Article: Activists topple towers, claim dangers of AM radio waves

blutoski · 5th September 2009, 06:30 AM

Link: [Activists topple towers, claim dangers of AM radio waves]

Excerpt:

Quote:

The Earth Liberation Front (ELF) issued a statement saying opponents of the towers argue that "AM radio waves cause adverse health effects including a higher rate of cancer, harm to wildlife, and that the signals have been interfering with home phone and intercom lines."

Blutoskitorial:
Why didn't they just wrap them in tinfoil?

MervinFerd · 5th September 2009, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by blutoski

Link: [Activists topple towers, claim dangers of AM radio waves]

Excerpt:

Blutoskitorial:
Why didn't they just wrap them in tinfoil?

Blu! You're a glutton for punishment.

This is an excellent example of the perils of Bad Science distributed to people who don't understand the issues involved. I'm surprised they did not blow up a cell phone tower.

To put this into context: There is a consensus, developed over 50 or more years of experiment and research, that EM fields just do not do much to biological tissues except heat them. This is supported by the practical observation that we are still alive and (mostly) healthy despite the proliferation of EM fields over the last 100 years. Yet, weak studies in obscure journals showing improbable effects are the ones brought to public attention.

rwguinn · 5th September 2009, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by blutoski

Link: [Activists topple towers, claim dangers of AM radio waves]

Excerpt:

Blutoskitorial:
Why didn't they just wrap them in tinfoil?

ELF is and has been a terrorist group for a while.
Associated with ALF see Screaming Wolf

blutoski · 5th September 2009, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by MervinFerd

Blu! You're a glutton for punishment.

The timing is coincidental.

Unfortunately.

MervinFerd · 5th September 2009, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

ELF is and has been a terrorist group for a while.
Associated with ALF see Screaming Wolf

AM Radio is a really strange technology to get all terrorist about. Not like the towers just started littering the countryside.

ETA: Maybe the station was playing hip-hop or Heavy Metal. Either would be understandable motives.

Dancing David · 5th September 2009, 01:32 PM

Go Mother Nature. be sure to ride your bikes and power the earth mover with sunbeams.

BenBurch · 6th September 2009, 07:32 PM

They need to admit that they just don't LIKE the Jim Rome show.

It's OK.

He's not for everybody.

portlandatheist · 6th September 2009, 07:42 PM

How completely lame and misguided. I hope these people get caught. Unless you live right next to one of these towers, you are likely to have much more exposure to your neighbor's WIFI than one of these towers.

Brian-M · 6th September 2009, 08:42 PM

I don't understand why they're specifically against AM broadcasting. Why not FM broadcasts as well? Given the same power, FM transmissions are more likely to affect living flesh (i.e., heat it slightly) due to being broadcast at higher frequencies.

Looking at the FAQ page on the ELF website (http://www.elfpressoffice.org/elffaqs.html) I couldn't find anything about AM radio, but I think I found the real reason they're knocking down radio towers...

Quote:

The organization is an environmental group but also one that realizes the true cause of murder and destruction of life. Therefore, it is not enough to work solely on individual environmental issues; the capitalist state and its symbols of propaganda must also be targeted.

I'm guessing they probably see the radio towers as "symbols of propaganda".

EDIT:

Does anyone know any sites that actually give a reasoned argument supporting the claim of adverse health effects caused by AM radio waves?

BenBurch · 6th September 2009, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

How completely lame and misguided. I hope these people get caught. Unless you live right next to one of these towers, you are likely to have much more exposure to your neighbor's WIFI than one of these towers.

Don't give them ideas!!!

MervinFerd · 6th September 2009, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

I'm guessing they probably see the radio towers as "symbols of propaganda".

As a symbol of corporate power, AM stations would be a bit off the mark. Losing market share rapidly. With the Talk Radio format, they -do- form the backbone of the commercial hate industry in this country.

The towers are large, visible, a bit isolated, and can come down without too much danger of killing anyone, so maybe this tower was a convenient target.

But, let's not waste too much time trying to figure these guys out.

shuttlt · 7th September 2009, 07:23 AM

There was a double page spread in the free newspaper (The Metro) on my way into work this morning on the dangers, and how to protect yourself, of EMF. A different, but related article appears on the newspapers website.

http://www.metro.co.uk/mobile/articl...&in_page_id=63

Quote:

Pregnant women who use their mobile phones could be causing their children to have behavioural problems, according to a new study.

and then paragraphs of arse......

with

Quote:

Professor Patricia McKinney, epidemiologist at the University of Leeds, said the report "pulls together and interprets a highly selected sample of the published literature on the topic of the risks of mobile phone use", adding that it was a "biased appraisal".

