It's over on Health Care.

dudalb · 16th August 2009, 01:13 PM

Obama is giving signs he is willing to abadon the public option in favor of some Insurance Coop plan.
So we will get a waterdoned bill that will probably not solve the problem.
A great day for the Rush Limbaughs of the world.
And the Democrats once again show their basic problem: they don't have the guts to make a tough choice.

Tsukasa Buddha · 16th August 2009, 01:20 PM

I see the problem as the Blue Dogs wanting to be re-elected.

And the public v coop is just one aspect of reform.

boloboffin · 16th August 2009, 02:28 PM

No public option, no Obama second term.

ETA: Unless Palin is the Republican nominee. If Obama doesn't have a public option in the legislation, I doubt somebody like Mitt Romney would let that happen. Mitt would have the perfect opening.

parky76 · 16th August 2009, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Obama is giving signs he is willing to abadon the public option in favor of some Insurance Coop plan.
So we will get a waterdoned bill that will probably not solve the problem.
A great day for the Rush Limbaughs of the world.
And the Democrats once again show their basic problem: they don't have the guts to make a tough choice.

Im sorry...how is a non-profit member owned Co-op...a bad thing???

anyone who cant afford it will have it subsidized by the govt. but the govt. will not control or run the co-op.

as long as most Americans have health insurance, that is all that matters....right???

this is about protecting the American people...right??

this isn't about making the Republicans look stupid..right?

this isn't about installing socialist-like programs...right?

a massive government health insurance plan, is kinda sorta socialist. but i don't care. i don't mind it.
i also don't mind if we go the co-op route. as long as the protections that Obama has proposed still are part of the plan.

David Wong · 16th August 2009, 02:58 PM

When did we decide that the public option was the only part of the plan worth doing?

The idea is to get those tens of millions of uninsured in the pool, and to help the people who are getting left out in the cold by shady insurance practices. The bill still is about preventing them from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions etc, still introduces competition (including non-profit competition funded by public money at start-up) to try to force these prices down.

The public option wasn't even 10% of what he was trying to do here. It was, however, the most expensive and most contentious part.

This is how compromise works.

parky76 · 16th August 2009, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by David Wong

The public option wasn't even 10% of what he was trying to do here. It was, however, the most expensive and most contentious part.

This is how compromise works.

totally. the public option is not what is important. only petty Republican pigs (and Socialists who want the USA to go the way of Britain) would see this as a defeat for Obama

boloboffin · 16th August 2009, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

totally. the public option is not what is important. only petty Republican pigs (and Socialists who want the USA to go the way of Britain) would see this as a defeat for Obama

I don't see the lack of a public option as a defeat for Obama, necessarily. I see 2012 as a defeat for Obama if there's no public option in what happens.

parky76 · 16th August 2009, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by boloboffin

I don't see the lack of a public option as a defeat for Obama, necessarily. I see 2012 as a defeat for Obama if there's no public option in what happens.

honestly, any vote that approves all of Obama's health care reforms, with a co-op instead of a govt. health care option, will be seen as a victory for Obama..for bipartisanship, and for the USA.

but a defeat...for Hannity..Rush..and the GOP demagogue Obama-haters.

Marc39 · 16th August 2009, 03:28 PM

The more Dr. Obama talks to audiences in that fake street dialect in a pathetic attempt to try to connect wit da common man, the more I know he's sinking.

parky76 · 16th August 2009, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Marc39

try to connect wit da common man, .

racism will get you no where.

boloboffin · 16th August 2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

honestly, any vote that approves all of Obama's health care reforms, with a co-op instead of a govt. health care option, will be seen as a victory for Obama..for bipartisanship, and for the USA.

but a defeat...for Hannity..Rush..and the GOP demagogue Obama-haters.

Perhaps in the beginning, but not by me and not by people to whom Obama lied to get elected.

And then the inevitable implementation problems will occur, and the Republicans will harp and harp and harp on them, and public opinion will turn, and in the primary and general, Obama will turn back to us...

...and we won't be there.

All of this is presumed on no public option, the continued stalemate for gay rights, the continued privacy issues, etc., - issues I care most about, plus the Republicans smarting up and not putting someone like Palin forward. Obama can remember his victories in February 2013 back in Chicago if that occurs.

dudalb · 16th August 2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by David Wong

When did we decide that the public option was the only part of the plan worth doing?

The idea is to get those tens of millions of uninsured in the pool, and to help the people who are getting left out in the cold by shady insurance practices. The bill still is about preventing them from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions etc, still introduces competition (including non-profit competition funded by public money at start-up) to try to force these prices down.

The public option wasn't even 10% of what he was trying to do here. It was, however, the most expensive and most contentious part.

This is how compromise works.

That is pretty much my view.
But my fighting so hard for the Public Option, Obama is going to make anything less seem like a defeat.
And I am concerned that tactics like those used at the Town Meetings seemed to have worked. There is a lot about Obamacare I have problems with (like who is going to pay for it..I am very skeptical that it could be paid for by a modest increase in tax rates for the upper income level) but it was not the valid problems that were being discussed at the Town Meetings. It was crap like "Death Boards" and Abortion. That this kind of thing works is not good for the country.

dudalb · 16th August 2009, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by boloboffin

Perhaps in the beginning, but not by me and not by people to whom Obama lied to get elected.

And then the inevitable implementation problems will occur, and the Republicans will harp and harp and harp on them, and public opinion will turn, and in the primary and general, Obama will turn back to us...

...and we won't be there.

All of this is presumed on no public option, the continued stalemate for gay rights, the continued privacy issues, etc., - issues I care most about, plus the Republicans smarting up and not putting someone like Palin forward. Obama can remember his victories in February 2013 back in Chicago if that occurs.

I would not bet money on the GOP wising up by 2012.

And, frankly, you are way,way, overestimatng the number of voters who are as far to the left as you are.
And Obama ran, and was elected as, a centrist,not someone out there on the left. There are a lot more moderate voters out there then Hard Line Lefties.

boloboffin · 16th August 2009, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I would not bet money on the GOP wising up by 2012.

And, frankly, you are way,way, overestimatng the number of voters who are as far to the left as you are.
And Obama ran, and was elected as, a centrist,not someone out there on the left. There are a lot more moderate voters out there then Hard Line Lefties.

Yeah, I'm listening to you on politics, dudalb.

leftysergeant · 16th August 2009, 04:20 PM

That the strangle hold of the HMOs is broken is a victory with either the public option or co-ops. They must, of course, be not-for-profit. That is about 30% of the health-care outlay right there. Co-ops would probably bring it down to 5-10%.

If, after a couple years, it is still working, but not to public liking, there will be time to revisit the idea of a public option. (Just the thought of that might motivate a few people in leadership positions in the co-op to invent some good alternative methods.)

Whichever of these options comes out the Septemember end of the proces is still a slap in the face to the ~~Dirt~~Tea Baggers and corporate dancing monkeys like the fat deaf eunuch who are trying to tell us that the market will fix it. This is the last chance the market will have and they had better make it work and not try to rip us off in the meantime.

Just the act of getting something good around the toads-in-the-roads GOP and Blue Cross Democrats would be good street cred for Obama.

To address Bolobofin's concerns about his indivual concerns that he does not see being addressed in other areas, I would say that it would probably help not to have too many of the flying monkey right wingers angry at one time and creating even more chaos. Do something great for the masses and they will not be as resistant to those measures which address the concerns of specific segments of society.

Marc39 · 16th August 2009, 04:27 PM

The most alarming aspect of the various healthcare plans out there, as assessed by the NY Times recently, is limits placed on the levels of healthcare insurance an individual can purchase. If I want to purchase gold-plated coverage for my family and myself with no limitations on medical procedures, I cannot do so under these plans.

leftysergeant · 16th August 2009, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Marc39

If I want to purchase gold-plated coverage for my family and myself with no limitations on medical procedures, I cannot do so under these plans.

Link, please.

And why do we care?

Pay it out of pocket like the poor have to now.

Pardalis · 16th August 2009, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

the ~~Dirt~~Tea Baggers and corporate dancing monkeys like the fat deaf eunuch
[...]
flying monkey right wingers

Boy you can't help yourself can you?

Your language is so violent that it's no wonder that they hate you.

leftysergeant · 16th August 2009, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

Boy you can't help yourself can you?

Your language is so violent that it's no wonder that they hate you.

There is no profit in respecting the wishes of those who wish to destroy and enslave a culture.

Pardalis · 16th August 2009, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Do something great for the masses and they will not be as resistant to those measures which address the concerns of specific segments of society.

And what's that method called? "Stroke and awe"?

Pardalis · 16th August 2009, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

There is no profit in respecting the wishes of those who wish to destroy and enslave a culture.

Well those people are Americans too, so they're part of your culture, like it or not.

You may like to see yourself as a progressive, but you sound like a little spiteful fascist.

Undesired Walrus · 16th August 2009, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

There is no profit in respecting the wishes of those who wish to destroy and enslave a culture.

That's not really Obama's message is it?

David Wong · 16th August 2009, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by boloboffin

Perhaps in the beginning, but not by me and not by people to whom Obama lied to get elected.

And then the inevitable implementation problems will occur, and the Republicans will harp and harp and harp on them, and public opinion will turn, and in the primary and general, Obama will turn back to us...

...and we won't be there.

All of this is presumed on no public option, the continued stalemate for gay rights, the continued privacy issues, etc., - issues I care most about, plus the Republicans smarting up and not putting someone like Palin forward. Obama can remember his victories in February 2013 back in Chicago if that occurs.

Yes, because all of the fringe leftists like you will vote Republican instead.

Same old, same old. You have to govern to the middle. That's how democracy works.

Marc39 · 16th August 2009, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Link, please.

And why do we care?

Pay it out of pocket like the poor have to now.

I read the article in the hard copy of the Times and don't have a link. The Times was very specific in saying you cannot pay for unlimited healthcare under the plans.

This hits home as a friend of my family recently underwent heart surgery that, all told, cost approx. $1 million for the hospital stay (No exaggeration). He had gold-plated coverage that paid for everything or much of it. He could not do so under these various plans.

leftysergeant · 16th August 2009, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Marc39

This hits home as a friend of my family recently underwent heart surgery that, all told, cost approx. $1 million for the hospital stay (No exaggeration). He had gold-plated coverage that paid for everything or much of it. He could not do so under these various plans.

Prove it.

Marc39 · 16th August 2009, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Prove it.

No.

parky76 · 16th August 2009, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

There is no profit in respecting the wishes of those who wish to destroy and enslave a culture.

and those people are?

parky76 · 16th August 2009, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

That is pretty much my view.
But my fighting so hard for the Public Option, Obama is going to make anything less seem like a defeat. .

i disagree. i think Obama can and will spin this as a victory for bipartisanship and for all Americans.

boloboffin · 16th August 2009, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by David Wong

Yes, because all of the fringe leftists like you will vote Republican instead.

Same old, same old. You have to govern to the middle. That's how democracy works.

Ah, thanks for letting me know you wanted to be on the same list as dudalb with me. Anyone else?

ETA: Go ahead and PM me so we don't derail the thread any further with people attacking me and me not caring. But be nice! A simple "Put me on the list with dudalb" header is sufficient. And wouldn't it be nice if we could ignore people in certain subforums only? Of course that would be the death of this subforum...

parky76 · 16th August 2009, 05:17 PM

Republicans are clearly going nuts over the idea of a co-op alternative to the govt. plan.

this almost ensures a plan will be passed by Congress.

the horror!!!! the horror!!!

Safe-Keeper · 16th August 2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

This hits home as a friend of my family recently underwent heart surgery that, all told, cost approx. $1 million for the hospital stay (No exaggeration). He had gold-plated coverage that paid for everything or much of it. He could not do so under these various plans.

I live in Norway and I've never ever heard of one single person who's had to go through heart surgery without the State eating at least a significant portion of the costs.

shuize · 16th August 2009, 05:23 PM

Universal health care sounds like a great idea. As long as someone else is paying for it.

shuize · 16th August 2009, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Marc39

I read the article in the hard copy of the Times and don't have a link. The Times was very specific in saying you cannot pay for unlimited healthcare under the plans.

This hits home as a friend of my family recently underwent heart surgery that, all told, cost approx. $1 million for the hospital stay (No exaggeration). He had gold-plated coverage that paid for everything or much of it. He could not do so under these various plans.

A similar story in the U.K.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/wo...in&oref=slogin

Marc39 · 16th August 2009, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

I live in Norway and I've never ever heard of one single person who's had to go through heart surgery without the State eating at least a significant portion of the costs.

If the person I'm alluding to did not have the finest healthcare insurance, he would be dead. Between doctors and nurses, a total of 72 people cared for him.

Not so in the Obamanation.

parky76 · 16th August 2009, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Marc39

If the person I'm alluding did not have the finest healthcare insurance, he would be dead. Between doctors and nurses, a total of 72 people cared for him.

Not so in the Obamanation.

lie. lies is all they have.

shuize · 16th August 2009, 05:46 PM

I just finished this article about the NHS:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/we....html?_r=1&hpw

My favorite passage:

Quote:

Told my husband needed a sophisticated blood test from a particular doctor, I telephoned her office, only to be told there was a four-month wait.

“But I’m a private patient,” I said.

“Then we can see you tomorrow,” the secretary said.

boooeee · 16th August 2009, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by David Wong

When did we decide that the public option was the only part of the plan worth doing?

The idea is to get those tens of millions of uninsured in the pool, and to help the people who are getting left out in the cold by shady insurance practices. The bill still is about preventing them from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions etc, still introduces competition (including non-profit competition funded by public money at start-up) to try to force these prices down.

The public option wasn't even 10% of what he was trying to do here. It was, however, the most expensive and most contentious part.

This is how compromise works.

What he said. The public option debate was a sideshow.

It's not "over".

ARubberChickenWithAPulley · 16th August 2009, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by boooeee

What he said. The public option debate was a sideshow.

It's not "over".

And this certainly isn't the first major thing that Obama has compromised on. He made a major concession to the pharmaceutical industry that, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to bother many people.

It is also interesting how the whole debate has been spun from "healthcare reform" to "health insurance" reform.

MarkCorrigan · 16th August 2009, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by shuize

I just finished this article about the NHS:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/we....html?_r=1&hpw

My favorite passage:

Of course, the problem with that is if the blood tests find something that will be a life long disease/illness then the guy will be passed right on back to the NHS. Private healthcare in the UK does not like the big nasty messy problems. It might be efficient for your anemia or sprained ankles, but get a health issue that's serious, complicated and on-going? Bye bye insurance, hello NHS.

leftysergeant · 16th August 2009, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

Well those people are Americans too, so they're part of your culture, like it or not.

So are the KKK.

16th August 2009, 01:13 PM	#1
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 14,444	It's over on Health Care. Obama is giving signs he is willing to abadon the public option in favor of some Insurance Coop plan. So we will get a waterdoned bill that will probably not solve the problem. A great day for the Rush Limbaughs of the world. And the Democrats once again show their basic problem: they don't have the guts to make a tough choice.

16th August 2009, 01:20 PM	#2
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 4,637	I see the problem as the Blue Dogs wanting to be re-elected. And the public v coop is just one aspect of reform.
	__________________ Monk to Zen Master: What happens after death, master? Zen master: I don’t know. Monk: But you are a master! Master: Yes, but I’m not a dead one yet.

16th August 2009, 02:28 PM	#3
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,005	No public option, no Obama second term. ETA: Unless Palin is the Republican nominee. If Obama doesn't have a public option in the legislation, I doubt somebody like Mitt Romney would let that happen. Mitt would have the perfect opening.
	Last edited by boloboffin; 16th August 2009 at 02:29 PM.

16th August 2009, 02:53 PM	#4
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Originally Posted by dudalb Obama is giving signs he is willing to abadon the public option in favor of some Insurance Coop plan. So we will get a waterdoned bill that will probably not solve the problem. A great day for the Rush Limbaughs of the world. And the Democrats once again show their basic problem: they don't have the guts to make a tough choice. Im sorry...how is a non-profit member owned Co-op...a bad thing??? anyone who cant afford it will have it subsidized by the govt. but the govt. will not control or run the co-op. as long as most Americans have health insurance, that is all that matters....right??? this is about protecting the American people...right?? this isn't about making the Republicans look stupid..right? this isn't about installing socialist-like programs...right? a massive government health insurance plan, is kinda sorta socialist. but i don't care. i don't mind it. i also don't mind if we go the co-op route. as long as the protections that Obama has proposed still are part of the plan.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt." Last edited by parky76; 16th August 2009 at 02:54 PM.

16th August 2009, 02:58 PM	#5
David Wong Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,697	When did we decide that the public option was the only part of the plan worth doing? The idea is to get those tens of millions of uninsured in the pool, and to help the people who are getting left out in the cold by shady insurance practices. The bill still is about preventing them from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions etc, still introduces competition (including non-profit competition funded by public money at start-up) to try to force these prices down. The public option wasn't even 10% of what he was trying to do here. It was, however, the most expensive and most contentious part. This is how compromise works.
	__________________ Author, John Dies at the End. Available now in hardcover. Editor, Cracked.com.

16th August 2009, 03:02 PM	#6
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Originally Posted by David Wong The public option wasn't even 10% of what he was trying to do here. It was, however, the most expensive and most contentious part. This is how compromise works. totally. the public option is not what is important. only petty Republican pigs (and Socialists who want the USA to go the way of Britain) would see this as a defeat for Obama
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

16th August 2009, 03:19 PM	#7
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,005	Originally Posted by parky76 totally. the public option is not what is important. only petty Republican pigs (and Socialists who want the USA to go the way of Britain) would see this as a defeat for Obama I don't see the lack of a public option as a defeat for Obama, necessarily. I see 2012 as a defeat for Obama if there's no public option in what happens.

16th August 2009, 03:25 PM	#8
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Originally Posted by boloboffin I don't see the lack of a public option as a defeat for Obama, necessarily. I see 2012 as a defeat for Obama if there's no public option in what happens. honestly, any vote that approves all of Obama's health care reforms, with a co-op instead of a govt. health care option, will be seen as a victory for Obama..for bipartisanship, and for the USA. but a defeat...for Hannity..Rush..and the GOP demagogue Obama-haters.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

16th August 2009, 03:28 PM	#9
Marc39 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,720	The more Dr. Obama talks to audiences in that fake street dialect in a pathetic attempt to try to connect wit da common man, the more I know he's sinking.
Marc39 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,720

16th August 2009, 03:29 PM	#10
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Originally Posted by Marc39 try to connect wit da common man, . racism will get you no where.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

16th August 2009, 03:37 PM	#11
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,005	Originally Posted by parky76 honestly, any vote that approves all of Obama's health care reforms, with a co-op instead of a govt. health care option, will be seen as a victory for Obama..for bipartisanship, and for the USA. but a defeat...for Hannity..Rush..and the GOP demagogue Obama-haters. Perhaps in the beginning, but not by me and not by people to whom Obama lied to get elected. And then the inevitable implementation problems will occur, and the Republicans will harp and harp and harp on them, and public opinion will turn, and in the primary and general, Obama will turn back to us... ...and we won't be there. All of this is presumed on no public option, the continued stalemate for gay rights, the continued privacy issues, etc., - issues I care most about, plus the Republicans smarting up and not putting someone like Palin forward. Obama can remember his victories in February 2013 back in Chicago if that occurs.

16th August 2009, 03:37 PM	#12
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 14,444	Originally Posted by David Wong When did we decide that the public option was the only part of the plan worth doing? The idea is to get those tens of millions of uninsured in the pool, and to help the people who are getting left out in the cold by shady insurance practices. The bill still is about preventing them from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions etc, still introduces competition (including non-profit competition funded by public money at start-up) to try to force these prices down. The public option wasn't even 10% of what he was trying to do here. It was, however, the most expensive and most contentious part. This is how compromise works. That is pretty much my view. But my fighting so hard for the Public Option, Obama is going to make anything less seem like a defeat. And I am concerned that tactics like those used at the Town Meetings seemed to have worked. There is a lot about Obamacare I have problems with (like who is going to pay for it..I am very skeptical that it could be paid for by a modest increase in tax rates for the upper income level) but it was not the valid problems that were being discussed at the Town Meetings. It was crap like "Death Boards" and Abortion. That this kind of thing works is not good for the country.

16th August 2009, 03:42 PM	#13
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 14,444	Originally Posted by boloboffin Perhaps in the beginning, but not by me and not by people to whom Obama lied to get elected. And then the inevitable implementation problems will occur, and the Republicans will harp and harp and harp on them, and public opinion will turn, and in the primary and general, Obama will turn back to us... ...and we won't be there. All of this is presumed on no public option, the continued stalemate for gay rights, the continued privacy issues, etc., - issues I care most about, plus the Republicans smarting up and not putting someone like Palin forward. Obama can remember his victories in February 2013 back in Chicago if that occurs. I would not bet money on the GOP wising up by 2012. And, frankly, you are way,way, overestimatng the number of voters who are as far to the left as you are. And Obama ran, and was elected as, a centrist,not someone out there on the left. There are a lot more moderate voters out there then Hard Line Lefties.

16th August 2009, 03:48 PM	#14
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,005	Originally Posted by dudalb I would not bet money on the GOP wising up by 2012. And, frankly, you are way,way, overestimatng the number of voters who are as far to the left as you are. And Obama ran, and was elected as, a centrist,not someone out there on the left. There are a lot more moderate voters out there then Hard Line Lefties. Yeah, I'm listening to you on politics, dudalb.

16th August 2009, 04:20 PM	#15
leftysergeant Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 6,717	That the strangle hold of the HMOs is broken is a victory with either the public option or co-ops. They must, of course, be not-for-profit. That is about 30% of the health-care outlay right there. Co-ops would probably bring it down to 5-10%. If, after a couple years, it is still working, but not to public liking, there will be time to revisit the idea of a public option. (Just the thought of that might motivate a few people in leadership positions in the co-op to invent some good alternative methods.) Whichever of these options comes out the Septemember end of the proces is still a slap in the face to the ~~Dirt~~Tea Baggers and corporate dancing monkeys like the fat deaf eunuch who are trying to tell us that the market will fix it. This is the last chance the market will have and they had better make it work and not try to rip us off in the meantime. Just the act of getting something good around the toads-in-the-roads GOP and Blue Cross Democrats would be good street cred for Obama. To address Bolobofin's concerns about his indivual concerns that he does not see being addressed in other areas, I would say that it would probably help not to have too many of the flying monkey right wingers angry at one time and creating even more chaos. Do something great for the masses and they will not be as resistant to those measures which address the concerns of specific segments of society.

16th August 2009, 04:27 PM	#16
Marc39 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,720	The most alarming aspect of the various healthcare plans out there, as assessed by the NY Times recently, is limits placed on the levels of healthcare insurance an individual can purchase. If I want to purchase gold-plated coverage for my family and myself with no limitations on medical procedures, I cannot do so under these plans.
Marc39 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,720

16th August 2009, 04:30 PM	#17
leftysergeant Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 6,717	Originally Posted by Marc39 If I want to purchase gold-plated coverage for my family and myself with no limitations on medical procedures, I cannot do so under these plans. Link, please. And why do we care? Pay it out of pocket like the poor have to now.

16th August 2009, 04:30 PM	#18
Pardalis Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 19,185	Originally Posted by leftysergeant the ~~Dirt~~Tea Baggers and corporate dancing monkeys like the fat deaf eunuch [...] flying monkey right wingers Boy you can't help yourself can you? Your language is so violent that it's no wonder that they hate you.
	__________________ "It's much better to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has got it wrong because it doesn't share your point of view." aggle-rithm "In reality, the most astonishingly incredible coincidence imaginable would be the complete absence of all coincidences." John Allen Paulos

16th August 2009, 04:32 PM	#19
leftysergeant Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 6,717	Originally Posted by Pardalis Boy you can't help yourself can you? Your language is so violent that it's no wonder that they hate you. There is no profit in respecting the wishes of those who wish to destroy and enslave a culture.

16th August 2009, 04:34 PM	#20
Pardalis Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 19,185	Originally Posted by leftysergeant Do something great for the masses and they will not be as resistant to those measures which address the concerns of specific segments of society. And what's that method called? "Stroke and awe"?
	__________________ "It's much better to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has got it wrong because it doesn't share your point of view." aggle-rithm "In reality, the most astonishingly incredible coincidence imaginable would be the complete absence of all coincidences." John Allen Paulos

16th August 2009, 04:35 PM	#21
Pardalis Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 19,185	Originally Posted by leftysergeant There is no profit in respecting the wishes of those who wish to destroy and enslave a culture. Well those people are Americans too, so they're part of your culture, like it or not. You may like to see yourself as a progressive, but you sound like a little spiteful fascist.
	__________________ "It's much better to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has got it wrong because it doesn't share your point of view." aggle-rithm "In reality, the most astonishingly incredible coincidence imaginable would be the complete absence of all coincidences." John Allen Paulos

16th August 2009, 04:38 PM	#22
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	Originally Posted by leftysergeant There is no profit in respecting the wishes of those who wish to destroy and enslave a culture. That's not really Obama's message is it?
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

16th August 2009, 04:39 PM	#23
David Wong Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,697	Originally Posted by boloboffin Perhaps in the beginning, but not by me and not by people to whom Obama lied to get elected. And then the inevitable implementation problems will occur, and the Republicans will harp and harp and harp on them, and public opinion will turn, and in the primary and general, Obama will turn back to us... ...and we won't be there. All of this is presumed on no public option, the continued stalemate for gay rights, the continued privacy issues, etc., - issues I care most about, plus the Republicans smarting up and not putting someone like Palin forward. Obama can remember his victories in February 2013 back in Chicago if that occurs. Yes, because all of the fringe leftists like you will vote Republican instead. Same old, same old. You have to govern to the middle. That's how democracy works.
	__________________ Author, John Dies at the End. Available now in hardcover. Editor, Cracked.com.

16th August 2009, 04:41 PM	#24
Marc39 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,720	Originally Posted by leftysergeant Link, please. And why do we care? Pay it out of pocket like the poor have to now. I read the article in the hard copy of the Times and don't have a link. The Times was very specific in saying you cannot pay for unlimited healthcare under the plans. This hits home as a friend of my family recently underwent heart surgery that, all told, cost approx. $1 million for the hospital stay (No exaggeration). He had gold-plated coverage that paid for everything or much of it. He could not do so under these various plans.
Marc39 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,720

16th August 2009, 04:45 PM	#25
leftysergeant Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 6,717	Originally Posted by Marc39 This hits home as a friend of my family recently underwent heart surgery that, all told, cost approx. $1 million for the hospital stay (No exaggeration). He had gold-plated coverage that paid for everything or much of it. He could not do so under these various plans. Prove it.

16th August 2009, 04:46 PM	#26
Marc39 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,720	Originally Posted by leftysergeant Prove it. No.
Marc39 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,720

16th August 2009, 04:56 PM	#27
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Originally Posted by leftysergeant There is no profit in respecting the wishes of those who wish to destroy and enslave a culture. and those people are?
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

16th August 2009, 04:58 PM	#28
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Originally Posted by dudalb That is pretty much my view. But my fighting so hard for the Public Option, Obama is going to make anything less seem like a defeat. . i disagree. i think Obama can and will spin this as a victory for bipartisanship and for all Americans.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

16th August 2009, 05:08 PM	#29
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,005	Originally Posted by David Wong Yes, because all of the fringe leftists like you will vote Republican instead. Same old, same old. You have to govern to the middle. That's how democracy works. Ah, thanks for letting me know you wanted to be on the same list as dudalb with me. Anyone else? ETA: Go ahead and PM me so we don't derail the thread any further with people attacking me and me not caring. But be nice! A simple "Put me on the list with dudalb" header is sufficient. And wouldn't it be nice if we could ignore people in certain subforums only? Of course that would be the death of this subforum...
	Last edited by boloboffin; 16th August 2009 at 05:25 PM.

16th August 2009, 05:17 PM	#30
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Republicans are clearly going nuts over the idea of a co-op alternative to the govt. plan. this almost ensures a plan will be passed by Congress. the horror!!!! the horror!!!
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

16th August 2009, 05:18 PM	#31
Safe-Keeper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 4,373	Quote: This hits home as a friend of my family recently underwent heart surgery that, all told, cost approx. $1 million for the hospital stay (No exaggeration). He had gold-plated coverage that paid for everything or much of it. He could not do so under these various plans. I live in Norway and I've never ever heard of one single person who's had to go through heart surgery without the State eating at least a significant portion of the costs.
	__________________ "Then my war dogs joined the fray. I have to say I'm a bit afraid of them. One of the bitches actually gave birth while she was attacking, and her puppies joined in on the carnage." --the awesomeness that is Boatmurdered

16th August 2009, 05:23 PM	#32
shuize Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2002 Location: Japan Posts: 1,846	Universal health care sounds like a great idea. As long as someone else is paying for it.
	__________________ "It was only the world's most intricate and flawlessly executed plan ever ... ever."

16th August 2009, 05:27 PM	#33
shuize Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2002 Location: Japan Posts: 1,846	Originally Posted by Marc39 I read the article in the hard copy of the Times and don't have a link. The Times was very specific in saying you cannot pay for unlimited healthcare under the plans. This hits home as a friend of my family recently underwent heart surgery that, all told, cost approx. $1 million for the hospital stay (No exaggeration). He had gold-plated coverage that paid for everything or much of it. He could not do so under these various plans. A similar story in the U.K. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/wo...in&oref=slogin
	__________________ "It was only the world's most intricate and flawlessly executed plan ever ... ever."

16th August 2009, 05:28 PM	#34
Marc39 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,720	Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper I live in Norway and I've never ever heard of one single person who's had to go through heart surgery without the State eating at least a significant portion of the costs. If the person I'm alluding to did not have the finest healthcare insurance, he would be dead. Between doctors and nurses, a total of 72 people cared for him. Not so in the Obamanation.
Marc39 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,720	Last edited by Marc39; 16th August 2009 at 05:30 PM.

16th August 2009, 05:29 PM	#35
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Originally Posted by Marc39 If the person I'm alluding did not have the finest healthcare insurance, he would be dead. Between doctors and nurses, a total of 72 people cared for him. Not so in the Obamanation. lie. lies is all they have.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."