Who killed JonBenet Ramsey?

let`s talk · 3rd September 2009, 07:44 AM

Who killed her?

Mommy did it? Daddy? A stranger?

Ideas...

Moved from "education" to a more correct forum. It may eventually wind up in "conspiracy theories" depending on how this goes.

Posted By:Tricky

That_guy · 3rd September 2009, 10:31 AM

Professor Snape... in the abbatoire... with a monkey.

fuelair · 3rd September 2009, 10:33 AM

Mommy faked at least a note, so.............

WildCat · 3rd September 2009, 10:34 AM

Yes.

oldhat · 3rd September 2009, 10:41 AM

JimBenArm · 3rd September 2009, 10:44 AM

I shouted out "who killed JonBenet?"
when after all, it was you and me...

billydkid · 3rd September 2009, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by JimBenArm

I shouted out "who killed JonBenet?"
when after all, it was you and me...

and we all killed Michael Jackson.

pipelineaudio · 3rd September 2009, 10:52 AM

well that was helpful

Segnosaur · 3rd September 2009, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by let`s talk

Who killed JonBenet Ramsey?

Who killed her?

Mommy did it? Daddy? A stranger?

Not likely either of her parents... any 'evidence' against them appears to be rather flimsey at best. Plus, there are specific reasons that you could exclude the parents...

In the book "The Cases that Haunt Us" by former FBI criminal profiler John Douglas, he points out a few things...
- The body was found by John Ramsey... in most cases where someone murders a family member, the killer will set things up so that somone ELSE finds the body
- The Ransom note was rather, ahem, strange... it asked for a very small sum of money (far less than what the Ramseys could afford.) If the note was made up by either parent to deflect suspicion, why not make it a reasonable amount?

On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that points to an intruder...
- An opened window in the basement (along with debris, and palm/boot prints that didn't match any of the family's)
- Hair found on the blanket found with the body didn't match anyone in the house
- Duct tape and rope didn't match any found in the house
- There were marks on the body that may have been made by a stun gun

JimBenArm · 3rd September 2009, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

well that was helpful

I do what I can.

slingblade · 3rd September 2009, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by JimBenArm

I shouted out "who killed JonBenet?"
when after all, it was you and me...

Pleased to meet you...

Segnosaur · 3rd September 2009, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by fuelair

Mommy faked at least a note, so.............

Ummm... which note would that be?

If you're referring to the ransom note, that's not likely. While there may have been similarities between the mom's handwriting and the note's, the similarities were so broad that millions of people would have been similarly matched. (In other words, the handwriting would have been enough to exclude someone as a susptect, but not enough to include someone as a suspect.)

Furthermore, some of the elements of the note wouldn't match what you would expect a mom to write; it made references to certain action movies that were recently released (not the type of movie a young mother would go see), and the amount of money asked for was very small.

Segnosaur · 3rd September 2009, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by oldhat

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o...detained_2.jpg

Yeah, I think John Mark Karr has pretty much been eliminated as a suspect...
- The only real evidence that seems to have come up against him is his own confession
- He has not provided any new details about the crime, and some of the stuff he HAS said has contradicted know facts
- There was a statement by an ex-wife that he was actually in Alabama at the time of the murder (http://www.denverpost.com/jonbenet/ci_4203931)

Kel · 3rd September 2009, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Ummm... which note would that be?

If you're referring to the ransom note, that's not likely. While there may have been similarities between the mom's handwriting and the note's, the similarities were so broad that millions of people would have been similarly matched. (In other words, the handwriting would have been enough to exclude someone as a susptect, but not enough to include someone as a suspect.)

Furthermore, some of the elements of the note wouldn't match what you would expect a mom to write; it made references to certain action movies that were recently released (not the type of movie a young mother would go see), and the amount of money asked for was very small.

I read the wikipedia page, but I could not find reference to it...

When the crime happened, I seem to recall that there were other copies (rough drafts) of the notes found and crumpled in the garbage bin. Was this covered in the book mentioned upthread? If so, what was the author's opinion?

Cicero · 3rd September 2009, 11:44 AM

Perez Hilton. JonBenet gave the wrong answer to his question at a beauty pageant.

AWPrime · 3rd September 2009, 11:48 AM

Glenn Beck?

Segnosaur · 3rd September 2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Kel

I read the wikipedia page, but I could not find reference to it...

When the crime happened, I seem to recall that there were other copies (rough drafts) of the notes found and crumpled in the garbage bin. Was this covered in the book mentioned upthread? If so, what was the author's opinion?

The author had explained that the intruder would likely have broken in to the house hours before the Ramsey's arrived home, and as such would have had ample opportunity to compose rough drafts of ransom notes.

ETA: The author does say that one of the unknown questions is why didn't the killer bring a note with him. He suggests a couple of ideas... perhaps the killer did bring one, but decided to re-write it while waiting, or perhaps, if this had been his first 'kill', he may not have thought of a note until later. Its one of the elements that we may never understand.

He also pointed out that it would not have been likely for anyone to compose a ransom note AFTER the murder, since the excitement/thrill/or whatever would have made it difficult for the killer to focus. So, if the mother had done it, she would have had to compose the note FIRST (including any rough drafts), THEN kill the daughter.

thrombus29 · 3rd September 2009, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by AWPrime

Glenn Beck?

I don't know why Glenn Beck hasn't yet provided the evidence that he hasn't committed this heinous act.

What is Glenn Beck trying to hide?

TragicMonkey · 3rd September 2009, 01:42 PM

Nancy Grace

lionking · 3rd September 2009, 01:54 PM

Not the parents

Gord_in_Toronto · 3rd September 2009, 01:56 PM

The case of JonBenet Ramseyis what I usually bring up when I attempt to derail other threads about IMPORTANT THINGS IN THE NEWS on CNN and other like US "News" channels. So I am a bit slow in responding to this thread.

I think that the true answer is that we'll never know -- given the lousy job the police did at the crime scene. I suppose there might be a deathbed confession (with evidence) that would "explain all" but I don't see the police solving it.

Chaos · 3rd September 2009, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

The author had explained that the intruder would likely have broken in to the house hours before the Ramsey's arrived home, and as such would have had ample opportunity to compose rough drafts of ransom notes.

ETA: The author does say that one of the unknown questions is why didn't the killer bring a note with him. He suggests a couple of ideas... perhaps the killer did bring one, but decided to re-write it while waiting, or perhaps, if this had been his first 'kill', he may not have thought of a note until later. Its one of the elements that we may never understand.

He also pointed out that it would not have been likely for anyone to compose a ransom note AFTER the murder, since the excitement/thrill/or whatever would have made it difficult for the killer to focus. So, if the mother had done it, she would have had to compose the note FIRST (including any rough drafts), THEN kill the daughter.

How about the following scenario:

A burglar breaks into the Ramsey home, is encountered by JonBenet. One or both panick, the burglar either kills her in panic, or tries to silence her and accidentally kills her in the process.

Now the burglar is in a *real* panic. He decides to hide the body and write a ransom note - which turns out to be easier thought than done, thus the rough drafts. He obviously doesn´t have any experience with kidnapping, is unable to think clearly due to panic, and/or is not very smart - thus the very low amount demanded in the note. Thus also the idea that nobody would find the body, so people would believe it to be a kidnapping.

That done (for any given value of "done"), the burglar/murderer absconds, never to be seen again.

WildCat · 3rd September 2009, 03:23 PM

I bet it was one of her 6-year old beauty pageant rivals.

Serious 6 year old beauty pageants are serious.

ARubberChickenWithAPulley · 3rd September 2009, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Chaos

A burglar breaks into the Ramsey home, is encountered by JonBenet. One or both panick, the burglar either kills her in panic, or tries to silence her and accidentally kills her in the process.

Now the burglar is in a *real* panic. He decides to hide the body and write a ransom note - which turns out to be easier thought than done, thus the rough drafts. He obviously doesn´t have any experience with kidnapping, is unable to think clearly due to panic, and/or is not very smart - thus the very low amount demanded in the note. Thus also the idea that nobody would find the body, so people would believe it to be a kidnapping.

That done (for any given value of "done"), the burglar/murderer absconds, never to be seen again.

Seems unlikely, mainly because the ransom note mentions Ramsey by name, seemed very personally directed at him, and even demands a sum of money that was very close to a bonus he had recently received. It seems likely that the kidnapper knew Ramsey at some point (this is also from the John Douglas book mentioned above).

