Getting fired, getting escorted out.

Cainkane1 · 10th September 2009, 07:00 AM

Back in 2003 a year after I took retirement I decided to take another job. I needed the health insurance and my retirement didn't provide it. I went to work for Home Depot in their mail and supply area thinking it was an easy job.

I made some mistakes. I discovered I was unable to move furniture as well as I could when I was a younger man. Management also discovered it. After two months and three weeks I was fired. After listening to how poorly suited for the job I was I turned in my keys and during a few seconds of silence I said "ok theres nothing to do but leave". I got up and started toward the door. The HR lady stopped me much to my amazement and asked me to stick around until they could find someone to excort me out of the building. My car was within sight of the door. I didn't want to wait but I also didn't want to make a scene. A guy showed up and he escorted me the twenty or so steps it took to get to my car.

Ok did I legally have to wait? I wanted to get the heck out of there. I wasn't mad, just disappointed and I presented no danger to anyone.

headscratcher4 · 10th September 2009, 07:04 AM

No...in fact their holding you there was tantimount to kidnapping.

MG1962 · 10th September 2009, 07:08 AM

I cant comment of the legal side, but I would suggest the HR person was following standard procedure. Not all terminations are as calm as your situation. They may have had incidents in the past of malicious damage, theft or violence to another employee

Upchurch · 10th September 2009, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

Ok did I legally have to wait?

No, but it was probably legally wise that you did.

If something had happened or had gone missing in the 3.5 seconds it took you to get to your car, they could have blamed you and it would be your word against theirs. The escort is protection against that.

Of course, the escort could have flat out lied, but that risks perjury.

Seismosaurus · 10th September 2009, 07:10 AM

Hell no you didn't have to wait. They fired you, so you are under no obligation to obey their wishes anymore. If they thought it was so important to have you escorted out (lest you sabotage them in some way, presumably), then it's their obligation to have an escort waiting there to escort you.

Region Rat · 10th September 2009, 07:14 AM

But, once you got to your car and the security left, you would be free to turn around and go back into the store like any other customer. Its Home Depot. Can they legally keep you out that day? Or the next day?

headscratcher4 · 10th September 2009, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by MG1962

I cant comment of the legal side, but I would suggest the HR person was following standard procedure. Not all terminations are as calm as your situation. They may have had incidents in the past of malicious damage, theft or violence to another employee

Indeed...but these are often situations where the person at issue wants to return to an office and retrieve their personal effects. He was going to exit the store immediately. He wasn't looking to spend any more time on the property (which, given his situation, could argauably have been a tresspass). In any event, they had not right or power to hold him. For the reasons Upchurch mentioned, it was probably wise that he waited, if only to ensure that the end was all neatly tied up.

Rasmus · 10th September 2009, 07:15 AM

Yeah, what Seismosaurus said:

"We think our firing you might trigger a reaction we really don't want to see in you. So, instead of letting you go, please wait here - calmly - until we get our act together. See, we think you might want to go postal on your way out, but we trust you to quietly sit here until the moment where you get up from your seat."

D'uh.

Personally, I would have informed them about the idiocy of their plan and left.

WildCat · 10th September 2009, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by Region Rat

But, once you got to your car and the security left, you would be free to turn around and go back into the store like any other customer. Its Home Depot. Can they legally keep you out that day? Or the next day?

Sure they can. They can ban anyone they like*, it's a private business.

*provided they're not banning an entire protected class, like blacks or women. But individuals sure.

Kestrel · 10th September 2009, 07:17 AM

Why couldn't the HR lady escort you off the premises?

If the company really believed there was a risk of violence, they should have had muscle present when you were told you were fired.

WildCat · 10th September 2009, 07:18 AM

But I must admit I'm amazed that Home Depot actually fired someone for incompetence. I thought that was a requirement to keep a job there...

Bikewer · 10th September 2009, 07:30 AM

We are frequently called on to "stand by" when employees are terminated and to sometimes escort the individual from the site.
HR apparently predicates this on the reason for the termination, statements (or threats) made by the person, etc. We don't get called on every one.
I imagine the main consideration is indeed some sort of disruptive scene or even violent reaction taking place; not unheard of.
No doubt someone up the chain in "risk management" has decided this is a safer way to handle things.

Gate2501 · 10th September 2009, 07:30 AM

This sort of thing happened to me around 6 years ago.

I was working for a local business(a rather big one) which dealt with data storage. One of my co-workers found out that I have a bunch of self inflicted scars from when I was younger, and they fired me for failing to disclose my checkered mental health background. I don't even know if this was entirely legal due to the fact that they never really asked me about it, but the job was pretty lame, so I just let it all go down.

