Man once dying leaves hospital after 4 months - "It's a miracle!"

orphia nay · 5th October 2009, 12:34 AM

"[...]He appeared to be within hours of dying. But what happened next is going to lead to a formal investigation by the Catholic Church to determine if the spiritual intervention of an Irish-French monk, Columba Marmion who died in 1923, was responsible for a medical miracle. Because Andersen didn't die. He made a recovery that at first sight seems to defy medicine and logic.

Horgan arrived carrying with him a relic of Marmion - a fragment of his monk's habit. The priest was gowned and masked and led into intensive care unit. While praying that God would spare his friend's life, he took the relic and placed it on Andersen's head, heart and on the dressing covering his diseased leg. "I asked Blessed Marmion to intercede with the Lord and bring healing," said Horgan.

[...]

On Saturday, five days after he fell ill, a nurse rushed up to Charlene. "He was really excited. He said, 'The blood culture's come back and it's negative. I'm taking him off life support.' He pulled the tube out of his mouth and Peter said to me, 'Can you give me a hug?' " One of his surgeons told Charlene her husband's recovery was a miracle, another said he was very lucky.

He would be in hospital for the next four months."

[...]

http://www.canada.com/life/Catholic+...385/story.html

Sure, the guy was lucky, but not as lucky as the church would claim. Personally, I think a "miracle" would be if the guy was able to leave hospital the day after he was on his death bed, not 4 months later, but that's just me.

Marduk · 5th October 2009, 12:39 AM

surely if it was God he wouldn't have made him ill in the first place

he usually smites them sinners better than that doesnt he,

thatguywhojuggles · 5th October 2009, 01:55 AM

I will never understand why religious people are so scared of death. Heck if I believed that this life only lasted (at best) 80 years, and that I had an eternity of bliss to look forward to after I died, I'd want to die as quick as possible!

AdinDraco · 5th October 2009, 05:00 AM

Miracle? I'm assuming that he was in a modern hospital, on life-support machinery, receiving medication and modern medical care...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJxCFa8YmbQ

devnull · 5th October 2009, 05:27 AM

so the stupid monk risked his friends life by rubbing a dirty old piece of cloth on his leg, in an attempt to promote infection?

Ill be in hospital soon for a big operation - if some jesus freak starts rubbing something on my bandages theyre gonna limp out, guaranteed.

a_unique_person · 5th October 2009, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by orphia nay

Sure, the guy was lucky, but not as lucky as the church would claim. Personally, I think a "miracle" would be if the guy was able to leave hospital the day after he was on his death bed, not 4 months later, but that's just me.

Not a very good cure rate.

Hux · 5th October 2009, 06:06 AM

This is well within the limits for spontaneous recovery and regression. It is well known amongst medical circles and there is nothing miraculous about it.

He might explain this to the relatives of all the thousands of people who die from this disease all the time.

aggle-rithm · 5th October 2009, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by thatguywhojuggles

I will never understand why religious people are so scared of death. Heck if I believed that this life only lasted (at best) 80 years, and that I had an eternity of bliss to look forward to after I died, I'd want to die as quick as possible!

It's that stupid self-preservation instinct. Why, oh why, did God make us fundamentally different from animals, yet gave us the same base instincts?

I'm guessing it's laziness. Copied and pasted some code from an aardvark or something.

Hux · 5th October 2009, 07:01 AM

Because they are human and they are terrified. But they are terrified on two counts. One, they may well be wrong, two, they cannot accept oblivion.

Whereas, the sceptic might be humanly terrified of death but oblivion and an eventual return to the Universe might seem more appealing than an eternity spent in paralysed constant worship.

malbui · 5th October 2009, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Not a very good cure rate.

No, he wasn't a curate. He was a monk.

Hux · 5th October 2009, 07:23 AM

Beerina · 5th October 2009, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Hux

This is well within the limits for spontaneous recovery and regression. It is well known amongst medical circles and there is nothing miraculous about it.

He might explain this to the relatives of all the thousands of people who die from this disease all the time.

Recall House saying, in response to Foreman saying "Spontaneous recoveries occur," that "There is a reason, we just don't know it, yet."

Important distinction for this "debate" -- "We just don't know it, yet" in no way, shape, or form justifies "ergo goddidit."

Religion's track record of things tagged with "ergo goddidit" is not too promising, after science gets through with them. Even a religious person should be highly skittish of that tack.

Beerina · 5th October 2009, 11:01 AM

So what's the real miracle here, anyway? That his system responded to antibiotics? Or that he was not killed by the septic byproducts of the bacterial infestation, which is what ultimately kills, and can do so even if all the bacteria were magically waved away?

pgwenthold · 5th October 2009, 11:13 AM

Why didn't this beloved saint intervene by keeping him from getting sick in the first place?

It's like crediting the St Christopher medal on the dash of your car for getting you safely out after your accident.

Darth Rotor · 5th October 2009, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by thatguywhojuggles

I will never understand why religious people are so scared of death. Heck if I believed that this life only lasted (at best) 80 years, and that I had an eternity of bliss to look forward to after I died, I'd want to die as quick as possible!

Depending upon denomination, there might be a few eons in Purgatory to go through before arriving at the Eternal Bliss place.

Darth Rotor · 5th October 2009, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

Copied and pasted some code from an aardvark or

I hear the ladies appreciate that module.

Hux · 5th October 2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

I hear the ladies appreciate that module.

I thought that too; I just couldn't find a way to articulate it as nicely as you.

Deranged · 5th October 2009, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

It's that stupid self-preservation instinct. Why, oh why, did God make us fundamentally different from animals, yet gave us the same base instincts?

I'm guessing it's laziness. Copied and pasted some code from an aardvark or something.

Of course, if we believe in a fantastic afterlife but fear going there it's because we don't REALLY believe in one. We have doubts that it exists at all. Or, we fear it'll be too boring. It's sort of a leave well enough alone scenario. Say we love where we live but we're told there's a better place to live by people whom we trust. We feel torn. "Do I want to leave here for there? At least I KNOW what here is like."

Fnord · 5th October 2009, 12:49 PM

Amazing, isn't it?

God, dead saints, religious relics and prayer all seem to cure infections and other "invisible" diseases and disorders, but not once has any of these regenerated an amputated limb, a missing internal organ, or a head that's been cut off.

Rather prejudicial, wouldn't you say?

Deranged · 5th October 2009, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Fnord

Amazing, isn't it?

God, dead saints, religious relics and prayer all seem to cure infections and other "invisible" diseases and disorders, but not once has any of these regenerated an amputated limb, a missing internal organ, or a head that's been cut off.

Rather prejudicial, wouldn't you say?

Oh, that's explainable! God doesn't want us to be TOO CERTAIN that he's involved in our lives. He seems to enjoy the guessing game he has going. Then , because of said game, if we don't believe he's around, he can throw us into a pit of fire for punishment. Or, "allow us" to go there.
Then simply blame Satan for it and say he's real sad, though...

Hux · 5th October 2009, 01:13 PM

There's an entire web site dedicated to that very question:

whywontgodhealamputees.com

It does give pause; He must loath and despise people who lose limbs for whatever reason. He never hears or answers their prayers. if people go to Lourdes in wheelchairs, the best they can hope for is retreads on their tyres.

Fnord · 5th October 2009, 02:05 PM

Thanx, Hux! I've seen that website before, and "thrown it in the face" of those who claim that prayer, God, or some dead saint cures everything.

I've even pointed out my own amputation as proof that God does not always honor that "Ask and ye shall receive" bit from the Bible.

shandyjan · 5th October 2009, 02:41 PM

It's been said before but bears repeating, I will believe its a miracle when an amputee grows his own arm or leg back overnight!

Ichneumonwasp · 5th October 2009, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by shandyjan

It's been said before but bears repeating, I will believe its a miracle when an amputee grows his own arm or leg back overnight!

Why do we want bears to repeat? Does Steven Colbert know about this?

hcmom · 5th October 2009, 05:07 PM

When I was in the hospital this spring with blood poisoning, the doctor said that I was lucky, that about one in three people actually died if they got to the point I had.

I want to know who was praying for me, since obviously all the antibiotics and plasma and other stuff they had me on wasn't what was responsible for me getting better in just a couple days.

Fnord · 5th October 2009, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by hcmom

... obviously all the antibiotics and plasma and other stuff they had me on wasn't what was responsible for me getting better in just a couple days.

.
Evidence please?

People get better. Medical intervention helps them get better faster. And in all Biblical accounts, miraculous recovery was instantaneous. That it took "just a couple days" for you to get better (you did not say how much better, or how bad-off you were in the first place), indicates that your recovery was indeed a purely mundane and medically-induced one.

Ichneumonwasp · 5th October 2009, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Fnord

.
Evidence please?

People get better. Medical intervention helps them get better faster. And in all Biblical accounts, miraculous recovery was instantaneous. That it took "just a couple days" for you to get better (you did not say how much better, or how bad-off you were in the first place), indicates that your recovery was indeed a purely mundane and medically-induced one.

As was the case quoted above, which was her point. That account is extremely sketchy. What, pray tell, is miraculous about blood cultures being negative? I've spent more time than I want to think about in ICUs, and I've never heard anyone, ever, say the words, "his blood cultures are negative, I'm taking him off life support", especially since the two are unrelated. Being on a respirator concerns oxygenation and muscle strength, not the results of blood cultures. Many people with positive blood cultures are never intubated. Plus one doesn't just pull a tube from a patient's throat; though sometimes patients do it themselves. They are placed on regular air on a T-tube; we watch to see if they can breath on their own and not tire out, etc. The weaning process takes time.

This sounds like a highly souped up, highly edited version of reality.

shandyjan · 5th October 2009, 07:34 PM

I agree Ichneumonwasp, reading it all through, in such a short time he was going to be brain damaged, never going to walk, never going to drive, that hospital are doom merchants who don't hold out any hope, or maybe there is a lot of fabrication by the wife and priest.

Hux · 6th October 2009, 02:17 AM

Ok. If Republicans would have you believe the Canadian health system (as well as the U.K's with our 'death panels') is collapsing into a heap on a daily basis, surely the miracle is that this poor sod survived the hospitalisation?

5th October 2009, 12:34 AM	#1
orphia nay Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2005 Location: In Command of the Revolution's Gorilla Group II of Monkeys, Camels and Penguins (all named 'Spod'). Posts: 14,047	Man once dying leaves hospital after 4 months - "It's a miracle!" "[...]He appeared to be within hours of dying. But what happened next is going to lead to a formal investigation by the Catholic Church to determine if the spiritual intervention of an Irish-French monk, Columba Marmion who died in 1923, was responsible for a medical miracle. Because Andersen didn't die. He made a recovery that at first sight seems to defy medicine and logic. Horgan arrived carrying with him a relic of Marmion - a fragment of his monk's habit. The priest was gowned and masked and led into intensive care unit. While praying that God would spare his friend's life, he took the relic and placed it on Andersen's head, heart and on the dressing covering his diseased leg. "I asked Blessed Marmion to intercede with the Lord and bring healing," said Horgan. [...] On Saturday, five days after he fell ill, a nurse rushed up to Charlene. "He was really excited. He said, 'The blood culture's come back and it's negative. I'm taking him off life support.' He pulled the tube out of his mouth and Peter said to me, 'Can you give me a hug?' " One of his surgeons told Charlene her husband's recovery was a miracle, another said he was very lucky. He would be in hospital for the next four months." [...] http://www.canada.com/life/Catholic+...385/story.html Sure, the guy was lucky, but not as lucky as the church would claim. Personally, I think a "miracle" would be if the guy was able to leave hospital the day after he was on his death bed, not 4 months later, but that's just me.
	__________________ Noonie noonie noonie noonie noonie noonie noo. Click here on Corpse Cruncher, you know she loves it. "You're weird." - Marquis de Carabas. The 9/11 Truther (Twoofer) Credo.

5th October 2009, 12:39 AM	#2
Marduk Dragon Killer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 3,073	surely if it was God he wouldn't have made him ill in the first place he usually smites them sinners better than that doesnt he,
	__________________ Senno Ecto Gama ĝae haš dug zae ama kibid "Stupid humans" (Wollery) "Kill all humans" (Bender) "for while heaven may be closed I am always open, even on Christmas." (Lucifer)

5th October 2009, 01:55 AM	#3
thatguywhojuggles Resident Juggler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 1,210	I will never understand why religious people are so scared of death. Heck if I believed that this life only lasted (at best) 80 years, and that I had an eternity of bliss to look forward to after I died, I'd want to die as quick as possible!
	__________________ \/\/ALTER Juggler-Artist-Atheist My Portfolio/ResumÃ© "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." -- Seneca the Younger (4? B.C. - 65 A.D.) "A lie goes half way around the world before the truth has a chance to get his pants on." - Winston Churchill.

5th October 2009, 05:27 AM	#5
devnull Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 1,075	so the stupid monk risked his friends life by rubbing a dirty old piece of cloth on his leg, in an attempt to promote infection? Ill be in hospital soon for a big operation - if some jesus freak starts rubbing something on my bandages theyre gonna limp out, guaranteed.
	__________________ (13:36:54) Becket: no conspiracy, its more a group seeking to overthrow America from within

5th October 2009, 05:48 AM	#6
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sitting in the ghostly glow of an LCD screen Posts: 27,434	Originally Posted by orphia nay Sure, the guy was lucky, but not as lucky as the church would claim. Personally, I think a "miracle" would be if the guy was able to leave hospital the day after he was on his death bed, not 4 months later, but that's just me. Not a very good cure rate.
	__________________ "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." SH Roberts " Tell people something they know already and they will thank you for it. Tell them something new and they will hate you for it." Monbiot "I am not the fine man you take me for"

5th October 2009, 05:00 AM	#4
AdinDraco Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 284	Miracle? I'm assuming that he was in a modern hospital, on life-support machinery, receiving medication and modern medical care...? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJxCFa8YmbQ

5th October 2009, 06:06 AM	#7
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	This is well within the limits for spontaneous recovery and regression. It is well known amongst medical circles and there is nothing miraculous about it. He might explain this to the relatives of all the thousands of people who die from this disease all the time.
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064

5th October 2009, 06:45 AM	#8
aggle-rithm Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 6,744	Originally Posted by thatguywhojuggles I will never understand why religious people are so scared of death. Heck if I believed that this life only lasted (at best) 80 years, and that I had an eternity of bliss to look forward to after I died, I'd want to die as quick as possible! It's that stupid self-preservation instinct. Why, oh why, did God make us fundamentally different from animals, yet gave us the same base instincts? I'm guessing it's laziness. Copied and pasted some code from an aardvark or something.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

5th October 2009, 07:01 AM	#9
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	Because they are human and they are terrified. But they are terrified on two counts. One, they may well be wrong, two, they cannot accept oblivion. Whereas, the sceptic might be humanly terrified of death but oblivion and an eventual return to the Universe might seem more appealing than an eternity spent in paralysed constant worship.
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064

5th October 2009, 07:04 AM	#10
malbui Beauf Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Pays de Gex Posts: 1,972	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Not a very good cure rate. No, he wasn't a curate. He was a monk.
	__________________ "Chipeur, arrête de chiper!" "Oh Miiiinnnnnnnce!" "But Master! Does not the fire need water too? Does not the mountain need the storm? Does not your scrotum need kicking?"

5th October 2009, 07:23 AM	#11
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064

5th October 2009, 10:59 AM	#12
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 14,373	Originally Posted by Hux This is well within the limits for spontaneous recovery and regression. It is well known amongst medical circles and there is nothing miraculous about it. He might explain this to the relatives of all the thousands of people who die from this disease all the time. Recall House saying, in response to Foreman saying "Spontaneous recoveries occur," that "There is a reason, we just don't know it, yet." Important distinction for this "debate" -- "We just don't know it, yet" in no way, shape, or form justifies "ergo goddidit." Religion's track record of things tagged with "ergo goddidit" is not too promising, after science gets through with them. Even a religious person should be highly skittish of that tack.
	__________________ Reid Fleming, World's Toughest Milkman, in *A Day Like Any Other* The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

5th October 2009, 11:01 AM	#13
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 14,373	So what's the real miracle here, anyway? That his system responded to antibiotics? Or that he was not killed by the septic byproducts of the bacterial infestation, which is what ultimately kills, and can do so even if all the bacteria were magically waved away?
	__________________ Reid Fleming, World's Toughest Milkman, in *A Day Like Any Other* The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

5th October 2009, 11:13 AM	#14
pgwenthold Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 8,793	Why didn't this beloved saint intervene by keeping him from getting sick in the first place? It's like crediting the St Christopher medal on the dash of your car for getting you safely out after your accident.
pgwenthold Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 8,793	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)

5th October 2009, 11:55 AM	#15
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,802	Originally Posted by thatguywhojuggles I will never understand why religious people are so scared of death. Heck if I believed that this life only lasted (at best) 80 years, and that I had an eternity of bliss to look forward to after I died, I'd want to die as quick as possible! Depending upon denomination, there might be a few eons in Purgatory to go through before arriving at the Eternal Bliss place.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon

5th October 2009, 11:57 AM	#16
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,802	Originally Posted by aggle-rithm Copied and pasted some code from an aardvark or I hear the ladies appreciate that module.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon

5th October 2009, 12:07 PM	#17
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor I hear the ladies appreciate that module. I thought that too; I just couldn't find a way to articulate it as nicely as you.
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064

5th October 2009, 12:26 PM	#18
Deranged Scholar Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 81	Originally Posted by aggle-rithm It's that stupid self-preservation instinct. Why, oh why, did God make us fundamentally different from animals, yet gave us the same base instincts? I'm guessing it's laziness. Copied and pasted some code from an aardvark or something. Of course, if we believe in a fantastic afterlife but fear going there it's because we don't REALLY believe in one. We have doubts that it exists at all. Or, we fear it'll be too boring. It's sort of a leave well enough alone scenario. Say we love where we live but we're told there's a better place to live by people whom we trust. We feel torn. "Do I want to leave here for there? At least I KNOW what here is like."
Deranged Scholar Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 81

5th October 2009, 12:49 PM	#19
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pantopia Posts: 3,904	Amazing, isn't it? God, dead saints, religious relics and prayer all seem to cure infections and other "invisible" diseases and disorders, but not once has any of these regenerated an amputated limb, a missing internal organ, or a head that's been cut off. Rather prejudicial, wouldn't you say?
	__________________ "When I say, "Evidence, Please?" I am not asking for another statement of faith. I am asking for the evidence that supports that faith. Faith proves nothing." -- Fnord, Pointing Out the Obvious to the Oblivious Since 1957.

5th October 2009, 01:03 PM	#20
Deranged Scholar Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 81	Originally Posted by Fnord Amazing, isn't it? God, dead saints, religious relics and prayer all seem to cure infections and other "invisible" diseases and disorders, but not once has any of these regenerated an amputated limb, a missing internal organ, or a head that's been cut off. Rather prejudicial, wouldn't you say? Oh, that's explainable! God doesn't want us to be TOO CERTAIN that he's involved in our lives. He seems to enjoy the guessing game he has going. Then , because of said game, if we don't believe he's around, he can throw us into a pit of fire for punishment. Or, "allow us" to go there. Then simply blame Satan for it and say he's real sad, though...
Deranged Scholar Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 81

5th October 2009, 01:13 PM	#21
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	There's an entire web site dedicated to that very question: whywontgodhealamputees.com It does give pause; He must loath and despise people who lose limbs for whatever reason. He never hears or answers their prayers. if people go to Lourdes in wheelchairs, the best they can hope for is retreads on their tyres.
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064

5th October 2009, 02:05 PM	#22
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pantopia Posts: 3,904	Thanx, Hux! I've seen that website before, and "thrown it in the face" of those who claim that prayer, God, or some dead saint cures everything. I've even pointed out my own amputation as proof that God does not always honor that "Ask and ye shall receive" bit from the Bible.
	__________________ "When I say, "Evidence, Please?" I am not asking for another statement of faith. I am asking for the evidence that supports that faith. Faith proves nothing." -- Fnord, Pointing Out the Obvious to the Oblivious Since 1957.

5th October 2009, 02:41 PM	#23
shandyjan Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N/W England Posts: 1,013	It's been said before but bears repeating, I will believe its a miracle when an amputee grows his own arm or leg back overnight!
	__________________ Losing an illusion makes you wiser than finding a truth. ~Ludwig Börne

5th October 2009, 04:39 PM	#24
Ichneumonwasp Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,360	Originally Posted by shandyjan It's been said before but bears repeating, I will believe its a miracle when an amputee grows his own arm or leg back overnight! Why do we want bears to repeat? Does Steven Colbert know about this?

5th October 2009, 05:07 PM	#25
hcmom Tagger Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Probably lost. Posts: 8,858	When I was in the hospital this spring with blood poisoning, the doctor said that I was lucky, that about one in three people actually died if they got to the point I had. I want to know who was praying for me, since obviously all the antibiotics and plasma and other stuff they had me on wasn't what was responsible for me getting better in just a couple days.
	__________________ JeffWagg> hcmom, you can feel that way if you want, but you're quite innocent. Curnir> Hcmom. taking reality into a wholly new direction

5th October 2009, 06:11 PM	#26
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pantopia Posts: 3,904	Originally Posted by hcmom ... obviously all the antibiotics and plasma and other stuff they had me on wasn't what was responsible for me getting better in just a couple days. . Evidence please? People get better. Medical intervention helps them get better faster. And in all Biblical accounts, miraculous recovery was instantaneous. That it took "just a couple days" for you to get better (you did not say how much better, or how bad-off you were in the first place), indicates that your recovery was indeed a purely mundane and medically-induced one.
	__________________ "When I say, "Evidence, Please?" I am not asking for another statement of faith. I am asking for the evidence that supports that faith. Faith proves nothing." -- Fnord, Pointing Out the Obvious to the Oblivious Since 1957.

5th October 2009, 07:24 PM	#27
Ichneumonwasp Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,360	Originally Posted by Fnord . Evidence please? People get better. Medical intervention helps them get better faster. And in all Biblical accounts, miraculous recovery was instantaneous. That it took "just a couple days" for you to get better (you did not say how much better, or how bad-off you were in the first place), indicates that your recovery was indeed a purely mundane and medically-induced one. As was the case quoted above, which was her point. That account is extremely sketchy. What, pray tell, is miraculous about blood cultures being negative? I've spent more time than I want to think about in ICUs, and I've never heard anyone, ever, say the words, "his blood cultures are negative, I'm taking him off life support", especially since the two are unrelated. Being on a respirator concerns oxygenation and muscle strength, not the results of blood cultures. Many people with positive blood cultures are never intubated. Plus one doesn't just pull a tube from a patient's throat; though sometimes patients do it themselves. They are placed on regular air on a T-tube; we watch to see if they can breath on their own and not tire out, etc. The weaning process takes time. This sounds like a highly souped up, highly edited version of reality.

5th October 2009, 07:34 PM	#28
shandyjan Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N/W England Posts: 1,013	I agree Ichneumonwasp, reading it all through, in such a short time he was going to be brain damaged, never going to walk, never going to drive, that hospital are doom merchants who don't hold out any hope, or maybe there is a lot of fabrication by the wife and priest.
	__________________ Losing an illusion makes you wiser than finding a truth. ~Ludwig Börne

6th October 2009, 02:17 AM	#29
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	Ok. If Republicans would have you believe the Canadian health system (as well as the U.K's with our 'death panels') is collapsing into a heap on a daily basis, surely the miracle is that this poor sod survived the hospitalisation?
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064