ARubberChickenWithAPulley · 3rd September 2009, 03:25 PM

It's worth noting that the prosecutors officially cleared the Ramseys of any wrongdoing last year.

Darth Rotor · 3rd September 2009, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by let`s talk

Who killed JonBenet Ramsey?
[/info]

Who cares?

Hmm, apparently you do.

Why?

@ Jim

I shouted out "Who killed Ted Kennedy,
When after all, it was just Jim Beam ..."

DR

firecoins · 3rd September 2009, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley

It's worth nothing that the prosecutors officially cleared the Ramseys of any wrongdoing last year.

its worth nothing or worth noting?

Cainkane1 · 3rd September 2009, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Who cares?

Hmm, apparently you do.

Why?

@ Jim

I shouted out "Who killed Ted Kennedy,
When after all, it was just Jim Beam ..."

DR

I care like hell who killed that girl. The murderer could be out there killing other children.

fuelair · 3rd September 2009, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Ummm... which note would that be?

If you're referring to the ransom note, that's not likely. While there may have been similarities between the mom's handwriting and the note's, the similarities were so broad that millions of people would have been similarly matched. (In other words, the handwriting would have been enough to exclude someone as a susptect, but not enough to include someone as a suspect.)

Furthermore, some of the elements of the note wouldn't match what you would expect a mom to write; it made references to certain action movies that were recently released (not the type of movie a young mother would go see), and the amount of money asked for was very small.

Unless something has changed since the early days of the case, the police were supposed to have found evidence that a note (I assume the one you mention, but do not know for sure) had been practiced on paper found in the house.

fuelair · 3rd September 2009, 04:45 PM

I tend to respond as soon as I see a question re my post/s so did not see the answer to this point. I will say whatever the R's did or didn't do they worked hard to be unhelpful in any way.

WildCat · 3rd September 2009, 04:46 PM

A dingo killed JonBenet!

Kestrel · 3rd September 2009, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley

It's worth nothing that the prosecutors officially cleared the Ramseys of any wrongdoing last year.

The Ramsey's were convicted by the tabloids. That seems to be enough for most Americans.

Find a match for the unidentified DNA found on JonBenet's body and the case will be solved.

ARubberChickenWithAPulley · 3rd September 2009, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by firecoins

its worth nothing or worth noting?

Urr.... noting. Heh heh. Fixed, thanks

ARubberChickenWithAPulley · 3rd September 2009, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by fuelair

Unless something has changed since the early days of the case, the police were supposed to have found evidence that a note (I assume the one you mention, but do not know for sure) had been practiced on paper found in the house.

They did find evidence that the killer started writing the note on a writing tablet, then stopped and wrote on a new page. The notepad in question was in their hallway, where an intruder would have had easy access to it. He/she apparently tried to disguise his/her handwriting but gave up.

Originally Posted by fuelair

I tend to respond as soon as I see a question re my post/s so did not see the answer to this point. I will say whatever the R's did or didn't do they worked hard to be unhelpful in any way.

In what way? The Ramseys responded to written questions. They met with police and prosecutors more than once, and went through several days of questioning.

They became uncooperative when it became clear that the police had little interest in investigating any other theories other than that they were the ones who killed their daughter. The police early on knew they had unidentifiable DNA in JonBenet's underwear, and an unidentifiable palm print at the crime scene. Instead of looking into those leads, they invented excuses to continue to focus on the Ramseys. At some point, I don't blame the Ramseys for becoming uncooperative. But they sure weren't from the start.

firecoins · 3rd September 2009, 05:44 PM

Could have been blood thirsty Jews who drink the blood from Christian children. I heard reports there were dancing Israelis seen in Colorado that week.

pgwenthold · 3rd September 2009, 06:34 PM

I just want to state, for the record, that although I lived in Boulder at the time, I was not in town that week, and was at my sisters the night of the murder. Honest!

Just thinking · 3rd September 2009, 09:43 PM

To this day, whenever I'm reminded of this crime, I still feel sympathy for that child. Why this one, I really don't know --- for sure there are plenty of others to have sympathy toward --- but yet I do.

Dorcas · 3rd September 2009, 11:46 PM

Probably because it looks like her parents manipulated and objectified her? I know nothing about this 'pageant' business but it doesn't look like she had a great childhood to me.

Segnosaur · 3rd September 2009, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley

Quote:

A burglar breaks into the Ramsey home, is encountered by JonBenet. One or both panick, the burglar either kills her in panic, or tries to silence her and accidentally kills her in the process.

Now the burglar is in a *real* panic. He decides to hide the body and write a ransom note - which turns out to be easier thought than done, thus the rough drafts. He obviously doesn´t have any experience with kidnapping, is unable to think clearly due to panic, and/or is not very smart

Seems unlikely, mainly because the ransom note mentions Ramsey by name, seemed very personally directed at him, and even demands a sum of money that was very close to a bonus he had recently received. It seems likely that the kidnapper knew Ramsey at some point (this is also from the John Douglas book mentioned above).

A good point.

A couple of other things that wouldn't exactly fit with the 'suprised burglar' theory...

- A burglar would have to remain in the house for some time after the murder/accidental killing in order to write the note. Unless he was some stone-cold killer, I doubt whether he'd have the presence of mind to stick around the house at all. You would expect some sort of panicing burglar-turned-killer to want to flee the scene as quickly as possible

- JonBenet was strangled; that doesn't exactly seem like the mode of death that could 'accidentally' be caused by a burglar.

- There didn't seem to be any evidence of missing or disturbed property. Unless Jonbenet suprised the burglar the second he entered the house, he would have had at least SOME time to go through their valuables, and you'd expect at least some items to be missing/out of place. There were no reports of that however.

ETA: One other reason to discount the 'surprised burglar' theory.... rope and duct tape used in the assault did not match anything available inside the home, so it was likely brought by the intruder. Those aren't exactly the type of tools that someone needs for 'just' breaking into a house.

Segnosaur · 4th September 2009, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Dorcas

Probably because it looks like her parents manipulated and objectified her? I know nothing about this 'pageant' business but it doesn't look like she had a great childhood to me.

Personally, if I had a daughter I would probably not want her participating in pageants myself. However, even if you or I question the wisdom of allowing children participate in pageants, by all accounts JonBenet actually enjoyed participating in them. She enjoyed the 'acting', and she enjoyed the ability to do stuff with her mom (who helped her with the pagaents).

So, even if it seems 'strange' to make a 6 year old child parade around on stage, it wasn't an activity that made JonBenet unhappy.

3rd September 2009, 10:33 AM	#3
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Mommy faked at least a note, so.............
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

3rd September 2009, 10:41 AM	#5
oldhat Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 997
oldhat Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 997	__________________ "I predict a complete rollover in Congress in 2010 to the Republicans. Bank on it. Laugh, but file it away in the back of your mind." -Beerina

3rd September 2009, 10:44 AM	#6
JimBenArm Based on a true story! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 12,985	I shouted out "who killed JonBenet?" when after all, it was you and me...
	__________________ *"JimBenArm is right"* Hokulele Mom

3rd September 2009, 10:51 AM	#7
billydkid Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Blanchester, OH Posts: 4,930	Originally Posted by JimBenArm I shouted out "who killed JonBenet?" when after all, it was you and me... and we all killed Michael Jackson.
	__________________ Wasting away in Blanchester.

3rd September 2009, 10:52 AM	#8
pipelineaudio Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wickenburg, AZ Posts: 3,670	well that was helpful
	__________________ Can someone give me a better name for SLAG FAIRY?

3rd September 2009, 10:31 AM	#2
That_guy Scholar Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: My house Posts: 116	Professor Snape... in the abbatoire... with a monkey.

3rd September 2009, 10:34 AM	#4
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,098	Yes.