Right at the bottom for 'balance'.

sol invictus · 7th September 2009, 10:45 AM

What kind of radical environmentalists use "home intercoms"?

Brian-M · 8th September 2009, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by sol invictus

What kind of radical environmentalists use "home intercoms"?

Quote:

For the past eight years, opponents have waged a legal battle against the towers, arguing that AM radio waves cause adverse health affects including a higher rate of cancer, harm to wildlife, and that the signals have been interfering with home phone and intercom lines.

Looking at the article, I'd guess that it's locals waging the legal battle who are having trouble with their intercom lines. Maybe the ELF is just using this as a chance to get some publicity and we're playing right into their hands by engaging in pointless discussion about it?

BenBurch · 8th September 2009, 12:48 AM

This could have been some local crediting ELF to divert blame, you know.

jasonpatterson · 8th September 2009, 08:24 PM

ELF does all sorts of ridiculous things like this, it wouldn't be surprising at all if they really were responsible. I recall them spiking trees in a state forest (an active lumber harvesting forest) and burning construction equipment near Bloomington, IN when I was in grad school. I also wouldn't be surprised if a big part of their choice of an AM station was to get people like Rush Limbaugh screaming about them; they haven't really been in the news lately.

5th September 2009, 06:30 AM	#1
blutoski Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 4,410	Article: Activists topple towers, claim dangers of AM radio waves Link: [Activists topple towers, claim dangers of AM radio waves] Excerpt: Quote: The Earth Liberation Front (ELF) issued a statement saying opponents of the towers argue that "AM radio waves cause adverse health effects including a higher rate of cancer, harm to wildlife, and that the signals have been interfering with home phone and intercom lines." Blutoskitorial: Why didn't they just wrap them in tinfoil?
blutoski Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 4,410	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

5th September 2009, 07:52 AM	#2
MervinFerd Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 176	Here we go again? Originally Posted by blutoski Link: [Activists topple towers, claim dangers of AM radio waves] Excerpt: Blutoskitorial: Why didn't they just wrap them in tinfoil? Blu! You're a glutton for punishment. This is an excellent example of the perils of Bad Science distributed to people who don't understand the issues involved. I'm surprised they did not blow up a cell phone tower. To put this into context: There is a consensus, developed over 50 or more years of experiment and research, that EM fields just do not do much to biological tissues except heat them. This is supported by the practical observation that we are still alive and (mostly) healthy despite the proliferation of EM fields over the last 100 years. Yet, weak studies in obscure journals showing improbable effects are the ones brought to public attention.
MervinFerd Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 176

5th September 2009, 08:08 AM	#3
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 5,309	Originally Posted by blutoski Link: [Activists topple towers, claim dangers of AM radio waves] Excerpt: Blutoskitorial: Why didn't they just wrap them in tinfoil? ELF is and has been a terrorist group for a while. Associated with ALF see Screaming Wolf
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." Last edited by rwguinn; 5th September 2009 at 08:09 AM. Reason: fixed link

5th September 2009, 08:55 AM	#4
blutoski Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 4,410	Originally Posted by MervinFerd Blu! You're a glutton for punishment. The timing is coincidental. Unfortunately.
blutoski Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 4,410	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

5th September 2009, 10:07 AM	#5
MervinFerd Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 176	Originally Posted by rwguinn ELF is and has been a terrorist group for a while. Associated with ALF see Screaming Wolf AM Radio is a really strange technology to get all terrorist about. Not like the towers just started littering the countryside. ETA: Maybe the station was playing hip-hop or Heavy Metal. Either would be understandable motives.
MervinFerd Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 176	Last edited by MervinFerd; 5th September 2009 at 10:17 AM.

5th September 2009, 01:32 PM	#6
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 18,357	Go Mother Nature. be sure to ride your bikes and power the earth mover with sunbeams.
	__________________ Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blast on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us.- Walt Kelly wow Mr.Philospher, you need some custard poured over your head mayhaps? -kittynh "Exhibit 1338A as to why the Politics forum is "where rational thought goes to die."-Carlitos

6th September 2009, 07:32 PM	#7
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 13,786	They need to admit that they just don't LIKE the Jim Rome show. It's OK. He's not for everybody.
	__________________ A Liberal Dose of Talk Dog is my co-pilot. GENERATION 7: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

6th September 2009, 07:42 PM	#8
portlandatheist Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,162	How completely lame and misguided. I hope these people get caught. Unless you live right next to one of these towers, you are likely to have much more exposure to your neighbor's WIFI than one of these towers.