They wanted me to sign a paper which acknowledged that I had been fairly terminated, ect. I told them where to put it, and started to walk out, and the woman who was overseeing the whole process had a fit. She told me that security had to escort me to my car. I didn't know if they meant to search me or what, so I had no intention of sticking around. Since I was being fired for being mentally ill, I figured I would act the part and walked out on my own. Their security guard caught up with me in the lot and told me that I needed to go back inside, so I got in my car and left.

I don't use that job as a reference.

roger · 10th September 2009, 07:46 AM

We don't have security, but I remember one time when a guy was let go we should have. They gave him plenty of time on his own to clear out, and he was cursing, throwing computers and important documents in the trash, etc. He didn't go totally postal, but we were pretty worried that he would.

It wasn't even a bad firing, they just ran out of work for him.

As for the HD job, she's just a person with no real authority to make decisions beyond a carefully scripted process, and she was just trying to follow protocol. You get tons of silly things like this in big companies when the company tries to set up procedures to guard against rather average at best employees. No slam against HD workers intended, it's just the population at large is going to be average by definition, and if you hire a lot of people, like HD, your employees are going to be distributed along a bell curve of below average to above. So, a bunch of lame procedures that don't take specific circumstances into account help things keep moving, gives them a good way to document poor job performance, and offers legal protection ("we followed procedures, and the procedures are industry standard and meet ISO 8001")

KingMerv00 · 10th September 2009, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by headscratcher4

No...in fact their holding you there was tantimount to kidnapping.

Bit harsh. Asking you to stay is not kidnapping.

Region Rat · 10th September 2009, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Sure they can. They can ban anyone they like*, it's a private business.

*provided they're not banning an entire protected class, like blacks or women. But individuals sure.

Maybe so, but I wonder if they actually ban fired employees from the store. Wouldn't seem to make sense.

But it also wouldn't seem to make sense that they would hire a retiree to do a physical job, instead of using his knowledge and experience to help customers instead. The Lowes and Home Depot where I live have many older experienced folks helping and teaching customers. Much better than the kids who can just say "check over in aisle 12". I hate it when I need to know something, and I know more than the "sales associate".

headscratcher4 · 10th September 2009, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Bit harsh. Asking you to stay is not kidnapping.

If he at all felt intimidated or threatened or forced to stay...it would be moving in that direction.

Cainkane1 · 10th September 2009, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Seismosaurus

Hell no you didn't have to wait. They fired you, so you are under no obligation to obey their wishes anymore. If they thought it was so important to have you escorted out (lest you sabotage them in some way, presumably), then it's their obligation to have an escort waiting there to escort you.

Thats what I was thinking. Why not have the escort guy in there with us during the termination process?

WildCat · 10th September 2009, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Region Rat

Much better than the kids who can just say "check over in aisle 12". I hate it when I need to know something, and I know more than the "sales associate".

I have learned never to ask those guys anything. Even then, they insist on showing me they know nothing. A few months ago I was buying some fanfold insulation and the kid working in that section asked me "what is that stuff used for?".

LONGTABBER PE · 10th September 2009, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

Back in 2003 a year after I took retirement I decided to take another job. I needed the health insurance and my retirement didn't provide it. I went to work for Home Depot in their mail and supply area thinking it was an easy job.

I made some mistakes. I discovered I was unable to move furniture as well as I could when I was a younger man. Management also discovered it. After two months and three weeks I was fired. After listening to how poorly suited for the job I was I turned in my keys and during a few seconds of silence I said "ok theres nothing to do but leave". I got up and started toward the door. The HR lady stopped me much to my amazement and asked me to stick around until they could find someone to excort me out of the building. My car was within sight of the door. I didn't want to wait but I also didn't want to make a scene. A guy showed up and he escorted me the twenty or so steps it took to get to my car.

Ok did I legally have to wait? I wanted to get the heck out of there. I wasn't mad, just disappointed and I presented no danger to anyone.

I can tell you how it is with my company. As the CEO of an Engineering firm, I ( or by extension, my department heads and project managers) I hire sub contractors for every job.

Dealing especially with craft types ( who are largely nomadic and many of them drink or use substances regularly)- firing them is a daily occurance.

Its policy of most companies to escort terminated employees out. Its actually protection for BOTH parties.

On the one hand- you have the obvious "PO'd employee syndrome and what could happen

On the other- you can have other people starting something ( I've had guys rag people who were fired and actually cause situations)

Then theres the non violent things like an employee ( ex) accidently "slipping" or something.

If it is a company's SOP to escort terminated employees- thats good because its applied universally, if you were singled out, that would be a cause for being irked to me.

We normally have site security and HR escort people out.

Cainkane1 · 10th September 2009, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by LONGTABBER PE

I can tell you how it is with my company. As the CEO of an Engineering firm, I ( or by extension, my department heads and project managers) I hire sub contractors for every job.

Dealing especially with craft types ( who are largely nomadic and many of them drink or use substances regularly)- firing them is a daily occurance.

Its policy of most companies to escort terminated employees out. Its actually protection for BOTH parties.

On the one hand- you have the obvious "PO'd employee syndrome and what could happen

On the other- you can have other people starting something ( I've had guys rag people who were fired and actually cause situations)

Then theres the non violent things like an employee ( ex) accidently "slipping" or something.

If it is a company's SOP to escort terminated employees- thats good because its applied universally, if you were singled out, that would be a cause for being irked to me.

We normally have site security and HR escort people out.

It was company policy to escort a terminated employee off of company property but I feel that the escort should have been on hand and I shouldn't have had to wait.

LONGTABBER PE · 10th September 2009, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

It was company policy to escort a terminated employee off of company property but I feel that the escort should have been on hand and I shouldn't have had to wait.

I agree since your termination wasnt a "sudden" thing- it should have been prepared and ready in advance.

Honestly, even tho I can see your point completely ( and agree with it for what its worth)- was it really that bad or otherwise Earth changing?

Cainkane1 · 10th September 2009, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by LONGTABBER PE

I agree since your termination wasnt a "sudden" thing- it should have been prepared and ready in advance.

Honestly, even tho I can see your point completely ( and agree with it for what its worth)- was it really that bad or otherwise Earth changing?

I view it as a small bad experience tacked onto a large bad experience. The feeling a person gets when someone kicks you when your down.

LONGTABBER PE · 10th September 2009, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

I view it as a small bad experience tacked onto a large bad experience. The feeling a person gets when someone kicks you when your down.

I certainly agree and I'm sorry you had to endure it- given the circumstances, it could and should have been handled differently and better.

Region Rat · 10th September 2009, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

I view it as a small bad experience tacked onto a large bad experience. The feeling a person gets when someone kicks you when your down.

The more I think about it, the more I think you should have washed the blood out of your beard. That could be kind of off-putting.

whatthebutlersaw · 10th September 2009, 10:01 AM

Big Blue has a policy to escort everyone, whether they are fired or give notice. When I left to start my new job, I was escorted off the premises just like the people who were let go. I found it really weird (Haven't worked for any Swedish company with that habit) and uncomfortable. True, I went out and got the new job _because_ my old company were total ******** - but as a result I nearly doubled my salary and got a pension scheme and private health care so I was actually very happy to leave. Walking me like some kind of nutter did feel quite humiliating.

I have noticed that US and UK people tend to take it as natural but I was not the only Scandinavian to be miffed and pissed off by the way HR treated people, generally. (The Dutch and the Italians were pissed as well) They had a real difficult time getting Finnish speakers to stay, mainly because of crappy HR.

It wasn't very effective either. A couple of months after I started, a new starter found out the hard way - his work station was rigged to open a bunch of very adult - and loud - sites every time an explorer window was opened. People who go postal don't wait til the last day. People who don't go postal will slag the company off online and warn other people from ever working there.

Cainkane1 · 10th September 2009, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by whatthebutlersaw

Big Blue has a policy to escort everyone, whether they are fired or give notice. When I left to start my new job, I was escorted off the premises just like the people who were let go. I found it really weird (Haven't worked for any Swedish company with that habit) and uncomfortable. True, I went out and got the new job _because_ my old company were total ******** - but as a result I nearly doubled my salary and got a pension scheme and private health care so I was actually very happy to leave. Walking me like some kind of nutter did feel quite humiliating.

I have noticed that US and UK people tend to take it as natural but I was not the only Scandinavian to be miffed and pissed off by the way HR treated people, generally. (The Dutch and the Italians were pissed as well) They had a real difficult time getting Finnish speakers to stay, mainly because of crappy HR.

It wasn't very effective either. A couple of months after I started, a new starter found out the hard way - his work station was rigged to open a bunch of very adult - and loud - sites every time an explorer window was opened. People who go postal don't wait til the last day. People who don't go postal will slag the company off online and warn other people from ever working there.

Google Home Depot sucks and watch what happens.

oldhat · 10th September 2009, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Gate2501

One of my co-workers found out that I have a bunch of self inflicted scars from when I was younger, and they fired me for failing to disclose my checkered mental health background. I don't even know if this was entirely legal due to the fact that they never really asked me about it, but the job was pretty lame, so I just let it all go down.

They wanted me to sign a paper which acknowledged that I had been fairly terminated, ect. I told them where to put it, and started to walk out, and the woman who was overseeing the whole process had a fit. She told me that security had to escort me to my car. I didn't know if they meant to search me or what, so I had no intention of sticking around. Since I was being fired for being mentally ill, I figured I would act the part and walked out on my own.

You were fired for being perceived as "mentally ill" and that's against the law. That was an unjust and discriminatory firing. You could have slapped them with a huge lawsuit under the ADA. You should have contacted the EEOC and an attorney. Don't ever let anyone push you around like that again.

