Benefits of Theism

I'd like to start a thread discussing the benefits of theism.

[Hypocolius]

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
I'd like to start a thread discussing the benefits of theism.

It allows you to forsake reponsibility for anything you do (I'm thinking here of the phrase Insh'Allah).

You have a nice big pretend friend to talk to when you're frightened.

Oh, don't forget all those nice fantasies about how you're so important that the single creator of all the universe pays particular attention to WHAT YOU DO AND SAY!

[bjornart]

It's the opium of the masses, and although I personally feel that the masses should be kept sedated I think using genuine opium would be much safer.

[Yahzi]

Benefits of Theism:

1. Less stress - you don't have to worry about stuff you can't control, like the fate of the world or the fundamental pointlessness of working 8 hours so you can afford a tv to watch Baywatch on. Religous people, like prisoners, live longer because they stress less.

2. Emotional protection - you have a shield against the suffering of your nieghbors. Cripples and victims are not moral outrages, but simply part of God's plan. Hence, you needn't worry about them or about it happening to you.

3. Pack identification - an easy way to tell who can be trusted and who can be beaten and robbed. All the people in your religion are automatically good people on your side, and all the other people are fish for the taking.

4. Political power - it allows you to enforce your personal or community goals even when you can't come up with a rational argument for your goals. Even when those smart-asses point out rational reasons against your goals.

5. Personal power - you may not be smart enough to argue with the literati, but your emotional sincerity can put you on equal footing.

6. Ego - God, the Creator, the Big Kahuna, is your personal friend. Not in a general way, but in an immediate, personal way. Like a best friend, he shares your views on everything. He validates your every position, backs your every move, and laughs with you when fools try act like they might have a clue. (Fools being defined as anyone who doesn't know what you know, and what you know is always right, because God knows it too).

7. Cheap drugs - getting high on god gives you that special feeling that runners and junkies live for - the magic endorphin fix, courtesy of your brain. And it costs less (unless you got unlucky and signed up for a cult). It's as good for you as sex, but without the risk of pregnancy. It's better for you than smack or crack (although not quite as intense). Like booze, it makes everyone at the party your special friend, but without the throwing up on your shoes part.

8. Reality modification - all of the above combine to allow you to corrupt reality in such a way that you can ignore the pointless random existential angst of existance, and focus on feeling good.

(Note: contrary to popular belief, theism does NOT protect you against the emotional effects of tragedy. People who believe in God actually suffer more when bad things happen to them, becuase they add on feelings of guilt or inadequacy that God deserted/punished them.)

[c4ts]

You get to be righteous with every injustice you commit. And you can get away with it though a combination of ignorance and pennitence.

[c4ts]

You get to be righteous with every injustice you commit. And you can get away with it though a combination of ignorance and pennitence.

[Peter Jenkins]

As an ex-theist, I'll try to answer this honestly and positivly.

1) Being part of a group: social interaction with like minded people.

2) People tend to help each other out simply because you are 'one of their kind'.

3) An ordered life: Church Sunday, Family home evening Monday, YWYM Tuesday, Church meetings Wednesday, Home teaching Thursday, Social night Friday/Saturday.

4) Comfort in times of crisis: No matter how bad things get, there will be a nice afterlife for you and yours. And even if your worst enemy prospers, he'll get his comeuppance in the end.

Peter

[Akots]

And you people wonder how someone can believe that Atheists are just runing away from responsability out of a desire for total anarchy.

I'm religious, and I've suffered NONE of the "benefits" you've provided, except for "social interaction with like minded people."

I believe you've confused the entirety of the religious community with what my literature refferes to as stupid ********... which is a property any human beingcan posess.

On behalf of the mind-controlled, bye-bull hurling, chick tract worshiping, anti-abortion creationist "great unwashed", thank you very much, but I'm none of those things. Perhaps in hte future you mgiht ask an actual Theist, and THEN attempt to analyze the validity of the response, instead of constructing such a crude man of straw?

[Upchurch]

I'd say one of the biggest benefits, as previously mentioned, is a sense of community and belonging.

One of the more minor benefits not yet mentioned, and I'm trying to think of a good generic wording for this, is teaching its members to deal with the world. Specifically what I have in mind is my fiancee's aunt. She's in her mid to late 40's, has a very child like personality, and is devotely Christian. When we go over to her house, she has a bookshelf filled with Christian genre books and Disney videos.

What surprised me was that she had a series of Christian oriented finacial advice books along the lines of "How to get out of debt" or "Invest in a 401k". At first I was surprised and rather suspicious of these kinda of books. I mean, what does Christianity have to do with finacial responsibility? (no jokes please) But the more I thought about it, especially in the aunt's case, the more it made sense. When she needs advice in life, who is she going to trust the most, some stranger in a suit or someone who believes in the same fundamental things she does?

