What's the difference between faith & blind faith?

[pnerd]

What exactly is the difference (if any) between faith and blind faith? Is there any difference at all? Or am I missing something?

[HansMustermann]

About the same as between "gullible" and "bloody gullible"

[Wauthan]

It depends on the context where those words are used. To me the usual meaning of the term "blind faith" is that a statement spoken in faith can not be scrutinized further, while mere "faith" remains open to atleast a little doubt. Blind faith accepts completely that a statement must stand unopposed since opposing it is against the faith. Blind faith can be said to be the ultimate show of trust, since nothing is capable of swaying a trust that's blind to any new information.

And just as trust can be missplaced, so can faith be missdirected. Blind faith is therefore not usually seen in a positive light, since most people know that we can rarely place complete trust in anything. Faith in divine beings seems to be an exception to this with several religions claiming their gods to be infallible.

[fagin]

Originally Posted by pnerd

What exactly is the difference (if any) between faith and blind faith? Is there any difference at all? Or am I missing something?

Eric Clapton, Ginger Baker, Steve Winwood and Ric Grech

[Dave Rogers]

Blind Faith was a much better band.

Dave

ETA: Curse you, fagin!

[Darth Rotor]

Faith = Faith Hill?
Blind Faith = Eric Clapton Steve Winwood Ginger Baker Ric Grech

Difference:

Faith Hill is better looking, Blind Faith made better music.

(Fagin beat us to the punch, of course, but I needed to establish the qualitative differences).

[Cainkane1]

Ambroise Bierce said that faith is belief without proof in things said without knowledge of things without parallel. Thats my view on faith.

[Lanzy]

Vapor and Thick vapor?

[Last of the Fraggles]

For me, faith = believing in something for which there is no 'definite proof'; blind faith = ignoring evidence to the contrary and still continuing to believe in something

[pnerd]

Originally Posted by Wauthan

It depends on the context where those words are used. To me the usual meaning of the term "blind faith" is that a statement spoken in faith can not be scrutinized further, while mere "faith" remains open to atleast a little doubt. Blind faith accepts completely that a statement must stand unopposed since opposing it is against the faith. Blind faith can be said to be the ultimate show of trust, since nothing is capable of swaying a trust that's blind to any new information.

And just as trust can be missplaced, so can faith be missdirected. Blind faith is therefore not usually seen in a positive light, since most people know that we can rarely place complete trust in anything. Faith in divine beings seems to be an exception to this with several religions claiming their gods to be infallible.

.

Originally Posted by Last of the Fraggles

For me, faith = believing in something for which there is no 'definite proof'; blind faith = ignoring evidence to the contrary and still continuing to believe in something

.
Thanks to you both.

[Leif Roar]

Originally Posted by pnerd

What exactly is the difference (if any) between faith and blind faith? Is there any difference at all? Or am I missing something?

The way I see it, "Faith: I do not know but I still believe" while "Blind Faith: I know because I believe."

[pnerd]

Originally Posted by Leif Roar

The way I see it, "Faith: I do not know but I still believe" ...

I doubt if the believers would define their faith that way.

[Last of the Fraggles]

Originally Posted by pnerd

I doubt if the believers would define their faith that way.

Which is why the majority of believers would be filed under blind faith in my book.

[Myriad]

Yeah, the difference is all about doubt.

Faith involves assuming the risk of being wrong.

Blind faith replaces that with ignorance of the possibility of being wrong.

Since blind faith, faith without doubt, is seen as somehow more virtuous by many believers (at least in regard to religion), I think many people deny their doubt. I base that belief on my experience that talking to people of faith about faith, unless and until they reveal and acknowledge their doubt, is invariably dull and meaningless, like talking to a smiling photograph stapled to a Bible tract. When they unmask their doubt it also unmasks their actual faith.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Aepervius]

The difference between faith and blind faith, is that when someone (or a voice) tells you he is god and you should kill your child, you first action is NOT to get the sharpest kitchen knife you can find.

[Beerina]

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

Ambroise Bierce said that faith is belief without proof in things said without knowledge of things without parallel. Thats my view on faith.

And Mark Twain said faith was "believing what you know ain't true."


We really have a "spectrum" of faith that actually twists around 180 degrees on itself. Belief with some proof. Belief with no proof. Belief in the face of contrary proof.

[TShaitanaku]

Originally Posted by Wauthan

It depends on the context where those words are used. To me the usual meaning of the term "blind faith" is that a statement spoken in faith can not be scrutinized further, while mere "faith" remains open to atleast a little doubt. Blind faith accepts completely that a statement must stand unopposed since opposing it is against the faith. Blind faith can be said to be the ultimate show of trust, since nothing is capable of swaying a trust that's blind to any new information.

