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Thunder · 9th August 2009, 04:11 PM

I was told today that Hispanic people are a race.

Not a culture..but an actual race.

Hispanics can be as pale as this page..or as black as my keyboard. They can have dark brown eyes or light green eyes. They can be blond..or have black hair.

Hispanics are clearly NOT a race. Hispanics started out as folks who came from Spain, but it now includes all the immigrants to followed them to these Spanish speaking countries and became part of the culture.

One can have Italian, German, Irish, Swedish, native American, Russian-Jewish, Spanish, African, Korean, ancestry..and be part of the Hispanic culture.

Hispanic...is NOT a race.

Old Bob · 9th August 2009, 04:34 PM

Same as Jews.

paximperium · 9th August 2009, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Old Bob

Same as Jews.

Or whites.

GreNME · 9th August 2009, 04:40 PM

Why the hell does this question come up so often here?

The term Hispanic is an ethnonym, with it and Latino (also an ethnonym) being used interchangeably in the US.

MaGZ · 9th August 2009, 04:44 PM

I would think someone living in Central or South America who is of whole Spanish descent would not want to be considered Hispanic, but Spanish or European or White. Hispanics today denotes the brown people of Latin American, so the word today does have racial connotations.

Thunder · 9th August 2009, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Old Bob

Same as Jews.

well, I'm sure there is a whoooool lot more inclusion of non-Spanish ethnic groups into the Hispanic ethnic family then there are non-Jews into the Jewish family.

genetic studies have shown common chromosomal traits amoung many Jewish men. I doubt Hispanics of Italian and German ancestors are descendents of the same dudes.

but I do understand the analogy.

Thunder · 9th August 2009, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

I would think someone living in Central or South America who is of whole Spanish descent would not want to be considered Hispanic, but Spanish or European or White. Hispanics today denotes the brown people of Latin America, so the word today does have racial connotations.

wrong....wrong...wrong.

Hispanic is used to describe anyone from any of the Latin American countries. they can have blue eyes and blond hair..or dark eyes, skin, and hair.

Blonds from Argentina call themselves Hispanic.

paximperium · 9th August 2009, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

I would think someone living in Central or South America who is of whole Spanish descent would not want to be considered Hispanic, but Spanish or European or White. Hispanics today denotes the brown people of Latin American, so the word today does have racial connotations.

Hispanics mean brown people of Latin America as opposed to brown people of South Europe? Do tell.

plumjam · 9th August 2009, 04:49 PM

Qué?

Richard Masters · 9th August 2009, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

I was told today that Hispanic people are a race.

Not a culture..but an actual race.

Hispanics can be as pale as this page..or as black as my keyboard. They can have dark brown eyes or light green eyes. They can be blond..or have black hair.

Hispanics are clearly NOT a race. Hispanics started out as folks who came from Spain, but it now includes all the immigrants to followed them to these Spanish speaking countries and became part of the culture.

One can have Italian, German, Irish, Swedish, native American, Russian-Jewish, Spanish, African, Korean, ancestry..and be part of the Hispanic culture.

Hispanic...is NOT a race.

I am Hispanic and I don't consider it a race. However, to be Hispanic it's generally agreed that you need to have Spanish ancestry, speak Spanish or belong to a culture that does.

Richard Masters · 9th August 2009, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

I would think someone living in Central or South America who is of whole Spanish descent would not want to be considered Hispanic, but Spanish or European or White. Hispanics today denotes the brown people of Latin American, so the word today does have racial connotations.

That's only in the United States, where ignorance is rampant.

paximperium · 9th August 2009, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Richard Masters

That's only in the United States, where ignorance is rampant.

Now THAT is an ignorant statement that is on par to MaGZs. Congrats, I guess.

linusrichard · 9th August 2009, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

wrong....wrong...wrong.

Hispanic is used to describe anyone from any of the Latin American countries. they can have blue eyes and blond hair..or dark eyes, skin, and hair.

Blonds from Argentina call themselves Hispanic.

But do Brazilians call themselves Hispanic? I don't think they do. "Hispanic" comes from the word for "Spanish" - it's people whose ancestry can be traced to Spanish-speaking countries. Most of Latin America, yes. All of Latin America, no. For that, we have the term "Latino."

Thunder · 9th August 2009, 05:02 PM

"Still more recently, the term is used to describe the culture and people of countries formerly ruled by Spain, usually with a majority of the population having some ancestry of Spanish origin and speaking the Spanish language. These include Mexico, the majority of the Central and South American countries, and most of the Greater Antilles. There are also Spanish influences in the African nation of Equatorial Guinea,[1] and the cultures of the former Spanish East Indies - the Philippines, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands."

Thunder · 9th August 2009, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Richard Masters

That's only in the United States, where ignorance is rampant.

MaGz's views in no way represent any large portion of the USA.

Thunder · 9th August 2009, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by linusrichard

But do Brazilians call themselves Hispanic? I don't think they do. "Hispanic" comes from the word for "Spanish" - it's people whose ancestry can be traced to Spanish-speaking countries. Most of Latin America, yes. All of Latin America, no. For that, we have the term "Latino."

Hispanic comes from the word Hispania..which is the Roman name for the Iberian peninsula...which includes Spain.

MaGZ · 9th August 2009, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

wrong....wrong...wrong.

Hispanic is used to describe anyone from any of the Latin American countries. they can have blue eyes and blond hair..or dark eyes, skin, and hair.

Blonds from Argentina call themselves Hispanic.

Why would Whites in Argentina accept a label that in today's popular usage means non-White? There is a great deal of class consciousness and racial consciousness in South America between the peoples of various racial background in these countries. The Whites are on the top rung of the economic ladder in these countries, so it makes no sense they would want to be brought down to the level of a Hispanic.

MaGZ · 9th August 2009, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by paximperium

Hispanics mean brown people of Latin America as opposed to brown people of South Europe? Do tell.

The Mediterranean Race of Southern Europe are White. However, over time some now-White racial elements have drifted into the gene pool. Some Southern Italians have Sickle Cell trait.

MaGZ · 9th August 2009, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Richard Masters

I am Hispanic and I don't consider it a race. However, to be Hispanic it's generally agreed that you need to have Spanish ancestry, speak Spanish or belong to a culture that does.

I doubt the people in Spain consider themselves Hispanic. Ask them and they will say they are European.

KingMerv00 · 9th August 2009, 05:17 PM

Do we even have a good definition of "race"?

paximperium · 9th August 2009, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Do we even have a good definition of "race"?

It seems to be whatever a racist wants it to be.

GreNME · 9th August 2009, 05:22 PM

These sorts of thread seem to foster the idea that being "right" is more desirable than having a wider understanding of the differences between ethnicities.

Originally Posted by parky76

MaGz's views in no way represent any large portion of the USA.

Neither do yours, but you continue to insist your opinion. I find both of your opinions to be similarly ignorant.

Originally Posted by parky76

Hispanic comes from the word Hispania..which is the Roman name for the Iberian peninsula...which includes Spain.

Which is a dated and mostly-expired version of the word. You're making assertions that essentially demand vernacular usage be back-dated instead of ebbing and flowing like languages naturally do.

I'm calling your assertions ignorant, parky76, because you're basing them on what seems to be a desire for a hard line of demarcation for ethnic identity. However, in the US-- which is most likely where you heard the statement you find objectionable-- the term Hispanic is used generally interchangeably with Latino, which does denote an ethnic identity (among other things). Hispanic on its own just denotes a lineage to a Spanish-speaking country, in the vernacular usage.

-----

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Do we even have a good definition of "race"?

Of course not, which is why threads like this irritate me.

linusrichard · 9th August 2009, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Do we even have a good definition of "race"?

Race is a social construct. A race is whatever people consider a race to be. The Irish used to be non-white. The Japanese used to be white. There's no science behind it (except maybe social science). I would argue that the way "Hispanic" is used in the US today, it is reasonable to consider it a race.

bpesta22 · 9th August 2009, 05:25 PM

Do we have a good definition of gravity?

linusrichard · 9th August 2009, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

Hispanic comes from the word Hispania..which is the Roman name for the Iberian peninsula...which includes Spain.

Well, the Iberian peninsula includes Portugal and it doesn't include Argentina. And yet Argentineans are Hispanic and Portuguese aren't. So maybe what I was saying was right in the first place, that "Hispanic" applies to people who trace their ancestry back to Spanish-speaking countries.