Granted, in the real world, there is all sorts of potential for abuse and I've not actually read any of the books on her bookshelf. But in an idealistic sense, that's what a religion ought to do, help it's followers have the skills to cope with life. As long as no harm is done, more power to 'em, I say.

[Akots]

Quote:

Originally posted by Upchurch
bunchastuff

Yeah... that's pretty much what I wanted to say. But said better.

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
I'd like to start a thread discussing the benefits of theism.

So, when are you going to start the discussion?

[Franko]

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #1:
It allows you to forsake responsibility for anything you do …

NO … that would be a belief in “free willy”. Only retarded A-Theists are foolish enough to believe that their won’t be any ultimate consequences for their actions.

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #2:
Oh, don't forget all those nice fantasies about how you're so important that the single creator of all the universe pays particular attention to WHAT YOU DO AND SAY!

Ohhh, yes, that’s right … obviously TLOP ignores you totally. No wonder you have “magic powers” …

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #3:
It's the opium of the masses, and although I personally feel that the masses should be kept sedated I think using genuine opium would be much safer.

Ahh Yes, because God Knows that only really “smart” people believe that the sky is falling in upon based on no evidence.

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #4:
Less stress - you don't have to worry about stuff you can't control, like the fate of the world or the fundamental pointlessness of working 8 hours so you can afford a tv to watch Baywatch on. Religous people, like prisoners, live longer because they stress less.

It’s not God’s fault you have deluded yourself into believing you have “free will”. You need to face reality.

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #4:
2. Emotional protection - you have a shield against the suffering of your nieghbors. Cripples and victims are not moral outrages, but simply part of God's plan. Hence, you needn't worry about them or about it happening to you.

You’re right, it’s much better to pretend that it is the magical result of the supernatural non-conscious sky-machine …

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #4:
3. Pack identification - an easy way to tell who can be trusted and who can be beaten and robbed. All the people in your religion are automatically good people on your side, and all the other people are fish for the taking.

No, that is YOUR RELIGION. Real Theists actually believe there are consequences for their actions (unlike your mystical self!)

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #4:
4. Political power - it allows you to enforce your personal or community goals even when you can't come up with a rational argument for your goals. Even when those smart-asses point out rational reasons against your goals.

You mean like how the A-Theists have used political power to ensure that only Their Religion is taught in the taxpayer funded schools? Or how Your Religion has had all religious displays EXCEPT FOR THEIR OWN banned from government property?

Like I said, without your absurd double standards at everyone else’s expense you A-Theists are NOTHING.

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #4:
5. Personal power - you may not be smart enough to argue with the literati, but your emotional sincerity can put you on equal footing.

You couldn’t prove that your “free willy” god existed if your immortal Soul depended on it. boo-hoo-hoo …

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #4:
6. Ego - God, the Creator, the Big Kahuna, is your personal friend. Not in a general way, but in an immediate, personal way.

Whereas you simply assume that You are god and you can act however you want with no need to worry about the consequences to others.

A-Theism is just the Religion of Solipsism. You are all that exist, and you simply imagine the universe. It’s certainly easier for you to imagine that you magically appeared, than to imagine an entire universe did.

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #4:
7. Cheap drugs - getting high on god gives you that special feeling that runners and junkies live for - the magic endorphin fix, courtesy of your brain.

Whereas most A-Theists are typically hooked on the other variety of drugs (matter over mind, what can I say …)

Which reminds me – isn’t it about time for your prozac?

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #4:
8. Reality modification - all of the above combine to allow you to corrupt reality in such a way that you can ignore the pointless random existential angst of existance, and focus on feeling good.

What’s your evidence that reality is “random” (magical) fruitcake?

Let me guess, the present is NOT based on that past? (retard)

Quote:

A-Theist Moron #5:
You get to be righteous with every injustice you commit. And you can get away with it though a combination of ignorance and pennitence.

That sounds like projecting Mr. No-consequences-for-your-actions.

[Akots]

EDIT: No, wait... i'm not going to talk about TLOP here.

Instead, Franko, i'd like you to know that i'm pretty mad at you. After I got all worked up about the theist comments above, Upchurch went and posted something i agreed with, in defence of one important concept of theism; unity and helping others.

Then you go and attack the "A-Theists", ignoring any shred of decency that might be left. I don't agree with your beliefs, Franko. Not much, at any rate. But i agree FAR less with your attitude.

At lesat I have the decency to apologize after my enraged outburst. Which i wil ldo now.

[Franko]

Quote:

Instead, Franko, i'd like you to know that i'm pretty mad at you. After I got all worked up about the theist comments above, Upchurch went and posted something i agreed with, in defence of one important concept of theism; unity and helping others.

You know it is very odd, but all my experience tells me that it is the people who tend to help others that seem to also hold the strongest belief that there are ultimate consequences (GOOD and bad) for their actions.

