Pulling out vs. Condoms - Tracy Quan applies some skeptical thinking.

BenBurch · 16th August 2009, 08:10 PM

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

This is a video by a old friend of mine, Tracy Quan, in which she does a great job of applying critical thinking to media claims.

~enigma~ · 16th August 2009, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

This is a video by a old friend of mine, Tracy Quan, in which she does a great job of applying critical thinking to media claims.

...this is too easy, gotta be a sting operation

technoextreme · 17th August 2009, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

This is a video by a old friend of mine, Tracy Quan, in which she does a great job of applying critical thinking to media claims.

What retard is saying that pulling out is any form of protection?

Aitch · 17th August 2009, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by technoextreme

What retard is saying that pulling out is any form of protection?

I think this bloke might favour it above condoms.

Darth Rotor · 17th August 2009, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by technoextreme

What retard is saying that pulling out is any form of protection?

I understand that in order to fertilize an egg, a certain fluid must be injected into a certain area. If the injector isn't in there when fluid pressure exceeds atmospheric pressure and restrictor tension, how would an injection take place?

(But condom seems a smarter bet, to me.)

technoextreme · 17th August 2009, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

I understand that in order to fertilize an egg, a certain fluid must be injected into a certain area. If the injector isn't in there when fluid pressure exceeds atmospheric pressure and restrictor tension, how would an injection take place?

(But condom seems a smarter bet, to me.)

You fail basic health because you actually inject fluids twice which is the reason why pulling out doesn't work all that well.

I Ratant · 17th August 2009, 09:52 AM

The pre-ejaculation fluid contains some sperm.
And pulling out is an abrupt almost insulting manuver.

technoextreme · 17th August 2009, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

The pre-ejaculation fluid contains some sperm.
And pulling out is an abrupt almost insulting manuver.

Yay!!! I was right and was not making up some disturbing fact.

Darth Rotor · 17th August 2009, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by technoextreme

You fail basic health because you actually inject fluids twice which is the reason why pulling out doesn't work all that well.

Elaborate on that italicized bit, if you please. I recall reading a variety of different articles on that particular topic over the years. Interesting material, and not quite "basic health."

Application is where you put book leraning into practice. Here is a note on a single data point: having used both methods, we still only have exactly as many children as we planned to, which is two.

mazyloron · 17th August 2009, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

I understand that in order to fertilize an egg, a certain fluid must be injected into a certain area. If the injector isn't in there when fluid pressure exceeds atmospheric pressure and restrictor tension, how would an injection take place?

HAWT.

On a more serious note: I'd love to watch that video but, yeah...not even going to click anywhere near it at work. I'll check it tonight.

I Ratant · 17th August 2009, 11:28 AM

I've wondered about the process Mom and Dad used, as we three are spaced 18 months apart.
When snooping around their chest of drawers as a kid, I did locate a condom way back when, but I kinda lean towards the "rhythm method", due to the spacing and their being Catholic, which would make them what others who used the "method" are, parents.

Darth Rotor · 17th August 2009, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

I've wondered about the process Mom and Dad used, as we three are spaced 18 months apart.
When snooping around their chest of drawers as a kid, I did locate a condom way back when, but I kinda lean towards the "rhythm method", due to the spacing and their being Catholic, which would make them what others who used the "method" are, parents.

"Just pulling out" isn't the rhythmn method, if I recall our reading up on that when we were first married. A significant advantage to condoms is that injectors need not be removed from receiving sites at all, which is a Good Thing(TM).

Quote:

The pre-ejaculation fluid contains some sperm.

Yes. And??

I am sure that you are aware that not every bundle of ejaculate and/r pre ejaculate reaches the correct zone and fertilizes an egg successfully. In other words, not pulling out and not wearing a condom doesn't always result in rendezvous (But it's the way to bet!)

DR

BenBurch · 17th August 2009, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by mazyloron

HAWT.

On a more serious note: I'd love to watch that video but, yeah...not even going to click anywhere near it at work. I'll check it tonight.

Other than a frank discussion of sex ed matters, its safe for work.

I Ratant · 17th August 2009, 12:09 PM

Rhythm is another method of conception prevention, which is unreliable if the fertility dates are misjudged.
Any wigglers in the pre-ejaculate fluid have their work cut out for them, but apparently some are up to the task.

mazyloron · 17th August 2009, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Other than a frank discussion of sex ed matters, its safe for work.

Bolded contradicts italics, at least at my work. Clinical or not, if someone hears those terms coming from my cube, I will have some questions to answer. So, we watch at home

Darth Rotor · 17th August 2009, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

Any wigglers in the pre-ejaculate fluid have their work cut out for them, but apparently some are up to the task.

Good point.

Zeuzzz · 17th August 2009, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by technoextreme

What retard is saying that pulling out is any form of protection?

Better than not pulling out at all.

... It is a form of protection .. its just a really crap one.

bokonon · 17th August 2009, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by technoextreme

What retard is saying that pulling out is any form of protection?

I do.

I also think any WOMAN who regularly depends on it is asking for trouble.

As a man, however, I've enjoyed decades of sex with that as MY only protection, and I've never fathered any unplanned children.

UncaYimmy · 18th August 2009, 02:07 AM

I am reporting this as a pull-out thread, which, as I understand it, is against the membership agreement!

Subduction Zone · 18th August 2009, 02:26 AM

The "pull out method" is actually another sin in the bible. Technically it is "Onanism" . Now many people think that onanism is another term for masturbation, but it isn't. Onan's sin for which he was supposedly struck dead by god was to pull out and spill his "seed" on the ground. So some crazy Christian group is advocating one "sin" over another

ImaginalDisc · 18th August 2009, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by bokonon

I do.

I also think any WOMAN who regularly depends on it is asking for trouble.

As a man, however, I've enjoyed decades of sex with that as MY only protection, and I've never fathered any unplanned children.

I'm gonna stiffle my initial response which was not kind.

May I instead ask how old you are? People educated in my generation had it hammered into our heads that pulling out rather than using a condom affords no protection against sexually transmitted diseases, which is actually supported by medical evidence.

Ivor the Engineer · 18th August 2009, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

<snip>

Any wigglers in the pre-ejaculate fluid have their work cut out for them, but apparently some are up to the task.

I wonder if children created with such sperm are fitter in some way than those created with sperm given a thrust in the right direction?

ImaginalDisc · 18th August 2009, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer

I wonder if children created with such sperm are fitter in some way than those created with sperm given a thrust in the right direction?

Trying for a bishop, eh?

zooterkin · 18th August 2009, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by mazyloron

Bolded contradicts italics, at least at my work. Clinical or not, if someone hears those terms coming from my cube, I will have some questions to answer. So, we watch at home

Well, anyone who uses their PC speakers rather than headphones in an office environment, regardless of what they are listening to, deserves what they get.

bokonon · 18th August 2009, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

I'm gonna stiffle my initial response which was not kind.

May I instead ask how old you are? People educated in my generation had it hammered into our heads that pulling out rather than using a condom affords no protection against sexually transmitted diseases, which is actually supported by medical evidence.

I don't claim that it's any kind of protection against STDs, any more than a diaphragm or birth control pills or a vascectomy or "sex without intercourse" is protection against STDs. Obviously, it provides no protection whatsoever against STDs.

I'm saying it can be an effective method of birth control, for a man. I wouldn't advise a woman who doesn't want to risk pregnancy to depend on her partner's promise that he'll "protect" her in this fashion.

I also wouldn't advise a man who doesn't want to risk his partner's pregnancy to depend on his partner's promise that she never misses a pill.

Obviously, if you're having casual sex with people you don't know and may never see again, the risk of STDs is a more compelling concern than the risk of pregnancy, and condoms are good advice.

If you're in a monogamous relationship with a partner you trust is also monogamous, and have satisfied yourself that STDs are not a concern, I think there's room for some flexibility regarding methods of birth control.

Professor Yaffle · 18th August 2009, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

I've wondered about the process Mom and Dad used, as we three are spaced 18 months apart.
When snooping around their chest of drawers as a kid, I did locate a condom way back when, but I kinda lean towards the "rhythm method", due to the spacing and their being Catholic, which would make them what others who used the "method" are, parents.

18 months-ish is the usual spacing you would expect if no particular method of contraception was used, and the children were breastfed. Breastfeeding delays the return of the woman's fertility for some months.

ImaginalDisc · 18th August 2009, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by bokonon

I don't claim that it's any kind of protection against STDs, any more than a diaphragm or birth control pills or a vascectomy or "sex without intercourse" is protection against STDs. Obviously, it provides no protection whatsoever against STDs.

I'm saying it can be an effective method of birth control, for a man. I wouldn't advise a woman who doesn't want to risk pregnancy to depend on her partner's promise that he'll "protect" her in this fashion.

I also wouldn't advise a man who doesn't want to risk his partner's pregnancy to depend on his partner's promise that she never misses a pill.

Obviously, if you're having casual sex with people you don't know and may never see again, the risk of STDs is a more compelling concern than the risk of pregnancy, and condoms are good advice.

If you're in a monogamous relationship with a partner you trust is also monogamous, and have satisfied yourself that STDs are not a concern, I think there's room for some flexibility regarding methods of birth control.

Withdrawal is a method of birth control favored, statistically, by parents.

Quote:

While 85% of heterosexual partners who use chance are likely to become pregnant in a year, only19% of partners who use withdrawal are. Withdrawal does not protect against sexually transmitted infections (STIs), including HIV/AIDS.

Source.

You'd have to try really hard to come up with a less responsible method of birth control than withdrawal.

Herzblut · 18th August 2009, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by bokonon

As a man, however, I've enjoyed decades of sex with that as MY only protection, and I've never fathered any unplanned children.

... you admit to.

I actually made my long-term girlfriend pregnant when relying completely on condoms, which was a bad idea in the first place. Looking into this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...mparison_table

comparison table, we see that condom failure rates are around 2-15% while pull-out failures are 4-27% (per year). Both of which are bad.

ImaginalDisc · 18th August 2009, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Herzblut

... you admit to.

I actually made my long-term girlfriend pregnant when relying completely on condoms, which was a bad idea in the first place. Looking into this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...mparison_table

comparison table, we see that condom failure rates are around 2-15% while pull-out failures are 4-27% (per year). Both of which are bad.

It's important to put that failure rate in its correct context. A 2 to 15% failure rate does not mean that 2-15% of the time a condom is use it results in a pregnancy. These are usually measured for sexually active couples using X method of birth control for a year.

Herzblut · 18th August 2009, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

It's important to put that failure rate in its correct context. A 2 to 15% failure rate does not mean that 2-15% of the time a condom is use it results in a pregnancy. These are usually measured for sexually active couples using X method of birth control for a year.

Right. My "(per year)" was supposed to indicate that. The "per-incident" failure rate is of course much lower. For both methods.

ImaginalDisc · 18th August 2009, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Herzblut

Right. My "(per year)" was supposed to indicate that. The "per-incident" failure rate is of course much lower. For both methods.

Yeah. This is why using two methods is a good idea. Condoms for him and birth control pills for her.

Belt and suspenders, people.

Personally, if there were an affordable male birth control pill I'd be in line to get it.

bokonon · 18th August 2009, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

Withdrawal is a method of birth control favored, statistically, by parents.

We are parents. Our children were born 5 years apart, so we won't be paying for them to be in college at the same time.

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

You'd have to try really hard to come up with a less responsible method of birth control than withdrawal.

It has worked for us. Sometimes I've worn a condom, when I wanted to finish inside, but most of the time it's been simple withdrawal. My wife has never taken birth control pills.

Maybe it only works for responsible guys.

Herzblut · 18th August 2009, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by bokonon

Maybe it only works for responsible guys.

Well, maybe. The "perfect-use" failure rate for a couple is only 4% per year, leaving a 96% chance of not getting a pregnancy in one year.

Just that "perfect-use" is hardly achievable, I believe.

bokonon · 18th August 2009, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Herzblut

Well, maybe. The "perfect-use" failure rate for a couple is only 4% per year, leaving a 96% chance of not getting a pregnancy in one year.

Just that "perfect-use" is hardly achievable, I believe.

Yeah, I saw those stats you posted. I guess if you absolutely positively don't want children, and wouldn't consider abortion or adoption if a pregnancy did occur, you should probably take other precautions. If you're just trying to avoid becoming the Dugger family, maybe you can live with that failure rate.

Herzblut · 18th August 2009, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by bokonon

Yeah, I saw those stats you posted. I guess if you absolutely positively don't want children, and wouldn't consider abortion or adoption if a pregnancy did occur, you should probably take other precautions.

Yeah. Where, again, I discourage everybody from relying just on condoms!

It's not very much better than practicing coitus interruptus, obviously. An 85% "typical-use" efficiency is pretty poor, I say.

And worldwide, condoms are not readily available neither. Avoiding vaginal intercourse (anal, oral...) are some efficient options then.

Starthinker · 18th August 2009, 09:42 AM

But why would you have sex if you weren't trying to procreate? Sex without procreation is meaningless.

I Ratant · 18th August 2009, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer

I wonder if children created with such sperm are fitter in some way than those created with sperm given a thrust in the right direction?

.
That is something that cries out for research.
I'll volunteer the fluid.

I Ratant · 18th August 2009, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Zeuzzz

Better than not pulling out at all.

... It is a form of protection .. its just a really crap one.

.
That's what I thought the only time I tried it.
Just at -the- moment when you and her should be "cleaving", you have to push away.
Vile!

I Ratant · 18th August 2009, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Subduction Zone

The "pull out method" is actually another sin in the bible. Technically it is "Onanism" . Now many people think that onanism is another term for masturbation, but it isn't. Onan's sin for which he was supposedly struck dead by god was to pull out and spill his "seed" on the ground. So some crazy Christian group is advocating one "sin" over another

.
And for not boinking his dead brother's wife into motherhood.
That's pretty common also, yet there's no world-wide smiting going on.

I Ratant · 18th August 2009, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by starthinker

but why would you have sex if you weren't trying to procreate? Sex without procreation is meaningless.

.
lol!

17th August 2009, 07:42 AM	#4
Aitch Apprentice Crud Puppy Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,442	Originally Posted by technoextreme What retard is saying that pulling out is any form of protection? I think this bloke might favour it above condoms.
	__________________ There's less to this than meets the eye!

17th August 2009, 09:39 AM	#5
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,802	Originally Posted by technoextreme What retard is saying that pulling out is any form of protection? I understand that in order to fertilize an egg, a certain fluid must be injected into a certain area. If the injector isn't in there when fluid pressure exceeds atmospheric pressure and restrictor tension, how would an injection take place? (But condom seems a smarter bet, to me.)
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon

17th August 2009, 09:52 AM	#6
technoextreme Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,886	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor I understand that in order to fertilize an egg, a certain fluid must be injected into a certain area. If the injector isn't in there when fluid pressure exceeds atmospheric pressure and restrictor tension, how would an injection take place? (But condom seems a smarter bet, to me.) You fail basic health because you actually inject fluids twice which is the reason why pulling out doesn't work all that well.
	__________________ It's amazing how many of these "paranormal" icons seem to merge together. There always seem to be theories about how they link together in some way. I'm sure someone has a very good explanation as to how Bigfoot killed JFK to help cover Roswell.-Mark Mekes This isn't rocket surgery.-Bill Nye Last edited by technoextreme; 17th August 2009 at 09:54 AM.