6th September 2009, 08:42 PM	#9
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,049	I don't understand why they're specifically against AM broadcasting. Why not FM broadcasts as well? Given the same power, FM transmissions are more likely to affect living flesh (i.e., heat it slightly) due to being broadcast at higher frequencies. Looking at the FAQ page on the ELF website (http://www.elfpressoffice.org/elffaqs.html) I couldn't find anything about AM radio, but I think I found the real reason they're knocking down radio towers... Quote: The organization is an environmental group but also one that realizes the true cause of murder and destruction of life. Therefore, it is not enough to work solely on individual environmental issues; the capitalist state and its symbols of propaganda must also be targeted. I'm guessing they probably see the radio towers as "symbols of propaganda". EDIT: Does anyone know any sites that actually give a reasoned argument supporting the claim of adverse health effects caused by AM radio waves?
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,049	Last edited by Brian-M; 6th September 2009 at 08:59 PM.

6th September 2009, 09:52 PM	#10
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 13,786	Originally Posted by portlandatheist How completely lame and misguided. I hope these people get caught. Unless you live right next to one of these towers, you are likely to have much more exposure to your neighbor's WIFI than one of these towers. Don't give them ideas!!!
	__________________ A Liberal Dose of Talk Dog is my co-pilot. GENERATION 7: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

6th September 2009, 10:43 PM	#11
MervinFerd Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 176	Originally Posted by Brian-M I'm guessing they probably see the radio towers as "symbols of propaganda". As a symbol of corporate power, AM stations would be a bit off the mark. Losing market share rapidly. With the Talk Radio format, they -do- form the backbone of the commercial hate industry in this country. The towers are large, visible, a bit isolated, and can come down without too much danger of killing anyone, so maybe this tower was a convenient target. But, let's not waste too much time trying to figure these guys out.
MervinFerd Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 176

7th September 2009, 07:23 AM	#12
shuttlt Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,351	There was a double page spread in the free newspaper (The Metro) on my way into work this morning on the dangers, and how to protect yourself, of EMF. A different, but related article appears on the newspapers website. http://www.metro.co.uk/mobile/articl...&in_page_id=63 Quote: Pregnant women who use their mobile phones could be causing their children to have behavioural problems, according to a new study. and then paragraphs of arse...... with Quote: Professor Patricia McKinney, epidemiologist at the University of Leeds, said the report "pulls together and interprets a highly selected sample of the published literature on the topic of the risks of mobile phone use", adding that it was a "biased appraisal". Right at the bottom for 'balance'.
shuttlt Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,351

7th September 2009, 10:45 AM	#13
sol invictus Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Nova Roma Posts: 5,153	What kind of radical environmentalists use "home intercoms"?
	Last edited by sol invictus; 7th September 2009 at 10:53 AM.

8th September 2009, 12:46 AM	#14
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,049	Originally Posted by sol invictus What kind of radical environmentalists use "home intercoms"? Quote: For the past eight years, opponents have waged a legal battle against the towers, arguing that AM radio waves cause adverse health affects including a higher rate of cancer, harm to wildlife, and that the signals have been interfering with home phone and intercom lines. Looking at the article, I'd guess that it's locals waging the legal battle who are having trouble with their intercom lines. Maybe the ELF is just using this as a chance to get some publicity and we're playing right into their hands by engaging in pointless discussion about it?
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,049

8th September 2009, 12:48 AM	#15
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 13,786	This could have been some local crediting ELF to divert blame, you know.
	__________________ A Liberal Dose of Talk Dog is my co-pilot. GENERATION 7: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

8th September 2009, 08:24 PM	#16
jasonpatterson Philanthropic Misanthrope Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Macedonia, OH Posts: 908	ELF does all sorts of ridiculous things like this, it wouldn't be surprising at all if they really were responsible. I recall them spiking trees in a state forest (an active lumber harvesting forest) and burning construction equipment near Bloomington, IN when I was in grad school. I also wouldn't be surprised if a big part of their choice of an AM station was to get people like Rush Limbaugh screaming about them; they haven't really been in the news lately.
	__________________ Sandra's seen a leprechaun, Eddie touched a troll, Laurie danced with witches once, Charlie found some goblins' gold. Donald heard a mermaid sing, Susie spied an elf, But all the magic I have known I've had to make myself. - Shel Silverstein