National-Social criticism of Capitalism

Arcade22 · 9th October 2009, 03:52 AM

Just saw a link to this website and i thought it was an intresting read, essentially its a website that criticizes modern Capitalism but, suprise suprise not written by Communists but national-socialists.

The website is called Antikap.nu , and while its in Swedish i think Google-translate does a good job of convening the message.

While i don't agree with their criticism i thought it was a good and interesting read.

Links: Antikap.nu
What is antikap
info-14 interviews antikap

oldhat · 9th October 2009, 02:37 PM

You're an extreme rightist.

oldhat · 9th October 2009, 02:40 PM

"National-Socialist."

*ahem*

CatOfGrey · 12th October 2009, 04:25 PM

From the translated article "What is Capitalism?":

"When the capitalist word uttered for the first time, so this was a derogatory term for a person to invest their own or borrowed funds to increase or start a production and then take out the maximum profits while workers' wages would be kept as low as possible."

I always get a kick when anti-capitalists emphasize that wages are minimized in a capital based system. But nobody mentions that in capitalism, living expenses are minimized, or quality is maximized. Under Socialism, the state decides a price. If it's too high, then quality of life drops. If the price is too low, there are shortages, again resulting in drop in quality of life.

"Today there are only a few products and markets that are really totally free."

This is very true in the US. Drug manufacture, for example, has been made very expensive and risky by the FDA. A high percentage of health care is controlled and paid for by the government, robbing the industry of the ability to profit by making health care more affordable and efficient for consumers.

Similarly, oil production is heavily controlled by environmental laws, to the point that smaller companies can't enter the market to pressure the industry oligopoly to lower prices. You could make a case that since global oil is dominated by state run entities, that they have created a market where only a monopoly could compete. But again, that is a function of state control, not market forces.

Puppycow · 12th October 2009, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by CatOfGrey

This is very true in the US. Drug manufacture, for example, has been made very expensive and risky by the FDA. A high percentage of health care is controlled and paid for by the government, robbing the industry of the ability to profit by making health care more affordable and efficient for consumers.

Without the FDA, some of the expense may go away, but the risk for consumers increases. Quacks and frauds would again be free to sell bogus "miracle cures" to regular folks. Consumers would have to look very hard to find legitimate medicines in the blizzard of bogus cures that would pop up.

Puppycow · 12th October 2009, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by CatOfGrey

Similarly, oil production is heavily controlled by environmental laws, to the point that smaller companies can't enter the market to pressure the industry oligopoly to lower prices. You could make a case that since global oil is dominated by state run entities, that they have created a market where only a monopoly could compete. But again, that is a function of state control, not market forces.

What "environmental laws" do you propose getting rid of?

CatOfGrey · 14th October 2009, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Without the FDA, some of the expense may go away, but the risk for consumers increases. Quacks and frauds would again be free to sell bogus "miracle cures" to regular folks. Consumers would have to look very hard to find legitimate medicines in the blizzard of bogus cures that would pop up.

Not necessarily true. The small electronics industry could just as easily be filled with cheap, unsafe products. However, the last time I checked, it was difficult to find a toaster or hair dryer without an Underwriters Laboratory approval.

Does "Consumer Reports" cover pharmaceuticals? They seem to review darn near everything else. And they do it with no industry influence whatsoever.

TriskettheKid · 14th October 2009, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by CatOfGrey

Not necessarily true. The small electronics industry could just as easily be filled with cheap, unsafe products. However, the last time I checked, it was difficult to find a toaster or hair dryer without an Underwriters Laboratory approval.

Yes, but Underwriters Laboratory is still certified by the OSHA.

CatOfGrey · 14th October 2009, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

What "environmental laws" do you propose getting rid of?

Pardon the novel, I'd like to hear your comments. I freely admit I haven't subject this to much critique...

As it stands, the government requires thousands, even millions of dollars of procedural impact studies before deciding whether any development can be made. This makes oil companies happy, because if I find oil on my 30 acres of wilderness or beachfront property, I am forbidden to set up a well and undercut their prices. Environmental groups like it too: they get what they want, without the responsibility of actually buying and owning the land they wish to control: they just influence a public official by money and organization pressure. We, the people, get screwed, by higher fuel prices.

I believe in the novel idea that you can do what you want on your own land, subject to requiring that you are insured or bonded against possible effects on other's property. In that way, environmental groups would pool their money to buy land that is preserved, rather than buying a senator. And the more dire energy needs are, the more land goes to keeping heating oil prices low so Pennsylvania's poor don't die in February.