And it's always the ******* A-Theists who don't believe it. I guess when you don't believe there are consequences for your actions you actually ACT LIKE you don't believe there are consequences!

Imagine that!

[Akots]

Let us get one thing straight, Franko, between you and me. I am not an atheist. But that does not automatically place me on your half of the playground. I do not believe that God will extend any punishment to me; if i chose to be irresponsible, destructive, and hateful, then my punishment is itself the property of being an irresponsible, destructive and hateful person. So far, almost all of the atheists whose posts I've read have been brutally honest, well thoguht out, and most importantly, often humble enough to admit when they are wrong.

I need no God to punish me, Franko. This world is harsh enough to those who seek to cause trouble without needing God's direct and personal intervention.

Seems you've alienated the non-atheist too, Franko... Please feel free to call me a-theist; it;'s really quite fitting, since I really am "A Theist."

EDIT: as for your comment that religious people who are literally fearful of divine retribution are more responsible, don't waste my time saying that a superficial act is more valuable than an honest, heartfelt expression of wanting to help. You may belittle anything else you like, but do not insult selfless acts of empathy. I have little tolerance for such criticizm.

[Checkmite]

I like Akots.

[Upchurch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Akots
At lesat I have the decency to apologize after my enraged outburst. Which i wil ldo now.

No worries, Akots. It's natural to lash out when one is attacked. Theists do it to atheists. Atheists do it to theists. Everybody does it to everybody.

In my calmer moments (which I'm trying to make longer and longer and is, hopeful, most of the time these days), I try to (1) view thread within the context that it was presented and (2) realize that personal attacks, 9 times out of 10, aren't directed at me personally but at my perceived classification (atheist, caucasion, male, American, etc.) usually due to a real or perceived insult incurred by person in the past.

In this case, Whodini asked what the advantages of theism were, so I tried to view it from a theist's point of view (i.e. my fiancee's aunt). From her point of view, and mine, these books are a good thing for her that she may not have had were she not a theist.

Franko's personal attacks are really just expressions of his anger towards atheism. Note how he doesn't even include actual names but focuses on labels.

[Checkmite]

Quote:

Originally posted by Upchurch


In my calmer moments (which I'm trying to make longer and longer and is, hopeful, most of the time these days), I try to (1) view thread within the context that it was presented and (2) realize that personal attacks, 9 times out of 10, aren't directed at me personally but at my perceived classification (atheist, caucasion, male, American, etc.) usually due to a real or perceived insult incurred by person in the past.

...

Franko's personal attacks are really just expressions of his anger towards atheism. Note how he doesn't even include actual names but focuses on labels.

You know, it's odd - but I seriously hadn't noticed or even considered that before, Upchurch; but now that you mention it, it's undeniably true - almost self-evident. I suppose the wisdom of experience is valuable after all.

Benefits of Atheism:

1. Less stress - you don't have to worry about stuff you can't control, like the fate of morality or the responsibility of loving your neighbors and caring 4 the poor. Atheists people, like animals, live longer because they stress less.

2. Emotional protection - you have a shield against the suffering of your nieghbors. Cripples and victims are JUST A BLOB OF TISSUE, THEY ARE NOT HUMANS, but simply are CHAOS OF NATURE. Hence, you needn't worry about them because they are NOT HUMANS, KILL THEM IF YOU CAN.

3. Pack identification - an easy way to tell who can be trusted and who can be beaten and robbed. All the people in your cult are automatically good people on your side, and all the other people are "TROLLS" for the taking.

4. Political power - it allows you to enforce your personal or community goals even when you can't come up with a rational argument for your goals (ATHEISM, WHO CANT PROVE ANYTHING). Even when those smart-asses point out rational reasons against your goals (theists).

5. Personal power - you may not be smart enough to argue with the literati, but your emotional sincerity can put you on equal footing.

6. Ego - Mr. BRAIN CHEMICAL X and "LUCK" r your personal friends. Not in a general way, but in an immediate, personal way. Like a best friend, "CHANCE AND LUCK" shares your views on everything. Luck validates your every position, backs your every move. (Luck being defined as everything that exist).

7. Cheap drugs - getting high on weed gives you that special feeling that runners and junkies live for - the magic endorphin fix, courtesy of your brain. And it costs less (unless you got unlucky and signed up for a cult). It's as good for you as sex, but without the risk of pregnancy. It's better for you than smack or crack (although not quite as intense). Like booze, it makes everyone at the party your special friend, but without the throwing up on your shoes part.

8. Reality modification - all of the above combine to allow you to corrupt reality in such a way that you can ignore the pointless random existential angst of existance, and focus on feeling good.

[Upchurch]

Quote:

Originally posted by muscleman
Benefits of Atheism:

I think you meant this for this thread, perhaps?

[Akots]

Quote:

Originally posted by Upchurch

No worries, Akots. It's natural to lash out when one is attacked. Theists do it to atheists. Atheists do it to theists. Everybody does it to everybody.

In my calmer moments (which I'm trying to make longer and longer and is, hopeful, most of the time these days), I try to (1) view thread within the context that it was presented and (2) realize that personal attacks, 9 times out of 10, aren't directed at me personally but at my perceived classification (atheist, caucasion, male, American, etc.) usually due to a real or perceived insult incurred by person in the past.

In this case, Whodini asked what the advantages of theism were, so I tried to view it from a theist's point of view (i.e. my fiancee's aunt). From her point of view, and mine, these books are a good thing for her that she may not have had were she not a theist.

Franko's personal attacks are really just expressions of his anger towards atheism. Note how he doesn't even include actual names but focuses on labels.

Greatly appreciated... but in this case, I think I was right to stand up for myself, and wrong to be so hostile about it. It's really impossibly to fully put yourself insomeone's shoes, but it's downright impossible if your angry.

As for Franko, i sometimes wonder what was done to him, or what hurt him so much, for him to believe in such an unforgiving god.

Quote:

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
I like Akots.

Let's not be hasty... are you sure you don't just dislike Franko?

[Tricky]

Quote:

Originally posted by Akots

Let's not be hasty... are you sure you don't just dislike Franko?

For me, it was the great sig. The only thing worse than light beer is virtual beer.

[Upchurch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Akots
Greatly appreciated... but in this case, I think I was right to stand up for myself, and wrong to be so hostile about it.

A true sign of integrety, greatly needed here.

Quote:

It's really impossibly to fully put yourself insomeone's shoes, but it's downright impossible if your angry.

Empathy. something else that is sorely missing in R&P.

[Franko]

Quote:

Seems you've alienated the non-atheist too

Not all of them.

Quote:

Franko... Please feel free to call me a-theist; it;'s really quite fitting, since I really am "A Theist."

Jesus Christ Akots, you believe in “God”? You sure as hell have a funny way of showing it (by acting like an A-Theist who doesn’t believe in “God”). If you don’t identify yourself as an Untouchable, then you are not an Untouchable.

Quote:

Let us get one thing straight, Franko, between you and me. I am not an atheist. But that does not automatically place me on your half of the playground.

Actually you're wrong about that. It would put us on the same half of the playground … the half that is betting the coin lands HEADS up. (psssst – it’s definitely landing HEADS up, ain’t you heard? The games been rigged …)

Quote:

I do not believe that God will extend any punishment to me …

Well duh! If you believe in a benevolent superior (omnipotent) entity why the hell are you going to do anything that you think He/She’d punish you for? You’d have to be insane to do something like that, and if you were really insane you probably wouldn’t ever believe in a ‘God” in the first place.

Quote:

… if i chose to be irresponsible, destructive, and hateful, then my punishment is itself the property of being an irresponsible, destructive and hateful person.

I don’t know, that seems more like “punishment” for the poor schlep who’s stuff you busted up.

Quote:

So far, almost all of the atheists whose posts I've read have been brutally honest, well thoguht out, and most importantly, often humble enough to admit when they are wrong.

You see, this is why I think you are an A-Theist. Your perception must be almost completely shot for you to perceive this.

Quote:

I need no God to punish me, Franko.

That would depend on your POV. The guy who’s stuff you busted up and refuse to replace may see it differently. (and I would agree with him, otherwise you’ll be busting up my stuff next week)

Quote:

This world is harsh enough to those who seek to cause trouble without needing God's direct and personal intervention.

You’re probably right, in all likelihood YOU are god, and The Laws of Physics are simply the product of YOUR imagination.

Quote:

as for your comment that religious people who are literally fearful of divine retribution are more responsible, don't waste my time saying that a superficial act is more valuable than an honest, heartfelt expression of wanting to help. You may belittle anything else you like, but do not insult selfless acts of empathy. I have little tolerance for such criticizm.

That’s because like a “good” A-Theist you want to pretend that things happen (people do things) based on no rules or reason – it all just happens magically and supernaturally.

All action is motivated by either pursuit of positive reinforcement (reward), or avoidance of negative reinforcement (punishment). Contrary to A-Theist mythology all people do not behave "randomly" (insanely).

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by muscleman
Benefits of Atheism:


7. Cheap drugs - getting high on weed gives you that special feeling that runners and junkies live for - the magic endorphin fix, courtesy of your brain. And it costs less (unless you got unlucky and signed up for a cult). It's as good for you as sex, but without the risk of pregnancy. It's better for you than smack or crack (although not quite as intense). Like booze, it makes everyone at the party your special friend, but without the throwing up on your shoes part.

So, as a theist, you find yourself paying more for your drugs?

Do you tend to post more when you have had your drugs, or when you have forgotten to take them?

Or does it mean you are waiting on the next check?

Just curious, if your rants are drug induced or representative of your best efforts when sober..

[Akots]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky

For me, it was the great sig. The only thing worse than light beer is virtual beer.

I only wish i made it up myself...
*cough*www.angryflower.com*Cough*

[Akots]

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes



So, as a theist, you find yourself paying more for your drugs?

Do you tend to post more when you have had your drugs, or when you have forgotten to take them?

Or does it mean you are waiting on the next check?

Just curious, if your rants are drug induced or representative of your best efforts when sober..

[deadpan]Actually, we get discounts for bulk purchases. And it's tax deductible as a charity donation.[/deadpan]

[CWL]

Quote:

Originally posted by muscleman
Benefits of Atheism:

As "atheism" is far too general a term I would like to address Muscleman's contentions from the point of view of secular Humanism - which must generally be regarded as "atheistic". Before you read on, please be advised that I am not out to generalize regarding theists (there are many good theists out there) but to refute the horrendous generalizations regarding non-believers in God Mr. Man is trying to sell us.

Quote:

1. Less stress - you don't have to worry about stuff you can't control, like the fate of morality or the responsibility of loving your neighbors and caring 4 the poor. Atheists people, like animals, live longer because they stress less.

Bzzzzt. Wrong. Morality is a very complex and important issue for any secular Humanist. Humanism implies respect and empathy for other Human beings notwithstanding - and this is important -race, creed or sexual orientation. The same cannot be said about all religious people...

Quote:

2. Emotional protection - you have a shield against the suffering of your nieghbors. Cripples and victims are JUST A BLOB OF TISSUE, THEY ARE NOT HUMANS, but simply are CHAOS OF NATURE. Hence, you needn't worry about them because they are NOT HUMANS, KILL THEM IF YOU CAN.

Bzzt. Wrong again. See the response to 1 above. Humanisim is all about human dignity. Many religious followers couldn't care less about human rights or the sanctity of life.

Quote:

3. Pack identification - an easy way to tell who can be trusted and who can be beaten and robbed. All the people in your cult are automatically good people on your side, and all the other people are "TROLLS" for the taking.

Um.... and religion (joining a club and erecting buildings in which to gather etc.) is not about "pack identification"? I don't know about other atheists, but I personally have not opted to doubt the existence of a supreme being in order to be part of any "pack". The very thought is laughable.

Quote:

4. Political power - it allows you to enforce your personal or community goals even when you can't come up with a rational argument for your goals (ATHEISM, WHO CANT PROVE ANYTHING). Even when those smart-asses point out rational reasons against your goals (theists).

?!? This is just to confused to comment. What do you mean? What would be a "rational reason" which is unique to theists (i.e. not shared by atheists as a "rational reason")? What is a "rational reason" to you? Why are you so certain that I disagree just because I do not believe in God?

Quote:

5. Personal power - you may not be smart enough to argue with the literati, but your emotional sincerity can put you on equal footing.

Huh?!? Who, pray tell are the "literati"? Are you saying that all people who do not believe in God are poorly educated? Do you have any evidence for this (interesting) contention? Strivning for rational knowledge and educating oneself in science and the humanities is an essential part of being a Humanist.

Quote:

6. Ego - Mr. BRAIN CHEMICAL X and "LUCK" r your personal friends. Not in a general way, but in an immediate, personal way. Like a best friend, "CHANCE AND LUCK" shares your views on everything. Luck validates your every position, backs your every move. (Luck being defined as everything that exist).

?!? This is just very wierd.

Quote:

7. Cheap drugs - getting high on weed gives you that special feeling that runners and junkies live for - the magic endorphin fix, courtesy of your brain. And it costs less (unless you got unlucky and signed up for a cult). It's as good for you as sex, but without the risk of pregnancy. It's better for you than smack or crack (although not quite as intense). Like booze, it makes everyone at the party your special friend, but without the throwing up on your shoes part.

You didn't by any chance sample some of those cheap drugs you are talking about whilst composing the above? Seriously, what does drugs have to do with doubt in the existence of a deity?

Quote:

8. Reality modification - all of the above combine to allow you to corrupt reality in such a way that you can ignore the pointless random existential angst of existance, and focus on feeling good.

Oh... I get it... so the purpose of this existence is to focus on feeling bad? What is wrong with striving for self improvement as long as one respects others? That is what Humanism is all about.

[Akots]

(3 posts in a row... Jezebel forgive me!)

Quote:

Originally posted by Franko


Not all of them.

Keep trying, and you'll get them all. Dream the impossible dream!

Quote:

Jesus Christ Akots, you believe in “God”? You sure as hell have a funny way of showing it (by acting like an A-Theist who doesn’t believe in “God”). If you don’t identify yourself as an Untouchable, then you are not an Untouchable.

So if i don't identify myself as a mass-murderer, I'm not?

Quote:

Actually you're wrong about that. It would put us on the same half of the playground … the half that is betting the coin lands HEADS up. (psssst – it’s definitely landing HEADS up, ain’t you heard? The games been rigged …)

Noooo... that would be the "i believe your reasoning is faulty" side.

Quote:

Well duh! If you believe in a benevolent superior (omnipotent) entity why the hell are you going to do anything that you think He/She’d punish you for? You’d have to be insane to do something like that, and if you were really insane you probably wouldn’t ever believe in a ‘God” in the first place.

I follow the teachings of my faith because I believe it is a good way to live my life. If i did not agree with them, i would quit in a second. And others in my faith would understand me. Oh, they'd be concerned, but they'd let me choose.

Quote:

I don’t know, that seems more like “punishment” for the poor schlep who’s stuff you busted up.

It's only a thing, Franko... the things you own end up owning you. Money and material wealth is security in this life... nothing more.

Quote:

You see, this is why I think you are an A-Theist. Your perception must be almost completely shot for you to perceive this.

It doesn't matter what you think, Franko. I am not Atheist.

Quote:

That would depend on your POV. The guy who’s stuff you busted up and refuse to replace may see it differently. (and I would agree with him, otherwise you’ll be busting up my stuff next week)

If he does, then so be it... I did mention that this world is a harsh one. if i brought that man's wrath on me, it's my own damn fault.

Quote:

You’re probably right, in all likelihood YOU are god, and The Laws of Physics are simply the product of YOUR imagination.

How can I be right about something I never said?

Quote:

That’s because like a “good” A-Theist you want to pretend that things happen (people do things) based on no rules or reason – it all just happens magically and supernaturally.

You are the deterministic one... it is YOU who is not responsible for your actions. You are the one escaping punishment.

Quote:

All action is motivated by either pursuit of positive reinforcement (reward), or avoidance of negative reinforcement (punishment). Contrary to A-Theist mythology all people do not behave "randomly" (insanely).

Where do emotion or love fit into your grand scheme, Franko? Can i desire to help someone, knowing FULL WELL I will get nothing in return? Since I can argue with someone, knowing FULL WELL I will never get a reasonable response, it might be so.

[Franko]

Quote:

It's only a thing, Franko... the things you own end up owning you. Money and material wealth is security in this life... nothing more.

Why don’t you prove that by sending me all of your money and/or possessions? (I smell a lying A-Theist)

Quote:

It doesn't matter what you think, Franko. I am not Atheist.

Alright then Joshy Junior, why don’t you explain your reason for believing in “God” then?

Do you also believe in a Soul? Why? Based on what evidence?

Are you a Christian? Do you belong to an organized Religion?

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If he does, then so be it... I did mention that this world is a harsh one. if i brought that man's wrath on me, it's my own damn fault.

So why shouldn’t Him and Me and our friends come over and deal with you personally? Maybe we’ll just bust all of your stuff up for “fun”? Is that how your omnibenevolent “god” operates A-theist?

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You are the deterministic one... it is YOU who is not responsible for your actions. You are the one escaping punishment.

Only to a nitwit A-Theist who doesn’t understand the first thing about Determinism.

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Where do emotion or love fit into your grand scheme, Franko?

Love is when the existence of another Graviton becomes more axiomatic then your own existence.

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Can i desire to help someone, knowing FULL WELL I will get nothing in return?

When you Help someone you always (ultimately) get something in return. Otherwise no one woud ever help anyone and we would all be selfish pricks like you and your a-Theist “Pals”.

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Since I can argue with someone, knowing FULL WELL I will never get a reasonable response, it might be so.

Like I said, ultimately there is always an equal and opposite reaction. If you have to wait, it just gets magnified over Time.

[Checkmite]

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Originally posted by Akots
Where do emotion or love fit into your grand scheme, Franko? Can i desire to help someone, knowing FULL WELL I will get nothing in return? Since I can argue with someone, knowing FULL WELL I will never get a reasonable response, it might be so.

[Akots]

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Originally posted by Franko


Why don’t you prove that by sending me all of your money and/or possessions? (I smell a lying A-Theist)

That's so cute, Franko... i said that material wealth is security in this world only; not the afterlife. That doesn't mean it's useless to me now... i gotta eat, after all.

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Alright then Joshy Junior, why don’t you explain your reason for believing in “God” then?

I've been presented with the doctrines an dteachings of my faith, and have been exposed to a large sample of people of that faith; while my parents raised me thsi way, it is required for youths of a certain age to investigate their religion for themselves, along with as many others as they can. It is then up to them to choose to accept their upbringing, or accept another faith. The family and community supports their decision, unless it is a clearly destructive decision, in which case they intervene as a family, or as a community; not as a combined religion.

I chose to stay.

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Do you also believe in a Soul? Why? Based on what evidence?

Why yes, yes i do.

No evidence, really... though it is a tiny bit arrogant to think that we ceace to exist simply because our bodies degrade. Perfectly reasonable, given the evidence, but still... are we really the end all and be all of the universe?

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Are you a Christian? Do you belong to an organized Religion?

I am defenitely either a christian or not a christian, and my religion is without any doubt either organized or not organized.

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So why shouldn’t Him and Me and our friends come over and deal with you personally? Maybe we’ll just bust all of your stuff up for “fun”? Is that how your omnibenevolent “god” operates A-theist?

Under your religion, your godess forced you to do that. At lesat it hmy god, the blame rests squarely on the shouldres of you and your hoodlum punk friends.

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Only to a nitwit A-Theist who doesn’t understand the first thing about Determinism.

Some things are determined

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Love is when the existence of another Graviton becomes more axiomatic then your own existence.

Affection can be explained as a chemical reaction evolve dthrough the survival of a species with two genders. But love has yet to be formulated something.

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When you Help someone you always (ultimately) get something in return. Otherwise no one woud ever help anyone and we would all be selfish pricks like you and your a-Theist “Pals”.

Oh PLEASE... are you really so naive and simple minded in your view of the world? Hoe many times has an act of generosity ben returned NOT with reward, but with pain and suffering? I give a bum a twenty, and he beats the tobacco juice out of me, and takes my wallet.

Where is my incentive now, Franko?

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Like I said, ultimately there is always an equal and opposite reaction. If you have to wait, it just gets magnified over Time.

The world really is a lot more complex than you'd like it to be, isn't it?

We learn to treat people the way we do, Franko. We learn it from how others treat us. Who hurt you so much that you have to be this angry?

[Franko]

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That's so cute, Franko... i said that material wealth is security in this world only; not the afterlife. That doesn't mean it's useless to me now... i gotta eat, after all.

What about the poor slob who’s stuff you busted up? Doesn’t he also have to eat?

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Franko:
why don’t you explain your reason for believing in “God” then?

Akots:
I've been presented with the doctrines an dteachings of my faith, and have been exposed to a large sample of people of that faith; while my parents raised me thsi way, it is required for youths of a certain age to investigate their religion for themselves, along with as many others as they can. It is then up to them to choose to accept their upbringing, or accept another faith. The family and community supports their decision, unless it is a clearly destructive decision, in which case they intervene as a family, or as a community; not as a combined religion.

I chose to stay.

Translation: Akots is doing exactly what I always say A-Theist do – he’s being totally dishonest. He is trying to pretend that he is a Theist (ala Joshua Korosi).

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Franko:
Are you a Christian? Do you belong to an organized Religion?

Akots: (Lying A-Theist Loser)
I am defenitely either a christian or not a christian, and my religion is without any doubt either organized or not organized.

See what I mean? Why can’t these nitwits just state what they believe and why they believe it? Why all of these games?

I’ll tell you why – they are f*cking nuts! They’re insane, and they want you to be insane – just like them.

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Under your religion, your godess forced you to do that. At lesat it hmy god, the blame rests squarely on the shouldres of you and your hoodlum punk friends.

When you start busting up people’s property for no good reason and refuse to acknowledge the consequences for your actions “the people” aren’t “hoodlums” or “punks” for forcing you to accept the consequences. That’s just called you being an *******.

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Some things are determined

Like I said, you don’t know the first thing about determinism. If you did you wouldn’t be trying to call the coin toss as “HEADS-TAILS”. (clueless mutherf*cker)

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Oh PLEASE... are you really so naive and simple minded in your view of the world? Hoe many times has an act of generosity ben returned NOT with reward, but with pain and suffering? I give a bum a twenty, and he beats the tobacco juice out of me, and takes my wallet.

Where is my incentive now, Franko?

Well, if you don’t get your reward or punishment immediately (what are you 4 years old?) then you will just have to wait, but rest assured all of your debts and credits are fully tracked and accounted for by Gravity. You may have to wait a bit for all your loans to be repaid, but they will definitely be paid.

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The world really is a lot more complex than you'd like it to be, isn't it?

No actually reality is relatively simple. Only people who want to pretend that it is magical and supernatural need to pretend that it is more complicated then it really is. You see it is only by pretending that the Universe is unimaginably complex that idiot A-Theists can convince people they are the only ones who understand how the “magic” really works.

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We learn to treat people the way we do, Franko.

Yeah, it’s my Goddess who’s giving the lesson.

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We learn it from how others treat us.

That’s True. Apparently you had one to many bad influences.

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Who hurt you so much that you have to be this angry?

Me angry? I’m not angry that you are insane, I try and perceive the humor in the situation if you want the truth.

[Peach Jr.]

The benefits of theism - hmmm...

As the child of a mixed theistic marriage and observer of how religion can be a tool of control and humiliation (my religion/group/cult is SOO much better than yours, so YOU must be worthless - I'll treat you that way!), I never saw much benefit there.

When I was forced to attend religious services with my grandparents (Mum and Dad wisely stayed away), the only benefit I saw was the "safety in numbers" philosophy. It worked for me at the time, as I was young, shy and desperate to make friends.

As the agnostic atheist parent of a very young child, I don't see the benefit of teaching her to believe in something that does not exist. Morals can be taught very nicely without a religious framework. For example, the Mum's be Good to Your Neighbor rule - a popular one in our house



Honestly, not many benefits that I can see - at least to me.

[Thanz]

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Originally posted by Yahzi


[snip of long biased diatribe to focus on..]

(Note: contrary to popular belief, theism does NOT protect you against the emotional effects of tragedy. People who believe in God actually suffer more when bad things happen to them, becuase they add on feelings of guilt or inadequacy that God deserted/punished them.)

Nifty little piece of pop psycology, however, it is not true. While some theists may feel that they are being deserted or punished, many more take comfort in their faith. I have seen this personally.

I am sure that you have heard of the little poem/verse entitled "Footprints". There is a reason that it is so popular - I would wager that more feel in line with that verse than with your assessment.

[Checkmite]

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Originally posted by Franko



Well, if you don’t get your reward or punishment immediately (what are you 4 years old?) then you will just have to wait, but rest assured all of your debts and credits are fully tracked and accounted for by Gravity. You may have to wait a bit for all your loans to be repaid, but they will definitely be paid.

Did the Goddess tell you that, Franko?

And by the way, I never claimed to be a Theist. I'm a Deist, with a "D".

[Akots]

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Originally posted by Franko


What about the poor slob who’s stuff you busted up? Doesn’t he also have to eat?

Who?

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Translation: Akots is doing exactly what I always say A-Theist do – he’s being totally dishonest. He is trying to pretend that he is a Theist (ala Joshua Korosi).

But i am a theist.

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See what I mean? Why can’t these nitwits just state what they believe and why they believe it? Why all of these games?

I am.

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I’ll tell you why – they are f*cking nuts! They’re insane, and they want you to be insane – just like them.

They aren't. They don't.

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When you start busting up people’s property for no good reason and refuse to acknowledge the consequences for your actions “the people” aren’t “hoodlums” or “punks” for forcing you to accept the consequences. That’s just called you being an *******.

My punishment does not come in the form of divine shafts fo lightning. My mortal pounishment is meeted out by a jury of my piers, presided over by a judge, and advised by a legal representative. If I am guilty, I say "Guiulty, your honor." And i go to jail.

My consequences in the afterlife will no doubt be the knowledge that I performed despicable acts, and that the crime and exploitation I executed in my life affords me no benefit after my death. And with my main form of survival so reliant on an obsolete form of exploitation, I'm about to become very very dependant on the charity of those I once abused.

or something. I dunno. I don't remember doing any of those despicable crimes. But if I did, I'd want someone to stop me.

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Like I said, you don’t know the first thing about determinism. If you did you wouldn’t be trying to call the coin toss as “HEADS-TAILS”. (clueless mutherf*cker)

No, I don't. You, sir, dare to question the honor of my dearly beloved mother? I challenge thee, vile cur. Pistols at dawn!

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Well, if you don’t get your reward or punishment immediately (what are you 4 years old?) then you will just have to wait, but rest assured all of your debts and credits are fully tracked and accounted for by Gravity. You may have to wait a bit for all your loans to be repaid, but they will definitely be paid.

Perhaps spiritual rewards inevitably outweigh physical hardhips in the afterlife... but not in this world. And not because of a strong attractor force.

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No actually reality is relatively simple. Only people who want to pretend that it is magical and supernatural need to pretend that it is more complicated then it really is. You see it is only by pretending that the Universe is unimaginably complex that idiot A-Theists can convince people they are the only ones who understand how the “magic” really works.

Where did I say I needed belief in magic? I studied the teachings of myfaith. I agree with them. Not one of them runs parallel to my way of thinking. if they didn't they wouldn't be my beliefs anymore.

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Yeah, it’s my Goddess who’s giving the lesson.

I think you mean "goddess", not "Goddess"

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That’s True. Apparently you had one to many bad influences.

Perhaps. But i refer to you with these words.

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Me angry? I’m not angry that you are insane, I try and perceive the humor in the situation if you want the truth.

I find it tremendously intriguing that you jumped on me NOT after learning i was a-theist, but only after i defended the atheist point of view on critical thinking, and your vaunted viewpoint of a faith you do not share or understand.

See you at dawn, soon-to-be-nick-named-swiss-cheese-head Franko.

[Franko]

So what is the evidence for your "free wlly" god?

I lack-o-belief in "free willy", and you have presented no evidence for his existence.

I guess that makes me an A-A-Theist?

I don't believe ANYTHING I just lack-o-belief in the Religion of A-Theism.

[Upchurch]

[sarcasm]

Soooo..... I'm guessing harmony with all people is not a benefit of theism?

[/sarcasm]