And just as trust can be missplaced, so can faith be missdirected. Blind faith is therefore not usually seen in a positive light, since most people know that we can rarely place complete trust in anything. Faith in divine beings seems to be an exception to this with several religions claiming their gods to be infallible.

I think I agree with some of your intentions, I'm just not sure that I agree with the way you've said it. To my consideration, blind faith is faith that holds itself blind to any contesting/contradicting of its tenets. Whereas simple faith acknowledges its own weak points and tries to understand how the object of faith can persist in the light of its weaknesses. Lost faith is the result of failure to reconcile the object of faith and percieved weaknesses.

To my thinking, blind faith is not hard or the ultimate of trust, rather it is the weakest form of faith, in that it requires nothing except closing your eyes to any contradiction. Their faith is so weak that to acknowledge any weakness or contradiction shakes or demolishes their faith. I have more respect and admiration for people who have lost their faith due irreconcillable differences, than I do for the blindly faithful. At the least they display a sense of intellectual curiosity and an openness to new considerations and ideas. The blindly faithful are the weakest in their faith, closed-minded and intellectually incurious, what is there to find admirable or worthy of recognition in that?

[hamelekim]

Originally Posted by pnerd

What exactly is the difference (if any) between faith and blind faith? Is there any difference at all? Or am I missing something?

You have faith, based on substance, that your Father and Mother will take care of you, when you are a Child. It is the same kind of "faith".

Blind faith would be faith given zero evidence, like you believe a serial killer will take care of you, rather that murder you. That would be blind faith.

Christian faith is that of a Child and their parents.

[Lothian]

Originally Posted by hamelekim

You have faith, based on substance, that your Father and Mother will take care of you, when you are a Child. It is the same kind of "faith".

Blind faith would be faith given zero evidence, like you believe a serial killer will take care of you, rather that murder you. That would be blind faith.

Christian faith is that of a Child and their parents.

Wrong. The thing believed in does not make the faith "blind" it is down to the believer.

TShaitanaku & Last of the Fraggles pretty much nailed it for me,

[hamelekim]

What the Bible says about faith.

Heb 11:1
1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of(A) things not seen.

Luke 17:5
The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!" He replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you."

Romans 10
17So(Y) faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Romans 14
1As for(A) the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2(B) One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and(C) let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4(D) Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master[a] that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5(E) One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike.(F) Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Heb 11:6
Without faith it is impossible to please God....

1 Corinthians 2:14
14The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are(A)(B) folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 1:27-29
27But(A) God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise;(B) God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28God chose what is low and despised in the world, even(C) things that are not, to(D) bring to nothing things that are, 29so(E) that no human being[a] might boast in the presence of God.

In other words, it is impossible to reason your way to God, because if you could, then you could boast about it. Which is why no matter how intelligent you are, you cannot find God unless he calls you.

This is why Christianity is foolishness to Skeptics, and why they are lost. This is why salvation is not possible for natural man.

Further this is what the Bible says of the poor and faith.

James 2:5
5Listen, my beloved brothers,(A) has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be(B) rich in faith and heirs of(C) the kingdom,(D) which he has promised to those who love him?

God has choosen the foolish things of this world to shame with wise. Because in their wisdom they did not seek and have faith in God.

Psalm 14:1-3
The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works, There is none who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one.

Psalm 10:4
The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God;
God is in none of his thoughts.

Romans 1:18-32
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.


If you cannot have faith, if it is foolishness to you, then you will never be saved. Because you are saved by the foolishness of faith, which comes through hearing the word of God, and believing in your heart that it is true.

[pnerd]

Originally Posted by hamelekim

If you cannot have faith, if it is foolishness to you, then you will never be saved. Because you are saved by the foolishness of faith, which comes through hearing the word of God, and believing in your heart that it is true.

Then most of us here are doomed I guess.

[RandFan]

My mother-in-law defines "blind faith" as never, ever questioning your beliefs. The more you question and struggle with faith the less virtuous the faith.

9/11 hijackers had blind faith. Those who would consider committing atrocity in the name of religion but who question whether it is right and ultimately decide against it don't have the virtuous kind of faith.

When Abraham took his son to kill him on god's command he did so with blind faith.

Religious faith doesn't in and of itself scare me. Blind faith does.

[hamelekim]

Originally Posted by pnerd

Then most of us here are doomed I guess.

Indeed...

1 Corinthians 1:19-25
19For it is written,

(A) "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart."

20(B) Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age?(C) Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22For(D) Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23but we preach Christ(E) crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ(F) the power of God and(G) the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by hamelekim

Indeed...