3rd September 2009, 10:54 AM	#9
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,070	Originally Posted by let`s talk Who killed JonBenet Ramsey? Who killed her? Mommy did it? Daddy? A stranger? Not likely either of her parents... any 'evidence' against them appears to be rather flimsey at best. Plus, there are specific reasons that you could exclude the parents... In the book "The Cases that Haunt Us" by former FBI criminal profiler John Douglas, he points out a few things... - The body was found by John Ramsey... in most cases where someone murders a family member, the killer will set things up so that somone ELSE finds the body - The Ransom note was rather, ahem, strange... it asked for a very small sum of money (far less than what the Ramseys could afford.) If the note was made up by either parent to deflect suspicion, why not make it a reasonable amount? On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that points to an intruder... - An opened window in the basement (along with debris, and palm/boot prints that didn't match any of the family's) - Hair found on the blanket found with the body didn't match anyone in the house - Duct tape and rope didn't match any found in the house - There were marks on the body that may have been made by a stun gun
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

3rd September 2009, 11:07 AM	#10
JimBenArm Based on a true story! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 12,985	Originally Posted by pipelineaudio well that was helpful I do what I can.
	__________________ *"JimBenArm is right"* Hokulele Mom

3rd September 2009, 11:13 AM	#11
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Originally Posted by JimBenArm I shouted out "who killed JonBenet?" when after all, it was you and me... Pleased to meet you...
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

3rd September 2009, 11:25 AM	#12
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,070	Originally Posted by fuelair Mommy faked at least a note, so............. Ummm... which note would that be? If you're referring to the ransom note, that's not likely. While there may have been similarities between the mom's handwriting and the note's, the similarities were so broad that millions of people would have been similarly matched. (In other words, the handwriting would have been enough to exclude someone as a susptect, but not enough to include someone as a suspect.) Furthermore, some of the elements of the note wouldn't match what you would expect a mom to write; it made references to certain action movies that were recently released (not the type of movie a young mother would go see), and the amount of money asked for was very small.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

3rd September 2009, 11:34 AM	#13
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,070	Originally Posted by oldhat http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o...detained_2.jpg Yeah, I think John Mark Karr has pretty much been eliminated as a suspect... - The only real evidence that seems to have come up against him is his own confession - He has not provided any new details about the crime, and some of the stuff he HAS said has contradicted know facts - There was a statement by an ex-wife that he was actually in Alabama at the time of the murder (http://www.denverpost.com/jonbenet/ci_4203931)
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

3rd September 2009, 11:39 AM	#14
Kel Chronic Lurker Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Pit of Penultimate Darkness Posts: 468	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Ummm... which note would that be? If you're referring to the ransom note, that's not likely. While there may have been similarities between the mom's handwriting and the note's, the similarities were so broad that millions of people would have been similarly matched. (In other words, the handwriting would have been enough to exclude someone as a susptect, but not enough to include someone as a suspect.) Furthermore, some of the elements of the note wouldn't match what you would expect a mom to write; it made references to certain action movies that were recently released (not the type of movie a young mother would go see), and the amount of money asked for was very small. I read the wikipedia page, but I could not find reference to it... When the crime happened, I seem to recall that there were other copies (rough drafts) of the notes found and crumpled in the garbage bin. Was this covered in the book mentioned upthread? If so, what was the author's opinion?

3rd September 2009, 11:44 AM	#15
Cicero Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7,861	Perez Hilton. JonBenet gave the wrong answer to his question at a beauty pageant.
Cicero Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7,861	Last edited by Cicero; 3rd September 2009 at 11:47 AM.

3rd September 2009, 11:48 AM	#16
AWPrime Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,929	Glenn Beck?
AWPrime Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,929	__________________ Sir Arthur C. Clarke - "Any sufficiently advanced technology, to the uninformed observer, is indistinguishable from magic." c4ts - "Jesus loves the little children, Nice and fat and honey roasted..." Lancastic = Demonstrative of outstanding personal effort in the exposing of frauds. Rob Lister - "The enemy of my enemy probably tastes yummy. "

3rd September 2009, 12:07 PM	#17
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,070	Originally Posted by Kel I read the wikipedia page, but I could not find reference to it... When the crime happened, I seem to recall that there were other copies (rough drafts) of the notes found and crumpled in the garbage bin. Was this covered in the book mentioned upthread? If so, what was the author's opinion? The author had explained that the intruder would likely have broken in to the house hours before the Ramsey's arrived home, and as such would have had ample opportunity to compose rough drafts of ransom notes. ETA: The author does say that one of the unknown questions is why didn't the killer bring a note with him. He suggests a couple of ideas... perhaps the killer did bring one, but decided to re-write it while waiting, or perhaps, if this had been his first 'kill', he may not have thought of a note until later. Its one of the elements that we may never understand. He also pointed out that it would not have been likely for anyone to compose a ransom note AFTER the murder, since the excitement/thrill/or whatever would have made it difficult for the killer to focus. So, if the mother had done it, she would have had to compose the note FIRST (including any rough drafts), THEN kill the daughter.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy Last edited by Segnosaur; 3rd September 2009 at 12:13 PM.

