Another poll about: how certain are you?

Stereolab · 13th December 2003, 04:46 PM

Let's say you are offered one million dollars in cash, immediately, no questions asked.

The catch is that, if there is any sort of afterlife at all, your soul burns in hell for eternity.

Do you take the money?

Yahweh · 13th December 2003, 05:08 PM

My answer would be:

Thanks for the cash, I'll donate some JREF, a little into the Yahweh Sportscar Financial Support Fund, then some into evolutionary biology research, some cash into a college educashun, and other things I might be able to think of...

Maybe I'll buy a clown...

TruthSeeker · 13th December 2003, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh
My answer would be:

Thanks for the cash, I'll donate some JREF, a little into the Yahweh Sportscar Financial Support Fund, then some into evolutionary biology research, some cash into a college educashun, and other things I might be able to think of...

Maybe I'll buy a clown...

Rent the clown. That way you can return him once you get bored. Yes, you'll get bored.

toddjh · 13th December 2003, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stereolab
Let's say you are offered one million dollars in cash, immediately, no questions asked.

The catch is that, if there is any sort of afterlife at all, your soul burns in hell for eternity.

Do you take the money?

A simple risk analysis is enough for this one. The payoff is finite (one million dollars), but the potential loss is infinite. Thus, unless there is zero possibility of an afterlife, or you're 100% certain you'd wind up in hell anyway, you're better off skipping it in the average case. That kind of certainty isn't rational. I'd pass.

Jeremy

Lord Muck oGentry · 13th December 2003, 05:15 PM

I take evidence.Believers can't afford me.

Regards.

Muck.

Chanileslie · 13th December 2003, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stereolab
Let's say you are offered one million dollars in cash, immediately, no questions asked.

The catch is that, if there is any sort of afterlife at all, your soul burns in hell for eternity.

Do you take the money?

I answered, 'take the money and hope that I am right,' although that isn't my true answer. My true answer is: 'take the money.'

c4ts · 13th December 2003, 08:35 PM

I'd take that money and spend it on indulgences, then lie back and see what happens.

BroodingSkill · 13th December 2003, 08:46 PM

Cash Please!

T'ai Chi · 13th December 2003, 09:16 PM

I'd take the money as lack of evidence supports saying there is probably no soul, afterlife, hell, etc.

However, I'd also do a lot of good things with that much money regardless.

Ratman_tf · 14th December 2003, 02:00 AM

Sounds like Pascal's Wager to me.

I'd shoot everyone involved with offering me the million without warning. I hate Pascal's Wager.

fishbob · 14th December 2003, 02:43 AM

I also answered, 'take the money and hope that I am right,' because it was closer to my real answer. Are you nuts, pass up a million bucks why? An unverifiable rumor? Mythology?

By the way, make it $10 million while yer at it.

Craig · 14th December 2003, 02:48 AM

Well, damn, I see that I'm wearing more than two types of cloth. That's Hell for me, I'm afraid...might as well get paid for it...

Dancing David · 14th December 2003, 07:48 AM

Take the money, no hope.

I already made the decision to burn in hell rather than bend my knee to that god they wind up on sunday.

If I am judged on my works it won't matter!

The money is probably fake, just like the afterlife.

espritch · 14th December 2003, 09:24 AM

Weren't indulgences the diametric opposite of this: give the Catholic Church generous donations and if there is an afterlife, you get to go to heaven?

P.S. I voted "take the money". Whether there's an after life or not, it's a safe bet that the person offering the deal will have absolutely no influence over whether or not I go to heaven or hell.

billydkid · 14th December 2003, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toddjh

A simple risk analysis is enough for this one. The payoff is finite (one million dollars), but the potential loss is infinite. Thus, unless there is zero possibility of an afterlife, or you're 100% certain you'd wind up in hell anyway, you're better off skipping it in the average case. That kind of certainty isn't rational. I'd pass.

Jeremy

The Pascal's wager thing. Look, it would all depend on the definition of terms. Who's hell are we refering to? The Christian/Jewish hell? Muslim hell? Some other hypothetical hell? Is this a particular hell or just a general notion that you suffer in some kind of hell or other if there happens to be one?

jimmygun · 14th December 2003, 01:12 PM

I'd do it for free fries at MacDonalds!

sorgoth · 14th December 2003, 01:22 PM

I would take the money.

