in an environment that would help preserve their condition, but I think Chuck Rozanski beat me to that idea.

catbasket · 7th August 2009, 06:25 AM

Quote:

If you could travel into the past what would you do?

Hmm, difficult. I guess the best thing to do would be to ask for suggestions, maybe on an internet forum.

So, chuck4842, when do you leave?

Michael Redman · 7th August 2009, 06:38 AM

If we're not worried about paradoxes, I would find my teenage self and give him some of the wisdom I've learned about enjoying life. And a heads up on upcoming events, of course. For wagering.

I think I would tell him to become a brewmaster.

Cainkane1 · 7th August 2009, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Just pondering I guess. Hey! Stop John Wilkes Boothe, long live the Union! Kill the guy who invented the wheel, that would slow things down. Would time stop if you went back and saved the life who in the future killed your parent? Is there a study or theory of what could happen if time travel was possible? What if...hey, what if it was actually going on right now and we are the current up to date result. Wouldn't there have to be somebody ignorant of the possibility in order for it to be.... I forget.

I'd convert Jack Chick to atheism.

Guybrush Threepwood · 7th August 2009, 06:59 AM

I'm surprised no-one else has posted this one but I'd do my Granny, fathering my own father and destroying causality.

It also means that later I'd go into the future and have a robot as my best friend. Double win!

Piscivore · 7th August 2009, 07:09 AM

Score some VW parts.

gypsey · 7th August 2009, 07:56 AM

follow my fathers family back far enough to find out just who the heck my great grand fathers father actually was,

great great granny was a bit of a ho

as a genealogist my greatest desire is a time machine not so I could change anything, I just want to be able to observe and KNOW for sure

Towlie · 7th August 2009, 08:04 AM

Reading through these posts, I'm seeing a lot of ideas that I recognize from already existing science fiction movies and short stories, for example:

Originally Posted by Michael Redman

If we're not worried about paradoxes, I would find my teenage self and give him ... a heads up on upcoming events, of course. For wagering.

That was the theme of Back to the Future Part II.

Have you guys spotted any more?

LibraryLady · 7th August 2009, 08:17 AM

In Peggy Sue Got Married, she "invents" pantyhose when she goes back in time.

I'd go from time to time undoing the stupid things I've said and done. And I'd have a lot more fun.

I Ratant · 7th August 2009, 09:26 AM

The problem with fixing a situation in the past, which would alter the direction your life took, would place that life outside your knowledge from then on.
Doing A to alter a condition might cause the "fixed you" to do a B which was worse.
And all of that would be outside your time line now.

roger · 7th August 2009, 09:33 AM

Buy 100 BRK-A shares.

6th August 2009, 05:52 PM	#1
chuck4842 Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Piedmont NC Posts: 605	If you could travel into the past what would you do? Just pondering I guess. Hey! Stop John Wilkes Boothe, long live the Union! Kill the guy who invented the wheel, that would slow things down. Would time stop if you went back and saved the life who in the future killed your parent? Is there a study or theory of what could happen if time travel was possible? What if...hey, what if it was actually going on right now and we are the current up to date result. Wouldn't there have to be somebody ignorant of the possibility in order for it to be.... I forget.
	__________________ Extraordinary discoveries have been made using mundane evidence.

6th August 2009, 05:56 PM	#2
Singularitarian Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,008	You wouldn't be able to travel before the creation of the time machine, so its pointless. This is because of the chronological principle created by Dr Hawking.
Singularitarian Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,008

6th August 2009, 06:04 PM	#4
chuck4842 Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Piedmont NC Posts: 605	Originally Posted by Singularitarian You wouldn't be able to travel before the creation of the time machine, so its pointless. This is because of the chronological principle created by Dr Hawking. I don't quite understand, what if the time machine was there at the beginning.
	__________________ Extraordinary discoveries have been made using mundane evidence.

6th August 2009, 06:09 PM	#5
BobG Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 382	I would relive my love life. Imagine if I had known then what I know now! I would have had a very good time. By the way. I don't believe in time travel. The past is the past and that's gone. We will not see the future until it arrives. That leaves the present and that is all there is. However, time travel is still fun to speculate about. Bob Guercio
BobG Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 382	Last edited by BobG; 6th August 2009 at 06:23 PM.

6th August 2009, 06:11 PM	#6
Singularitarian Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,008	If the time machine existed from the beginning [ of time ] i presume, then who would have been present to create it?
Singularitarian Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,008

6th August 2009, 05:57 PM	#3
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	if I could travel to the past....there is one and only one thing I would do. I would kill Hitler at birth. or Jesus. =)

6th August 2009, 06:15 PM	#7
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Were there a time machine available to you, and you did anything that changed the past, might that alter the availability of the time machine to you now? As you don't have a time machine available, you haven't traveled to the past. It's a conundrum worse than the worst circular logic imaginable!

6th August 2009, 06:35 PM	#8
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	Just walk away is my advice. I thought it would be fun, and now I'm stuck here, and good luck getting parts. I wish I'd traveled into the future instead. Live and learn...
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444

6th August 2009, 07:04 PM	#9
ejk Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 380	Step on a butterfly, then come home. Just to see. Or, inspired by Bob Guercio, maybe it's more about what I wouldn't do, given the chance to (not) do it again.

6th August 2009, 07:07 PM	#10
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 16,367	I'd go back to just before clicking on this thread and move on to the next one.

6th August 2009, 07:10 PM	#11
EventHorizon Atheist Tergiversator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,848	What would I do? Probably Marilyn Monroe.

6th August 2009, 07:13 PM	#12
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by Singularitarian You wouldn't be able to travel before the creation of the time machine, so its pointless. This is because of the chronological principle created by Dr Hawking. Originally Posted by Singularitarian If the time machine existed from the beginning [ of time ] i presume, then who would have been present to create it? Dude, it is just a hypothetical question.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

6th August 2009, 07:17 PM	#13
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,827	Originally Posted by ejk Step on a butterfly, then come home. Just to see. Or, inspired by Bob Guercio, maybe it's more about what I wouldn't do, given the chance to (not) do it again. I cannot imagine a more appropriate answer to this particular question. Well played.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

6th August 2009, 07:19 PM	#14
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by chuck4842 I don't quite understand... I think he is referring to one popular idea physicists have proposed to travel into the past: Step 1: Make a wormhole. Step 2: Take one of the openings and accelerate it to near the speed of light. Relativity says you and the opening will travel into the future. Step 3: Jump into that opening. Step 4: Come out the other end of the wormhole, which has remained in the past. As you can see, this method is limited because the time traveler could not go back to a time before the creation of the wormhole.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust? Last edited by KingMerv00; 6th August 2009 at 07:21 PM.

6th August 2009, 07:32 PM	#15
Sir Robin Goodfellow Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Estevan (wear da fox hat) Posts: 2,751	I would punch Oliver Cromwell in the throat and fart in his face. I just hate him so much! Then I'd start wagering on everything.

6th August 2009, 07:32 PM	#16
MikeSun5 Trigger Happy Pacifist, Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,877	Originally Posted by parky76 if I could travel to the past....there is one and only one thing I would do. I would kill Hitler at birth. Saw that once on the Twilight Zone. It won't work. The mom names her second son Adolf as well. Sorry. Anyway, I'd go back to just before the Beatles and Jimi Hendrix came out and claim I wrote all those songs.
	__________________ I always wondered if those WWJD bracelets worked, so I bought one. Well later, I was on a plane and this little kid was kicking my seat repeatedly, while his sister sang along with her walkman and their mother just sat there. I almost turned around and went off, and then I caught sight of my bracelet. What would Jesus do? So I lit them on fire and sent them all to Hell. --Daniel Tosh

6th August 2009, 07:33 PM	#17
patchbunny Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2004 Location: Right about... here. Posts: 1,553	Kill George Lucas with a shovel.
	__________________ "So, they laugh at my boner, will they? I'll show them! I'll show them how many boners the Joker can make!" -- The Joker, Batman #66

6th August 2009, 07:55 PM	#18
Hokulele Official Nemesis Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Trying to decide whether to set defenses against an army, or against mole rats. Posts: 27,272	See what dinosaur tastes like. Yeah, I know. Chicken.
	__________________ Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" Some person: "Why did you shoot that?" Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" - Tragic Monkey

6th August 2009, 07:59 PM	#19
rharbers Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Peeltown Texas Posts: 296	This time I would cheat on that important exam.
	__________________ "(The fight in hot blood) appertains to all ages, and will no doubt endure until at least man has been civilized out of all manhood. Ted Huber

6th August 2009, 08:00 PM	#20
vIQleS Muse Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Auckland NZ Posts: 861	I'd go back a day and win lotto. Boring I know - sorry, but there you are... Or if you want the eXtreme version: Try and prevent the dark ages... (and while I'm there I'll set up a small term deposit or buy a plot of land )
	__________________ ==--New NZ Skeptical Podcast--== http://thecusp.org.nz "vIQleS, Slap me. Slap me twice." - Foolmewunz

6th August 2009, 08:16 PM	#21
Simon39759 Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,285	Originally Posted by Hokulele See what dinosaur tastes like. Yeah, I know. Chicken. Dinosaur's meat does indeed taste a bit like chicken, except incredibly more delicious. I would probably find myself a nice tribe of neolythic farmers and speed the emergence of civilization a bit, try to shorten all these millennia of pointless slaughtering.

6th August 2009, 08:25 PM	#22
Towlie ancillary character Join Date: May 2009 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,476	I'd go back to about AD 30 and teach the Pharisees that it's better for the future of mankind to tar and feather a troublemaker instead of killing him.

6th August 2009, 08:37 PM	#23
MikeSun5 Trigger Happy Pacifist, Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,877	Originally Posted by Towlie I'd go back to about AD 30 and teach the Pharisees that it's better for the future of mankind to tar and feather a troublemaker instead of killing him. Then people would be wearing little tar-and-feather necklaces instead of crosses. I think it was Lenny Bruce who I stole that joke from... he said if Jesus was killed in recent times, people would be getting jewelry and tattoos that depict a dude in an electric chair.
	__________________ I always wondered if those WWJD bracelets worked, so I bought one. Well later, I was on a plane and this little kid was kicking my seat repeatedly, while his sister sang along with her walkman and their mother just sat there. I almost turned around and went off, and then I caught sight of my bracelet. What would Jesus do? So I lit them on fire and sent them all to Hell. --Daniel Tosh

6th August 2009, 08:41 PM	#24
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	Back in college, I wrote a story about Jesus starting his ministry circa 1940. He was a plumber. People wore shower nozzles.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444

6th August 2009, 09:15 PM	#25
MikeSun5 Trigger Happy Pacifist, Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,877	Originally Posted by bokonon Back in college, I wrote a story about Jesus starting his ministry circa 1940. He was a plumber. People wore shower nozzles. lol. <Insert walk on water/parting the sea/pipe organ joke here>
	__________________ I always wondered if those WWJD bracelets worked, so I bought one. Well later, I was on a plane and this little kid was kicking my seat repeatedly, while his sister sang along with her walkman and their mother just sat there. I almost turned around and went off, and then I caught sight of my bracelet. What would Jesus do? So I lit them on fire and sent them all to Hell. --Daniel Tosh

6th August 2009, 09:59 PM	#26
billw Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Far North Glendale Posts: 463	That's an easy one. I want to visit Southern California during the maximum glaciation period of the Late Pleistocene - say, about 18,000 years ago. Giant ground sloths, mammoths and mastodons, saber-toothed cats, dire wolves, bison, camels, llamas, horses, lions and tigers and tapirs and bears, oh my...
	__________________ I may be going to hell in a bucket But at least I'm enjoying the ride. -- John Perry Barlow

6th August 2009, 11:51 PM	#27
Dutchman Scholar Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 58	Originally Posted by parky76 if I could travel to the past....there is one and only one thing I would do. I would kill Hitler at birth. Going back in time to kill an innocent baby.... you evil monster you!
Dutchman Scholar Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 58

7th August 2009, 02:39 AM	#28
asmodean Turing Complete Join Date: May 2005 Location: Northern arctic tundra, second igloo on the left Posts: 673	Originally Posted by parky76 if I could travel to the past....there is one and only one thing I would do. I would kill Hitler at birth. be careful: http://www.viruscomix.com/page382.html
	__________________ "C code. C code run. Run code, run ... Please?" Most Christians treat the Bible like a software license. They don’t actually read it, they just scroll to the bottom and click, ” I agree.”

7th August 2009, 03:02 AM	#29
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Pither Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,682	Nefertiti
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon The Australasian Skeptics Forum

7th August 2009, 04:46 AM	#30
kimota Scholar Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 111	Originally Posted by chuck4842 Just pondering I guess. Hey! Stop John Wilkes Boothe, long live the Union! Have you considered that John Wilkes Boothe and Lee Harvey Oswald may be time travelers themselves? They could be the greatest reviled heroes the United States will never know. I was going to go back to build a huge cache of valuable key Golden Age comic books, stored in an environment that would help preserve their condition, but I think Chuck Rozanski beat me to that idea.
kimota Scholar Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 111

7th August 2009, 06:25 AM	#31
catbasket atheist godfather Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The naughty step Posts: 1,486	Quote: If you could travel into the past what would you do? Hmm, difficult. I guess the best thing to do would be to ask for suggestions, maybe on an internet forum. So, chuck4842, when do you leave?
	__________________ Mathew 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

7th August 2009, 06:38 AM	#32
Michael Redman Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 3,063	If we're not worried about paradoxes, I would find my teenage self and give him some of the wisdom I've learned about enjoying life. And a heads up on upcoming events, of course. For wagering. I think I would tell him to become a brewmaster.
	__________________ The rule is perfect; in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane. - Mark Twain

7th August 2009, 06:53 AM	#33
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,198	Originally Posted by chuck4842 Just pondering I guess. Hey! Stop John Wilkes Boothe, long live the Union! Kill the guy who invented the wheel, that would slow things down. Would time stop if you went back and saved the life who in the future killed your parent? Is there a study or theory of what could happen if time travel was possible? What if...hey, what if it was actually going on right now and we are the current up to date result. Wouldn't there have to be somebody ignorant of the possibility in order for it to be.... I forget. I'd convert Jack Chick to atheism.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

7th August 2009, 06:59 AM	#34
Guybrush Threepwood Trainee Pirate Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: An Uaimh Posts: 1,564	I'm surprised no-one else has posted this one but I'd do my Granny, fathering my own father and destroying causality. It also means that later I'd go into the future and have a robot as my best friend. Double win!

7th August 2009, 07:09 AM	#35
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home is wherever I'm with you Posts: 26,476	Score some VW parts.
	__________________ Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Take his fish away and tell him he's lucky just to be alive, and he'll figure out how to catch another one for you to take tomorrow. "...untrustworthy obnoxious twerp." - CFLarsen