Gereneral Gregg

Magyar · 14th August 2009, 07:57 AM

I was watching Gods and Generals this morning - came accross it while channel surfing -
and came into it in the middle.

There was a seen when Gen Gregg is dying and gen Stonewall Jackson comes to visit him at his death bed.

the dialog goes something like this.

Gregg - I wish to appoligize.......
Jackson - put this out of your mind and turn your thoughts to god and the world you go to
Gregg - Gen. You KNOW I am not a believer!
Jackson - well then I'll believe for the both of us.

I am admittedly rather weak on the personal histories of most of the the southern General except the obvious ones of course. But I found it rather ODD to have such a dialog and it's impications put into a movie like this without some basis.

But would/could this be possible?
If not why put it into a movie?

theprestige · 14th August 2009, 10:07 AM

General Jackson was a devoutly religious man. This is a matter of well-established public record, evidenced in his correspondence and in the testimony of the thousands of eyewitnesses who served with him.

The records of the Civil War include numerous official documents--battle reports signed by Jackson himself--in which he attributes his victories to God.

But many soldiers and civilians throughout history have been religious. Why do you find it odd that Jackson was religious?

Big Les · 14th August 2009, 10:12 AM

Who says he does? It's the possible incongruity/anachronistic nature of the scene that's being commented on. I doubt that it's based on real history (as in that dialogue), and I'm not convinced that it's even very plausible a discussion. But hey, artistic licence.

Magyar · 14th August 2009, 10:45 AM

the prestige, perhaps I wrote my comments poorly or you miss understood me.

It is NOT Jackson's religious beliefs I questioned, I know his record. It's Gregg's comment in the movie in this scene to Jackson "General, you know I am not a believing man".

While I don't know of any incident that questions Jackson character, Jackson and Gregg had an ongoing feud and I find it nearly impossible to believe that if Gregg was known to be a "non-believing mand" this would not have come up in/as part of this fued.

I would also think that declairing such an opponion in the south during this time would be nearly, if not equal to declairing that blacks were equal.

So I was just wondering if there was no real basis to such a statement what the purpose of it was to include in the movie. Was the director or author( I am not sure who or what the movie is based on) trying to make a point.

I find it EXCEEDINGLY stupid to put stuff like this into movies. Artistic license is one thing but to claim that a confederate general was a known atheist AND accepted
is just plain stupid and it serves no purpose other than make you look stupid - unless there is some basis in fact to the claim.

I know that when you make a movie based on history you are not making a documentary and you embelish and change some stuff, but there has got to be a limit. Otherwise why not make a civil war movie where the confederates fight a well trained rangers unit armed with M16.

theprestige · 14th August 2009, 02:16 PM

Magyar, my apologies. Thanks for clarifying.

BobG · 21st August 2009, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by Big Les

Who says he does? It's the possible incongruity/anachronistic nature of the scene that's being commented on. I doubt that it's based on real history (as in that dialogue), and I'm not convinced that it's even very plausible a discussion. But hey, artistic licence.

Yes!

All movies take great liberties in order to entertain the audience.

I wouldn't put any stock in the reality of the scene described. It was probably the writers method of getting across the point that Jackson was religious.

14th August 2009, 07:57 AM	#1
Magyar Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: the edge of reason Posts: 1,546	Gereneral Gregg I was watching Gods and Generals this morning - came accross it while channel surfing - and came into it in the middle. There was a seen when Gen Gregg is dying and gen Stonewall Jackson comes to visit him at his death bed. the dialog goes something like this. Gregg - I wish to appoligize....... Jackson - put this out of your mind and turn your thoughts to god and the world you go to Gregg - Gen. You KNOW I am not a believer! Jackson - well then I'll believe for the both of us. I am admittedly rather weak on the personal histories of most of the the southern General except the obvious ones of course. But I found it rather ODD to have such a dialog and it's impications put into a movie like this without some basis. But would/could this be possible? If not why put it into a movie?
	__________________ "There is no heresy or no philosophy which is so abhorrent to the church as a human being." James Joyce Due to recent cutbacks the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.

14th August 2009, 10:07 AM	#2
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,576	General Jackson was a devoutly religious man. This is a matter of well-established public record, evidenced in his correspondence and in the testimony of the thousands of eyewitnesses who served with him. The records of the Civil War include numerous official documents--battle reports signed by Jackson himself--in which he attributes his victories to God. But many soldiers and civilians throughout history have been religious. Why do you find it odd that Jackson was religious?
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,576

14th August 2009, 10:12 AM	#3
Big Les Not so much a medium as a large Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5,004	Who says he does? It's the possible incongruity/anachronistic nature of the scene that's being commented on. I doubt that it's based on real history (as in that dialogue), and I'm not convinced that it's even very plausible a discussion. But hey, artistic licence.
	__________________ "Feeling you’ve done something is not quite the same as the empirical scientific proof." -Stephen Fry The BS Historian

14th August 2009, 10:45 AM	#4
Magyar Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: the edge of reason Posts: 1,546	the prestige, perhaps I wrote my comments poorly or you miss understood me. It is NOT Jackson's religious beliefs I questioned, I know his record. It's Gregg's comment in the movie in this scene to Jackson "General, you know I am not a believing man". While I don't know of any incident that questions Jackson character, Jackson and Gregg had an ongoing feud and I find it nearly impossible to believe that if Gregg was known to be a "non-believing mand" this would not have come up in/as part of this fued. I would also think that declairing such an opponion in the south during this time would be nearly, if not equal to declairing that blacks were equal. So I was just wondering if there was no real basis to such a statement what the purpose of it was to include in the movie. Was the director or author( I am not sure who or what the movie is based on) trying to make a point. I find it EXCEEDINGLY stupid to put stuff like this into movies. Artistic license is one thing but to claim that a confederate general was a known atheist AND accepted is just plain stupid and it serves no purpose other than make you look stupid - unless there is some basis in fact to the claim. I know that when you make a movie based on history you are not making a documentary and you embelish and change some stuff, but there has got to be a limit. Otherwise why not make a civil war movie where the confederates fight a well trained rangers unit armed with M16.
	__________________ "There is no heresy or no philosophy which is so abhorrent to the church as a human being." James Joyce Due to recent cutbacks the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off. Last edited by Magyar; 14th August 2009 at 10:48 AM.

14th August 2009, 02:16 PM	#5
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,576	Magyar, my apologies. Thanks for clarifying.
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,576

21st August 2009, 03:25 AM	#6
BobG Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 382	Originally Posted by Big Les Who says he does? It's the possible incongruity/anachronistic nature of the scene that's being commented on. I doubt that it's based on real history (as in that dialogue), and I'm not convinced that it's even very plausible a discussion. But hey, artistic licence. Yes! All movies take great liberties in order to entertain the audience. I wouldn't put any stock in the reality of the scene described. It was probably the writers method of getting across the point that Jackson was religious.
BobG Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 382