Toke · 10th September 2009, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Region Rat

Maybe so, but I wonder if they actually ban fired employees from the store. Wouldn't seem to make sense.

But it also wouldn't seem to make sense that they would hire a retiree to do a physical job, instead of using his knowledge and experience to help customers instead. The Lowes and Home Depot where I live have many older experienced folks helping and teaching customers. Much better than the kids who can just say "check over in aisle 12". I hate it when I need to know something, and I know more than the "sales associate".

You have an exelent point here, I have heard of danish malls/supermarkeds hiring retirees specificaly because they are better at the service and polite bit than youngsters.

The being shown out thing sounds foreign to me, different culture I guess.

I heard of one retiree at a mall, good with customers and a real benefit for the place, but often 5 min late for work. The manager the spoken to him about it several times, and at last asked
"what did they say in your last job when you were late for work"
"Good morning Captain"

TragicMonkey · 10th September 2009, 01:18 PM

Um, what if you had wanted to buy something? "Well, thanks for firing me, but while I'm here I may as well pick up that paint I've been needing." Would they escort you out the door, then let you come back in as a customer? Or are you banned for life from that store? Or could you have come back, but not on the same visit--I mean, would you have to drive out of the parking lot, and then back in? Where's the point where you transition from ex-employee to general public again?

Delscottio · 10th September 2009, 01:30 PM

I've alway wondered how much of the escort off the premises is a show to the remaining staff. i.e "this could be you!".

Theres nothing like a sacking that gets staff attention, especially when there is a very public display.

joobie · 10th September 2009, 01:34 PM

a friend of mine works in HR for a big business, and they have a room they lead people to when they are being fired that only has a door in and a door to the outside.

the problem here is that now people have figured out what that door is for and refuse to go in.

oldhat · 10th September 2009, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Delscottio

I've alway wondered how much of the escort off the premises is a show to the remaining staff. i.e "this could be you!".

Of course, it's a part of the ritual of humiliation and dehumanization at large corporations.

They make you sing at the beginning of a shift at Wal-Mart. The Apple Store does a similar ritual of clapping and "getting excited."

It's humiliating and makes you feel like a child.

Delscottio · 10th September 2009, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by oldhat

Of course, it's a part of the ritual of humiliation and dehumanization at large corporations.

They make you sing at the beginning of a shift at Wal-Mart. The Apple Store does a similar ritual of clapping and "getting excited."

It's humiliating and makes you feel like a child.

The singing and clapping bit is a joke isn't it?.

quixotecoyote · 10th September 2009, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Delscottio

The singing and clapping bit is a joke isn't it?.

Nope. My mom worked there for 2 days. They wanted her to sing and they wouldn't provide a stool so she could sit while she worked (she has MS) or allow her to do non-standing duties.

Another case of where someone probably should have sued.

Toke · 10th September 2009, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

Nope. My mom worked there for 2 days. They wanted her to sing and they wouldn't provide a stool so she could sit while she worked (she has MS) or allow her to do non-standing duties.

Another case of where someone probably should have sued.

I were on a company one week crossculture course where each group had to make up some companypraising singsong and perform it for the others.

At least there were open bar with dinner and a chocolate fountain* with strawberries for coffebreaks during the day.

*I had not seen one before and were impressed, ok.

Cainkane1 · 10th September 2009, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by joobie

a friend of mine works in HR for a big business, and they have a room they lead people to when they are being fired that only has a door in and a door to the outside.

the problem here is that now people have figured out what that door is for and refuse to go in.

I wish they had that room at Home depot.

oldhat · 10th September 2009, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Delscottio

The singing and clapping bit is a joke isn't it?.

No, there's a Wal-Mart cheer at the beginning of the shift.

The Apple Store is culty, too. Weekly pep rallies and clapping. So you go sell more iPods and crap.

rjh01 · 10th September 2009, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Um, what if you had wanted to buy something? "Well, thanks for firing me, but while I'm here I may as well pick up that paint I've been needing." Would they escort you out the door, then let you come back in as a customer? Or are you banned for life from that store? Or could you have come back, but not on the same visit--I mean, would you have to drive out of the parking lot, and then back in? Where's the point where you transition from ex-employee to general public again?

Here is the answer. It is what can be done to people who refuse to allow the shop to look at the customer's bags on their way out of a shop.

Originally Posted by WildCat

Sure they can. They can ban anyone they like*, it's a private business.

*provided they're not banning an entire protected class, like blacks or women. But individuals sure.

billw · 10th September 2009, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Delscottio

Theres nothing like a sacking that gets staff attention, especially when there is a very public display.