3rd September 2009, 12:09 PM	#18
thrombus29 Flame War Master and JREF kid Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,927	Originally Posted by AWPrime Glenn Beck? I don't know why Glenn Beck hasn't yet provided the evidence that he hasn't committed this heinous act. What is Glenn Beck trying to hide?
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3rd September 2009, 01:42 PM	#19
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,108	Nancy Grace
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

3rd September 2009, 01:54 PM	#20
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,668	Not the parents
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

3rd September 2009, 01:56 PM	#21
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,418	The case of JonBenet Ramseyis what I usually bring up when I attempt to derail other threads about IMPORTANT THINGS IN THE NEWS on CNN and other like US "News" channels. So I am a bit slow in responding to this thread. I think that the true answer is that we'll never know -- given the lousy job the police did at the crime scene. I suppose there might be a deathbed confession (with evidence) that would "explain all" but I don't see the police solving it.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

3rd September 2009, 03:20 PM	#22
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,779	Originally Posted by Segnosaur The author had explained that the intruder would likely have broken in to the house hours before the Ramsey's arrived home, and as such would have had ample opportunity to compose rough drafts of ransom notes. ETA: The author does say that one of the unknown questions is why didn't the killer bring a note with him. He suggests a couple of ideas... perhaps the killer did bring one, but decided to re-write it while waiting, or perhaps, if this had been his first 'kill', he may not have thought of a note until later. Its one of the elements that we may never understand. He also pointed out that it would not have been likely for anyone to compose a ransom note AFTER the murder, since the excitement/thrill/or whatever would have made it difficult for the killer to focus. So, if the mother had done it, she would have had to compose the note FIRST (including any rough drafts), THEN kill the daughter. How about the following scenario: A burglar breaks into the Ramsey home, is encountered by JonBenet. One or both panick, the burglar either kills her in panic, or tries to silence her and accidentally kills her in the process. Now the burglar is in a real panic. He decides to hide the body and write a ransom note - which turns out to be easier thought than done, thus the rough drafts. He obviously doesn´t have any experience with kidnapping, is unable to think clearly due to panic, and/or is not very smart - thus the very low amount demanded in the note. Thus also the idea that nobody would find the body, so people would believe it to be a kidnapping. That done (for any given value of "done"), the burglar/murderer absconds, never to be seen again.
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

3rd September 2009, 03:23 PM	#23
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,098	I bet it was one of her 6-year old beauty pageant rivals. Serious 6 year old beauty pageants are serious.

3rd September 2009, 03:23 PM	#24
ARubberChickenWithAPulley Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,152	Originally Posted by Chaos A burglar breaks into the Ramsey home, is encountered by JonBenet. One or both panick, the burglar either kills her in panic, or tries to silence her and accidentally kills her in the process. Now the burglar is in a real panic. He decides to hide the body and write a ransom note - which turns out to be easier thought than done, thus the rough drafts. He obviously doesn´t have any experience with kidnapping, is unable to think clearly due to panic, and/or is not very smart - thus the very low amount demanded in the note. Thus also the idea that nobody would find the body, so people would believe it to be a kidnapping. That done (for any given value of "done"), the burglar/murderer absconds, never to be seen again. Seems unlikely, mainly because the ransom note mentions Ramsey by name, seemed very personally directed at him, and even demands a sum of money that was very close to a bonus he had recently received. It seems likely that the kidnapper knew Ramsey at some point (this is also from the John Douglas book mentioned above).

3rd September 2009, 03:25 PM	#25
ARubberChickenWithAPulley Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,152	It's worth noting that the prosecutors officially cleared the Ramseys of any wrongdoing last year.
	Last edited by ARubberChickenWithAPulley; 3rd September 2009 at 05:16 PM.

3rd September 2009, 04:09 PM	#26
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,265	Originally Posted by let`s talk Who killed JonBenet Ramsey? [/info] Who cares? Hmm, apparently you do. Why? @ Jim I shouted out "Who killed Ted Kennedy, When after all, it was just Jim Beam ..." DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

3rd September 2009, 04:12 PM	#27
firecoins Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nyack, NY Posts: 3,191	Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley It's worth nothing that the prosecutors officially cleared the Ramseys of any wrongdoing last year. its worth nothing or worth noting?
	__________________ NY Paramedic, skeptic, 9/11/01 Reality-ist. I am both right wing nut and left wing lunatic. Deal with it.

3rd September 2009, 04:23 PM	#28
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,198	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Who cares? Hmm, apparently you do. Why? @ Jim I shouted out "Who killed Ted Kennedy, When after all, it was just Jim Beam ..." DR I care like hell who killed that girl. The murderer could be out there killing other children.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

3rd September 2009, 04:41 PM	#29
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Ummm... which note would that be? If you're referring to the ransom note, that's not likely. While there may have been similarities between the mom's handwriting and the note's, the similarities were so broad that millions of people would have been similarly matched. (In other words, the handwriting would have been enough to exclude someone as a susptect, but not enough to include someone as a suspect.) Furthermore, some of the elements of the note wouldn't match what you would expect a mom to write; it made references to certain action movies that were recently released (not the type of movie a young mother would go see), and the amount of money asked for was very small. Unless something has changed since the early days of the case, the police were supposed to have found evidence that a note (I assume the one you mention, but do not know for sure) had been practiced on paper found in the house.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

3rd September 2009, 04:45 PM	#30
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	I tend to respond as soon as I see a question re my post/s so did not see the answer to this point. I will say whatever the R's did or didn't do they worked hard to be unhelpful in any way.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

3rd September 2009, 04:46 PM	#31
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,098	A dingo killed JonBenet!

3rd September 2009, 04:57 PM	#32
Kestrel Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: DM79 Posts: 4,203	Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley It's worth nothing that the prosecutors officially cleared the Ramseys of any wrongdoing last year. The Ramsey's were convicted by the tabloids. That seems to be enough for most Americans. Find a match for the unidentified DNA found on JonBenet's body and the case will be solved.

3rd September 2009, 05:16 PM	#33
ARubberChickenWithAPulley Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,152	Originally Posted by firecoins its worth nothing or worth noting? Urr.... noting. Heh heh. Fixed, thanks

3rd September 2009, 05:35 PM	#34
ARubberChickenWithAPulley Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,152	Originally Posted by fuelair Unless something has changed since the early days of the case, the police were supposed to have found evidence that a note (I assume the one you mention, but do not know for sure) had been practiced on paper found in the house. They did find evidence that the killer started writing the note on a writing tablet, then stopped and wrote on a new page. The notepad in question was in their hallway, where an intruder would have had easy access to it. He/she apparently tried to disguise his/her handwriting but gave up. Originally Posted by fuelair I tend to respond as soon as I see a question re my post/s so did not see the answer to this point. I will say whatever the R's did or didn't do they worked hard to be unhelpful in any way. In what way? The Ramseys responded to written questions. They met with police and prosecutors more than once, and went through several days of questioning. They became uncooperative when it became clear that the police had little interest in investigating any other theories other than that they were the ones who killed their daughter. The police early on knew they had unidentifiable DNA in JonBenet's underwear, and an unidentifiable palm print at the crime scene. Instead of looking into those leads, they invented excuses to continue to focus on the Ramseys. At some point, I don't blame the Ramseys for becoming uncooperative. But they sure weren't from the start.
	Last edited by ARubberChickenWithAPulley; 3rd September 2009 at 05:55 PM.

3rd September 2009, 05:44 PM	#35
firecoins Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nyack, NY Posts: 3,191	Could have been blood thirsty Jews who drink the blood from Christian children. I heard reports there were dancing Israelis seen in Colorado that week.
	__________________ NY Paramedic, skeptic, 9/11/01 Reality-ist. I am both right wing nut and left wing lunatic. Deal with it.

3rd September 2009, 06:34 PM	#36
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,071	I just want to state, for the record, that although I lived in Boulder at the time, I was not in town that week, and was at my sisters the night of the murder. Honest!
	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)