17th August 2009, 09:52 AM	#7
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593	The pre-ejaculation fluid contains some sperm. And pulling out is an abrupt almost insulting manuver.
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593

17th August 2009, 09:55 AM	#8
technoextreme Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,886	Originally Posted by I Ratant The pre-ejaculation fluid contains some sperm. And pulling out is an abrupt almost insulting manuver. Yay!!! I was right and was not making up some disturbing fact.
	__________________ It's amazing how many of these "paranormal" icons seem to merge together. There always seem to be theories about how they link together in some way. I'm sure someone has a very good explanation as to how Bigfoot killed JFK to help cover Roswell.-Mark Mekes This isn't rocket surgery.-Bill Nye

17th August 2009, 11:13 AM	#9
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,802	Originally Posted by technoextreme You fail basic health because you actually inject fluids twice which is the reason why pulling out doesn't work all that well. Elaborate on that italicized bit, if you please. I recall reading a variety of different articles on that particular topic over the years. Interesting material, and not quite "basic health." Application is where you put book leraning into practice. Here is a note on a single data point: having used both methods, we still only have exactly as many children as we planned to, which is two.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon Last edited by Darth Rotor; 17th August 2009 at 11:15 AM.

17th August 2009, 11:25 AM	#10
mazyloron Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Merryland Posts: 345	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor I understand that in order to fertilize an egg, a certain fluid must be injected into a certain area. If the injector isn't in there when fluid pressure exceeds atmospheric pressure and restrictor tension, how would an injection take place? HAWT. On a more serious note: I'd love to watch that video but, yeah...not even going to click anywhere near it at work. I'll check it tonight.
	__________________ -The plural of anecdote is not "data". -Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. -If you don't think that logic is a good method for determining what to believe, make an attempt to convince me of that without using logic.

17th August 2009, 11:28 AM	#11
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593	I've wondered about the process Mom and Dad used, as we three are spaced 18 months apart. When snooping around their chest of drawers as a kid, I did locate a condom way back when, but I kinda lean towards the "rhythm method", due to the spacing and their being Catholic, which would make them what others who used the "method" are, parents.
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593

17th August 2009, 11:43 AM	#12
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,802	Originally Posted by I Ratant I've wondered about the process Mom and Dad used, as we three are spaced 18 months apart. When snooping around their chest of drawers as a kid, I did locate a condom way back when, but I kinda lean towards the "rhythm method", due to the spacing and their being Catholic, which would make them what others who used the "method" are, parents. "Just pulling out" isn't the rhythmn method, if I recall our reading up on that when we were first married. A significant advantage to condoms is that injectors need not be removed from receiving sites at all, which is a Good Thing(TM). Quote: The pre-ejaculation fluid contains some sperm. Yes. And?? I am sure that you are aware that not every bundle of ejaculate and/r pre ejaculate reaches the correct zone and fertilizes an egg successfully. In other words, not pulling out and not wearing a condom doesn't always result in rendezvous (But it's the way to bet!) DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon Last edited by Darth Rotor; 17th August 2009 at 11:46 AM.

17th August 2009, 12:06 PM	#13
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 13,785	Originally Posted by mazyloron HAWT. On a more serious note: I'd love to watch that video but, yeah...not even going to click anywhere near it at work. I'll check it tonight. Other than a frank discussion of sex ed matters, its safe for work.
	__________________ A Liberal Dose of Talk Dog is my co-pilot. GENERATION 7: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

17th August 2009, 12:09 PM	#14
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593	Rhythm is another method of conception prevention, which is unreliable if the fertility dates are misjudged. Any wigglers in the pre-ejaculate fluid have their work cut out for them, but apparently some are up to the task.
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593

17th August 2009, 12:40 PM	#15
mazyloron Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Merryland Posts: 345	Originally Posted by BenBurch Other than a frank discussion of sex ed matters, its safe for work. Bolded contradicts italics, at least at my work. Clinical or not, if someone hears those terms coming from my cube, I will have some questions to answer. So, we watch at home
	__________________ -The plural of anecdote is not "data". -Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. -If you don't think that logic is a good method for determining what to believe, make an attempt to convince me of that without using logic.

17th August 2009, 01:20 PM	#16
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,802	Originally Posted by I Ratant Any wigglers in the pre-ejaculate fluid have their work cut out for them, but apparently some are up to the task. Good point.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon

17th August 2009, 01:26 PM	#17
Zeuzzz Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,146	Originally Posted by technoextreme What retard is saying that pulling out is any form of protection? Better than not pulling out at all. ... It is a form of protection .. its just a really crap one.
Zeuzzz Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,146

17th August 2009, 05:30 PM	#18
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224	Originally Posted by technoextreme What retard is saying that pulling out is any form of protection? I do. I also think any WOMAN who regularly depends on it is asking for trouble. As a man, however, I've enjoyed decades of sex with that as MY only protection, and I've never fathered any unplanned children.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224	__________________ Laugh while you can, monkey boy.

18th August 2009, 02:07 AM	#19
UncaYimmy Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,573	I am reporting this as a pull-out thread, which, as I understand it, is against the membership agreement!

18th August 2009, 02:26 AM	#20
Subduction Zone Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 494	The "pull out method" is actually another sin in the bible. Technically it is "Onanism" . Now many people think that onanism is another term for masturbation, but it isn't. Onan's sin for which he was supposedly struck dead by god was to pull out and spill his "seed" on the ground. So some crazy Christian group is advocating one "sin" over another

18th August 2009, 02:36 AM	#21
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,049	Originally Posted by bokonon I do. I also think any WOMAN who regularly depends on it is asking for trouble. As a man, however, I've enjoyed decades of sex with that as MY only protection, and I've never fathered any unplanned children. I'm gonna stiffle my initial response which was not kind. May I instead ask how old you are? People educated in my generation had it hammered into our heads that pulling out rather than using a condom affords no protection against sexually transmitted diseases, which is actually supported by medical evidence.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

18th August 2009, 02:52 AM	#22
Ivor the Engineer Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South Britain, near the middle Posts: 6,131	Originally Posted by I Ratant <snip> Any wigglers in the pre-ejaculate fluid have their work cut out for them, but apparently some are up to the task. I wonder if children created with such sperm are fitter in some way than those created with sperm given a thrust in the right direction?
	__________________ "Nothing is impossible for an engineer." - Isambard Kingdom Brunel

18th August 2009, 02:57 AM	#23
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,049	Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer I wonder if children created with such sperm are fitter in some way than those created with sperm given a thrust in the right direction? Trying for a bishop, eh?
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

18th August 2009, 03:05 AM	#24
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 7,022	Originally Posted by mazyloron Bolded contradicts italics, at least at my work. Clinical or not, if someone hears those terms coming from my cube, I will have some questions to answer. So, we watch at home Well, anyone who uses their PC speakers rather than headphones in an office environment, regardless of what they are listening to, deserves what they get.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell I'd eat the arse out of a dead mole if it offered a fighting chance.Terry Pratchett The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.Thomas Jefferson

18th August 2009, 06:49 AM	#25
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc I'm gonna stiffle my initial response which was not kind. May I instead ask how old you are? People educated in my generation had it hammered into our heads that pulling out rather than using a condom affords no protection against sexually transmitted diseases, which is actually supported by medical evidence. I don't claim that it's any kind of protection against STDs, any more than a diaphragm or birth control pills or a vascectomy or "sex without intercourse" is protection against STDs. Obviously, it provides no protection whatsoever against STDs. I'm saying it can be an effective method of birth control, for a man. I wouldn't advise a woman who doesn't want to risk pregnancy to depend on her partner's promise that he'll "protect" her in this fashion. I also wouldn't advise a man who doesn't want to risk his partner's pregnancy to depend on his partner's promise that she never misses a pill. Obviously, if you're having casual sex with people you don't know and may never see again, the risk of STDs is a more compelling concern than the risk of pregnancy, and condoms are good advice. If you're in a monogamous relationship with a partner you trust is also monogamous, and have satisfied yourself that STDs are not a concern, I think there's room for some flexibility regarding methods of birth control.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224	__________________ Laugh while you can, monkey boy. Last edited by bokonon; 18th August 2009 at 07:01 AM.

18th August 2009, 06:59 AM	#26
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 7,132	Originally Posted by I Ratant I've wondered about the process Mom and Dad used, as we three are spaced 18 months apart. When snooping around their chest of drawers as a kid, I did locate a condom way back when, but I kinda lean towards the "rhythm method", due to the spacing and their being Catholic, which would make them what others who used the "method" are, parents. 18 months-ish is the usual spacing you would expect if no particular method of contraception was used, and the children were breastfed. Breastfeeding delays the return of the woman's fertility for some months.
	__________________ I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that. Last edited by Professor Yaffle; 18th August 2009 at 07:01 AM.

18th August 2009, 07:16 AM	#27
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,049	Originally Posted by bokonon I don't claim that it's any kind of protection against STDs, any more than a diaphragm or birth control pills or a vascectomy or "sex without intercourse" is protection against STDs. Obviously, it provides no protection whatsoever against STDs. I'm saying it can be an effective method of birth control, for a man. I wouldn't advise a woman who doesn't want to risk pregnancy to depend on her partner's promise that he'll "protect" her in this fashion. I also wouldn't advise a man who doesn't want to risk his partner's pregnancy to depend on his partner's promise that she never misses a pill. Obviously, if you're having casual sex with people you don't know and may never see again, the risk of STDs is a more compelling concern than the risk of pregnancy, and condoms are good advice. If you're in a monogamous relationship with a partner you trust is also monogamous, and have satisfied yourself that STDs are not a concern, I think there's room for some flexibility regarding methods of birth control. Withdrawal is a method of birth control favored, statistically, by parents. Quote: While 85% of heterosexual partners who use chance are likely to become pregnant in a year, only19% of partners who use withdrawal are. Withdrawal does not protect against sexually transmitted infections (STIs), including HIV/AIDS. Source. You'd have to try really hard to come up with a less responsible method of birth control than withdrawal.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

18th August 2009, 07:18 AM	#28
Herzblut Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Deutschland Posts: 2,210	Originally Posted by bokonon As a man, however, I've enjoyed decades of sex with that as MY only protection, and I've never fathered any unplanned children. ... you admit to. I actually made my long-term girlfriend pregnant when relying completely on condoms, which was a bad idea in the first place. Looking into this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...mparison_table comparison table, we see that condom failure rates are around 2-15% while pull-out failures are 4-27% (per year). Both of which are bad.
	__________________ Our knowledge has made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. - Charles Chaplin, 1940

18th August 2009, 07:20 AM	#29
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,049	Originally Posted by Herzblut ... you admit to. I actually made my long-term girlfriend pregnant when relying completely on condoms, which was a bad idea in the first place. Looking into this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...mparison_table comparison table, we see that condom failure rates are around 2-15% while pull-out failures are 4-27% (per year). Both of which are bad. It's important to put that failure rate in its correct context. A 2 to 15% failure rate does not mean that 2-15% of the time a condom is use it results in a pregnancy. These are usually measured for sexually active couples using X method of birth control for a year.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

18th August 2009, 07:27 AM	#30
Herzblut Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Deutschland Posts: 2,210	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc It's important to put that failure rate in its correct context. A 2 to 15% failure rate does not mean that 2-15% of the time a condom is use it results in a pregnancy. These are usually measured for sexually active couples using X method of birth control for a year. Right. My "(per year)" was supposed to indicate that. The "per-incident" failure rate is of course much lower. For both methods.
	__________________ Our knowledge has made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. - Charles Chaplin, 1940

18th August 2009, 07:31 AM	#31
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,049	Originally Posted by Herzblut Right. My "(per year)" was supposed to indicate that. The "per-incident" failure rate is of course much lower. For both methods. Yeah. This is why using two methods is a good idea. Condoms for him and birth control pills for her. Belt and suspenders, people. Personally, if there were an affordable male birth control pill I'd be in line to get it.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

18th August 2009, 07:38 AM	#32
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc Withdrawal is a method of birth control favored, statistically, by parents. We are parents. Our children were born 5 years apart, so we won't be paying for them to be in college at the same time. Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc You'd have to try really hard to come up with a less responsible method of birth control than withdrawal. It has worked for us. Sometimes I've worn a condom, when I wanted to finish inside, but most of the time it's been simple withdrawal. My wife has never taken birth control pills. Maybe it only works for responsible guys.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224	__________________ Laugh while you can, monkey boy.

18th August 2009, 07:51 AM	#33
Herzblut Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Deutschland Posts: 2,210	Originally Posted by bokonon Maybe it only works for responsible guys. Well, maybe. The "perfect-use" failure rate for a couple is only 4% per year, leaving a 96% chance of not getting a pregnancy in one year. Just that "perfect-use" is hardly achievable, I believe.
	__________________ Our knowledge has made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. - Charles Chaplin, 1940 Last edited by Herzblut; 18th August 2009 at 07:58 AM.

18th August 2009, 08:14 AM	#34
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224	Originally Posted by Herzblut Well, maybe. The "perfect-use" failure rate for a couple is only 4% per year, leaving a 96% chance of not getting a pregnancy in one year. Just that "perfect-use" is hardly achievable, I believe. Yeah, I saw those stats you posted. I guess if you absolutely positively don't want children, and wouldn't consider abortion or adoption if a pregnancy did occur, you should probably take other precautions. If you're just trying to avoid becoming the Dugger family, maybe you can live with that failure rate.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224	__________________ Laugh while you can, monkey boy.

18th August 2009, 08:39 AM	#35
Herzblut Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Deutschland Posts: 2,210	Originally Posted by bokonon Yeah, I saw those stats you posted. I guess if you absolutely positively don't want children, and wouldn't consider abortion or adoption if a pregnancy did occur, you should probably take other precautions. Yeah. Where, again, I discourage everybody from relying just on condoms! It's not very much better than practicing coitus interruptus, obviously. An 85% "typical-use" efficiency is pretty poor, I say. And worldwide, condoms are not readily available neither. Avoiding vaginal intercourse (anal, oral...) are some efficient options then.
	__________________ Our knowledge has made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. - Charles Chaplin, 1940 Last edited by Herzblut; 18th August 2009 at 08:47 AM.

18th August 2009, 09:42 AM	#36
Starthinker Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Iowa Posts: 3,834	But why would you have sex if you weren't trying to procreate? Sex without procreation is meaningless.
	__________________ Naked People Running on Treadmills \|¦¦\|¦ \|¦\|\|\|\|¦\|\|\|¦\|\|¦¦\|¦\|\|\|\|\|\|\|¦\|¦¦¦¦\|¦¦¦¦\|\|¦\|¦\|¦¦\|¦ \|¦¦\|¦ • Does the blue line only run on Saturday? He who doubts victory has already lost the battle.

18th August 2009, 10:14 AM	#37
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593	Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer I wonder if children created with such sperm are fitter in some way than those created with sperm given a thrust in the right direction? . That is something that cries out for research. I'll volunteer the fluid.
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593

18th August 2009, 10:15 AM	#38
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593	Originally Posted by Zeuzzz Better than not pulling out at all. ... It is a form of protection .. its just a really crap one. . That's what I thought the only time I tried it. Just at -the- moment when you and her should be "cleaving", you have to push away. Vile!
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,593