I would accept for anything over 10$.

Schizobunny · 14th December 2003, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stereolab
Let's say you are offered one million dollars in cash, immediately, no questions asked.

The catch is that, if there is any sort of afterlife at all, your soul burns in hell for eternity.

Do you take the money?

The question is if there is a hell and you still have money left when you die can you take the money with you?

Matabiri · 15th December 2003, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stereolab
Let's say you are offered one million dollars in cash, immediately, no questions asked.

The catch is that, if there is any sort of afterlife at all, your soul burns in hell for eternity.

Do you take the money?

Seeing as by doubting the existence of an afterlife, I'm already damned to Hell anyway, I might as well live it up while I'm at it.

Isn't there a Simpsons episode where Homer sells his soul to the devil (Ned) for a doughnut, but gets out of it because he's already given it to Marge? How's that for a safe bet?

Mr Clingford · 15th December 2003, 04:07 AM

Why would taking 1 Million dollars cash mean that you would burn eternally in hell?

Lothian · 15th December 2003, 04:26 AM

I would take the money. Even if it was a sure bet £1,000,000 now and you soul roasting in hell or nothing now and your soul residing in Heaven, I would take the money.

The things I enjoy in life have nothing to do with my soul. To be honest I don’t even know what my soul is. Can my soul drink, play sport, see things, physically feel? What pain would it be in if it went to hell ? Would I know or be aware ? Once my soul leaves my body where is my brain ? Left behind with the body ?

For a truer interpretation of Pascal’s wager rather than receive £1,000,000 you pay £1,000,000 now but might save your soul.

P.S. Soul for sale. No reasonable offer refused.

Samus · 15th December 2003, 05:25 AM

Would this money be taxed?

toddjh · 15th December 2003, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by billydkid
The Pascal's wager thing. Look, it would all depend on the definition of terms. Who's hell are we refering to? The Christian/Jewish hell? Muslim hell? Some other hypothetical hell? Is this a particular hell or just a general notion that you suffer in some kind of hell or other if there happens to be one?

It's not the same as Pascal's Wager. Pascal's Wager just assumes there is one single afterlife to be concerned about. Its downfall is that the wager itself gives no clue which god you're supposed to worship.

This situation, on the other hand, states that if there is any afterlife, you're going to burn in some kind of hell. It covers all possible religions. If it were only talking about the Judeo-Christian afterlife, I'd be more inclined to take the money. But can you honestly say you're 100% sure there is no possibility of an afterlife of any kind? I can't. I can think of several somewhat plausible possibilities for an "afterlife" without even going into the realm of the supernatural.

Jeremy

bjornart · 15th December 2003, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toddjh

It's not the same as Pascal's Wager. Pascal's Wager just assumes there is one single afterlife to be concerned about. Its downfall is that the wager itself gives no clue which god you're supposed to worship.

This situation, on the other hand, states that if there is any afterlife, you're going to burn in some kind of hell. It covers all possible religions. If it were only talking about the Judeo-Christian afterlife, I'd be more inclined to take the money. But can you honestly say you're 100% sure there is no possibility of an afterlife of any kind? I can't. I can think of several somewhat plausible possibilities for an "afterlife" without even going into the realm of the supernatural.

Jeremy

Sure, but this wager is just as silly. It assumes that there is some way receiving a million dollars will disqualify you from all possible, unverified, afterlives. It's as worthless as Pascal's wager, so the 'correct' choice is take the money.

toddjh · 15th December 2003, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bjornart
Sure, but this wager is just as silly. It assumes that there is some way receiving a million dollars will disqualify you from all possible, unverified, afterlives.

Well, yes. But it's a hypothetical situation. You don't have to take it at face value.

Quote:

It's as worthless as Pascal's wager, so the 'correct' choice is take the money.

If you reject the hypothetical, there is no correct answer.

Jeremy

bjornart · 15th December 2003, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toddjh

Well, yes. But it's a hypothetical situation. You don't have to take it at face value.

Hypothetical and stooopid. And it could easily have been made more ... realistic by posing it as something like this:
"If every known religion preaching an afterlife stated sex before marriage would damn you to hell, would you still do it?"
Which is of course a much simpler 'dilemma'.

The problem with the OQ is that it's completely illogical to know receiving the money will damn you to hell, and at the same time not having definite knowledge that there is a hell.

Quote:

If you reject the hypothetical, there is no correct answer.

Jeremy

Thus the single quotes around 'correct'.

toddjh · 15th December 2003, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bjornart
Hypothetical and stooopid. And it could easily have been made more ... realistic by posing it as something like this:
"If every known religion preaching an afterlife stated sex before marriage would damn you to hell, would you still do it?"
Which is of course a much simpler 'dilemma'.

Well, I imagine that's the whole point. Hypothetical situations like this are meant to take a scenario to absurd extremes so that you can't use semantics to take the easy way out. Doesn't always work, apparently.

Jeremy

aerosolben · 16th December 2003, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toddjh
Well, I imagine that's the whole point. Hypothetical situations like this are meant to take a scenario to absurd extremes so that you can't use semantics to take the easy way out. Doesn't always work, apparently.

True.

But, I'm standing with you on this one. I don't take the money.

According to the hypothetical, it is a certainty that if there were an afterlife, you would burn in hell. However, since there's an infinite possible number of afterlives, how would this money offerer (assuming he's the one with the knowledge too) be able to affermatively put forth this true (by the constraints of the problem) statement?

Answer: There is a real afterlife, and he knows what it is. Hence the knowledge for the conditions of the hypothetical, and hence the chance of me actually burning in hell is quite high. I suppose the guy could be guessing and correct by accident, but in the weird world where I can have instant mysterious knowledge about conditional propositions involving the afterlife, I'm not inclined to gamble.

However, in real life, where the burning in helll bit was just told to me without the mystical knowledge, I'd take the money.

EDIT TO ADD that Todd is also correct about this hypothetical not suffering the problems of Pascal's wager. However, unlike Pascal's wager (were it problem-free), this hypothetical is irrelevant in the real world.

roger · 16th December 2003, 01:28 PM

Given that I'm already doing plenty of things that will get me damned to hell according to one religion or another, I don't see the problem in adding one more thing to that list. Gimme money.

BillyJoe · 18th December 2003, 03:14 AM

Yeah, gimme the money.

First of all there is no afterlife hundred percent certain.
Second of all there is no soul but you can burn it in hell for eternity if you can find it.

BillyJoe

ImageOfReality · 18th December 2003, 04:19 AM

What’s the alternative to hell. If living with some of the people that they say are going to heaven is the only option I’d rather be in hell, with or without the money. Anyway it’s supposed to be warm down there. That sounds kind of good. I live in cooold Montana.

You didn’t say what version of hell you would get to go to. My version is I get to go to a nice warm place where I can sit around and roast marshmallows with my friends and relatives. Maybe put a few true believers on the rotisserie. Mmmm, Yum, Yum.

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Voters: 1. You may not vote on this poll

13th December 2003, 04:46 PM	#1
Stereolab Massager of French Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,356	Another poll about: how certain are you? Let's say you are offered one million dollars in cash, immediately, no questions asked. The catch is that, if there is any sort of afterlife at all, your soul burns in hell for eternity. Do you take the money?

13th December 2003, 05:08 PM	#2
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029	My answer would be: Thanks for the cash, I'll donate some JREF, a little into the Yahweh Sportscar Financial Support Fund, then some into evolutionary biology research, some cash into a college educashun, and other things I might be able to think of... Maybe I'll buy a clown...
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029

13th December 2003, 05:10 PM	#3
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	Quote: Originally posted by Yahweh My answer would be: Thanks for the cash, I'll donate some JREF, a little into the Yahweh Sportscar Financial Support Fund, then some into evolutionary biology research, some cash into a college educashun, and other things I might be able to think of... Maybe I'll buy a clown... Rent the clown. That way you can return him once you get bored. Yes, you'll get bored.
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

13th December 2003, 05:11 PM	#4
toddjh Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,252	Re: Another poll about: how certain are you? Quote: Originally posted by Stereolab Let's say you are offered one million dollars in cash, immediately, no questions asked. The catch is that, if there is any sort of afterlife at all, your soul burns in hell for eternity. Do you take the money? A simple risk analysis is enough for this one. The payoff is finite (one million dollars), but the potential loss is infinite. Thus, unless there is zero possibility of an afterlife, or you're 100% certain you'd wind up in hell anyway, you're better off skipping it in the average case. That kind of certainty isn't rational. I'd pass. Jeremy

13th December 2003, 05:15 PM	#5
Lord Muck oGentry Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 986	I take evidence.Believers can't afford me. Regards. Muck.
Lord Muck oGentry Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 986

13th December 2003, 07:17 PM	#6
Chanileslie Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,378	Re: Another poll about: how certain are you? Quote: Originally posted by Stereolab Let's say you are offered one million dollars in cash, immediately, no questions asked. The catch is that, if there is any sort of afterlife at all, your soul burns in hell for eternity. Do you take the money? I answered, 'take the money and hope that I am right,' although that isn't my true answer. My true answer is: 'take the money.'

13th December 2003, 08:35 PM	#7
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Your base Posts: 8,427	I'd take that money and spend it on indulgences, then lie back and see what happens.
	__________________ Ha ha ha ha.... Stupid signature size limit.

13th December 2003, 08:46 PM	#8
BroodingSkill Thinker Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: the Good ole 559 Posts: 178	Cash Please!
	__________________ Extraordinay claims...blah blah...extraordinary evidence.

13th December 2003, 09:16 PM	#9
T'ai Chi Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 11,235	I'd take the money as lack of evidence supports saying there is probably no soul, afterlife, hell, etc. However, I'd also do a lot of good things with that much money regardless.
	__________________ http://www.statisticool.com

14th December 2003, 02:00 AM	#10
Ratman_tf Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,002	Sounds like Pascal's Wager to me. I'd shoot everyone involved with offering me the million without warning. I hate Pascal's Wager.
	__________________ "In the end, I was so decent, I stopped being a Christian altogether!" -Ruby --- "God is an invention of Man. So the nature of God is only a shallow mystery. The deep mystery is the nature of Man." -Nanrei Kobori

14th December 2003, 02:43 AM	#11
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,666	I also answered, 'take the money and hope that I am right,' because it was closer to my real answer. Are you nuts, pass up a million bucks why? An unverifiable rumor? Mythology? By the way, make it $10 million while yer at it.
	__________________ When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder "Stupidity - a callow indifference to facts or data" - Stuart Firestein -neuroscientist. I hate bigots.

14th December 2003, 02:48 AM	#12
Craig The Rampant Scotsman...rar! Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 769	Well, damn, I see that I'm wearing more than two types of cloth. That's Hell for me, I'm afraid...might as well get paid for it...

14th December 2003, 07:48 AM	#13
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,681	Take the money, no hope. I already made the decision to burn in hell rather than bend my knee to that god they wind up on sunday. If I am judged on my works it won't matter! The money is probably fake, just like the afterlife.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

14th December 2003, 09:24 AM	#14
espritch Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,380	Weren't indulgences the diametric opposite of this: give the Catholic Church generous donations and if there is an afterlife, you get to go to heaven? P.S. I voted "take the money". Whether there's an after life or not, it's a safe bet that the person offering the deal will have absolutely no influence over whether or not I go to heaven or hell.
	__________________ "I'm the master of low expectations." - G. W. Bush

14th December 2003, 12:38 PM	#15
billydkid Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Blanchester, OH Posts: 4,930	Re: Re: Another poll about: how certain are you? Quote: Originally posted by toddjh A simple risk analysis is enough for this one. The payoff is finite (one million dollars), but the potential loss is infinite. Thus, unless there is zero possibility of an afterlife, or you're 100% certain you'd wind up in hell anyway, you're better off skipping it in the average case. That kind of certainty isn't rational. I'd pass. Jeremy The Pascal's wager thing. Look, it would all depend on the definition of terms. Who's hell are we refering to? The Christian/Jewish hell? Muslim hell? Some other hypothetical hell? Is this a particular hell or just a general notion that you suffer in some kind of hell or other if there happens to be one?

14th December 2003, 01:12 PM	#16
jimmygun Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,589	I'd do it for free fries at MacDonalds!
	__________________ Jimmygun I have been referred to as a non-believer. I prefer the term 'Non-pretender'

14th December 2003, 01:22 PM	#17
sorgoth Muse Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 977	I would take the money. I would accept for anything over 10$.
sorgoth Muse Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 977	__________________ L'univers et moi, nous sommes seuls ensemble.

14th December 2003, 09:19 PM	#18
Schizobunny Thinker Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 126	Re: Another poll about: how certain are you? Quote: Originally posted by Stereolab Let's say you are offered one million dollars in cash, immediately, no questions asked. The catch is that, if there is any sort of afterlife at all, your soul burns in hell for eternity. Do you take the money? The question is if there is a hell and you still have money left when you die can you take the money with you?
Schizobunny Thinker Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 126	__________________ "To announce there must be no criticism of the president or we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but morally treasonable to the American republic."--Teddy Roosevelt

15th December 2003, 02:10 AM	#19
Matabiri Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,734	Re: Another poll about: how certain are you? Quote: Originally posted by Stereolab Let's say you are offered one million dollars in cash, immediately, no questions asked. The catch is that, if there is any sort of afterlife at all, your soul burns in hell for eternity. Do you take the money? Seeing as by doubting the existence of an afterlife, I'm already damned to Hell anyway, I might as well live it up while I'm at it. Isn't there a Simpsons episode where Homer sells his soul to the devil (Ned) for a doughnut, but gets out of it because he's already given it to Marge? How's that for a safe bet?

15th December 2003, 04:07 AM	#20
Mr Clingford Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK Posts: 1,689	Why would taking 1 Million dollars cash mean that you would burn eternally in hell?

15th December 2003, 04:26 AM	#21
Lothian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: https://twitter.com/CV4UK Posts: 10,373	I would take the money. Even if it was a sure bet £1,000,000 now and you soul roasting in hell or nothing now and your soul residing in Heaven, I would take the money. The things I enjoy in life have nothing to do with my soul. To be honest I don’t even know what my soul is. Can my soul drink, play sport, see things, physically feel? What pain would it be in if it went to hell ? Would I know or be aware ? Once my soul leaves my body where is my brain ? Left behind with the body ? For a truer interpretation of Pascal’s wager rather than receive £1,000,000 you pay £1,000,000 now but might save your soul. P.S. Soul for sale. No reasonable offer refused.

15th December 2003, 05:25 AM	#22
Samus space hunter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,003	Would this money be taxed?
Samus space hunter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,003

15th December 2003, 07:47 AM	#23
toddjh Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,252	Re: Re: Re: Another poll about: how certain are you? Quote: Originally posted by billydkid The Pascal's wager thing. Look, it would all depend on the definition of terms. Who's hell are we refering to? The Christian/Jewish hell? Muslim hell? Some other hypothetical hell? Is this a particular hell or just a general notion that you suffer in some kind of hell or other if there happens to be one? It's not the same as Pascal's Wager. Pascal's Wager just assumes there is one single afterlife to be concerned about. Its downfall is that the wager itself gives no clue which god you're supposed to worship. This situation, on the other hand, states that if there is any afterlife, you're going to burn in some kind of hell. It covers all possible religions. If it were only talking about the Judeo-Christian afterlife, I'd be more inclined to take the money. But can you honestly say you're 100% sure there is no possibility of an afterlife of any kind? I can't. I can think of several somewhat plausible possibilities for an "afterlife" without even going into the realm of the supernatural. Jeremy

15th December 2003, 07:59 AM	#24
bjornart Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,395	Re: Re: Re: Re: Another poll about: how certain are you? Quote: Originally posted by toddjh It's not the same as Pascal's Wager. Pascal's Wager just assumes there is one single afterlife to be concerned about. Its downfall is that the wager itself gives no clue which god you're supposed to worship. This situation, on the other hand, states that if there is any afterlife, you're going to burn in some kind of hell. It covers all possible religions. If it were only talking about the Judeo-Christian afterlife, I'd be more inclined to take the money. But can you honestly say you're 100% sure there is no possibility of an afterlife of any kind? I can't. I can think of several somewhat plausible possibilities for an "afterlife" without even going into the realm of the supernatural. Jeremy Sure, but this wager is just as silly. It assumes that there is some way receiving a million dollars will disqualify you from all possible, unverified, afterlives. It's as worthless as Pascal's wager, so the 'correct' choice is take the money.
bjornart Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,395	__________________ Well, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU LIKE TO BELIEVE, GODDAMMIT! I DEAL IN THE FACTS! -Cecil Adams