MaGZ · 9th August 2009, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by linusrichard

Race is a social construct. A race is whatever people consider a race to be. The Irish used to be non-white. The Japanese used to be white. There's no science behind it (except maybe social science). I would argue that the way "Hispanic" is used in the US today, it is reasonable to consider it a race.

Where and when did this movement of race denial originate? No doubt when the 60s radicals got tenure.

paximperium · 9th August 2009, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

Where and when did this movement of race denial originate? No doubt when the 60s radicals got tenure.

Define race. Go ahead, people are eagerly waiting.

Thunder · 9th August 2009, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

Where and when did this movement of race denial originate? No doubt when the 60s radicals got tenure.

Hispanics can't be a race. Not only do they not have identical origin, but they can look as different as day and night.

Hispanics are a culture.

Richard Masters · 9th August 2009, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

I doubt the people in Spain consider themselves Hispanic. Ask them and they will say they are European.

That's generally true.

MaGZ · 9th August 2009, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by linusrichard

Race is a social construct. A race is whatever people consider a race to be. The Irish used to be non-white. The Japanese used to be white. There's no science behind it (except maybe social science). I would argue that the way "Hispanic" is used in the US today, it is reasonable to consider it a race.

Racial scientists use to hail from the very best of America's institutions of higher learning.

You can start your education here.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/List_of_race_theorists

Richard Masters · 9th August 2009, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

MaGz's views in no way represent any large portion of the USA.

I live in the Northwest and visit California often, where I hear those terms used that way very frequently.

paximperium · 9th August 2009, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

Racial scientists use to hail from the very best of America's institutions of higher learning.

You can start your education here.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/List_of_race_theorists

Still waiting

Originally Posted by paximperium

Define race. Go ahead, people are eagerly waiting.

linusrichard · 9th August 2009, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

Racial scientists use to hail from the very best of America's institutions of higher learning.

You can start your education here.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/List_of_race_theorists

I've read a lot of posts that have annoyed me, and some have even made me a little bit mad. But this is the first that has evoked a physical response, that of nausea. And I am speaking literally, not being facetious, figurative, sarcastic, or tongue-in-cheek.

Where's that "ignore" button I hear people talking so much about?

ETA: Found it.

Richard Masters · 9th August 2009, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by paximperium

Now THAT is an ignorant statement that is on par to MaGZs. Congrats, I guess.

I guess I can't speak for the Southern (old South) and Eastern states, but I'm quite certain otherwise.

MaGZ · 9th August 2009, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

Hispanics can't be a race. Not only do they not have identical origin, but they can look as different as day and night.

Hispanics are a culture.

The problem is today Hispanics in America consider themselves a race.

For example, La Raza

paximperium · 9th August 2009, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by linusrichard

I've read a lot of posts that have annoyed me, and some have even made me a little bit mad. But this is the first that has evoked a physical response, that of nausea. And I am speaking literally, not being facetious, figurative, sarcastic, or tongue-in-cheek.

Where's that "ignore" button I hear people talking so much about?

ETA: Found it.

Don't bother. His list of "race theorist" are just that, "theorists" since they all apparently come from the pre-genetics era or are journalists. It's kinda like how Creationists love to trot out their silly Argument from Authority lists.

paximperium · 9th August 2009, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

The problem is today Hispanics in America consider themselves a race.

For example, La Raza

Still waiting

Originally Posted by paximperium

Define race. Go ahead, people are eagerly waiting.

Richard Masters · 9th August 2009, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

The problem is today Hispanics in American consider themselves a race.

For example, La Raza

La Raza is a poetic term from an 1925 book. Nowadays La Raza is predominantly used as an ethnic and political identity by political groups like the Chicano movement and MeChA. It doesn't exist as such outside the United States.

Tailgater · 9th August 2009, 06:00 PM

A rough definition is just spanish-speaking people from latin america.

MaGZ · 9th August 2009, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Richard Masters

La Raza is a poetic term from an 1925 book. Nowadays La Raza is predominantly used as an ethnic and political identity by political groups like the Chicano movement and MeChA. It doesn't exist as such outside the United States.

Are you suggesting La Raza is the equalivant to the Brown man's Ku Klux Klan?

