Gordon Brown's make or break speech

Undesired Walrus · 29th September 2009, 05:06 PM

Did you see it today? It was pretty good, other than the jokes.

Rolfe · 29th September 2009, 05:22 PM

He's still dead meat.

Rolfe.

Undesired Walrus · 29th September 2009, 05:23 PM

The Sun goes officially Tory tomorrow.

Rolfe · 29th September 2009, 05:59 PM

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Rolfe.

Architect · 29th September 2009, 06:02 PM

When the Daily Record turns Tory, then I'll notice.......

Rolfe · 29th September 2009, 06:43 PM

Rolfe.

Darth Rotor · 29th September 2009, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Did you see it today? It was pretty good, other than the jokes.

I read his Chicken Little editorial on "the environment" and Copenhagen meeting in Newsweek.

He's not good at selling his platform, at least not on this side of the pond.

DR

funk de fino · 30th September 2009, 01:41 AM

England has turned against him. He is out.

They may have a chance if he hands over to some younger, good looking, charming, english MP. Most of the UK boards I frequent always seem to mention his dourness, that he is a Scot and not pleasing on the eye.

The fact the Sun is now turning Tory says more about the Sun than it does about anyone else. Those of us who were not well off and who lived through the Thatcher years (especially in Scotland), know what is coming.

Good luck to em!

funk de fino · 30th September 2009, 01:42 AM

That little slimeball Mandelson gave a great speech I thought.

Darat · 30th September 2009, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by funk de fino

England has turned against him. He is out.

They may have a chance if he hands over to some younger, good looking, charming, english MP. Most of the UK boards I frequent always seem to mention his dourness, that he is a Scot and not pleasing on the eye.

The fact the Sun is now turning Tory says more about the Sun than it does about anyone else. Those of us who were not well off and who lived through the Thatcher years (especially in Scotland), know what is coming.

Good luck to em!

And especially those in the north of England, the Midlands, the south west of England, Wales and Northern Ireland know what is coming.

Darat · 30th September 2009, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by funk de fino

That little slimeball Mandelson gave a great speech I thought.

That's because Mandelson does not feel any shame! (And I mean that both positively and negatively.)

As for Mr Brown - I agree dead meat, people now have the idea in their head we "need a change", which we do but not to a Cameron UK.

richardm · 30th September 2009, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

It was pretty good

It was pretty good. It was also pretty depressing, I thought, in a number of ways. Firstly, there's the realisation that no matter what he says it's not going to be enough to get Labour in again. Secondly, the realisation that he knows it's not going to be enough, which is why we're suddenly getting pledges to hold referendums on electoral reform and sorting out the House of Lords once and for all. All this stuff used to be anathema, but now he can trot out this and all sorts of other populist stuff in the hope of not being totally wiped out in the general election, safe in the knowledge that he's never going to be called on to actually do it.

It was a bit like watching the Lib Dems, frankly. And that always makes me sad, too.

funk de fino · 30th September 2009, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

That's because Mandelson does not feel any shame! (And I mean that both positively and negatively.)

As for Mr Brown - I agree dead meat, people now have the idea in their head we "need a change", which we do but not to a Cameron UK.

It will be the "worst of a bad bunch" in a way. It is already making me sad thinking about it.

As bad as Labour can be, as messed up as the economy is, as much as I thought Iraq was wrong, the Labour govt have done some very good things that the Tories would never have done.

Some people cannot see the woods for the trees.

richardm · 30th September 2009, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by funk de fino

the Labour govt have done some very good things that the Tories would never have done.

So true. And a lot of the things that they're pilloried for - like the wars in the Middle East - were supported by the Tories when they got under way, so we might assume we'd be in a similar position on that front.

Darat · 30th September 2009, 03:51 AM

For me the big two for the last 10 years of so of Labour was the overall reverse in the decline of the NHS and schools.

People really do seem to have forgotten the horror stories of kids being injured in schools that were literally falling down, schools being shut in winter (regularly) because the heating just didn't work. Never mind the acute and chronic problems in the NHS largely as a result of underfunding by the Tories. Those are the two areas more than any other I fear for under the coming Tory government.

Thankfully for the likes of Wales and Scotland (and to a lesser degree, NI) they will be partially shielded from the Tories this time. Never mind London and the "Home Counties" will be Ok....

richardm · 30th September 2009, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

reverse in the decline of the NHS ... Never mind the acute and chronic problems in the NHS largely as a result of underfunding by the Tories.

People are prepared to overlook so much. If you're looking through the Sun's lens, the only mention the NHS gets is in terms of the increase in MRSA cases.

Francesca R · 30th September 2009, 04:26 AM

Mostly people were prepared to overlook Brown profligacy masquerading as "prudence". As in, the economy with the longest unbroken stretch of growth (until last year) now faces a bigger rise in public debt than the rest of the G7. That's really quite a trick.

Sorry, the NHS will not be "safe" (as in, getting anything like the same ramp-up in spending it had under Labour) with any government.

Rolfe · 30th September 2009, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by funk de fino

The fact the Sun is now turning Tory says more about the Sun than it does about anyone else.

Did you see MacWhirter on Newsnicht last night? He made a good point, that the actual influence wielded by the Sun may well be negligible, but they're good at jumping on (and off) bandwagons. The reason the defection of the Sun is such bad news for Labour is that it shows the Sun decision-makers have concluded that Labour is going to lose. It's just a rats-and-sinking-ships thing, but it's still good evidence the ship is sinking.

Rolfe.

Francesca R · 30th September 2009, 04:42 AM

I was thinking of the sun as a canary in a coal mine. But a rat on a ship is better.

Darat · 30th September 2009, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by richardm

People are prepared to overlook so much. If you're looking through the Sun's lens, the only mention the NHS gets is in terms of the increase in MRSA cases.

That sort of reporting is beyond the pale.

funk de fino · 30th September 2009, 06:02 AM

If the southern based parties manage to block a referendum, and we get a Tory govt in Westminster, then I will be applying for a move overseas with my work for a few years.

Francesca R · 30th September 2009, 06:30 AM

Make sure you get out properly to avoid the "ordinarily resident" tax liability. Probably best to sell your property (although prices are on the floor). I hear Dubai is best for no taxes. Not so rainy either.

Arcade22 · 30th September 2009, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by funk de fino

If the southern based parties manage to block a referendum, and we get a Tory govt in Westminster, then I will be applying for a move overseas with my work for a few years.

Why would you do this? I don't like the Social Democrats but i wont move to another country (unless they something really bad) if they win the next election.

Lothian · 30th September 2009, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by funk de fino

If the southern based parties manage to block a referendum, and we get a Tory govt in Westminster, then I will be applying for a move overseas with my work for a few years.

If you are the last out, can you remember to turn off the lights.

Francesca R · 30th September 2009, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Why would you do this?

Usually this is just code (bluster) for "I don't agree with the government." I suspect the actual number of such political exiles from the UK is really small. The typical refrain of Tory Toffs (check with Darat

) shortly before John Major was booted out, was that all the entrepreneurs would leave the country if "the socialists" won on 1 May 97.

Darat · 30th September 2009, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by Lothian

If you are the last out, can you remember to turn of the lights.

Not worth the effort - it's a low-energy bulb.

Francesca R · 30th September 2009, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Lothian

If you are the last out, can you remember to turn of the lights.

In case anyone thinks you thought this one up . . .

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_z5hT1P0X79...20/kinnock.jpg

(1992 Sun election day front page)

Lothian · 30th September 2009, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Francesca R

In case anyone thinks you thought this one up . . .

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_z5hT1P0X79...20/kinnock.jpg

(1992 Sun election day front page)

Wow that is uncanny that they should come up with something so similar.

richardm · 30th September 2009, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Francesca R

In case anyone thinks you thought this one up . . .

You mean it was The Sun wot wrote it?

funk de fino · 30th September 2009, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Francesca R

Make sure you get out properly to avoid the "ordinarily resident" tax liability. Probably best to sell your property (although prices are on the floor). I hear Dubai is best for no taxes. Not so rainy either.

It would be an ex pat position and Dubai would be one option. We are a global company with lots of locations.

funk de fino · 30th September 2009, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Why would you do this? I don't like the Social Democrats but i wont move to another country (unless they something really bad) if they win the next election.

It's not so much do not like. I lived under the last Tory govt. I never want to do it again. It is more a hatred thing.

Originally Posted by Lothian

If you are the last out, can you remember to turn off the lights.

I remember that well. They reckon it did turn it back the Tories way.

Originally Posted by Francesca R

Usually this is just code (bluster) for "I don't agree with the government." I suspect the actual number of such political exiles from the UK is really small. The typical refrain of Tory Toffs (check with Darat

) shortly before John Major was booted out, was that all the entrepreneurs would leave the country if "the socialists" won on 1 May 97.

I have had the option previous to leave. I want to stay and see if we get a referendum first. If it is blocked due to Westmninster interference and we have Tory govt in Westminster then I will not stay here. It's not bluster, it would also be a good career move.

Rolfe · 30th September 2009, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by funk de fino

If the southern based parties manage to block a referendum, and we get a Tory govt in Westminster, then I will be applying for a move overseas with my work for a few years.

I'm not going anywhere. I'll put up with it. I just got back (three years ago) after having lived in England for nearly 25 years, and I'm back to stay.

I still hope to live to celebrate Independence Day here. If I was jumping ship for political reasons it would be Ireland or Norway, but there's all that "hills of home" baggage that's extremely difficult to shake, even if you want to.

I hope we get the referendum next year. If I hear one more smarmy pundit belittle the Scots as being uniquely incompetent and incapable of running our own affairs, I might be tempted to shove his teeth down his throat.

Rolfe.

Darat · 30th September 2009, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

...snip... If I hear one more smarmy pundit belittle the Scots as being uniquely incompetent and incapable of running our own affairs, I might be tempted to shove his teeth down his throat.

Rolfe.

So you think Gordon Brown is doing a competent job, well I never.....

Lothian · 30th September 2009, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

So you think Gordon Brown is doing a competent job, well I never.....

Her post was 'Scots'; the plural. I think she means Blair as well.

Rolfe · 30th September 2009, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

So you think Gordon Brown is doing a competent job, well I never.....

Now that's as neat an example of begging the question as I've ever seen.

It's a matter of constant astonishment how the same Tories can in one breath wail and moan about the number of Scots in the cabinet, and how England is being run by a lot of Jocks and all the rest, and then in the next breath declare that we're all a bunch of incompetent failed town councillors who shouldn't be allowed to run the proverbial whelk stand.

Labour, on the other hand, just boast about the former while maintaining the Tory line on the latter, again without apparent irony.

Of course Scotland would be better off if all her competent politicians worked at home for the good of Scotland and gave up this game of wanting to be "big beasts" at Westminster. Whether I'd include Gordon Brown in that category is another matter though.

Rolfe.

Lothian · 30th September 2009, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Of course Scotland would be better off if all her competent politicians worked at home for the good of Scotland and gave up this game of wanting to be "big beasts" at Westminster. Whether I'd include Gordon Brown in that category is another matter though.

Rolfe.

In a similar way are you looking to send back Ian Mckee, Mike Russell and Christine Grahame ?

Arcade22 · 30th September 2009, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by funk de fino

It's not so much do not like. I lived under the last Tory govt. I never want to do it again. It is more a hatred thing.

So whats so bad about them? "Tories" are conservatives right?

Lothian · 30th September 2009, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

So whats so bad about them? "Tories" are conservatives right?

Tories are Conservatives Party, motto: Robbing the poor to pay the rich

Francesca R · 30th September 2009, 09:45 AM

Apparently they are much worse than this lot

Lothian · 30th September 2009, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Francesca R

Apparently they are much worse than this lot

Are you not a Tory now you have abandoned the workers struggle to jump on the bourgeoisie bus.

29th September 2009, 05:06 PM	#1
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	Gordon Brown's make or break speech Did you see it today? It was pretty good, other than the jokes.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

29th September 2009, 05:22 PM	#2
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 19,388	He's still dead meat. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The thing about medicine is, that it all comes down to the numbers." - Dr. Stephen Franklin, Interludes and Examinations. "To give Rolfe his due, I think this is a good example to everyone of what can happen if we fail to get a proper diagnosis and begin treating on symptoms alone--a big mistake, as shown here." - "Snoopy" on H'pathy Forums, apparently abjuring the very fundamentals of homoeopathy after she'd just allowed a young mother with Addison's disease to die.

29th September 2009, 05:23 PM	#3
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	The Sun goes officially Tory tomorrow.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

29th September 2009, 05:59 PM	#4
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 19,388	Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The thing about medicine is, that it all comes down to the numbers." - Dr. Stephen Franklin, Interludes and Examinations. "To give Rolfe his due, I think this is a good example to everyone of what can happen if we fail to get a proper diagnosis and begin treating on symptoms alone--a big mistake, as shown here." - "Snoopy" on H'pathy Forums, apparently abjuring the very fundamentals of homoeopathy after she'd just allowed a young mother with Addison's disease to die.

29th September 2009, 06:02 PM	#5
Architect Chief Punkah Wallah Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: UK Posts: 5,913	When the Daily Record turns Tory, then I'll notice.......
	__________________ GodisEnergy: This coming from a bus tour driver ,where's your structural engineering degree. Architect: I'll raise you two architecture degrees, ARB registration, RIBA membership, and 15 years experience in tall buildings.

29th September 2009, 06:43 PM	#6
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 19,388	Rolfe.
	__________________ "The thing about medicine is, that it all comes down to the numbers." - Dr. Stephen Franklin, Interludes and Examinations. "To give Rolfe his due, I think this is a good example to everyone of what can happen if we fail to get a proper diagnosis and begin treating on symptoms alone--a big mistake, as shown here." - "Snoopy" on H'pathy Forums, apparently abjuring the very fundamentals of homoeopathy after she'd just allowed a young mother with Addison's disease to die.

29th September 2009, 08:52 PM	#7
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,812	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus Did you see it today? It was pretty good, other than the jokes. I read his Chicken Little editorial on "the environment" and Copenhagen meeting in Newsweek. He's not good at selling his platform, at least not on this side of the pond. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon

30th September 2009, 01:41 AM	#8
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 6,075	England has turned against him. He is out. They may have a chance if he hands over to some younger, good looking, charming, english MP. Most of the UK boards I frequent always seem to mention his dourness, that he is a Scot and not pleasing on the eye. The fact the Sun is now turning Tory says more about the Sun than it does about anyone else. Those of us who were not well off and who lived through the Thatcher years (especially in Scotland), know what is coming. Good luck to em!
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

30th September 2009, 01:42 AM	#9
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 6,075	That little slimeball Mandelson gave a great speech I thought.
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

30th September 2009, 01:49 AM	#10
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 47,705	Originally Posted by funk de fino England has turned against him. He is out. They may have a chance if he hands over to some younger, good looking, charming, english MP. Most of the UK boards I frequent always seem to mention his dourness, that he is a Scot and not pleasing on the eye. The fact the Sun is now turning Tory says more about the Sun than it does about anyone else. Those of us who were not well off and who lived through the Thatcher years (especially in Scotland), know what is coming. Good luck to em! And especially those in the north of England, the Midlands, the south west of England, Wales and Northern Ireland know what is coming.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

30th September 2009, 01:50 AM	#11
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 47,705	Originally Posted by funk de fino That little slimeball Mandelson gave a great speech I thought. That's because Mandelson does not feel any shame! (And I mean that both positively and negatively.) As for Mr Brown - I agree dead meat, people now have the idea in their head we "need a change", which we do but not to a Cameron UK.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

30th September 2009, 02:39 AM	#12
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,550	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus It was pretty good It was pretty good. It was also pretty depressing, I thought, in a number of ways. Firstly, there's the realisation that no matter what he says it's not going to be enough to get Labour in again. Secondly, the realisation that he knows it's not going to be enough, which is why we're suddenly getting pledges to hold referendums on electoral reform and sorting out the House of Lords once and for all. All this stuff used to be anathema, but now he can trot out this and all sorts of other populist stuff in the hope of not being totally wiped out in the general election, safe in the knowledge that he's never going to be called on to actually do it. It was a bit like watching the Lib Dems, frankly. And that always makes me sad, too.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,550	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

30th September 2009, 03:25 AM	#13
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 6,075	Originally Posted by Darat That's because Mandelson does not feel any shame! (And I mean that both positively and negatively.) As for Mr Brown - I agree dead meat, people now have the idea in their head we "need a change", which we do but not to a Cameron UK. It will be the "worst of a bad bunch" in a way. It is already making me sad thinking about it. As bad as Labour can be, as messed up as the economy is, as much as I thought Iraq was wrong, the Labour govt have done some very good things that the Tories would never have done. Some people cannot see the woods for the trees.
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

30th September 2009, 03:29 AM	#14
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,550	Originally Posted by funk de fino the Labour govt have done some very good things that the Tories would never have done. So true. And a lot of the things that they're pilloried for - like the wars in the Middle East - were supported by the Tories when they got under way, so we might assume we'd be in a similar position on that front.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,550	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

30th September 2009, 03:51 AM	#15
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 47,705	For me the big two for the last 10 years of so of Labour was the overall reverse in the decline of the NHS and schools. People really do seem to have forgotten the horror stories of kids being injured in schools that were literally falling down, schools being shut in winter (regularly) because the heating just didn't work. Never mind the acute and chronic problems in the NHS largely as a result of underfunding by the Tories. Those are the two areas more than any other I fear for under the coming Tory government. Thankfully for the likes of Wales and Scotland (and to a lesser degree, NI) they will be partially shielded from the Tories this time. Never mind London and the "Home Counties" will be Ok....
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

30th September 2009, 04:17 AM	#16
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,550	Originally Posted by Darat reverse in the decline of the NHS ... Never mind the acute and chronic problems in the NHS largely as a result of underfunding by the Tories. People are prepared to overlook so much. If you're looking through the Sun's lens, the only mention the NHS gets is in terms of the increase in MRSA cases.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,550	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously. Last edited by richardm; 30th September 2009 at 04:18 AM.

30th September 2009, 04:26 AM	#17
Francesca R Girl Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London EC1 Posts: 8,115	Mostly people were prepared to overlook Brown profligacy masquerading as "prudence". As in, the economy with the longest unbroken stretch of growth (until last year) now faces a bigger rise in public debt than the rest of the G7. That's really quite a trick. Sorry, the NHS will not be "safe" (as in, getting anything like the same ramp-up in spending it had under Labour) with any government.

30th September 2009, 04:31 AM	#18
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 19,388	Originally Posted by funk de fino The fact the Sun is now turning Tory says more about the Sun than it does about anyone else. Did you see MacWhirter on Newsnicht last night? He made a good point, that the actual influence wielded by the Sun may well be negligible, but they're good at jumping on (and off) bandwagons. The reason the defection of the Sun is such bad news for Labour is that it shows the Sun decision-makers have concluded that Labour is going to lose. It's just a rats-and-sinking-ships thing, but it's still good evidence the ship is sinking. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The thing about medicine is, that it all comes down to the numbers." - Dr. Stephen Franklin, Interludes and Examinations. "To give Rolfe his due, I think this is a good example to everyone of what can happen if we fail to get a proper diagnosis and begin treating on symptoms alone--a big mistake, as shown here." - "Snoopy" on H'pathy Forums, apparently abjuring the very fundamentals of homoeopathy after she'd just allowed a young mother with Addison's disease to die.

30th September 2009, 04:42 AM	#19
Francesca R Girl Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London EC1 Posts: 8,115	I was thinking of the sun as a canary in a coal mine. But a rat on a ship is better.

30th September 2009, 04:42 AM	#20
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 47,705	Originally Posted by richardm People are prepared to overlook so much. If you're looking through the Sun's lens, the only mention the NHS gets is in terms of the increase in MRSA cases. That sort of reporting is beyond the pale.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

30th September 2009, 06:02 AM	#21
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 6,075	If the southern based parties manage to block a referendum, and we get a Tory govt in Westminster, then I will be applying for a move overseas with my work for a few years.
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

30th September 2009, 06:30 AM	#22
Francesca R Girl Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London EC1 Posts: 8,115	Make sure you get out properly to avoid the "ordinarily resident" tax liability. Probably best to sell your property (although prices are on the floor). I hear Dubai is best for no taxes. Not so rainy either.

30th September 2009, 06:40 AM	#23
Arcade22 Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Västerbotten, Sweden Posts: 543	Originally Posted by funk de fino If the southern based parties manage to block a referendum, and we get a Tory govt in Westminster, then I will be applying for a move overseas with my work for a few years. Why would you do this? I don't like the Social Democrats but i wont move to another country (unless they something really bad) if they win the next election.

30th September 2009, 06:49 AM	#24
Lothian (edited for breach of rule 10) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A small, blue-green world in one of the less fashionable sectors of the galaxy Posts: 7,033	Originally Posted by funk de fino If the southern based parties manage to block a referendum, and we get a Tory govt in Westminster, then I will be applying for a move overseas with my work for a few years. If you are the last out, can you remember to turn off the lights.
	__________________ "When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly half way between. It is possible for one side simply to be wrong." Richard Dawkins and Jerry Coyne JREF Forum Campaign Group Last edited by Lothian; 30th September 2009 at 07:06 AM.

30th September 2009, 06:51 AM	#25
Francesca R Girl Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London EC1 Posts: 8,115	Originally Posted by Arcade22 Why would you do this? Usually this is just code (bluster) for "I don't agree with the government." I suspect the actual number of such political exiles from the UK is really small. The typical refrain of Tory Toffs (check with Darat ) shortly before John Major was booted out, was that all the entrepreneurs would leave the country if "the socialists" won on 1 May 97.

30th September 2009, 06:52 AM	#26
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 47,705	Originally Posted by Lothian If you are the last out, can you remember to turn of the lights. Not worth the effort - it's a low-energy bulb.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

30th September 2009, 06:55 AM	#27
Francesca R Girl Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London EC1 Posts: 8,115	Originally Posted by Lothian If you are the last out, can you remember to turn of the lights. In case anyone thinks you thought this one up . . . http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_z5hT1P0X79...20/kinnock.jpg (1992 Sun election day front page)

30th September 2009, 07:09 AM	#28
Lothian (edited for breach of rule 10) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A small, blue-green world in one of the less fashionable sectors of the galaxy Posts: 7,033	Originally Posted by Francesca R In case anyone thinks you thought this one up . . . http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_z5hT1P0X79...20/kinnock.jpg (1992 Sun election day front page) Wow that is uncanny that they should come up with something so similar.
	__________________ "When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly half way between. It is possible for one side simply to be wrong." Richard Dawkins and Jerry Coyne JREF Forum Campaign Group

30th September 2009, 07:25 AM	#29
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,550	Originally Posted by Francesca R In case anyone thinks you thought this one up . . . You mean it was The Sun wot wrote it?
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,550	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

30th September 2009, 07:49 AM	#30
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 6,075	Originally Posted by Francesca R Make sure you get out properly to avoid the "ordinarily resident" tax liability. Probably best to sell your property (although prices are on the floor). I hear Dubai is best for no taxes. Not so rainy either. It would be an ex pat position and Dubai would be one option. We are a global company with lots of locations.
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

30th September 2009, 07:55 AM	#31
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 6,075	Originally Posted by Arcade22 Why would you do this? I don't like the Social Democrats but i wont move to another country (unless they something really bad) if they win the next election. It's not so much do not like. I lived under the last Tory govt. I never want to do it again. It is more a hatred thing. Originally Posted by Lothian If you are the last out, can you remember to turn off the lights. I remember that well. They reckon it did turn it back the Tories way. Originally Posted by Francesca R Usually this is just code (bluster) for "I don't agree with the government." I suspect the actual number of such political exiles from the UK is really small. The typical refrain of Tory Toffs (check with Darat ) shortly before John Major was booted out, was that all the entrepreneurs would leave the country if "the socialists" won on 1 May 97. I have had the option previous to leave. I want to stay and see if we get a referendum first. If it is blocked due to Westmninster interference and we have Tory govt in Westminster then I will not stay here. It's not bluster, it would also be a good career move.
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

30th September 2009, 08:23 AM	#32
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 19,388	Originally Posted by funk de fino If the southern based parties manage to block a referendum, and we get a Tory govt in Westminster, then I will be applying for a move overseas with my work for a few years. I'm not going anywhere. I'll put up with it. I just got back (three years ago) after having lived in England for nearly 25 years, and I'm back to stay. I still hope to live to celebrate Independence Day here. If I was jumping ship for political reasons it would be Ireland or Norway, but there's all that "hills of home" baggage that's extremely difficult to shake, even if you want to. I hope we get the referendum next year. If I hear one more smarmy pundit belittle the Scots as being uniquely incompetent and incapable of running our own affairs, I might be tempted to shove his teeth down his throat. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The thing about medicine is, that it all comes down to the numbers." - Dr. Stephen Franklin, Interludes and Examinations. "To give Rolfe his due, I think this is a good example to everyone of what can happen if we fail to get a proper diagnosis and begin treating on symptoms alone--a big mistake, as shown here." - "Snoopy" on H'pathy Forums, apparently abjuring the very fundamentals of homoeopathy after she'd just allowed a young mother with Addison's disease to die.

30th September 2009, 08:29 AM	#33
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 47,705	Originally Posted by Rolfe ...snip... If I hear one more smarmy pundit belittle the Scots as being uniquely incompetent and incapable of running our own affairs, I might be tempted to shove his teeth down his throat. Rolfe. So you think Gordon Brown is doing a competent job, well I never.....
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

30th September 2009, 08:35 AM	#34
Lothian (edited for breach of rule 10) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A small, blue-green world in one of the less fashionable sectors of the galaxy Posts: 7,033	Originally Posted by Darat So you think Gordon Brown is doing a competent job, well I never..... Her post was 'Scots'; the plural. I think she means Blair as well.
	__________________ "When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly half way between. It is possible for one side simply to be wrong." Richard Dawkins and Jerry Coyne JREF Forum Campaign Group

30th September 2009, 08:37 AM	#35
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 19,388	Originally Posted by Darat So you think Gordon Brown is doing a competent job, well I never..... Now that's as neat an example of begging the question as I've ever seen. It's a matter of constant astonishment how the same Tories can in one breath wail and moan about the number of Scots in the cabinet, and how England is being run by a lot of Jocks and all the rest, and then in the next breath declare that we're all a bunch of incompetent failed town councillors who shouldn't be allowed to run the proverbial whelk stand. Labour, on the other hand, just boast about the former while maintaining the Tory line on the latter, again without apparent irony. Of course Scotland would be better off if all her competent politicians worked at home for the good of Scotland and gave up this game of wanting to be "big beasts" at Westminster. Whether I'd include Gordon Brown in that category is another matter though. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The thing about medicine is, that it all comes down to the numbers." - Dr. Stephen Franklin, Interludes and Examinations. "To give Rolfe his due, I think this is a good example to everyone of what can happen if we fail to get a proper diagnosis and begin treating on symptoms alone--a big mistake, as shown here." - "Snoopy" on H'pathy Forums, apparently abjuring the very fundamentals of homoeopathy after she'd just allowed a young mother with Addison's disease to die.