I worked for many years at a large government R&D lab. Having the FBI march into your office, arrest a co-worker for stealing government property, and take that person away in handcuffs definitely gets staff attention

10th September 2009, 07:00 AM	#1
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,198	Getting fired, getting escorted out. Back in 2003 a year after I took retirement I decided to take another job. I needed the health insurance and my retirement didn't provide it. I went to work for Home Depot in their mail and supply area thinking it was an easy job. I made some mistakes. I discovered I was unable to move furniture as well as I could when I was a younger man. Management also discovered it. After two months and three weeks I was fired. After listening to how poorly suited for the job I was I turned in my keys and during a few seconds of silence I said "ok theres nothing to do but leave". I got up and started toward the door. The HR lady stopped me much to my amazement and asked me to stick around until they could find someone to excort me out of the building. My car was within sight of the door. I didn't want to wait but I also didn't want to make a scene. A guy showed up and he escorted me the twenty or so steps it took to get to my car. Ok did I legally have to wait? I wanted to get the heck out of there. I wasn't mad, just disappointed and I presented no danger to anyone.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

10th September 2009, 07:04 AM	#2
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	No...in fact their holding you there was tantimount to kidnapping.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

10th September 2009, 07:10 AM	#4
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Funky Town (STL, MO) Posts: 23,428	Originally Posted by Cainkane1 Ok did I legally have to wait? No, but it was probably legally wise that you did. If something had happened or had gone missing in the 3.5 seconds it took you to get to your car, they could have blamed you and it would be your word against theirs. The escort is protection against that. Of course, the escort could have flat out lied, but that risks perjury.
	Last edited by Upchurch; 10th September 2009 at 07:16 AM.

10th September 2009, 07:10 AM	#5
Seismosaurus Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Banbury Posts: 3,550	Hell no you didn't have to wait. They fired you, so you are under no obligation to obey their wishes anymore. If they thought it was so important to have you escorted out (lest you sabotage them in some way, presumably), then it's their obligation to have an escort waiting there to escort you.
	__________________ Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal She carries beauty in her soul

10th September 2009, 07:14 AM	#6
Region Rat Stinky Cheese Eater Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sprung from Da Calumet Region Posts: 2,827	But, once you got to your car and the security left, you would be free to turn around and go back into the store like any other customer. Its Home Depot. Can they legally keep you out that day? Or the next day?
	__________________ The Optimist sees the glass as half full. The Pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The Engineer sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be.

10th September 2009, 07:08 AM	#3
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	I cant comment of the legal side, but I would suggest the HR person was following standard procedure. Not all terminations are as calm as your situation. They may have had incidents in the past of malicious damage, theft or violence to another employee

10th September 2009, 07:14 AM	#7
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	Originally Posted by MG1962 I cant comment of the legal side, but I would suggest the HR person was following standard procedure. Not all terminations are as calm as your situation. They may have had incidents in the past of malicious damage, theft or violence to another employee Indeed...but these are often situations where the person at issue wants to return to an office and retrieve their personal effects. He was going to exit the store immediately. He wasn't looking to spend any more time on the property (which, given his situation, could argauably have been a tresspass). In any event, they had not right or power to hold him. For the reasons Upchurch mentioned, it was probably wise that he waited, if only to ensure that the end was all neatly tied up.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

10th September 2009, 07:15 AM	#8
Rasmus Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,138	Yeah, what Seismosaurus said: "We think our firing you might trigger a reaction we really don't want to see in you. So, instead of letting you go, please wait here - calmly - until we get our act together. See, we think you might want to go postal on your way out, but we trust you to quietly sit here until the moment where you get up from your seat." D'uh. Personally, I would have informed them about the idiocy of their plan and left.
Rasmus Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,138	__________________ "Well, the religious community could not just make it up." - JetLeg

10th September 2009, 07:16 AM	#9
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,133	Originally Posted by Region Rat But, once you got to your car and the security left, you would be free to turn around and go back into the store like any other customer. Its Home Depot. Can they legally keep you out that day? Or the next day? Sure they can. They can ban anyone they like, it's a private business. provided they're not banning an entire protected class, like blacks or women. But individuals sure.

10th September 2009, 07:17 AM	#10
Kestrel Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: DM79 Posts: 4,203	Why couldn't the HR lady escort you off the premises? If the company really believed there was a risk of violence, they should have had muscle present when you were told you were fired.

10th September 2009, 07:18 AM	#11
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,133	But I must admit I'm amazed that Home Depot actually fired someone for incompetence. I thought that was a requirement to keep a job there...

10th September 2009, 07:30 AM	#12
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 9,537	We are frequently called on to "stand by" when employees are terminated and to sometimes escort the individual from the site. HR apparently predicates this on the reason for the termination, statements (or threats) made by the person, etc. We don't get called on every one. I imagine the main consideration is indeed some sort of disruptive scene or even violent reaction taking place; not unheard of. No doubt someone up the chain in "risk management" has decided this is a safer way to handle things.

10th September 2009, 07:30 AM	#13
Gate2501 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,377	This sort of thing happened to me around 6 years ago. I was working for a local business(a rather big one) which dealt with data storage. One of my co-workers found out that I have a bunch of self inflicted scars from when I was younger, and they fired me for failing to disclose my checkered mental health background. I don't even know if this was entirely legal due to the fact that they never really asked me about it, but the job was pretty lame, so I just let it all go down. They wanted me to sign a paper which acknowledged that I had been fairly terminated, ect. I told them where to put it, and started to walk out, and the woman who was overseeing the whole process had a fit. She told me that security had to escort me to my car. I didn't know if they meant to search me or what, so I had no intention of sticking around. Since I was being fired for being mentally ill, I figured I would act the part and walked out on my own. Their security guard caught up with me in the lot and told me that I needed to go back inside, so I got in my car and left. I don't use that job as a reference.

10th September 2009, 07:46 AM	#14
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,021	We don't have security, but I remember one time when a guy was let go we should have. They gave him plenty of time on his own to clear out, and he was cursing, throwing computers and important documents in the trash, etc. He didn't go totally postal, but we were pretty worried that he would. It wasn't even a bad firing, they just ran out of work for him. As for the HD job, she's just a person with no real authority to make decisions beyond a carefully scripted process, and she was just trying to follow protocol. You get tons of silly things like this in big companies when the company tries to set up procedures to guard against rather average at best employees. No slam against HD workers intended, it's just the population at large is going to be average by definition, and if you hire a lot of people, like HD, your employees are going to be distributed along a bell curve of below average to above. So, a bunch of lame procedures that don't take specific circumstances into account help things keep moving, gives them a good way to document poor job performance, and offers legal protection ("we followed procedures, and the procedures are industry standard and meet ISO 8001")
	__________________ May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. - John Muir

10th September 2009, 08:09 AM	#15
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by headscratcher4 No...in fact their holding you there was tantimount to kidnapping. Bit harsh. Asking you to stay is not kidnapping.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

10th September 2009, 08:13 AM	#16
Region Rat Stinky Cheese Eater Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sprung from Da Calumet Region Posts: 2,827	Originally Posted by WildCat Sure they can. They can ban anyone they like, it's a private business. provided they're not banning an entire protected class, like blacks or women. But individuals sure. Maybe so, but I wonder if they actually ban fired employees from the store. Wouldn't seem to make sense. But it also wouldn't seem to make sense that they would hire a retiree to do a physical job, instead of using his knowledge and experience to help customers instead. The Lowes and Home Depot where I live have many older experienced folks helping and teaching customers. Much better than the kids who can just say "check over in aisle 12". I hate it when I need to know something, and I know more than the "sales associate".
	__________________ The Optimist sees the glass as half full. The Pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The Engineer sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be.

10th September 2009, 08:14 AM	#17
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 Bit harsh. Asking you to stay is not kidnapping. If he at all felt intimidated or threatened or forced to stay...it would be moving in that direction.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

10th September 2009, 08:32 AM	#18
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,198	Originally Posted by Seismosaurus Hell no you didn't have to wait. They fired you, so you are under no obligation to obey their wishes anymore. If they thought it was so important to have you escorted out (lest you sabotage them in some way, presumably), then it's their obligation to have an escort waiting there to escort you. Thats what I was thinking. Why not have the escort guy in there with us during the termination process?
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

10th September 2009, 08:41 AM	#19
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,133	Originally Posted by Region Rat Much better than the kids who can just say "check over in aisle 12". I hate it when I need to know something, and I know more than the "sales associate". I have learned never to ask those guys anything. Even then, they insist on showing me they know nothing. A few months ago I was buying some fanfold insulation and the kid working in that section asked me "what is that stuff used for?".

10th September 2009, 08:41 AM	#20
LONGTABBER PE Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,865	Originally Posted by Cainkane1 Back in 2003 a year after I took retirement I decided to take another job. I needed the health insurance and my retirement didn't provide it. I went to work for Home Depot in their mail and supply area thinking it was an easy job. I made some mistakes. I discovered I was unable to move furniture as well as I could when I was a younger man. Management also discovered it. After two months and three weeks I was fired. After listening to how poorly suited for the job I was I turned in my keys and during a few seconds of silence I said "ok theres nothing to do but leave". I got up and started toward the door. The HR lady stopped me much to my amazement and asked me to stick around until they could find someone to excort me out of the building. My car was within sight of the door. I didn't want to wait but I also didn't want to make a scene. A guy showed up and he escorted me the twenty or so steps it took to get to my car. Ok did I legally have to wait? I wanted to get the heck out of there. I wasn't mad, just disappointed and I presented no danger to anyone. I can tell you how it is with my company. As the CEO of an Engineering firm, I ( or by extension, my department heads and project managers) I hire sub contractors for every job. Dealing especially with craft types ( who are largely nomadic and many of them drink or use substances regularly)- firing them is a daily occurance. Its policy of most companies to escort terminated employees out. Its actually protection for BOTH parties. On the one hand- you have the obvious "PO'd employee syndrome and what could happen On the other- you can have other people starting something ( I've had guys rag people who were fired and actually cause situations) Then theres the non violent things like an employee ( ex) accidently "slipping" or something. If it is a company's SOP to escort terminated employees- thats good because its applied universally, if you were singled out, that would be a cause for being irked to me. We normally have site security and HR escort people out.

10th September 2009, 09:07 AM	#21
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,198	Originally Posted by LONGTABBER PE I can tell you how it is with my company. As the CEO of an Engineering firm, I ( or by extension, my department heads and project managers) I hire sub contractors for every job. Dealing especially with craft types ( who are largely nomadic and many of them drink or use substances regularly)- firing them is a daily occurance. Its policy of most companies to escort terminated employees out. Its actually protection for BOTH parties. On the one hand- you have the obvious "PO'd employee syndrome and what could happen On the other- you can have other people starting something ( I've had guys rag people who were fired and actually cause situations) Then theres the non violent things like an employee ( ex) accidently "slipping" or something. If it is a company's SOP to escort terminated employees- thats good because its applied universally, if you were singled out, that would be a cause for being irked to me. We normally have site security and HR escort people out. It was company policy to escort a terminated employee off of company property but I feel that the escort should have been on hand and I shouldn't have had to wait.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

10th September 2009, 09:18 AM	#22
LONGTABBER PE Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,865	Originally Posted by Cainkane1 It was company policy to escort a terminated employee off of company property but I feel that the escort should have been on hand and I shouldn't have had to wait. I agree since your termination wasnt a "sudden" thing- it should have been prepared and ready in advance. Honestly, even tho I can see your point completely ( and agree with it for what its worth)- was it really that bad or otherwise Earth changing?

10th September 2009, 09:20 AM	#23
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,198	Originally Posted by LONGTABBER PE I agree since your termination wasnt a "sudden" thing- it should have been prepared and ready in advance. Honestly, even tho I can see your point completely ( and agree with it for what its worth)- was it really that bad or otherwise Earth changing? I view it as a small bad experience tacked onto a large bad experience. The feeling a person gets when someone kicks you when your down.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

10th September 2009, 09:51 AM	#24
LONGTABBER PE Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,865	Originally Posted by Cainkane1 I view it as a small bad experience tacked onto a large bad experience. The feeling a person gets when someone kicks you when your down. I certainly agree and I'm sorry you had to endure it- given the circumstances, it could and should have been handled differently and better.

10th September 2009, 10:00 AM	#25
Region Rat Stinky Cheese Eater Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sprung from Da Calumet Region Posts: 2,827	Originally Posted by Cainkane1 I view it as a small bad experience tacked onto a large bad experience. The feeling a person gets when someone kicks you when your down. The more I think about it, the more I think you should have washed the blood out of your beard. That could be kind of off-putting.
	__________________ The Optimist sees the glass as half full. The Pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The Engineer sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be.

10th September 2009, 10:01 AM	#26
whatthebutlersaw Dessert Arsonist Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: East of the Sun Posts: 4,037	Big Blue has a policy to escort everyone, whether they are fired or give notice. When I left to start my new job, I was escorted off the premises just like the people who were let go. I found it really weird (Haven't worked for any Swedish company with that habit) and uncomfortable. True, I went out and got the new job _because_ my old company were total ******** - but as a result I nearly doubled my salary and got a pension scheme and private health care so I was actually very happy to leave. Walking me like some kind of nutter did feel quite humiliating. I have noticed that US and UK people tend to take it as natural but I was not the only Scandinavian to be miffed and pissed off by the way HR treated people, generally. (The Dutch and the Italians were pissed as well) They had a real difficult time getting Finnish speakers to stay, mainly because of crappy HR. It wasn't very effective either. A couple of months after I started, a new starter found out the hard way - his work station was rigged to open a bunch of very adult - and loud - sites every time an explorer window was opened. People who go postal don't wait til the last day. People who don't go postal will slag the company off online and warn other people from ever working there.

10th September 2009, 10:50 AM	#27
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,198	Originally Posted by whatthebutlersaw Big Blue has a policy to escort everyone, whether they are fired or give notice. When I left to start my new job, I was escorted off the premises just like the people who were let go. I found it really weird (Haven't worked for any Swedish company with that habit) and uncomfortable. True, I went out and got the new job _because_ my old company were total ******** - but as a result I nearly doubled my salary and got a pension scheme and private health care so I was actually very happy to leave. Walking me like some kind of nutter did feel quite humiliating. I have noticed that US and UK people tend to take it as natural but I was not the only Scandinavian to be miffed and pissed off by the way HR treated people, generally. (The Dutch and the Italians were pissed as well) They had a real difficult time getting Finnish speakers to stay, mainly because of crappy HR. It wasn't very effective either. A couple of months after I started, a new starter found out the hard way - his work station was rigged to open a bunch of very adult - and loud - sites every time an explorer window was opened. People who go postal don't wait til the last day. People who don't go postal will slag the company off online and warn other people from ever working there. Google Home Depot sucks and watch what happens.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

10th September 2009, 11:49 AM	#28
oldhat Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 997	Originally Posted by Gate2501 One of my co-workers found out that I have a bunch of self inflicted scars from when I was younger, and they fired me for failing to disclose my checkered mental health background. I don't even know if this was entirely legal due to the fact that they never really asked me about it, but the job was pretty lame, so I just let it all go down. They wanted me to sign a paper which acknowledged that I had been fairly terminated, ect. I told them where to put it, and started to walk out, and the woman who was overseeing the whole process had a fit. She told me that security had to escort me to my car. I didn't know if they meant to search me or what, so I had no intention of sticking around. Since I was being fired for being mentally ill, I figured I would act the part and walked out on my own. You were fired for being perceived as "mentally ill" and that's against the law. That was an unjust and discriminatory firing. You could have slapped them with a huge lawsuit under the ADA. You should have contacted the EEOC and an attorney. Don't ever let anyone push you around like that again.
oldhat Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 997	__________________ "I predict a complete rollover in Congress in 2010 to the Republicans. Bank on it. Laugh, but file it away in the back of your mind." -Beerina

10th September 2009, 12:13 PM	#29
Toke Godless Socialist Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 7,600	Originally Posted by Region Rat Maybe so, but I wonder if they actually ban fired employees from the store. Wouldn't seem to make sense. But it also wouldn't seem to make sense that they would hire a retiree to do a physical job, instead of using his knowledge and experience to help customers instead. The Lowes and Home Depot where I live have many older experienced folks helping and teaching customers. Much better than the kids who can just say "check over in aisle 12". I hate it when I need to know something, and I know more than the "sales associate". You have an exelent point here, I have heard of danish malls/supermarkeds hiring retirees specificaly because they are better at the service and polite bit than youngsters. The being shown out thing sounds foreign to me, different culture I guess. I heard of one retiree at a mall, good with customers and a real benefit for the place, but often 5 min late for work. The manager the spoken to him about it several times, and at last asked "what did they say in your last job when you were late for work" "Good morning Captain"
	__________________ From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. -K. Marx.

10th September 2009, 01:18 PM	#30
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,112	Um, what if you had wanted to buy something? "Well, thanks for firing me, but while I'm here I may as well pick up that paint I've been needing." Would they escort you out the door, then let you come back in as a customer? Or are you banned for life from that store? Or could you have come back, but not on the same visit--I mean, would you have to drive out of the parking lot, and then back in? Where's the point where you transition from ex-employee to general public again?
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

10th September 2009, 01:30 PM	#31
Delscottio Muse Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 809	I've alway wondered how much of the escort off the premises is a show to the remaining staff. i.e "this could be you!". Theres nothing like a sacking that gets staff attention, especially when there is a very public display.
Delscottio Muse Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 809

10th September 2009, 01:34 PM	#32
joobie i don't care Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in my dreams, i am still in perú Posts: 2,517	a friend of mine works in HR for a big business, and they have a room they lead people to when they are being fired that only has a door in and a door to the outside. the problem here is that now people have figured out what that door is for and refuse to go in.
	__________________ Don't you just hate it when some uppity Black Guys escape from the Liberal Brainwash? - Robert Prey

10th September 2009, 01:36 PM	#33
oldhat Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 997	Originally Posted by Delscottio I've alway wondered how much of the escort off the premises is a show to the remaining staff. i.e "this could be you!". Of course, it's a part of the ritual of humiliation and dehumanization at large corporations. They make you sing at the beginning of a shift at Wal-Mart. The Apple Store does a similar ritual of clapping and "getting excited." It's humiliating and makes you feel like a child.
oldhat Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 997	__________________ "I predict a complete rollover in Congress in 2010 to the Republicans. Bank on it. Laugh, but file it away in the back of your mind." -Beerina

10th September 2009, 01:44 PM	#34
Delscottio Muse Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 809	Originally Posted by oldhat Of course, it's a part of the ritual of humiliation and dehumanization at large corporations. They make you sing at the beginning of a shift at Wal-Mart. The Apple Store does a similar ritual of clapping and "getting excited." It's humiliating and makes you feel like a child. The singing and clapping bit is a joke isn't it?.
Delscottio Muse Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 809

10th September 2009, 01:59 PM	#35
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9,621	Originally Posted by Delscottio The singing and clapping bit is a joke isn't it?. Nope. My mom worked there for 2 days. They wanted her to sing and they wouldn't provide a stool so she could sit while she worked (she has MS) or allow her to do non-standing duties. Another case of where someone probably should have sued.
	__________________ If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea.