Popular new Youtube video on health care reform

Undesired Walrus · 24th September 2009, 05:32 AM

Made by a fiscal conservative too:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

boooeee · 24th September 2009, 08:24 AM

Pretty good video. I have a few minor quibbles:

- As far as I know, there is no requirement in the US that big companies have to provide health insurance (Walmart, for example).

- He makes the common mistake of conflating "public option" with "healthcare reform". He uses his brother's pre-existing condition as an argument for the "public option". But "public option" or not, pre-existing condition exclusions are going away under any version of healthcare reform I've seen proposed.

- Oddly enough, he doesn't mention another way his brother could have gotten health insurance. Given that his brother is a small business owner, if he provided health insurance coverage to his employees, he could get covered as well (it's illegal to screen out small group employees for pre-existing conditions).

WildCat · 24th September 2009, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by boooeee

- Oddly enough, he doesn't mention another way his brother could have gotten health insurance. Given that his brother is a small business owner, if he provided health insurance coverage to his employees, he could get covered as well (it's illegal to screen out small group employees for pre-existing conditions).

True, but after the health insurance company realizes they are making big payouts on his small group plan they will jack up the rates (probably so high he couldn't afford it any more) or simply decline to renew the plan altogether. And since most states have only a handful of insurers allowed to operate in them he will find he can't simply keep switching to other carriers.

In a small business one or 2 people with chronic illness can completely mess up their insurance risk pool.

boooeee · 24th September 2009, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

True, but after the health insurance company realizes they are making big payouts on his small group plan they will jack up the rates (probably so high he couldn't afford it any more) or simply decline to renew the plan altogether. And since most states have only a handful of insurers allowed to operate in them he will find he can't simply keep switching to other carriers.

In a small business one or 2 people with chronic illness can completely mess up their insurance risk pool.

It depends on the state. Most (if not all) states have a maximum "rate up" that insurers are allowed to use. For example, in California, the rates charged to Small Groups can only vary +/-10% due to health status. So, at most, he would have to pay 20% more than the healthiest groups. There are also limitations as to how much that health status rate up can change in one year (usually 10%). I'm not sure what the rules are in Montana though. Although even with maximum rates ups, health insurance can often be prohibitively expensive for small businesses.

Oliver · 24th September 2009, 09:55 AM

My impression was that he hates his brother. Other than that, he highlighted the fact that precondition policies "suck ass".

WildCat · 25th September 2009, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by boooeee

It depends on the state. Most (if not all) states have a maximum "rate up" that insurers are allowed to use. For example, in California, the rates charged to Small Groups can only vary +/-10% due to health status. So, at most, he would have to pay 20% more than the healthiest groups. There are also limitations as to how much that health status rate up can change in one year (usually 10%). I'm not sure what the rules are in Montana though. Although even with maximum rates ups, health insurance can often be prohibitively expensive for small businesses.

In California the insurer could simply refuse to renew the coverage then.

boooeee · 25th September 2009, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

In California the insurer could simply refuse to renew the coverage then.

Nope. Small Group health insurance (2-50 employees) is guaranteed issue and guaranteed renewable.

MattusMaximus · 25th September 2009, 08:17 PM

Nice video. Thanks for posting it.

WildCat · 25th September 2009, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by boooeee

Nope. Small Group health insurance (2-50 employees) is guaranteed issue and guaranteed renewable.

Heh, that explains why it's so expensive in CA then.

24th September 2009, 08:24 AM	#2
boooeee Dart Fener Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Lando System Posts: 1,867	Pretty good video. I have a few minor quibbles: - As far as I know, there is no requirement in the US that big companies have to provide health insurance (Walmart, for example). - He makes the common mistake of conflating "public option" with "healthcare reform". He uses his brother's pre-existing condition as an argument for the "public option". But "public option" or not, pre-existing condition exclusions are going away under any version of healthcare reform I've seen proposed. - Oddly enough, he doesn't mention another way his brother could have gotten health insurance. Given that his brother is a small business owner, if he provided health insurance coverage to his employees, he could get covered as well (it's illegal to screen out small group employees for pre-existing conditions).
	__________________ "I have observed that the world has suffered far less from ignorance than from pretensions to knowledge. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress." - Daniel Boorstin "When the only tool you have is a hammer, pretty soon all your problems look like squirrels." - NoZed Avenger

24th September 2009, 08:37 AM	#3
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 24,983	Originally Posted by boooeee - Oddly enough, he doesn't mention another way his brother could have gotten health insurance. Given that his brother is a small business owner, if he provided health insurance coverage to his employees, he could get covered as well (it's illegal to screen out small group employees for pre-existing conditions). True, but after the health insurance company realizes they are making big payouts on his small group plan they will jack up the rates (probably so high he couldn't afford it any more) or simply decline to renew the plan altogether. And since most states have only a handful of insurers allowed to operate in them he will find he can't simply keep switching to other carriers. In a small business one or 2 people with chronic illness can completely mess up their insurance risk pool.
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

24th September 2009, 09:37 AM	#4
boooeee Dart Fener Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Lando System Posts: 1,867	Originally Posted by WildCat True, but after the health insurance company realizes they are making big payouts on his small group plan they will jack up the rates (probably so high he couldn't afford it any more) or simply decline to renew the plan altogether. And since most states have only a handful of insurers allowed to operate in them he will find he can't simply keep switching to other carriers. In a small business one or 2 people with chronic illness can completely mess up their insurance risk pool. It depends on the state. Most (if not all) states have a maximum "rate up" that insurers are allowed to use. For example, in California, the rates charged to Small Groups can only vary +/-10% due to health status. So, at most, he would have to pay 20% more than the healthiest groups. There are also limitations as to how much that health status rate up can change in one year (usually 10%). I'm not sure what the rules are in Montana though. Although even with maximum rates ups, health insurance can often be prohibitively expensive for small businesses.
	__________________ "I have observed that the world has suffered far less from ignorance than from pretensions to knowledge. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress." - Daniel Boorstin "When the only tool you have is a hammer, pretty soon all your problems look like squirrels." - NoZed Avenger

24th September 2009, 09:55 AM	#5
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	My impression was that he hates his brother. Other than that, he highlighted the fact that precondition policies "suck ass".
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	__________________ εχΧọή MФBĪLE CǾNFĮŔMS GLФв∆L ΨĂЯMΐNĢ

25th September 2009, 09:54 AM	#6
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 24,983	Originally Posted by boooeee It depends on the state. Most (if not all) states have a maximum "rate up" that insurers are allowed to use. For example, in California, the rates charged to Small Groups can only vary +/-10% due to health status. So, at most, he would have to pay 20% more than the healthiest groups. There are also limitations as to how much that health status rate up can change in one year (usually 10%). I'm not sure what the rules are in Montana though. Although even with maximum rates ups, health insurance can often be prohibitively expensive for small businesses. In California the insurer could simply refuse to renew the coverage then.
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

25th September 2009, 10:20 AM	#7
boooeee Dart Fener Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Lando System Posts: 1,867	Originally Posted by WildCat In California the insurer could simply refuse to renew the coverage then. Nope. Small Group health insurance (2-50 employees) is guaranteed issue and guaranteed renewable.
	__________________ "I have observed that the world has suffered far less from ignorance than from pretensions to knowledge. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress." - Daniel Boorstin "When the only tool you have is a hammer, pretty soon all your problems look like squirrels." - NoZed Avenger

25th September 2009, 08:17 PM	#8
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 7,123	Nice video. Thanks for posting it.
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher Critical Thinking Education Group (CTEG) Chicago's First Skepticamp: Skepchicamp - March 6, 2010 Secular & Skeptic Help for Haiti

25th September 2009, 09:54 PM	#9
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 24,983	Originally Posted by boooeee Nope. Small Group health insurance (2-50 employees) is guaranteed issue and guaranteed renewable. Heh, that explains why it's so expensive in CA then.
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76