As an added bonus, land bought and controlled by environmental groups can't be developed 20 years later by a real estate mogul who buys their own senator. Unless of course, an environmental group elects to sell the land and buy a larger piece of land that's more relevant to preserve...

Father Dagon · 4th March 2010, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Just saw a link to this website and i thought it was an intresting read, essentially its a website that criticizes modern Capitalism but, suprise suprise not written by Communists but national-socialists.

The website is called Antikap.nu , and while its in Swedish i think Google-translate does a good job of convening the message.

While i don't agree with their criticism i thought it was a good and interesting read.

Links: Antikap.nu
What is antikap
info-14 interviews antikap

No surprise for me. The night of the long knifes was directed against the "reds".

The Vampire Economy is interesting.

DC · 4th March 2010, 09:08 AM

National socialist..... national, not a good choice of name in europe

Thunder · 4th March 2010, 09:13 AM

i am of the opinion that "National-Socialism" is a misnomer.

Nazism had nothing to do with Socialism or Communism. it is a bastardization of the term, frequently used by right-wing extremists to allege an ideological link between Fascism and liberalism/progressivism.

the true and more correct term to use...is either Nazism or Fascism.

DC · 4th March 2010, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by parky76

i am of the opinion that "National-Socialism" is a misnomer.

Nazism had nothing to do with Socialism or Communism. it is a bastardization of the term, frequently used by right-wing extremists to allege an ideological link between Fascism and liberalism/progressivism.

the true and more correct term to use...is either Nazism or Fascism.

erm afaik it did indeed have to do with socialism. but actually im unsure, never looked to deep into that "ideology"

The Fallen Serpent · 4th March 2010, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by DC

erm afaik it did indeed have to do with socialism. but actually im unsure, never looked to deep into that "ideology"

The Nazis courted and counted among their ranks socialists in the early days. Elements of the political ideology incorporated aspects of socialism as does any government system beyond pure anarchy. The major difference between national socialism (fascism) and traditional socialism, as far as I can tell, is the focus. National socialists control industries and markets for the good of the nation-state. Traditional socialists control industries and markets for the good of the labor force. At least in stated principles. Obviously Nazism failed to benefit the nation-state considering its short lived tenure and temporarily reduced international influence. The practice of communist states seems to completely disregard the well-being of the populat.

Father Dagon · 4th March 2010, 10:19 AM

National-socialism has a lot of socialism, but plenty of other things, in the baggage. (Just like the ideologies of Pol Pot and Sendero Luminoso isn't plain communism.) Remember that the nazis and the commies of the Weimar Republic competed over the workers and had similar ideas about the jews.

Arcade22 · 4th March 2010, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by oldhat

You're an extreme rightist.

Yes, I'm extremely right! But i am no Nazi.

Thunder · 4th March 2010, 01:08 PM

true socialism..does not discriminate between nationalities, religions, ethnicities...etc. true socialism sees all human beings as part of one family. true socialism, sees the conflicts between various groups as helping the elite maintain their control over the masses.

true socialism, sees racism..sexism...homophobia...anti-Semitism...Islamophobia...as a tool of the elite..to divide, conquer, and maintain control.

divide and conquer. or....the people, united, can never be defeated.

timhau · 4th March 2010, 01:12 PM

Criticism of capitalism by the mentally deficient and insane? Thanks, that's just what I've been looking for all these years.

Father Dagon · 5th March 2010, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by timhau

Criticism of capitalism by the mentally deficient and insane? Thanks, that's just what I've been looking for all these years.

Dude! Do not despise your enemy... I don't recall the name, but one of those peak oil-dudes realized that his lectures was (and is) closely watched by nazis. Educated nazis that are biding their time for a historical comeback.

Given almost all of the nazi-sites I've seen, antikap.nu is really good stuff. It has nothing of: The cult of violence, home-made uniforms, bad music (white power rock if you have to be pedestrian about it), WW2 or the cult of the leader (Hitler, anyone?) It doesn't even have "soft" things such as nazi-influenced esotericism (e.g. Wiligut and Evola). They use plainspoken language, directed to the middle class (a class the nazis for a long time didn't even try to court).

All in all, this makes anitkap.nu a dangerous site.

blutoski · 5th March 2010, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by CatOfGrey

Not necessarily true. The small electronics industry could just as easily be filled with cheap, unsafe products. However, the last time I checked, it was difficult to find a toaster or hair dryer without an Underwriters Laboratory approval.

Does "Consumer Reports" cover pharmaceuticals? They seem to review darn near everything else. And they do it with no industry influence whatsoever.

My impression is that they actually limit themselves to just a few select categories of consumer products, and only a few models (usually top sellers) within each category. They're better than nothing, but not comprehensive.

I can answer that for the Canadian version of Consumer Reports - they do not cover pharmaceuticals. This is because it is too expensive to verify the efficacy and safety of these products. They have a mediocre reputation for alternative medicine. The main reason for their reluctance to criticize, say, acupuncture, is that they consider it to be a belief system rather than a testable product claim. However, I do give them credit for their evaluation of deceptive homeopathic [marketing strategies].

[Consumerlab] does attempt to fill this space, but like Consumer Reports, they are just taking stabs at the big sellers due to the economics of this. They have probably examined one product for every hundred thousand on the market.

I personally suspect that Consumer Reports has very little effect on consumer decisions, except in the tiny slice of prosumers who happen to be buying a product category reviewed in an issue at just the right time that the issue is current.

9th October 2009, 03:52 AM	#1
Arcade22 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Västerbotten, Sweden Posts: 1,823	National-Social criticism of Capitalism Just saw a link to this website and i thought it was an intresting read, essentially its a website that criticizes modern Capitalism but, suprise suprise not written by Communists but national-socialists. The website is called Antikap.nu , and while its in Swedish i think Google-translate does a good job of convening the message. While i don't agree with their criticism i thought it was a good and interesting read. Links: Antikap.nu What is antikap info-14 interviews antikap
	__________________ The habit of the religious way of thinking has biased our mind so grievously that we are — terrified at ourselves in our nakedness and naturalness; it has degraded us so that we deem ourselves depraved by nature, born devils. Max Stirner

9th October 2009, 02:37 PM	#2
oldhat Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 997	You're an extreme rightist.
oldhat Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 997	__________________ "I predict a complete rollover in Congress in 2010 to the Republicans. Bank on it. Laugh, but file it away in the back of your mind." -Beerina

9th October 2009, 02:40 PM	#3
oldhat Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 997	"National-Socialist." ahem
oldhat Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 997	__________________ "I predict a complete rollover in Congress in 2010 to the Republicans. Bank on it. Laugh, but file it away in the back of your mind." -Beerina

12th October 2009, 04:25 PM	#4
CatOfGrey Scholar Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 80	From the translated article "What is Capitalism?": "When the capitalist word uttered for the first time, so this was a derogatory term for a person to invest their own or borrowed funds to increase or start a production and then take out the maximum profits while workers' wages would be kept as low as possible." I always get a kick when anti-capitalists emphasize that wages are minimized in a capital based system. But nobody mentions that in capitalism, living expenses are minimized, or quality is maximized. Under Socialism, the state decides a price. If it's too high, then quality of life drops. If the price is too low, there are shortages, again resulting in drop in quality of life. "Today there are only a few products and markets that are really totally free." This is very true in the US. Drug manufacture, for example, has been made very expensive and risky by the FDA. A high percentage of health care is controlled and paid for by the government, robbing the industry of the ability to profit by making health care more affordable and efficient for consumers. Similarly, oil production is heavily controlled by environmental laws, to the point that smaller companies can't enter the market to pressure the industry oligopoly to lower prices. You could make a case that since global oil is dominated by state run entities, that they have created a market where only a monopoly could compete. But again, that is a function of state control, not market forces.
CatOfGrey Scholar Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 80

12th October 2009, 08:38 PM	#5
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,707	Originally Posted by CatOfGrey This is very true in the US. Drug manufacture, for example, has been made very expensive and risky by the FDA. A high percentage of health care is controlled and paid for by the government, robbing the industry of the ability to profit by making health care more affordable and efficient for consumers. Without the FDA, some of the expense may go away, but the risk for consumers increases. Quacks and frauds would again be free to sell bogus "miracle cures" to regular folks. Consumers would have to look very hard to find legitimate medicines in the blizzard of bogus cures that would pop up.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22 Last edited by Puppycow; 12th October 2009 at 08:40 PM.

12th October 2009, 08:50 PM	#6
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,707	Originally Posted by CatOfGrey Similarly, oil production is heavily controlled by environmental laws, to the point that smaller companies can't enter the market to pressure the industry oligopoly to lower prices. You could make a case that since global oil is dominated by state run entities, that they have created a market where only a monopoly could compete. But again, that is a function of state control, not market forces. What "environmental laws" do you propose getting rid of?
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

14th October 2009, 02:11 PM	#7
CatOfGrey Scholar Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 80	Originally Posted by Puppycow Without the FDA, some of the expense may go away, but the risk for consumers increases. Quacks and frauds would again be free to sell bogus "miracle cures" to regular folks. Consumers would have to look very hard to find legitimate medicines in the blizzard of bogus cures that would pop up. Not necessarily true. The small electronics industry could just as easily be filled with cheap, unsafe products. However, the last time I checked, it was difficult to find a toaster or hair dryer without an Underwriters Laboratory approval. Does "Consumer Reports" cover pharmaceuticals? They seem to review darn near everything else. And they do it with no industry influence whatsoever.
CatOfGrey Scholar Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 80

14th October 2009, 02:23 PM	#8
TriskettheKid Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,432	Originally Posted by CatOfGrey Not necessarily true. The small electronics industry could just as easily be filled with cheap, unsafe products. However, the last time I checked, it was difficult to find a toaster or hair dryer without an Underwriters Laboratory approval. Yes, but Underwriters Laboratory is still certified by the OSHA.

14th October 2009, 02:47 PM	#9
CatOfGrey Scholar Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 80	Originally Posted by Puppycow What "environmental laws" do you propose getting rid of? Pardon the novel, I'd like to hear your comments. I freely admit I haven't subject this to much critique... As it stands, the government requires thousands, even millions of dollars of procedural impact studies before deciding whether any development can be made. This makes oil companies happy, because if I find oil on my 30 acres of wilderness or beachfront property, I am forbidden to set up a well and undercut their prices. Environmental groups like it too: they get what they want, without the responsibility of actually buying and owning the land they wish to control: they just influence a public official by money and organization pressure. We, the people, get screwed, by higher fuel prices. I believe in the novel idea that you can do what you want on your own land, subject to requiring that you are insured or bonded against possible effects on other's property. In that way, environmental groups would pool their money to buy land that is preserved, rather than buying a senator. And the more dire energy needs are, the more land goes to keeping heating oil prices low so Pennsylvania's poor don't die in February. As an added bonus, land bought and controlled by environmental groups can't be developed 20 years later by a real estate mogul who buys their own senator. Unless of course, an environmental group elects to sell the land and buy a larger piece of land that's more relevant to preserve...
CatOfGrey Scholar Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 80

4th March 2010, 08:56 AM	#10
Father Dagon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Mater Evropa, Sol-III Posts: 1,193	Originally Posted by Arcade22 Just saw a link to this website and i thought it was an intresting read, essentially its a website that criticizes modern Capitalism but, suprise suprise not written by Communists but national-socialists. The website is called Antikap.nu , and while its in Swedish i think Google-translate does a good job of convening the message. While i don't agree with their criticism i thought it was a good and interesting read. Links: Antikap.nu What is antikap info-14 interviews antikap No surprise for me. The night of the long knifes was directed against the "reds". The Vampire Economy is interesting.
	__________________ "Eh-ya-ya-ya-yahaah - e'yayayayaaaa... nhg'aaaaa... ngh'aaaa... h'yuh... h'yuh... HELP! HELP!... ff-ff-ff-FATHER! FATHER! YOG-SOTHOTH"

4th March 2010, 09:08 AM	#11
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,646	National socialist..... national, not a good choice of name in europe
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

4th March 2010, 09:13 AM	#12
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	i am of the opinion that "National-Socialism" is a misnomer. Nazism had nothing to do with Socialism or Communism. it is a bastardization of the term, frequently used by right-wing extremists to allege an ideological link between Fascism and liberalism/progressivism. the true and more correct term to use...is either Nazism or Fascism.

4th March 2010, 09:15 AM	#13
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,646	Originally Posted by parky76 i am of the opinion that "National-Socialism" is a misnomer. Nazism had nothing to do with Socialism or Communism. it is a bastardization of the term, frequently used by right-wing extremists to allege an ideological link between Fascism and liberalism/progressivism. the true and more correct term to use...is either Nazism or Fascism. erm afaik it did indeed have to do with socialism. but actually im unsure, never looked to deep into that "ideology"
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

4th March 2010, 09:22 AM	#14
The Fallen Serpent Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Not Oregon, Texas Posts: 1,922	Originally Posted by DC erm afaik it did indeed have to do with socialism. but actually im unsure, never looked to deep into that "ideology" The Nazis courted and counted among their ranks socialists in the early days. Elements of the political ideology incorporated aspects of socialism as does any government system beyond pure anarchy. The major difference between national socialism (fascism) and traditional socialism, as far as I can tell, is the focus. National socialists control industries and markets for the good of the nation-state. Traditional socialists control industries and markets for the good of the labor force. At least in stated principles. Obviously Nazism failed to benefit the nation-state considering its short lived tenure and temporarily reduced international influence. The practice of communist states seems to completely disregard the well-being of the populat.
	__________________ You don't use science to show that you are right, you use science to become right. - Randall Munroe

4th March 2010, 10:19 AM	#15
Father Dagon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Mater Evropa, Sol-III Posts: 1,193	National-socialism has a lot of socialism, but plenty of other things, in the baggage. (Just like the ideologies of Pol Pot and Sendero Luminoso isn't plain communism.) Remember that the nazis and the commies of the Weimar Republic competed over the workers and had similar ideas about the jews.
	__________________ "Eh-ya-ya-ya-yahaah - e'yayayayaaaa... nhg'aaaaa... ngh'aaaa... h'yuh... h'yuh... HELP! HELP!... ff-ff-ff-FATHER! FATHER! YOG-SOTHOTH"

4th March 2010, 01:05 PM	#16
Arcade22 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Västerbotten, Sweden Posts: 1,823	Originally Posted by oldhat You're an extreme rightist. Yes, I'm extremely right! But i am no Nazi.
	__________________ The habit of the religious way of thinking has biased our mind so grievously that we are — terrified at ourselves in our nakedness and naturalness; it has degraded us so that we deem ourselves depraved by nature, born devils. Max Stirner

4th March 2010, 01:08 PM	#17
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	true socialism..does not discriminate between nationalities, religions, ethnicities...etc. true socialism sees all human beings as part of one family. true socialism, sees the conflicts between various groups as helping the elite maintain their control over the masses. true socialism, sees racism..sexism...homophobia...anti-Semitism...Islamophobia...as a tool of the elite..to divide, conquer, and maintain control. divide and conquer. or....the people, united, can never be defeated.
	Last edited by Thunder; 4th March 2010 at 01:10 PM.

4th March 2010, 01:12 PM	#18
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 9,647	Criticism of capitalism by the mentally deficient and insane? Thanks, that's just what I've been looking for all these years.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

5th March 2010, 08:48 AM	#19
Father Dagon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Mater Evropa, Sol-III Posts: 1,193	Originally Posted by timhau Criticism of capitalism by the mentally deficient and insane? Thanks, that's just what I've been looking for all these years. Dude! Do not despise your enemy... I don't recall the name, but one of those peak oil-dudes realized that his lectures was (and is) closely watched by nazis. Educated nazis that are biding their time for a historical comeback. Given almost all of the nazi-sites I've seen, antikap.nu is really good stuff. It has nothing of: The cult of violence, home-made uniforms, bad music (white power rock if you have to be pedestrian about it), WW2 or the cult of the leader (Hitler, anyone?) It doesn't even have "soft" things such as nazi-influenced esotericism (e.g. Wiligut and Evola). They use plainspoken language, directed to the middle class (a class the nazis for a long time didn't even try to court). All in all, this makes anitkap.nu a dangerous site.
	__________________ "Eh-ya-ya-ya-yahaah - e'yayayayaaaa... nhg'aaaaa... ngh'aaaa... h'yuh... h'yuh... HELP! HELP!... ff-ff-ff-FATHER! FATHER! YOG-SOTHOTH" Last edited by Father Dagon; 5th March 2010 at 08:49 AM.

5th March 2010, 11:10 AM	#20
blutoski Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 5,966	Originally Posted by CatOfGrey Not necessarily true. The small electronics industry could just as easily be filled with cheap, unsafe products. However, the last time I checked, it was difficult to find a toaster or hair dryer without an Underwriters Laboratory approval. Does "Consumer Reports" cover pharmaceuticals? They seem to review darn near everything else. And they do it with no industry influence whatsoever. My impression is that they actually limit themselves to just a few select categories of consumer products, and only a few models (usually top sellers) within each category. They're better than nothing, but not comprehensive. I can answer that for the Canadian version of Consumer Reports - they do not cover pharmaceuticals. This is because it is too expensive to verify the efficacy and safety of these products. They have a mediocre reputation for alternative medicine. The main reason for their reluctance to criticize, say, acupuncture, is that they consider it to be a belief system rather than a testable product claim. However, I do give them credit for their evaluation of deceptive homeopathic [marketing strategies]. [Consumerlab] does attempt to fill this space, but like Consumer Reports, they are just taking stabs at the big sellers due to the economics of this. They have probably examined one product for every hundred thousand on the market. I personally suspect that Consumer Reports has very little effect on consumer decisions, except in the tiny slice of prosumers who happen to be buying a product category reviewed in an issue at just the right time that the issue is current.
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett