Zipping mystery video orb mystery

Caustic Logic · 20th August 2009, 03:35 PM

http://www.youtube.com/user/RiversMiranda

This is the Youtube page of a friend who's taken to filming "UFOs" of unusual type. I'm curious about the "Sun spot" ones(multi vids). Theyseem to be in the sky, but maybe not, zipping by at inredilbe speeds - just little dots.

Does anyone here happen to know what explains these. Is it a video optics, optical optics, cryptozoology, or UFOlogy, or ...

Ziggurat · 20th August 2009, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

http://www.youtube.com/user/RiversMiranda

This is the Youtube page of a friend who's taken to filming "UFOs" of unusual type. I'm curious about the "Sun spot" ones(multi vids). Theyseem to be in the sky, but maybe not, zipping by at inredilbe speeds - just little dots.

Does anyone here happen to know what explains these. Is it a video optics, optical optics, cryptozoology, or UFOlogy, or ...

Looks like out-of-focus dust drifting close to the camera to me.

Caustic Logic · 21st August 2009, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Looks like out-of-focus dust drifting close to the camera to me.

Thanks. That's about all I can honestly guess as well. I'm going to see if he has or can test this possibility.

Corsair 115 · 21st August 2009, 01:21 AM

I'd say at least some of those "UFOs" are actually backlit insects, e.g. flies, wasps, bees, mosquitoes, etc.

Caustic Logic · 21st August 2009, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by Corsair 115

I'd say at least some of those "UFOs" are actually backlit insects, e.g. flies, wasps, bees, mosquitoes, etc.

That's... yknow, hold on... yeah!

At first I thought they were too uniform. It looks like a windy day by the clouds and these things are nearly all zipping along R-L as the wind. But some do zip in at other angles and veer. And this is what bugs would do. Some of them seem to fast for bugs, but that's plus wind. And it's windy.

Also maybe debris, dandelion wispy things, dandruff, creating glare blobs, passing very close to the lens, could, with illusion of depth, imply incredible speed. That and/or bugs with the same idea. Anyway, small foreground objects probably not hyperspeed ships clustered in the stratosphere invisibly until you "put on those sunglasses" (I made that up, not my friend's theory, which I don't think he has). It looks like they're beyond the light pole, if you look at it that way. Alternately, they may be skimming the lens with their glare lost in the shadow.

EHocking · 21st August 2009, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

http://www.youtube.com/user/RiversMiranda

This is the Youtube page of a friend who's taken to filming "UFOs" of unusual type. I'm curious about the "Sun spot" ones(multi vids). Theyseem to be in the sky, but maybe not, zipping by at inredilbe speeds - just little dots.

Does anyone here happen to know what explains these. Is it a video optics, optical optics, cryptozoology, or UFOlogy, or ...

Talk about a blast from the past. I was aware of this over 10 years ago, but never got around to reproducing it.

Here's my usenet post from 1998,

Quote:

Bob, don't know if this is really what you're after, but I found it
interesting. Picked this up from a website posted at sci.skeptic. Can't
remember who it was, so I've left the followups as per your post, just in
case someone can supply more.

The technique is for filming UFO's and is attributed to John Bro.

In short, position yourself so that the sun is just blocked by an eave and
you can see the sun's 'corona'. What this area for some 5 to 10 minutes
(wear sunglasses) and soon you will see "UFO's" dashing around. This is not
an optical illusion, as you can set up a camcorder to record these objects.
I've seen some of the results and they are better than some of the best
frauds I've seen.
Hopefully someone on sci.skeptic will recognise this and be able to supply
an URL. I do have a JPEG of a sketch of the setup from the site if you're
interested. And will give full credit where credit is due if I can track
down the website.

Oh, and here's that website I was referring to (courtesy of the WebArchive). It probably is the original article I read and has link to the passage from a book by the originator of the "technique", John Bro.

Caustic Logic · 22nd August 2009, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by EHocking

Talk about a blast from the past. I was aware of this over 10 years ago, but never got around to reproducing it.

Here's my usenet post from 1998,

Oh, and here's that website I was referring to (courtesy of the WebArchive). It probably is the original article I read and has link to the passage from a book by the originator of the "technique", John Bro.

Cool, man, thanks! I couldn't get his pictures to come up. But you've seen these zippers too? I'd be interested to know if you ever developed a theory as to just what was responsible?

I talked to "Rivers Miranda" (not real name, my best friend) and he says the particles seemed to be in the distance, given the way they responded when zooming in, I think. I'm not sure. I need to re-watch. Not an expert.

Why I suspect small foreground stuff just drifting by on a decent breeze is how it can look large and fast and thus "whao, crazy!" Further objects would need to be increasingly fast/large to both appear on and traverse the screen in the time they do. Basketball size orbs at say 100 ft altitude would probably have been noticed by now, crusing at fastball speeds at least. Yes, even if they were invisible normally. Spaceship-size cruisers higher up would also be hard to miss zipping by at the rate of hundreds per minute like this.

They can't be physically real... ghosts? OMG, ghost attack! Why it's considered a UFO issue I'm still not sure.

Caustic Logic · 22nd August 2009, 12:40 AM

ETA: Watched again more closely and yeah, I didn't notice it before it's totally zoom-dependent. At one setting there invisible (or nearly so - a few show up). Zoom in and suddenly there's a swarm. Pull back and they fade away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E9DcMpvhkQ
At 2:20 and esp. right at 4:03 you can see the shift on zooming.

Perhaps a camera and lens / light processing issue?

I'm still not confident how to decide scale and depth here.

Corsair 115 · 22nd August 2009, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

ETA: Watched again more closely and yeah, I didn't notice it before it's totally zoom-dependent. At one setting there invisible (or nearly so - a few show up). Zoom in and suddenly there's a swarm. Pull back and they fade away.

Zooming in a lens causes the visual depth-of-field to compress. That is, objects which appear far away relative to a foreground object in a wide angle view will seem much larger and closer to the foreground object when zoomed in.

Seems to me this fits in well with some of the 'orbs' being insects. Zoomed out, they're too small to register well. Zoom in, and they'll show up better since they're magnified relative to the foreground due to the foreshortening caused by zooming in.

Caustic Logic · 22nd August 2009, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Corsair 115

Zooming in a lens causes the visual depth-of-field to compress. That is, objects which appear far away relative to a foreground object in a wide angle view will seem much larger and closer to the foreground object when zoomed in.

Seems to me this fits in well with some of the 'orbs' being insects. Zoomed out, they're too small to register well. Zoom in, and they'll show up better since they're magnified relative to the foreground due to the foreshortening caused by zooming in.

I'm inclined to agree. I'm not the video expert my friend is, but it seems like something beyond normal magnification, but directly related to the zoom effect. I'm wondering about the way light is processed in the camera, either from the zoom setting itself or simply from what's in the frame (light vs. dark). Plus magnification.

20th August 2009, 03:35 PM	#1
Caustic Logic Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,979	Zipping mystery video orb mystery http://www.youtube.com/user/RiversMiranda This is the Youtube page of a friend who's taken to filming "UFOs" of unusual type. I'm curious about the "Sun spot" ones(multi vids). Theyseem to be in the sky, but maybe not, zipping by at inredilbe speeds - just little dots. Does anyone here happen to know what explains these. Is it a video optics, optical optics, cryptozoology, or UFOlogy, or ...

20th August 2009, 03:44 PM	#2
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,223	Originally Posted by Caustic Logic http://www.youtube.com/user/RiversMiranda This is the Youtube page of a friend who's taken to filming "UFOs" of unusual type. I'm curious about the "Sun spot" ones(multi vids). Theyseem to be in the sky, but maybe not, zipping by at inredilbe speeds - just little dots. Does anyone here happen to know what explains these. Is it a video optics, optical optics, cryptozoology, or UFOlogy, or ... Looks like out-of-focus dust drifting close to the camera to me.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

21st August 2009, 01:21 AM	#4
Corsair 115 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tranquility Base Posts: 8,590	I'd say at least some of those "UFOs" are actually backlit insects, e.g. flies, wasps, bees, mosquitoes, etc.
	__________________ "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."

21st August 2009, 06:02 AM	#6
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,410	Originally Posted by Caustic Logic http://www.youtube.com/user/RiversMiranda This is the Youtube page of a friend who's taken to filming "UFOs" of unusual type. I'm curious about the "Sun spot" ones(multi vids). Theyseem to be in the sky, but maybe not, zipping by at inredilbe speeds - just little dots. Does anyone here happen to know what explains these. Is it a video optics, optical optics, cryptozoology, or UFOlogy, or ... Talk about a blast from the past. I was aware of this over 10 years ago, but never got around to reproducing it. Here's my usenet post from 1998, Quote: Bob, don't know if this is really what you're after, but I found it interesting. Picked this up from a website posted at sci.skeptic. Can't remember who it was, so I've left the followups as per your post, just in case someone can supply more. The technique is for filming UFO's and is attributed to John Bro. In short, position yourself so that the sun is just blocked by an eave and you can see the sun's 'corona'. What this area for some 5 to 10 minutes (wear sunglasses) and soon you will see "UFO's" dashing around. This is not an optical illusion, as you can set up a camcorder to record these objects. I've seen some of the results and they are better than some of the best frauds I've seen. Hopefully someone on sci.skeptic will recognise this and be able to supply an URL. I do have a JPEG of a sketch of the setup from the site if you're interested. And will give full credit where credit is due if I can track down the website. Oh, and here's that website I was referring to (courtesy of the WebArchive). It probably is the original article I read and has link to the passage from a book by the originator of the "technique", John Bro.
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,410	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke Prayer: "a sophisticated way of pleading with thunderstorms." T.Pratchett "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite Forum Birdwatching Webpage

22nd August 2009, 12:44 PM	#9
Corsair 115 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tranquility Base Posts: 8,590	Originally Posted by Caustic Logic ETA: Watched again more closely and yeah, I didn't notice it before it's totally zoom-dependent. At one setting there invisible (or nearly so - a few show up). Zoom in and suddenly there's a swarm. Pull back and they fade away. Zooming in a lens causes the visual depth-of-field to compress. That is, objects which appear far away relative to a foreground object in a wide angle view will seem much larger and closer to the foreground object when zoomed in. Seems to me this fits in well with some of the 'orbs' being insects. Zoomed out, they're too small to register well. Zoom in, and they'll show up better since they're magnified relative to the foreground due to the foreshortening caused by zooming in.
	__________________ "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."

21st August 2009, 12:10 AM	#3
Caustic Logic Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,979	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Looks like out-of-focus dust drifting close to the camera to me. Thanks. That's about all I can honestly guess as well. I'm going to see if he has or can test this possibility.

21st August 2009, 01:52 AM	#5
Caustic Logic Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,979	Originally Posted by Corsair 115 I'd say at least some of those "UFOs" are actually backlit insects, e.g. flies, wasps, bees, mosquitoes, etc. That's... yknow, hold on... yeah! At first I thought they were too uniform. It looks like a windy day by the clouds and these things are nearly all zipping along R-L as the wind. But some do zip in at other angles and veer. And this is what bugs would do. Some of them seem to fast for bugs, but that's plus wind. And it's windy. Also maybe debris, dandelion wispy things, dandruff, creating glare blobs, passing very close to the lens, could, with illusion of depth, imply incredible speed. That and/or bugs with the same idea. Anyway, small foreground objects probably not hyperspeed ships clustered in the stratosphere invisibly until you "put on those sunglasses" (I made that up, not my friend's theory, which I don't think he has). It looks like they're beyond the light pole, if you look at it that way. Alternately, they may be skimming the lens with their glare lost in the shadow.

22nd August 2009, 12:26 AM	#7
Caustic Logic Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,979	Originally Posted by EHocking Talk about a blast from the past. I was aware of this over 10 years ago, but never got around to reproducing it. Here's my usenet post from 1998, Oh, and here's that website I was referring to (courtesy of the WebArchive). It probably is the original article I read and has link to the passage from a book by the originator of the "technique", John Bro. Cool, man, thanks! I couldn't get his pictures to come up. But you've seen these zippers too? I'd be interested to know if you ever developed a theory as to just what was responsible? I talked to "Rivers Miranda" (not real name, my best friend) and he says the particles seemed to be in the distance, given the way they responded when zooming in, I think. I'm not sure. I need to re-watch. Not an expert. Why I suspect small foreground stuff just drifting by on a decent breeze is how it can look large and fast and thus "whao, crazy!" Further objects would need to be increasingly fast/large to both appear on and traverse the screen in the time they do. Basketball size orbs at say 100 ft altitude would probably have been noticed by now, crusing at fastball speeds at least. Yes, even if they were invisible normally. Spaceship-size cruisers higher up would also be hard to miss zipping by at the rate of hundreds per minute like this. They can't be physically real... ghosts? OMG, ghost attack! Why it's considered a UFO issue I'm still not sure.

22nd August 2009, 12:40 AM	#8
Caustic Logic Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,979	ETA: Watched again more closely and yeah, I didn't notice it before it's totally zoom-dependent. At one setting there invisible (or nearly so - a few show up). Zoom in and suddenly there's a swarm. Pull back and they fade away. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E9DcMpvhkQ At 2:20 and esp. right at 4:03 you can see the shift on zooming. Perhaps a camera and lens / light processing issue? I'm still not confident how to decide scale and depth here.

22nd August 2009, 11:45 PM	#10
Caustic Logic Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,979	Originally Posted by Corsair 115 Zooming in a lens causes the visual depth-of-field to compress. That is, objects which appear far away relative to a foreground object in a wide angle view will seem much larger and closer to the foreground object when zoomed in. Seems to me this fits in well with some of the 'orbs' being insects. Zoomed out, they're too small to register well. Zoom in, and they'll show up better since they're magnified relative to the foreground due to the foreshortening caused by zooming in. I'm inclined to agree. I'm not the video expert my friend is, but it seems like something beyond normal magnification, but directly related to the zoom effect. I'm wondering about the way light is processed in the camera, either from the zoom setting itself or simply from what's in the frame (light vs. dark). Plus magnification.