Beginning of the end for antivaxxers blaming autism?

[Dorian Gray]

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...927415,00.html

Quote:

On Sept. 22, England's National Health Service (NHS) released the first study of autism in the general adult population. The findings confirm the intuitive assumption: that ASD is just as common in adults as it is in children. Researchers at the University of Leicester, working with the NHS Information Center found that roughly 1 in 100 adults are on the spectrum — the same rate found for children in England, Japan, Canada and, for that matter, New Jersey.
This finding would also appear to contradict the commonplace idea that autism rates have exploded in the two decades. Researchers found no significant differences in autism prevalence among people they surveyed in their 20s, 30s, 40s, right up through their 70s. "This suggests that the factors that lead to developing autism appear to be constant," said Dr. Terry Brugha, professor of psychiatry at the University of Leicester and lead author of the study. "I think what our survey suggests doesn't go with the idea that the prevalence is rising."
In England, where there is widespread suspicion that the childhood vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella has led to an explosion in autism cases, the study was hailed as part of a growing body of evidence that the vaccine, which was introduced in the 1988, is not to blame.

I fully admit, right up front, this is one study.

That's a partial quote, but it's the point. Autism hasn't necessarily suddenly reached a critical mass, according to these findings. Only the tolerance, understanding and diagnosis has increased. Instead of the blame-the-parents, electroshock therapy, institutionalization and/or lobotomies that happened before, the medical community have come out of the dark ages and started to once again "notice" that autism and other spectrum disorders seem to run in families. In other words, it's genetic. This study, along with the genetic support, seems to indicate that autism incidences are actually falling.

It also seems to indicate that, and I can't stress this enough, IT'S NOT THE VACCINES.

[volatile]

If evidence convinced these loons, well... they wouldn't be loons. The end of blaming the vaccine? Don't bet your shirt on it.

[paximperium]

Facts will never ever change the minds of true believers.
Data was published for before and after thiomersol numbers of autism. It showed no change. They are now blaming everything else and a quack even manipulated to data to try to show the opposite.

The hysteria against vaccine has been there since cowpox was used as a vaccine. I doubt it will truly go away.

[Dorian Gray]

It will make people like Jenny McCarthy look stupid - especially since she claims to have cured it. With fewer spewing heads, the headless might follow a different crowd.

[jer_j]

Very interesting, and I really appreciate you sharing this.

Yet it can't be the beginning of the end - the movement's too fluid and adaptable. It's gone from blaming vaccines to blaming additives to blaming "overload." I don't know how they can explain away this study, but I'm sure they'll find a way.

Any ideas on how they'll do it?

[Eos of the Eons]

I'm still waiting for them to blame vaccines for schizophrenia. More people get schizophrenia than autism for crying out loud.

[geni]

Aparently not:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1140618

[Eos of the Eons]

Those BSers don't get that GB happens in 1/100,000 people because of bacteria and things like surgery. They just happen to ignore that more people get it triggered by the actual flu bug than by the flu vaccine. I don't know of any association between MMR and GBS.

If MMR caused autism, then so should measles, mumps and rubella.

[Dorian Gray]

If MMR caused autism, then it should also cause measles, mumps and rubella. But, oddly, you never seem to hear that argument.

[Eos of the Eons]

Well, they (like Wakefield) say the particles in MMR cause autism (as in the particles found in guts of kids after that nobody but Wakefield found), so those same particles are parts of measles, mumpls, and Rubella in the vaccine. Sooo, the diseases, especially measles, themselves should cause autism if the vaccine does.

Quote:

Duplicity abounds as 11 of the 12 families with purported measles particles in their child were suing vaccine companies.

He had personally tested all specimens for measles RNA by PCR. The Lancet 1998 paper reports that all 12 patients had detectable MMR vaccine particles, yet the work could not be repeated by independent investigators.

http://www.pediatricsupersite.com/view.aspx?rid=36850

[Dorian Gray]

Originally Posted by geni

Aparently not:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1140618

The individual doses may have come out earlier, but the MMR vaccine (i.e., the combination vaccine) came out when they said it did.

Also, one of the links at the bottom of that page gives misleading information. They claim that someone estimated a 1 in 64 incidence of autism in the earlier part of the decade, but claim that once 1 in 100 was reached, it seems like it stuck there. This sounds to me like they accepted the 1 in 64 without question, and will not accept any other number, particularly higher ones.

In any case, I stated in the OP that it's one study. I presented it thusly. Please note I didn't say 'The end' but 'beginning of the end', and I ended with a question mark. If you're looking at an English study, it helps to understand English. Right?

[geni]

Originally Posted by Dorian Gray

The individual doses may have come out earlier, but the MMR vaccine (i.e., the combination vaccine) came out when they said it did.

Also, one of the links at the bottom of that page gives misleading information. They claim that someone estimated a 1 in 64 incidence of autism in the earlier part of the decade, but claim that once 1 in 100 was reached, it seems like it stuck there. This sounds to me like they accepted the 1 in 64 without question, and will not accept any other number, particularly higher ones.

In any case, I stated in the OP that it's one study. I presented it thusly. Please note I didn't say 'The end' but 'beginning of the end', and I ended with a question mark. If you're looking at an English study, it helps to understand English. Right?

Zee correctness of the thread I linked to is unimportant. It's the same reaction I've been seeing from the anti vaccine mob for years. At this point I'm not sure there is anything short of an epidemic that will have reasonable chance of getting them to change.

[jer_j]

Originally Posted by geni

At this point I'm not sure there is anything short of an epidemic that will have reasonable chance of getting them to change.

You're absolutely right. These parents are basically like spoiled teenagers.

Spoiled teenagers have been born into a family where everything is given to them and they are insulated from financial hardship and stress - so they turn against the ones who gave it all to them. Rebelling against parents and teachers is cool.

Spoiled parents have been born into a time when healthy children are taken for granted and they are insulated from crippling, disfiguring, and deadly childhood diseases - so they turn against the institutions that made it possible. Rebelling against doctors and "big pharma" is cool.

Unfortunately, nothing will change for either group until they quit getting a free ride.

[Eos of the Eons]

Not only that, but many of them have invested interests in selling that altie carp. The homeopath antivaxxers like Dorey (AVN) have subscribed to a totally insane philosophy too. They are incapable of examining facts, and many are completely narcissistic. They have this weird concept of how the body works, but refuse to actually learn about anatomy. I've been accused of being brainwashed by my education by them. It's completely absurd. It's ironic that most of their parents have had them vaccinated so they don't understand disease at all, but now their children and many children of those who would vaccinate are now dying of things whooping cough... but that is better to the nutters than having kids "poisoned" by vaccines! Death is more natural in their insane philosophy.

[MattusMaximus]

Originally Posted by volatile

If evidence convinced these loons, well... they wouldn't be loons. The end of blaming the vaccine? Don't bet your shirt on it.

Ditto. The Jenny MCCarthy's of the world are beyond facts & reason when it comes to this issue. They will continue to rant and rave about the evils of vaccinations forever, but what can happen is that people on the fence can be convinced to not listen to the lunatics.

[MattusMaximus]

Originally Posted by geni

Zee correctness of the thread I linked to is unimportant. It's the same reaction I've been seeing from the anti vaccine mob for years. At this point I'm not sure there is anything short of an epidemic that will have reasonable chance of getting them to change.

And not even that would convince many of them. They'd likely make up some kind of whacko conspiracy theory that the epidemic was created by the government & Big Pharma as a way of scaring people into taking vaccines. In fact, this conspiracy theory is already running rampant in regards to the H1N1 vaccine. For example, perhaps the most extreme CT I've seen on this is at David Icke's website

[Eos of the Eons]

Exactly. You have to stick them on another planet with no big pharma and all the diseases we had back before vaccination. Then let em tough it out by boiling leaves in an attempt to save themselves after their magic water fails. Even then, they will blame big pharma and industrial toxins for destroying their PERFECT immune systems, and those of their just born kids even centuries later after relocating there. Yep, hundreds of years ago there was no disease cuz there was no pollution and no big pharma and everyone lived a thousand or 10 thousand years in fields of flowers and didn't eat meat, since a diet of just carrots and sunshine were enough!

[esquel]

Has David Icke gone from believing that all the major world leaders are actually hidden lizard-people to more mainstream anti-vax now? Someone on his financial staff must have convinced him to "rein in the crazy, you're starting to frighten the marks investors."

[Eos of the Eons]

Well, isn't there another V series starting in November? Maybe that will get him going again?

[MattusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons

Well, isn't there another V series starting in November? Maybe that will get him going again?

Yup, I saw the trailer at the movie theater just last night. Icke's going to have a field day with that

[MattusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons

Exactly. You have to stick them on another planet with no big pharma and all the diseases we had back before vaccination. Then let em tough it out by boiling leaves in an attempt to save themselves after their magic water fails. Even then, they will blame big pharma and industrial toxins for destroying their PERFECT immune systems, and those of their just born kids even centuries later after relocating there. Yep, hundreds of years ago there was no disease cuz there was no pollution and no big pharma and everyone lived a thousand or 10 thousand years in fields of flowers and didn't eat meat, since a diet of just carrots and sunshine were enough!

And I suppose all the historical evidence of the Black Death was just made up by Big Pharma, too. Convenient that they forget the greatest plague ever in recorded history

[Eos of the Eons]

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

And I suppose all the historical evidence of the Black Death was just made up by Big Pharma, too. Convenient that they forget the greatest plague ever in recorded history

Of course! Oh, wasn't that around industrialization of some sort. It was the toxins... the toxinsssss....

[Dorian Gray]

Precioussssss