9th August 2009, 04:11 PM	#1
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Are Hispanics a Race? I was told today that Hispanic people are a race. Not a culture..but an actual race. Hispanics can be as pale as this page..or as black as my keyboard. They can have dark brown eyes or light green eyes. They can be blond..or have black hair. Hispanics are clearly NOT a race. Hispanics started out as folks who came from Spain, but it now includes all the immigrants to followed them to these Spanish speaking countries and became part of the culture. One can have Italian, German, Irish, Swedish, native American, Russian-Jewish, Spanish, African, Korean, ancestry..and be part of the Hispanic culture. Hispanic...is NOT a race.

9th August 2009, 04:34 PM	#2
Old Bob Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 649	Same as Jews.
Old Bob Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 649

9th August 2009, 04:38 PM	#3
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by Old Bob Same as Jews. Or whites.
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett

9th August 2009, 04:40 PM	#4
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	Why the hell does this question come up so often here? The term Hispanic is an ethnonym, with it and Latino (also an ethnonym) being used interchangeably in the US.
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

9th August 2009, 04:44 PM	#5
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342	I would think someone living in Central or South America who is of whole Spanish descent would not want to be considered Hispanic, but Spanish or European or White. Hispanics today denotes the brown people of Latin American, so the word today does have racial connotations.
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342

9th August 2009, 04:46 PM	#7
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by MaGZ I would think someone living in Central or South America who is of whole Spanish descent would not want to be considered Hispanic, but Spanish or European or White. Hispanics today denotes the brown people of Latin America, so the word today does have racial connotations. wrong....wrong...wrong. Hispanic is used to describe anyone from any of the Latin American countries. they can have blue eyes and blond hair..or dark eyes, skin, and hair. Blonds from Argentina call themselves Hispanic.

9th August 2009, 04:47 PM	#8
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by MaGZ I would think someone living in Central or South America who is of whole Spanish descent would not want to be considered Hispanic, but Spanish or European or White. Hispanics today denotes the brown people of Latin American, so the word today does have racial connotations. Hispanics mean brown people of Latin America as opposed to brown people of South Europe? Do tell.
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett

9th August 2009, 04:49 PM	#9
plumjam Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Valencia, Spain Posts: 7,837	Qué?

9th August 2009, 04:51 PM	#10
Richard Masters Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,030	Originally Posted by parky76 I was told today that Hispanic people are a race. Not a culture..but an actual race. Hispanics can be as pale as this page..or as black as my keyboard. They can have dark brown eyes or light green eyes. They can be blond..or have black hair. Hispanics are clearly NOT a race. Hispanics started out as folks who came from Spain, but it now includes all the immigrants to followed them to these Spanish speaking countries and became part of the culture. One can have Italian, German, Irish, Swedish, native American, Russian-Jewish, Spanish, African, Korean, ancestry..and be part of the Hispanic culture. Hispanic...is NOT a race. I am Hispanic and I don't consider it a race. However, to be Hispanic it's generally agreed that you need to have Spanish ancestry, speak Spanish or belong to a culture that does.

9th August 2009, 04:52 PM	#11
Richard Masters Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,030	Originally Posted by MaGZ I would think someone living in Central or South America who is of whole Spanish descent would not want to be considered Hispanic, but Spanish or European or White. Hispanics today denotes the brown people of Latin American, so the word today does have racial connotations. That's only in the United States, where ignorance is rampant.

9th August 2009, 04:55 PM	#12
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by Richard Masters That's only in the United States, where ignorance is rampant. Now THAT is an ignorant statement that is on par to MaGZs. Congrats, I guess.
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett

9th August 2009, 04:59 PM	#13
linusrichard Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lansing, Mich. Posts: 2,668	Originally Posted by parky76 wrong....wrong...wrong. Hispanic is used to describe anyone from any of the Latin American countries. they can have blue eyes and blond hair..or dark eyes, skin, and hair. Blonds from Argentina call themselves Hispanic. But do Brazilians call themselves Hispanic? I don't think they do. "Hispanic" comes from the word for "Spanish" - it's people whose ancestry can be traced to Spanish-speaking countries. Most of Latin America, yes. All of Latin America, no. For that, we have the term "Latino."

9th August 2009, 05:02 PM	#14
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	"Still more recently, the term is used to describe the culture and people of countries formerly ruled by Spain, usually with a majority of the population having some ancestry of Spanish origin and speaking the Spanish language. These include Mexico, the majority of the Central and South American countries, and most of the Greater Antilles. There are also Spanish influences in the African nation of Equatorial Guinea,[1] and the cultures of the former Spanish East Indies - the Philippines, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands."

9th August 2009, 05:03 PM	#15
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by Richard Masters That's only in the United States, where ignorance is rampant. MaGz's views in no way represent any large portion of the USA.

9th August 2009, 05:05 PM	#16
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by linusrichard But do Brazilians call themselves Hispanic? I don't think they do. "Hispanic" comes from the word for "Spanish" - it's people whose ancestry can be traced to Spanish-speaking countries. Most of Latin America, yes. All of Latin America, no. For that, we have the term "Latino." Hispanic comes from the word Hispania..which is the Roman name for the Iberian peninsula...which includes Spain.

9th August 2009, 05:07 PM	#17
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342	Originally Posted by parky76 wrong....wrong...wrong. Hispanic is used to describe anyone from any of the Latin American countries. they can have blue eyes and blond hair..or dark eyes, skin, and hair. Blonds from Argentina call themselves Hispanic. Why would Whites in Argentina accept a label that in today's popular usage means non-White? There is a great deal of class consciousness and racial consciousness in South America between the peoples of various racial background in these countries. The Whites are on the top rung of the economic ladder in these countries, so it makes no sense they would want to be brought down to the level of a Hispanic.
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342

9th August 2009, 05:13 PM	#18
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342	Originally Posted by paximperium Hispanics mean brown people of Latin America as opposed to brown people of South Europe? Do tell. The Mediterranean Race of Southern Europe are White. However, over time some now-White racial elements have drifted into the gene pool. Some Southern Italians have Sickle Cell trait.
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342

9th August 2009, 05:16 PM	#19
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342	Originally Posted by Richard Masters I am Hispanic and I don't consider it a race. However, to be Hispanic it's generally agreed that you need to have Spanish ancestry, speak Spanish or belong to a culture that does. I doubt the people in Spain consider themselves Hispanic. Ask them and they will say they are European.
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342

9th August 2009, 05:17 PM	#20
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Do we even have a good definition of "race"?
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

9th August 2009, 05:20 PM	#21
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 Do we even have a good definition of "race"? It seems to be whatever a racist wants it to be.
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett

9th August 2009, 05:22 PM	#22
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	These sorts of thread seem to foster the idea that being "right" is more desirable than having a wider understanding of the differences between ethnicities. Originally Posted by parky76 MaGz's views in no way represent any large portion of the USA. Neither do yours, but you continue to insist your opinion. I find both of your opinions to be similarly ignorant. Originally Posted by parky76 Hispanic comes from the word Hispania..which is the Roman name for the Iberian peninsula...which includes Spain. Which is a dated and mostly-expired version of the word. You're making assertions that essentially demand vernacular usage be back-dated instead of ebbing and flowing like languages naturally do. I'm calling your assertions ignorant, parky76, because you're basing them on what seems to be a desire for a hard line of demarcation for ethnic identity. However, in the US-- which is most likely where you heard the statement you find objectionable-- the term Hispanic is used generally interchangeably with Latino, which does denote an ethnic identity (among other things). Hispanic on its own just denotes a lineage to a Spanish-speaking country, in the vernacular usage. ----- Originally Posted by KingMerv00 Do we even have a good definition of "race"? Of course not, which is why threads like this irritate me.
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

9th August 2009, 05:24 PM	#23
linusrichard Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lansing, Mich. Posts: 2,668	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 Do we even have a good definition of "race"? Race is a social construct. A race is whatever people consider a race to be. The Irish used to be non-white. The Japanese used to be white. There's no science behind it (except maybe social science). I would argue that the way "Hispanic" is used in the US today, it is reasonable to consider it a race.

9th August 2009, 05:25 PM	#24
bpesta22 Cereal Killer Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 4,651	Do we have a good definition of gravity?
bpesta22 Cereal Killer Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 4,651	__________________ Manifest thy bosoms or decamp.

9th August 2009, 05:27 PM	#25
linusrichard Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lansing, Mich. Posts: 2,668	Originally Posted by parky76 Hispanic comes from the word Hispania..which is the Roman name for the Iberian peninsula...which includes Spain. Well, the Iberian peninsula includes Portugal and it doesn't include Argentina. And yet Argentineans are Hispanic and Portuguese aren't. So maybe what I was saying was right in the first place, that "Hispanic" applies to people who trace their ancestry back to Spanish-speaking countries.

9th August 2009, 05:34 PM	#26
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342	Originally Posted by linusrichard Race is a social construct. A race is whatever people consider a race to be. The Irish used to be non-white. The Japanese used to be white. There's no science behind it (except maybe social science). I would argue that the way "Hispanic" is used in the US today, it is reasonable to consider it a race. Where and when did this movement of race denial originate? No doubt when the 60s radicals got tenure.
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342

9th August 2009, 05:36 PM	#27
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by MaGZ Where and when did this movement of race denial originate? No doubt when the 60s radicals got tenure. Define race. Go ahead, people are eagerly waiting.
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett

9th August 2009, 05:41 PM	#28
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by MaGZ Where and when did this movement of race denial originate? No doubt when the 60s radicals got tenure. Hispanics can't be a race. Not only do they not have identical origin, but they can look as different as day and night. Hispanics are a culture.

9th August 2009, 05:41 PM	#29
Richard Masters Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,030	Originally Posted by MaGZ I doubt the people in Spain consider themselves Hispanic. Ask them and they will say they are European. That's generally true.

9th August 2009, 05:42 PM	#30
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342	Originally Posted by linusrichard Race is a social construct. A race is whatever people consider a race to be. The Irish used to be non-white. The Japanese used to be white. There's no science behind it (except maybe social science). I would argue that the way "Hispanic" is used in the US today, it is reasonable to consider it a race. Racial scientists use to hail from the very best of America's institutions of higher learning. You can start your education here. http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/List_of_race_theorists
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342

9th August 2009, 05:43 PM	#31
Richard Masters Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,030	Originally Posted by parky76 MaGz's views in no way represent any large portion of the USA. I live in the Northwest and visit California often, where I hear those terms used that way very frequently.

9th August 2009, 05:43 PM	#32
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by MaGZ Racial scientists use to hail from the very best of America's institutions of higher learning. You can start your education here. http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/List_of_race_theorists Still waiting Originally Posted by paximperium Define race. Go ahead, people are eagerly waiting.
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett

9th August 2009, 05:44 PM	#33
linusrichard Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lansing, Mich. Posts: 2,668	Originally Posted by MaGZ Racial scientists use to hail from the very best of America's institutions of higher learning. You can start your education here. http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/List_of_race_theorists I've read a lot of posts that have annoyed me, and some have even made me a little bit mad. But this is the first that has evoked a physical response, that of nausea. And I am speaking literally, not being facetious, figurative, sarcastic, or tongue-in-cheek. Where's that "ignore" button I hear people talking so much about? ETA: Found it.

9th August 2009, 05:47 PM	#34
Richard Masters Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,030	Originally Posted by paximperium Now THAT is an ignorant statement that is on par to MaGZs. Congrats, I guess. I guess I can't speak for the Southern (old South) and Eastern states, but I'm quite certain otherwise.

9th August 2009, 05:48 PM	#35
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342	Originally Posted by parky76 Hispanics can't be a race. Not only do they not have identical origin, but they can look as different as day and night. Hispanics are a culture. The problem is today Hispanics in America consider themselves a race. For example, La Raza
MaGZ Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,342	Last edited by MaGZ; 9th August 2009 at 05:52 PM.

9th August 2009, 05:50 PM	#36
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by linusrichard I've read a lot of posts that have annoyed me, and some have even made me a little bit mad. But this is the first that has evoked a physical response, that of nausea. And I am speaking literally, not being facetious, figurative, sarcastic, or tongue-in-cheek. Where's that "ignore" button I hear people talking so much about? ETA: Found it. Don't bother. His list of "race theorist" are just that, "theorists" since they all apparently come from the pre-genetics era or are journalists. It's kinda like how Creationists love to trot out their silly Argument from Authority lists.
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett