"The 10 biggest moments in IT history"

[bigred]

Thought this might be fun for you hard-core geeks to kick around

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10...33&tag=nl.e550

IMO this list is a joke. Just off the top of my head the following should replace some of the far more trivial sillinesses like "wiki" and ipods, eg: ENIAC, transistors, the microchip, Windows 3.X (far more significant change than 95 as it really popularized the GUI), the CD, the WWW.....I could go on....and if you're going to list COBOL, how do you not list Assembler or C (or the whole "OOPS thing" for that matter)?

[ddt]

Originally Posted by bigred

Thought this might be fun for you hard-core geeks to kick around

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10...33&tag=nl.e550

IMO this list is a joke. Just off the top of my head the following should replace some of the far more trivial sillinesses like "wiki" and ipods, eg: ENIAC, transistors, the microchip, Windows 3.X (far more significant change than 95 as it really popularized the GUI), the CD, the WWW.....I could go on....and if you're going to list COBOL, how do you not list Assembler or C (or the whole "OOPS thing" for that matter)?

When it comes to the graphical desktop, I think credit is more due to the original Mac in 1985 which commercialized it.

As to languages, I agree with you about COBOL. Everyone agrees that it's a language that just doesn't want to die out. When it comes to language design, I'd give the first prize to ALGOL-60, which introduced Backus-Naur Form to define the language.

[Ducky]

I agree that unix and linux are big things on that list, but I may be biased what with being a professional unix engineer....

I agree with DDT, but without Xerox's GUI we may have seen a vastly different type of UI emerge in the 80's. I'd say it's more important to note the first one than the most successful one but that's debatable I guess...

[ToddH]

Originally Posted by ddt

When it comes to the graphical desktop, I think credit is more due to the original Mac in 1985 which commercialized it.

Agreed.

[ddt]

Originally Posted by Ducky

I agree that unix and linux are big things on that list, but I may be biased what with being a professional unix engineer....

As a fellow Unix engineer I concur, but I have a bit of a feeling that listing Unix and Linux is a bit double. Not to disparage Linus' accomplishments, in more than one way, Linux is "Unix reinvented". Not only in the technical sense - getting again the same OS on a wide range of architectures, where Unix has split into different flavours - or in the popularizing sense, but also in the Open Source sense. Bill Joy in his Berkeley days already sent out tapes to whoever wanted them with all kinds of Unix add-ons that people from all over the world had contributed.

Originally Posted by Ducky

I agree with DDT, but without Xerox's GUI we may have seen a vastly different type of UI emerge in the 80's. I'd say it's more important to note the first one than the most successful one but that's debatable I guess...

We could argue whether Xerox or Apple should get the credit for that - but it's definitely one of those two. I went with Apple because:
a) while Xerox PARC had the vision to invent the GUI+mouse, they had no inclination at all to get their invention out in the open. A bloody shame, as they had many good ideas they didn't get the credits for because they lacked the vision to market their ideas. (Postscript/Adobe anyone?)
b) Apple did improve on their algorithms to make the GUI really viable with a modest processor of the time.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by ddt

When it comes to the graphical desktop, I think credit is more due to the original Mac in 1985 which commercialized it.

I think the credit should go to Douglas Engelbart and the Mother of All Demos:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos

Quote:

As to languages, I agree with you about COBOL. Everyone agrees that it's a language that just doesn't want to die out. When it comes to language design, I'd give the first prize to ALGOL-60, which introduced Backus-Naur Form to define the language.

This may be true for now. In 50 years, people will recall Lisp as the most important early language.

Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains
an ad hoc informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation
of half of Common Lisp. ---Philip Greenspun

Which is why all of Lisp's concepts are slowly being put in Java, C#, Ruby, Python, etc.

The list does appear to be missing some important events. The fact that it doesn't include IBM and the S/360 is silly. Where are transistors? Where is the Web?

Hey, maybe 10 just isn't enough.

~~ Paul

[Ducky]

Originally Posted by ddt

As a fellow Unix engineer I concur, but I have a bit of a feeling that listing Unix and Linux is a bit double. Not to disparage Linus' accomplishments, in more than one way, Linux is "Unix reinvented". Not only in the technical sense - getting again the same OS on a wide range of architectures, where Unix has split into different flavours - or in the popularizing sense, but also in the Open Source sense. Bill Joy in his Berkeley days already sent out tapes to whoever wanted them with all kinds of Unix add-ons that people from all over the world had contributed.


We could argue whether Xerox or Apple should get the credit for that - but it's definitely one of those two. I went with Apple because:
a) while Xerox PARC had the vision to invent the GUI+mouse, they had no inclination at all to get their invention out in the open. A bloody shame, as they had many good ideas they didn't get the credits for because they lacked the vision to market their ideas. (Postscript/Adobe anyone?)
b) Apple did improve on their algorithms to make the GUI really viable with a modest processor of the time.

Agreed.

[Leif Roar]

It seems really odd to list 'The first “clamshell” laptop' but not the introduction of the IBM PC.

My list would go something like this:

1. Bletchley Park & Colossus
2. Invention of the integrated circuit
3. 3rd generation programming languages
4. The computer terminal with keyboard and screen
5. The release of the 3340 Winchester hard-drive
6. IBM System R
7. The IBM PC and the clone wars
8. The adoption of TCP/IP
9. VisiCalc
A. Pong

Hmm. And I still need entries for modern operating systems (represented either by OS/360 or CP/M), desktop publishing and computer graphics, and Mosaic.

[rjh01]

COBOL is definitely number 1. Just about anything on a mainframe written for business applications is written in COBOL or a COBOL generator.

A business application is any application where you get massive input / output and very little processing of the data.

[six7s]

Quote:

8: Steve Jobs rejoining Apple (1996)

Really, all I should need to say here is one word: iPod. Had Jobs not come back to Apple, the iPod most likely would never have been brought to life. Had the iPod not been brought to life, Apple would have withered away.

Had the iPod not been brought to life... this would have been a bad thing?

Quote:

...Apple would have withered away. Without Apple, OS X would never have seen the light of day. And without OS X, the operating system landscape would be limited to Windows and Linux.

And whatever else popped up to fill the 'shiny things' niche

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Leif Roar

Hmm. And I still need entries for modern operating systems (represented either by OS/360 or CP/M), desktop publishing and computer graphics, and Mosaic.

And the Web, man.

It's been a pretty cool run so far, this computer thing.

~~ Paul

[Blue Bubble]

The IBM S/360 just has to be in any such list.

In addition, I think the Atlas should also be up there.

Quote:

It was arguably one of the world's first supercomputers, and the fastest computer in the world until the release of the CDC 6600 in 1964.

And it was pretty much the first system to implement virtual memory.

[Leif Roar]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

And the Web, man.

I actually think that the release of Mosaic was more significant there than the creation of http and html. A lot of good protocols have withered on the wine because they've lacked a good, approachable and functional user program.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by ddt

When it comes to the graphical desktop, I think credit is more due to the original Mac in 1985 which commercialized it.

What about Zerox PARC who developed it?

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by ddt

As a fellow Unix engineer I concur, but I have a bit of a feeling that listing Unix and Linux is a bit double. Not to disparage Linus' accomplishments, in more than one way, Linux is "Unix reinvented". Not only in the technical sense - getting again the same OS on a wide range of architectures, where Unix has split into different flavours - or in the popularizing sense, but also in the Open Source sense. Bill Joy in his Berkeley days already sent out tapes to whoever wanted them with all kinds of Unix add-ons that people from all over the world had contributed.


We could argue whether Xerox or Apple should get the credit for that - but it's definitely one of those two. I went with Apple because:
a) while Xerox PARC had the vision to invent the GUI+mouse, they had no inclination at all to get their invention out in the open. A bloody shame, as they had many good ideas they didn't get the credits for because they lacked the vision to market their ideas. (Postscript/Adobe anyone?)
b) Apple did improve on their algorithms to make the GUI really viable with a modest processor of the time.

And Windows introduced it to most users.

So is developing it the important part, being the first to introduce it or being the most successful to introduce it?

[Blue Bubble]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

And Windows introduced it to most users.

So is developing it the important part, being the first to introduce it or being the most successful to introduce it?

Obviously developing it is the important part; the last two are 100% dependent on that!

So that makes Windows rather unimportant (in this respect).

P.s. it's Xerox PARC.

[Arthur Denton]

Originally Posted by bigred

Thought this might be fun for you hard-core geeks to kick around

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10...33&tag=nl.e550

IMO this list is a joke. Just off the top of my head the following should replace some of the far more trivial sillinesses like "wiki" and ipods, eg: ENIAC, transistors, the microchip, Windows 3.X (far more significant change than 95 as it really popularized the GUI), the CD, the WWW.....I could go on....and if you're going to list COBOL, how do you not list Assembler or C (or the whole "OOPS thing" for that matter)?

I frankly believe he inserted w95 instead of 3.1 in order to place Linux before windows in that cronological scale. The writer is probably a linux fan boy.

[Darat]

I'd say the Atari ST and the Amiga did more to popularise GUIs and mice than the original Mac or Windows.

[a_unique_person]

Originally Posted by ddt

When it comes to the graphical desktop, I think credit is more due to the original Mac in 1985 which commercialized it.

As to languages, I agree with you about COBOL. Everyone agrees that it's a language that just doesn't want to die out. When it comes to language design, I'd give the first prize to ALGOL-60, which introduced Backus-Naur Form to define the language.

COBOL just turned 50.

Quote:

One of the oldest programming languages, there are an estimated 200 billion lines of COBOL code in existence today, with hundreds more being added every day. Moreover, some 32 percent of enterprises still use COBOL for development or maintenance, says Mike Gilpin, an analyst at Forrester Research.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...guage_turns_50

[ddt]

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

COBOL just turned 50.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...guage_turns_50

So what? It means COBOL is hard on its way to become senile.

From EWD498:

Quote:

The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.

[bigred]

Originally Posted by Arthur Denton

I frankly believe he inserted w95 instead of 3.1 in order to place Linux before windows in that cronological scale. The writer is probably a linux fan boy.

Emphasis on the word "boy." With 1 or 2 exceptions (eg mentioning COBOL), that list looks like it was created by a teenager. ("Duude......the ipod totally rocks.......")

[Leif Roar]

Originally Posted by ddt

So what? It means COBOL is hard on its way to become senile.

The dirty secret about COBOL is that it's still the best language for when you just need to shovel data back and forth.

It's the computer language answer to Wolverine: older than anyone likes to think about, shows up absolutely everywhere, refuses to die and is through and through grumpy and rough around the edges. It's best at what it does -- but what it does isn't very nice.

[six7s]

Originally Posted by Leif Roar

I actually think that the release of Mosaic was more significant there than the creation of http and html.

Thanks for a thought-provoking post!

My first reaction was 'NO'... but I didn't really know why...

After a bit of thought, I still disagree - but now I have a reason

I now think that the public domain/open source concept (although not a specific 'moment in IT history') is the most significant factor in the development of Tim Berners-Lee's WWW

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Leif Roar

The dirty secret about COBOL is that it's still the best language for when you just need to shovel data back and forth.

You mean because the misnamed MOVE verb is better than an equal sign?

Oh wait, the equal sign is stoopid, too.

You mean because the misnamed MOVE verb is better than := ?

~~ Paul

[Wudang]

Originally Posted by Leif Roar

It seems really odd to list 'The first “clamshell” laptop' but not the introduction of the IBM PC.

My list would go something like this:

1. Bletchley Park & Colossus
2. Invention of the integrated circuit
3. 3rd generation programming languages
4. The computer terminal with keyboard and screen
5. The release of the 3340 Winchester hard-drive
6. IBM System R
7. The IBM PC and the clone wars
8. The adoption of TCP/IP
9. VisiCalc
A. Pong

Hmm. And I still need entries for modern operating systems (represented either by OS/360 or CP/M), desktop publishing and computer graphics, and Mosaic.

This comes closest to my list - especially Visicalc. 1-2-3 was what showed a lot of business people that it didn't really require 5 years to develop a system on big iron when an accountant could transfer his paper to a spreadsheet. To me it was the first crack in opening the data centers to the great unwashed.

But you forgot Castle Wolfenstein.

[jmontecillo01]

I do agree that COBOL is still the best language when developing business applications. You can practically show the code to a user and they will generally understand the code.

Try this with any other language.

The only problem with COBOL is that it is incapable of recursion (I think) therefore, event driven approach is nearly impossible to write. I could be wrong but as I understand, Fujitsu has a COBOL version capable of being object oriented.

[Wudang]

Originally Posted by jmontecillo01

The only problem with COBOL is that it is incapable of recursion (I think)

Not true for the COBOL I am familiar with - on z/OS with LE.

Quote:

therefore, event driven approach is nearly impossible to write. I could be wrong but as I understand, Fujitsu has a COBOL version capable of being object oriented.

Yes it's called ADD 1 TO COBOL.

[CORed]

Originally Posted by Ducky

I agree that unix and linux are big things on that list, but I may be biased what with being a professional unix engineer....

I agree with DDT, but without Xerox's GUI we may have seen a vastly different type of UI emerge in the 80's. I'd say it's more important to note the first one than the most successful one but that's debatable I guess...

That's mostly a result of Xerox's brain dead management. They funded a great R&D program, which invented, IIRC, the Mac/Windows/Xwindow style GUI, ethernet networking and the laser printer, then failed to use any of the results of the research. All of these were ultimately brought to market by companies other than Xerox, even the laser printer, which was based on Xerox's copier technology.

[six7s]

Originally Posted by CORed

That's mostly a result of Xerox's brain dead management. They funded a great R&D program, which invented, IIRC, the Mac/Windows/Xwindow style GUI, ethernet networking and the laser printer, then failed to use any of the results of the research.

A case of 'often copied - never duplicated', huh?

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Originally Posted by CORed

That's mostly a result of Xerox's brain dead management. They funded a great R&D program, which invented, IIRC, the Mac/Windows/Xwindow style GUI, ethernet networking and the laser printer, then failed to use any of the results of the research. All of these were ultimately brought to market by companies other than Xerox, even the laser printer, which was based on Xerox's copier technology.

Not strictly true . Xerox actually sold a product called the Xerox_Star^WP.

Quote:

The Xerox Star was not originally meant to be a stand-alone computer, but to be part of an integrated Xerox "personal office system" that also connected to other workstations and network services via Ethernet. Although a single unit sold for $16,000, a typical office would have to purchase at least 2 or 3 machines along with a file server and a name server/print server. Spending $50,000 to $100,000 for a complete installation was not an easy sell, when a secretary's annual salary was about $12,000 per year.

Later incarnations of the Star would allow users to purchase a single unit with a laser printer, but even so only about 25,000 units were sold, leading many to consider the Xerox Star to be a commercial failure.

Failure of marketing? Too pricey?

I was part of a Request for Proposal process that selected the Star over its other contenders at the time based on its features.