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Greg_in_CO · 11th August 2009, 09:43 AM

Cue the anecdotal accounts (i.e. "I recently switched to all organic produce and it immediately cured my asthma, arthritis, scurvy, etc.") in 3. . . 2. . . 1 . . .

Marquis de Carabas · 11th August 2009, 10:25 AM

I recently switched back to conventionally grown produce and it cured my smug self-righteousness.

Greg_in_CO · 11th August 2009, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas

I recently switched back to conventionally grown produce and it cured my smug self-righteousness.

Safe-Keeper · 11th August 2009, 10:43 AM

Merge with the thread in Science

?

Nah, never mind, I'm personally fine with a thread here, too.

paximperium · 11th August 2009, 10:45 AM

"I recently switched from beer to 100 proof hard liqueur and it immediately made me more drunk."

tyr_13 · 11th August 2009, 03:32 PM

"I switched from evil corporate synthetic penicillin to all natural penicillin and it immediately made me vomit."

Safe-Keeper · 11th August 2009, 03:51 PM

Sorry, saw now that there'd been a new (very well-made) podcast on organic foods. I wondered why there was a new thread here all of a sudden

.

tyr_13 · 14th August 2009, 08:27 PM

Wow, the comments on this podcast on Brian's site are... colorful.

I wish they would all come here and actually debate the topic.

Safe-Keeper · 19th August 2009, 11:51 AM

Is this sub-forum an "official" Skeptoid forum, or more of a "fan" deal? Because I'm wondering if Brian couldn't just slap down a link leading here at the end of each podcast, in addition to letting viewers comment.

tyr_13 · 19th August 2009, 08:32 PM

It's the 'official' Skeptoid forum. He said it at the end of one or two of his episodes I remember. It's how I found this site in the first place.

Thanks again Mr. Dunning.

blc303 · 20th August 2009, 02:19 PM

Hi

This is my first post here. Sorry but it has to be slightly negative

While I usually agree with the tone of every podcast, I always have a slight problem with the details. This time I really want to set the record straight.

I agree with most of the points made in the Organic Farming episode, I have to disagree with something.

Brian said, “To make synthetic fertilizer, we start with nitrogen, which we extract from the atmosphere. This process is infinitely sustainable and produces no waste.”

Well, yes. And no. There is more than enough nitrogen (78%) in the atmosphere to keep up production, well, basically, forever. No problem.

Ah, but the waste question?

The “Haber-Bosch” process, used to extract usable nitrogen out of the atmosphere, is hardly wasteless. I would recommend the excellent book “The Alchemy of Air” from Thomas Hager for anyone interested. He quotes statistics that the production of “fixed nitrogen” (ammonia) makes up 1% of the world’s energy consumption (Hardcover, 2008, p 271).

Whether this is worse that cow paddies, with the appropriate amount of methane, is beyond my comprehension and research. But no waste. Sorry. CO2 is a problem.

.There is a not to be denied amount of CO2 produced from ‘non-natural’ fertiliser. A better attacking point would have been the comparison. Carbon Dioxide vs. Methane produced by those very loved natural fertilizer producers (cows/farts).

Never the less, the comment “no waste” is REALLY wrong.

Just wanted to set the record straight.

PS. I would have sent this as a personal message, but as I see it, Brian would prefer it here.

On the other hand he says “Many young people and students have never before been presented with the tools for critical thinking. “ So there it is.

tyr_13 · 20th August 2009, 09:03 PM

Welcome to the boards.

Aepervius · 20th August 2009, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Greg_in_CO

Cue the anecdotal accounts (i.e. "I recently switched to all organic produce and it immediately cured my asthma, arthritis, scurvy, etc.") in 3. . . 2. . . 1 . . .

I switched to organic and it cured me of having a full wallet

.

tyr_13 · 23rd August 2009, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by blc303

.There is a not to be denied amount of CO2 produced from ‘non-natural’ fertiliser. A better attacking point would have been the comparison. Carbon Dioxide vs. Methane produced by those very loved natural fertilizer producers (cows/farts).

Well it is worth noting that Brian did mention the fact that we simply don't have enough 'natural' sources to provide us with the need fertilizer.

Even if we did have enough horse/cow/etc crap to be used, the harvesting method would still likely produce a lot of CO2, not to mention methane. It is similar to the problem with local produce.

And no, to those of you thinking it, simply having the cows **** in the field that you're going to use next year for corn doesn't work well enough.

11th August 2009, 09:43 AM	#1
Greg_in_CO Scholar Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Between the land and the sky Posts: 107	Organic vs. Conventional Agriculture Cue the anecdotal accounts (i.e. "I recently switched to all organic produce and it immediately cured my asthma, arthritis, scurvy, etc.") in 3. . . 2. . . 1 . . .
	__________________ "May I pass along my congratulations for your great interdimensional breakthrough. I am sure, in the miserable annals of the Earth, you will be duly enshrined." Lord John Whorfin

11th August 2009, 10:25 AM	#2
Marquis de Carabas Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: vuori Posts: 27,110	I recently switched back to conventionally grown produce and it cured my smug self-righteousness.
	__________________ Jesus ... wasn't he the bloke who turned fish into wine and made the lepers multiply? -KateHL Violence is more acceptable than incest. I have been told to keep this in mind.

11th August 2009, 10:42 AM	#3
Greg_in_CO Scholar Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Between the land and the sky Posts: 107	Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas I recently switched back to conventionally grown produce and it cured my smug self-righteousness.
	__________________ "May I pass along my congratulations for your great interdimensional breakthrough. I am sure, in the miserable annals of the Earth, you will be duly enshrined." Lord John Whorfin

11th August 2009, 10:43 AM	#4
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,179	Merge with the thread in Science? Nah, never mind, I'm personally fine with a thread here, too.
	__________________

11th August 2009, 10:45 AM	#5
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	"I recently switched from beer to 100 proof hard liqueur and it immediately made me more drunk."
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett

11th August 2009, 03:32 PM	#6
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,790	"I switched from evil corporate synthetic penicillin to all natural penicillin and it immediately made me vomit."
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

11th August 2009, 03:51 PM	#7
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,179	Sorry, saw now that there'd been a new (very well-made) podcast on organic foods. I wondered why there was a new thread here all of a sudden.
	__________________

14th August 2009, 08:27 PM	#8
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,790	Wow, the comments on this podcast on Brian's site are... colorful. I wish they would all come here and actually debate the topic.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

19th August 2009, 11:51 AM	#9
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,179	Is this sub-forum an "official" Skeptoid forum, or more of a "fan" deal? Because I'm wondering if Brian couldn't just slap down a link leading here at the end of each podcast, in addition to letting viewers comment.
	__________________

19th August 2009, 08:32 PM	#10
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,790	It's the 'official' Skeptoid forum. He said it at the end of one or two of his episodes I remember. It's how I found this site in the first place. Thanks again Mr. Dunning.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

20th August 2009, 02:19 PM	#11
blc303 New Blood Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1	Well, not quite. But close Hi This is my first post here. Sorry but it has to be slightly negative While I usually agree with the tone of every podcast, I always have a slight problem with the details. This time I really want to set the record straight. I agree with most of the points made in the Organic Farming episode, I have to disagree with something. Brian said, “To make synthetic fertilizer, we start with nitrogen, which we extract from the atmosphere. This process is infinitely sustainable and produces no waste.” Well, yes. And no. There is more than enough nitrogen (78%) in the atmosphere to keep up production, well, basically, forever. No problem. Ah, but the waste question? The “Haber-Bosch” process, used to extract usable nitrogen out of the atmosphere, is hardly wasteless. I would recommend the excellent book “The Alchemy of Air” from Thomas Hager for anyone interested. He quotes statistics that the production of “fixed nitrogen” (ammonia) makes up 1% of the world’s energy consumption (Hardcover, 2008, p 271). Whether this is worse that cow paddies, with the appropriate amount of methane, is beyond my comprehension and research. But no waste. Sorry. CO2 is a problem. .There is a not to be denied amount of CO2 produced from ‘non-natural’ fertiliser. A better attacking point would have been the comparison. Carbon Dioxide vs. Methane produced by those very loved natural fertilizer producers (cows/farts). Never the less, the comment “no waste” is REALLY wrong. Just wanted to set the record straight. PS. I would have sent this as a personal message, but as I see it, Brian would prefer it here. On the other hand he says “Many young people and students have never before been presented with the tools for critical thinking. “ So there it is.
blc303 New Blood Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1

20th August 2009, 09:03 PM	#12
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,790	Welcome to the boards.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

20th August 2009, 09:34 PM	#13
Aepervius Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bierland. I mean , germany. Posts: 7,894	Originally Posted by Greg_in_CO Cue the anecdotal accounts (i.e. "I recently switched to all organic produce and it immediately cured my asthma, arthritis, scurvy, etc.") in 3. . . 2. . . 1 . . . I switched to organic and it cured me of having a full wallet .
	__________________ Omnes Blessant Ultima necat "I want, and this is my last and most dear wish, I want that the last of the king be strangled with the guts of the last priest" (Jean Meslier / 1664-1729 / Testament) A very early french atheist, a catholic priest in life.

23rd August 2009, 08:28 PM	#14
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,790	Originally Posted by blc303 .There is a not to be denied amount of CO2 produced from ‘non-natural’ fertiliser. A better attacking point would have been the comparison. Carbon Dioxide vs. Methane produced by those very loved natural fertilizer producers (cows/farts). Well it is worth noting that Brian did mention the fact that we simply don't have enough 'natural' sources to provide us with the need fertilizer. Even if we did have enough horse/cow/etc crap to be used, the harvesting method would still likely produce a lot of CO2, not to mention methane. It is similar to the problem with local produce. And no, to those of you thinking it, simply having the cows **** in the field that you're going to use next year for corn doesn't work well enough.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong