Idiot right winger claims to have been assaulted.

[leftysergeant]

At a recent town hall on the health care issue, a group of right wing agitators attempted to storm their way into an already over-filled room and then started snivelling that they were assaulted. One creep appears to have torn his own shirt and scratched himself to support this claim.

He was, however, not peacefully assembling with his fellows. From the moment he appeared on camera, he was acting outside the limits of the law.

I hope his scratches get infected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kxaGfClPws

[applecorped]

No bias here.

[corplinx]

"You know who else was faking it? Christopher Reeve. It was part of the right wing plot to undercut stem cell research by having the star of Superman 4 associated with it"

[tyr_13]

I saw a bunch of shouters trying to disrupt a town hall meeting and being ejected. I don't know if the green shirt guy did it to himself, but the police officer there didn't seem to be too concerned. He likely had it happen while he was trying to unlawfully force his way in.

[parky76]

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

At a recent town hall on the health care issue, a group of right wing agitators attempted to storm their way into an already over-filled room and then started snivelling that they were assaulted. One creep appears to have torn his own shirt and scratched himself to support this claim.

He was, however, not peacefully assembling with his fellows. From the moment he appeared on camera, he was acting outside the limits of the law.

I hope his scratches get infected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kxaGfClPws

Wow. I've never used the term before, but it appears these guys were just a bunch of aggitators...out to aggitate things.

"Hear our voice"??? How about you let others talk first.

Freedom of Speech doesn't mean others have to listen to you when you DON'T respect the freedom of speech of those you oppose.

This was not democracy in action. This was a bunch of folks being willfully disruptive to STIFLE speech...not be part of it.

[Bob Klase]

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kxaGfClPws

You sure that's the correct link? I wasted 3 minutes watching it and didn't see anything that you're talking about (ie snivelling or making claims about assault).

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

He was, however, not peacefully assembling with his fellows. From the moment he appeared on camera, he was acting outside the limits of the law.

If you're talking about this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpHb...eature=related

I still don't see any evidence he's outside the law by being on camera.

[corplinx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnT3Uevy5rU

Here you can see the thugs muscling the guy up in the corner. Supposedly part of the problem is that that they wouldn't let people fill in the room. They held seats on the front rows and stuffed them with union astroturf.

From what I have viewed, after the thugs shoved the people standing out, all control and decorum left on the inside vanishes as people shout and use the name of Penn and Teller's show liberally.

[DC]

crazy

[corplinx]

Can anyone else see one of these things getting out of control when the legimate dissenters, the loyal defenders, some fringe nutjobs, and some union thugs all converge in a stuffy room?

[Neally]

Quote:

Freedom of Speech doesn't mean others have to listen to you when you DON'T respect the freedom of speech of those you oppose.

This was not democracy in action. This was a bunch of folks being willfully disruptive to STIFLE speech...not be part of it.

Right. Just like these Code Pinkers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aAU76bqL4Y

[tyr_13]

Right, like those idiots. Only I think the recent nutters have more sponsors.

[gtc]

Is this the same incident?

ETA. I think that one is from St. Louis, the one in the O.P. is from Tampa.

[corplinx]

Originally Posted by gtc

Is this the same incident?

Wow. When Obama said he wanted his supporters to punch back, they took him literally.

[Alt+F4]

First of all, these "town hall meetings" on health care should be canceled until participants learn to behave like adults and stop all the name calling. This isn't democracy in action, it's like a second-grade school yard fight. Secondly, The New York Times had a good opinion piece on the whole embarassing mess today:

Quote:

Am I the only one to suspect that the debate over health care has turned into a nationwide avant-garde performance based on “Rashomon”? Everyone has his or her individual truth, and feels that everyone else is not just wrong, but is lying with the basest of motives. So, from these individual truths, are we gaining any understanding of the objective big picture? Or are we, like the four tale-tellers in Kurosawa’s film, simply looking out for ourselves?

LInk:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...a-sick-debate/

[leftysergeant]

Originally Posted by corplinx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnT3Uevy5rU
Here you can see the thugs muscling the guy up in the corner. Supposedly part of the problem is that that they wouldn't let people fill in the room. They held seats on the front rows and stuffed them with union astroturf.

Hog snot. There were people standing inside, and where did anyone see empty chairs up front? I didn't.

Quote:

From what I have viewed, after the thugs shoved the people standing out, all control and decorum left on the inside vanishes as people shout and use the name of Penn and Teller's show liberally.

Total BS. They were chanting already when the attempt was made to close the doors. The room was full. It would have been illegal and unsafe to admit any more people, especially a bunch of ranting sociopaths looking for a way to harrass a politician for whom they would never vote to begin with.

And where the hell do people get the idea that these were SEIU and ACORN people? I saw uniformed security officers in the door way several times.

The only person I saw actually attack another was green shirt punk. He was pushing his way in and even tried to get around behind the cop.

He should have been hauled out in shackles just for that. I hope he gets Staph a in his scratches.

[leftysergeant]

Originally Posted by corplinx

Can anyone else see one of these things getting out of control when the legimate dissenters, the loyal defenders, some fringe nutjobs, and some union thugs all converge in a stuffy room?

"Legitimate dissenters" do not arive at the venue chanting their BS slogans. Everyone within arm's reach of the door was heckling the staff.

I'd have slammed the door before they got that close.

The Astroturfers are a threat to public safety and should be arrested when and where identified.

[The Painter]

Quote:

"Legitimate dissenters" do not arive at the venue chanting their BS slogans.

Yes they do. That is not illegal. Maybe you approve of the "Free Speech Zones" they used at both party conventions. You can say anything you want, just do it over there where no one can hear you. Is that what you like?

[Random]

Originally Posted by Alt+F4

First of all, these "town hall meetings" on health care should be canceled until participants learn to behave like adults and stop all the name calling. This isn't democracy in action, it's like a second-grade school yard fight. <snip>]

Well, that's pretty much the goal of the insurance companies. Stop liberals from getting their heathcare proposals out to the public, and make sure that only insurance company complaints are heard.

[leftysergeant]

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

You sure that's the correct link? I wasted 3 minutes watching it and didn't see anything that you're talking about (ie snivelling or making claims about assault).

I had some computer problems. I got the link to his crime to post, but for some reason, couldn't get his snivelling lies to link before I left for work.

Quote:

If you're talking about this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpHb...eature=related

Yes, that was the one I had tried to put up following the first clip[. He was outside the law because he was tresspassing after the people in charge inside made the determination that the room was already filled to capacity. He was trying to physically shove his way through any way. It is against the law to do so, and for good reason. The Fire Marshal in each juriosdiction, sets a number of people who can safely occupy a room on the basis of eas of egress and available space. Once you have reached this limit, any emergency situation becomes exponentially more life-threatening with each extra body in the room. You reach a point where people WILL be trampled in any attempt to evacuate. If one or more of the extra bodies in the room are flaming sociopaths, the risk is even more amplified.

Green shirt guy is a flaming sociopath, and a damned aggressive one. I did not see anyone else lay a hand on him before his shirt got ripped, but I did see him getting belly-to-belly with a large man who was trying to clear the crowd out.

Then I saw him try to get around behind the cop who arrived. Cops generally do not like angry, dishevelled guys with spittle running down their chins getting between them and a door that the cops are there to secure.

Green shirt punk should just count himself lucky not to have wound up on the soup and tapioca diet in jail.

Quote:

I still don't see any evidence he's outside the law by being on camera.

I believe I said that from the moment he appeared on camera he was outside the law. At all times when he is visible, he is trying to infiltrate a room that appears to have surpassed the usual Fire Marshal's occupancy limit. That means he was committing the minor misdemeanor of tresspassing, and may have actually assaulted the big guy in the white shirt.

I take far more pleasure from his discomfiture than you can imagine. I hope he does lose teeth the next time.

[Alt+F4]

Originally Posted by Random

Well, that's pretty much the goal of the insurance companies. Stop liberals from getting their heathcare proposals out to the public, and make sure that only insurance company complaints are heard.

But these shouting and shoving matches don't get anyone's message out. Name-calling such as "union thugs" and "astroturfers" doesn't advance any argument.

[leftysergeant]

Originally Posted by The Painter

Yes they do. That is not illegal. Maybe you approve of the "Free Speech Zones" they used at both party conventions. You can say anything you want, just do it over there where no one can hear you. Is that what you like?

Stop it right there. Arriving intent on not letting the congress member explain to the public what the bill is about is a felony. Conspiracy to deny the congressperson the First Ammendment right to free speech, and her constituents' rights to hear her, rather than the gutter trash like green shirt punk.

These are todays' Sturmabteilung and they do not belong in my country.

[The Painter]

Quote:

is a felony

Please cite the law.

[Brainster]

What's the big deal? It's not like the man who was beaten up was a white guy. Just good, old-fashioned Democrats from the 1960s beating up a piece of trash.

[leftysergeant]

Originally Posted by Brainster

What's the big deal? It's not like the man who was beaten up was a white guy. Just good, old-fashioned Democrats from the 1960s beating up a piece of trash.

Are wec watching the same video clips? I do nmot see anybody attacking green shirt punk, but i do see him getting in people's faces and trying to get behind a cop, who, for reasons unphathomable, does not bother to arrest his
sorry butt.

And then, in the on-the-street interview where he shows off his possibly-self-inflicted scratch, he makes some remark about the cops arriving and separating the combatants as thosugh to imply that the cops had to drag union muscle off of the rent-a-mobbers.

Only cop I saw was schooling greenshirt punk about walking behind a cop looking like a drunk freshly-ejected from a bar rooom.

[Brainster]

He was guilty of protesting Obama while black. Serves him right! Gotta stop these coloreds before they get too uppity and think they can be Republicans.

ETA: Here's the video of the black guy getting it.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

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Where have you gone, Bull Conner?

[Bikewer]

NPR had a segment on these sorts of events yesterday. We had one here in St. Louis County a few days previously; the legislator who showed up for a "town-hall meeting" was shouted down by protesters, and a fight broke out.

The two sides say...

1. Free speech. Our legislators are not listening to the will of the people, and are planning to vote the party line regardless. We need to make our voices heard.

Or, on the other...

2. Agitators organized and bussed-in by GOP operatives, Health-care industry types, etc.

Many find the complex debates on this issue hard to follow, and there is an awful lot of heated rhetoric flying around.
I admit that to many who have good, solid health-care plans and HMOs, the idea of "socialized medicine" and regulation may be frightening. Taxes are always a dirty word.
Likewise, the costs associated with any kind of reform seem daunting.

However, what do these folks who are already taken care of reasonably propose to do about those that are not? One can argue about the actual numbers of uninsured, but it's without doubt quite large, and getting larger as unemployment approaches 10%.
Don't the insured realize that their costs go up as hospitals raise fees to pay for the uninsured?
That they are paying for the uninsured anyway?

One wouldn't like to think it was simply a case of "I've got mine"...That the poor can simply go crawl into a hole somewhere...

I recall some years ago that 60 minutes did a segment on a fellow who had a gall-bladder removal and was presented with a bill for 40,000 dollars. He was astounded, and demanded an itemized bill, which the hospital grudgingly furnished. He began his own investigation, going line-by-line to show that the prices of nearly everything on the bill were vastly inflated.
Finally, a hospital director admitted that they were overcharging insurance companies to pay for folks who had no insurance. I remember reading that a single gang-type shooting victim in inner-city areas would accumulate bills in excess of 100,000 dollars. None of which would be paid, of course.

This effort at health-care reform seems doomed at this point, between partisan wrangling, industry fudging, and public fear.
I wonder if it's possible to arrive at a reasonable solution.

[Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Bikewer

NPR had a segment on these sorts of events yesterday. We had one here in St. Louis County a few days previously; the legislator who showed up for a "town-hall meeting" was shouted down by protesters, and a fight broke out.

The two sides say...

1. Free speech. Our legislators are not listening to the will of the people, and are planning to vote the party line regardless. We need to make our voices heard.

Or, on the other...

2. Agitators organized and bussed-in by GOP operatives, Health-care industry types, etc.

Many find the complex debates on this issue hard to follow, and there is an awful lot of heated rhetoric flying around.
I admit that to many who have good, solid health-care plans and HMOs, the idea of "socialized medicine" and regulation may be frightening. Taxes are always a dirty word.
Likewise, the costs associated with any kind of reform seem daunting.

However, what do these folks who are already taken care of reasonably propose to do about those that are not? One can argue about the actual numbers of uninsured, but it's without doubt quite large, and getting larger as unemployment approaches 10%.
Don't the insured realize that their costs go up as hospitals raise fees to pay for the uninsured?
That they are paying for the uninsured anyway?

One wouldn't like to think it was simply a case of "I've got mine"...That the poor can simply go crawl into a hole somewhere...

I recall some years ago that 60 minutes did a segment on a fellow who had a gall-bladder removal and was presented with a bill for 40,000 dollars. He was astounded, and demanded an itemized bill, which the hospital grudgingly furnished. He began his own investigation, going line-by-line to show that the prices of nearly everything on the bill were vastly inflated.
Finally, a hospital director admitted that they were overcharging insurance companies to pay for folks who had no insurance. I remember reading that a single gang-type shooting victim in inner-city areas would accumulate bills in excess of 100,000 dollars. None of which would be paid, of course.

This effort at health-care reform seems doomed at this point, between partisan wrangling, industry fudging, and public fear.
I wonder if it's possible to arrive at a reasonable solution.

Any evidence of this bussing in? For the GOP that is.

[Bikewer]

None was furnished in the interview they did with the folks from Texas. The "Tea Party" representative claimed that her "callup list" was entirely made up of individuals from the district.

Juan Williams, commenting this morning on Weekend Edition, said that it was his opinion that the Obama administration was doing a rather poor job of explaining their ideas.
Other commentators have said, "what idea?".... As no clear, unified plan has yet emerged from the legislature.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

At a recent town hall on the health care issue, a group of right wing agitators attempted to storm their way into an already over-filled room and then started snivelling that they were assaulted. One creep appears to have torn his own shirt and scratched himself to support this claim.

He was, however, not peacefully assembling with his fellows. From the moment he appeared on camera, he was acting outside the limits of the law.

I hope his scratches get infected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kxaGfClPws

If these people had been Anti Iraq War Demonstrators, would you have felt the same?
I think this behavior is stupid and backfires, but it's not like the Left has not done the same damn thing.
And I also note that I wonder if Painter would be defender the rights of the demonstrators if they were on the political left?
A

[leftysergeant]

I don't recall any large numbers of crazies invading venues to protest the Iraq invasion. I don't recall any large numbers of war protestors attacking and harrassing pro-invasion rallies.

I did see military-age males assaulting old retired guys and women and kids who turned out to protest the invasion. Why weren't those macho creeps in uniform themselves, putting their butts in harm's way? I did during the Vietnam war, even though i opposed that venture. Now I just want a bunch of Republican bullies to do the same, to show the same level of manliness in support of their cause.

(I also expect to turn up gold nuggets the next time I go out to work in the garden.)

The GOP and extremist members, stirred on by the useless fools they listen to on the radio, are begining to look more and more like the Nazis of 1930 in the way they present themselves on the street.

[FlamingMoe]

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

These are todays' Sturmabteilung and they do not belong in my country.

Melodrama much?

[trvlr2]

Originally Posted by FlamingMoe

Melodrama much?

C'mon, Moe! It's the politics section!

Gotta have the melodrama. Rule 27? 42?

[MattusMaximus]

Good grief, this is just atrocious.

Full disclosure: I took part in some protests leading up to the Iraq War and immediately afterward. I decided to stop involving myself in those protests when I saw 1) the weird fringe element from the left such events tended to attract, and 2) the behavior of some of my fellow protesters when interacting with others who disagreed with them. I also eventually came to the conclusion that such protests were largely ineffective, and that ranting & shouting on the street simply wasn't a constructive way to affect positive change.

I can see the same thing happening now with the GOP and this health care issue, except that it is happening on a much larger scale and with much more intensity. It is astonishing to see how quickly & broadly this has happened to what was once a respectable party.

And to be clear, I'm not upset just the crap at these meetings, but the behavior of most people posting in this thread, including some of my fellow Democrats (that's you, lefty).

No wonder the country is so damn polarized. You're acting like children. Grow up.

[leftysergeant]

Originally Posted by FlamingMoe

Melodrama much?

The only accoutremant of the SA that is missing is the truncheons....SO FAR.

[Ysidro]

Originally Posted by Alt+F4

But these shouting and shoving matches don't get anyone's message out. Name-calling such as "union thugs" and "astroturfers" doesn't advance any argument.

But that's the point. They're doing this to stop any message from getting out. They want to drown out any discussion of change at least until someone comes along who discusses what they want to hear. Then I'm sure they'll be as quiet as lambs.

[Skeptic]

Quote:

"Legitimate dissenters" do not arrive at the venue chanting their BS slogans.

I tend to agree -- you should arrange your own damn conference, not crash other people's -- but, I could have SWORN that only a year ago or so, when Bush was in office, doing JUST THAT to conferences of people who support his policies was considered not only legitimate dissent, but brave and wonderful and "the highest form of patriotism" and so on.

I agree with MatthusMaximus that the roles in the idiots' game have changed: idiot Democrats are whining about being censored by rude protesters and claiming it is a huge organized conspiracy by their political opponents... while idiot Republicans are supporting shout-them-down protests... the exact opposite of what the situation was until January 20th, when the idiots on both sides took the reverse positions.

Both positions are silly, but the difference is that the Democrats' top brass are taking sides in this fight, seeing right-wing "conspiracies" everywhere and asking folks to please report to the government those who speak against it.

THAT is very worrying. It means that the "Republicans are eeeeeeeeeeevil, we better watch them closely!" and "If people don't agree with us, it's because a huge right-wing conspiracy had brainwashed them!" meme is not just limited to the Bush-is-Hitler loudmouths, but had spread all the way up to the top brass in the Democratic party, up to and including the majority leader in Congress, the head of the DNC, and (to judge by the "tell us what evil lies your neighbor thinks about us" appeal) the White House itself.

[leftysergeant]

Originally Posted by Skeptic

I tend to agree -- you should arrange your own damn conference, not crash other people's -- but, I could have SWORN that only a year ago or so, when Bush was in office, doing JUST THAT to conferences of people who support his policies was considered not only legitimate dissent, but brave and wonderful and "the highest form of patriotism" and so on.

Care to show us a documented case in which Democrats and war protestors showed up in such huge numbers to make such total asses of themselves as green shirt punk and his gang did?

Quote:

Both positions are silly, but the difference is that the Democrats' top brass are taking sides in this fight, seeing right-wing "conspiracies" everywhere and asking folks to please report to the government those who speak against it.

The GOP operatives actually brag about their success in the smack-down of Democratic congress people. And will you get it straight about what the reporting of emails is about? It is not about dissent, but about the sorts of viral emails that are being sent out by people who actually believe what that barking mad former governor from Alaska said about the Obama aggenda.

[Skeptic]

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Will you get it straight about what the reporting of emails is about? It is not about dissent, but about the sorts of viral emails that are being sent out by people who actually believe what that barking mad former governor from Alaska said about the Obama aggenda.

I hardly agree with your characterization of Palin, but even if it were true, so what? People have the right to believe what they want and to send any emails they want without the government snooping on them or asking citizens for help in doing so.

Bush didn't blow up the twin towers on 9/11 -- I suppose you agree with that, at least -- but if the Bush White House had demanded citizens to forward to it the e-mail it gets from those who think so, that would be just as wrong as what Obama is asking people to do.

If those viral e-mails makes a government's plan less popular, then that's just too damn bad. They should do a better job explaining it, then.

The government claiming it is not REALLY asking people to snoop on their neighbors, but "only" asking the citizenry to report the lies said about by some crazy and evil people, is a well-known trick. What it really means is: "only crazy and evil people would possibly oppose us! And you're not one of them, are you?! Prove you're not -- be a good boy and report them to us!"

It doesn't take long before the list of "crazy evil people" whose supporters must be reported so that the government can keep an eye on them includes just about everybody who agrees with any popular member of the opposition (e.g., Palin or Limbaugh).

[leftysergeant]

Originally Posted by Skeptic

I hardly agree with your characterization of Palin, but even if it were true, so what?

Are you going to say that Palin is not a lying little sack of detritus?

What is wrong with that is that people have a tendancy to blieve the lies that the tramp is spreading. She is abusing her position of fame to do harm to the public debate and inflaming the passions of the criminal element. That gets people killed. She is a danger to civilization.

Quote:

Bush didn't blow up the twin towers on 9/11 -- I suppose you agree with that, at least -- but if the Bush White House had demanded citizens to forward to it the e-mail it gets from those who think so, that would be just as wrong as what Obama is asking people to do.

Get it straight. The Shrub was asking utility workers and contractors and the postal service to actively spie on people. That is criminal. All Obama is asking for is a heads-up on what sort of garbage they may have thrown at them. And, if there is a death threat or a suggestuion that mob violence is being spread, he deserves to know that, too.

A lot of those dirtbags would actually feel no remorse if something they said got Obama shot. For that, they should rot in hell.

Quote:

If those viral e-mails makes a government's plan less popular, then that's just too damn bad. They should do a better job explaining it, then.

The congress members ho would do the explaining are being shouted down and not allowed to speak because lying trash like Palin are stirring up the monkeys and preventing public debate.

[mortimer]

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Care to show us a documented case in which Democrats and war protestors showed up in such huge numbers to make such total asses of themselves as green shirt punk and his gang did?

When I searched for "protests at free speech zones", this is the first youtube video that came up. It seems there are a number of protesters, replete with one who claimed to have been assaulted.

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