15th December 2003, 08:02 AM	#25
toddjh Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,252	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another poll about: how certain are you? Quote: Originally posted by bjornart Sure, but this wager is just as silly. It assumes that there is some way receiving a million dollars will disqualify you from all possible, unverified, afterlives. Well, yes. But it's a hypothetical situation. You don't have to take it at face value. Quote: It's as worthless as Pascal's wager, so the 'correct' choice is take the money. If you reject the hypothetical, there is no correct answer. Jeremy

15th December 2003, 08:13 AM	#26
bjornart Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,395	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another poll about: how certain are you? Quote: Originally posted by toddjh Well, yes. But it's a hypothetical situation. You don't have to take it at face value. Hypothetical and stooopid. And it could easily have been made more ... realistic by posing it as something like this: "If every known religion preaching an afterlife stated sex before marriage would damn you to hell, would you still do it?" Which is of course a much simpler 'dilemma'. The problem with the OQ is that it's completely illogical to know receiving the money will damn you to hell, and at the same time not having definite knowledge that there is a hell. Quote: If you reject the hypothetical, there is no correct answer. Jeremy Thus the single quotes around 'correct'.
bjornart Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,395	__________________ Well, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU LIKE TO BELIEVE, GODDAMMIT! I DEAL IN THE FACTS! -Cecil Adams

15th December 2003, 08:20 AM	#27
toddjh Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,252	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another poll about: how certain are you? Quote: Originally posted by bjornart Hypothetical and stooopid. And it could easily have been made more ... realistic by posing it as something like this: "If every known religion preaching an afterlife stated sex before marriage would damn you to hell, would you still do it?" Which is of course a much simpler 'dilemma'. Well, I imagine that's the whole point. Hypothetical situations like this are meant to take a scenario to absurd extremes so that you can't use semantics to take the easy way out. Doesn't always work, apparently. Jeremy

16th December 2003, 12:02 PM	#28
aerosolben Evil Genius Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,270	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another poll about: how certain are you? Quote: Originally posted by toddjh Well, I imagine that's the whole point. Hypothetical situations like this are meant to take a scenario to absurd extremes so that you can't use semantics to take the easy way out. Doesn't always work, apparently. True. But, I'm standing with you on this one. I don't take the money. According to the hypothetical, it is a certainty that if there were an afterlife, you would burn in hell. However, since there's an infinite possible number of afterlives, how would this money offerer (assuming he's the one with the knowledge too) be able to affermatively put forth this true (by the constraints of the problem) statement? Answer: There is a real afterlife, and he knows what it is. Hence the knowledge for the conditions of the hypothetical, and hence the chance of me actually burning in hell is quite high. I suppose the guy could be guessing and correct by accident, but in the weird world where I can have instant mysterious knowledge about conditional propositions involving the afterlife, I'm not inclined to gamble. However, in real life, where the burning in helll bit was just told to me without the mystical knowledge, I'd take the money. EDIT TO ADD that Todd is also correct about this hypothetical not suffering the problems of Pascal's wager. However, unlike Pascal's wager (were it problem-free), this hypothetical is irrelevant in the real world.
aerosolben Evil Genius Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,270	__________________ You can tell a lot about a fellow's character by his way of eating jellybeans. - Ronald Reagan

16th December 2003, 01:28 PM	#29
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,021	Given that I'm already doing plenty of things that will get me damned to hell according to one religion or another, I don't see the problem in adding one more thing to that list. Gimme money.

18th December 2003, 03:14 AM	#30
BillyJoe Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MOOROOLBARK Posts: 12,539	Yeah, gimme the money. First of all there is no afterlife hundred percent certain. Second of all there is no soul but you can burn it in hell for eternity if you can find it. BillyJoe
	__________________ A secular society is one in which no one loses any liberty as a consequence of someone else's religious beliefs. NB Allowing yourself to get led around the nose by a person like Craig is a losing strategy. SH Morality is a social coating around a Darwinian core. JC My joke about freewill: There is no basis for it.

18th December 2003, 04:19 AM	#31
ImageOfReality New Blood Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2	What’s the alternative to hell. If living with some of the people that they say are going to heaven is the only option I’d rather be in hell, with or without the money. Anyway it’s supposed to be warm down there. That sounds kind of good. I live in cooold Montana. You didn’t say what version of hell you would get to go to. My version is I get to go to a nice warm place where I can sit around and roast marshmallows with my friends and relatives. Maybe put a few true believers on the rotisserie. Mmmm, Yum, Yum.
ImageOfReality New Blood Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2