1 Corinthians 1:19-25
19For it is written,

(A) "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart."

The faithful are not called sheep for nothing.

Don't use your brain to figure out whether it is ok to kill children. The Bible says that it is.
Don't use your brain to figure out whether it is ok to kill homosexuals. The Bible says that it is.
Don't use your brain to figure anything out. Just read the Bible and believe.

Fortunately, those of you who are confused by the Bible, or any religious or spiritual conflict you can listen to hamelekim or any Imam, minister, preacher or priest of your choice. They are not wise and they have no discernment.

Nice huh? I mean, huh?

[laca]

Originally Posted by hamelekim

You have faith, based on substance, that your Father and Mother will take care of you, when you are a Child. It is the same kind of "faith".

Blind faith would be faith given zero evidence, like you believe a serial killer will take care of you, rather that murder you. That would be blind faith.

Christian faith is that of a Child and their parents.

Oh, the irony...

Actually, since (based on your precious bible) your god makes the worst serial killer look like a newborn baby, Christian faith is even worse than "you believe a serial killer will take care of you, rather than murder you".

Thanks for giving such a great analogy.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by hamelekim

Indeed...

1 Corinthians 1:19-25
19For it is written,

(A) "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart."

Is there anything more idiotic than to reason via logic that reason and logic are wrong?

[pnerd]

Originally Posted by hamelekim

1 Corinthians 1:19-25
19For it is written,

(A) "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart."

.

Originally Posted by RandFan

The faithful are not called sheep for nothing.

Don't use your brain to figure out whether it is ok to kill children. The Bible says that it is.
Don't use your brain to figure out whether it is ok to kill homosexuals. The Bible says that it is.
Don't use your brain to figure anything out. Just read the Bible and believe.

.
I'd rather have wisdom and discernment.

[laca]

Originally Posted by RandFan

Is there anything more idiotic than to reason via logic that reason and logic are wrong?

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/768...wersattack.jpg

Well, I can't think of anything, but I'm sure hamelekim can prove me wrong.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by pnerd

.

.
I'd rather have wisdom and discernment.

I'm sorry but god didn't give you those things for you to use them. They are there to tempt you. They are the ways of Satan, the evil one. Pray and ask god to take wisdom and discernment from you. Be as a child. Of course, if prayer doesn't work you can always get a frontal lobotomy.

[pnerd]

Originally Posted by RandFan

I'm sorry but god didn't give you those things for you to use them. They are there to tempt you. They are the ways of Satan, the evil one. Pray and ask god to take wisdom and discernment from you. Be as a child. Of course, if prayer doesn't work you can always get a frontal lobotomy.

[hamelekim]

Originally Posted by RandFan

My mother-in-law defines "blind faith" as never, ever questioning your beliefs. The more you question and struggle with faith the less virtuous the faith.

9/11 hijackers had blind faith. Those who would consider committing atrocity in the name of religion but who question whether it is right and ultimately decide against it don't have the virtuous kind of faith.

When Abraham took his son to kill him on god's command he did so with blind faith.

Religious faith doesn't in and of itself scare me. Blind faith does.

Some faith leads to profit and some to destruction. The 9/11 hijackers had faith in their beliefs, just as you have faith in your beliefs. Each person has to come to their own conclusion, and solidify in their hearts which way they believe is right. In the end we will all be judged for our decisions in life, you just have to make sure that, in your heart, you know you made the right decision.

Abraham was promised many things by God, and God had kept his promises up until that point. I don't see how Abraham's faith was in vain. He was justified in his faith, and God showed that he was a just and righteous God.

God very well could have allowed Abraham to kill his son, and then resurrect him, or do numerous other things, but his promise would have been fulfilled. So I don't see how Abraham's faith was wrong.

You also have to separate what the followers do from what the holy book says to do. Given what Jesus said, and what the apostles lived, I don't see how you can argue that Christian faith is somehow a bad thing for the world.

I think half the issues that people have with the OT is that we all think we don't deserve death, that we are innocent. The Bible says we are not innocent, and we all deserve death. I can see how, if you do not believe this, God in the OT could be cruel and evil.

[hamelekim]

Originally Posted by RandFan

I'm sorry but god didn't give you those things for you to use them. They are there to tempt you. They are the ways of Satan, the evil one. Pray and ask god to take wisdom and discernment from you. Be as a child. Of course, if prayer doesn't work you can always get a frontal lobotomy.

Um the Bible says to be wise and to have spiritual discernment. But the wisdom of man is not the same thing as the wisdom of God.

[hamelekim]

Originally Posted by RandFan

The faithful are not called sheep for nothing.

Don't use your brain to figure out whether it is ok to kill children. The Bible says that it is.
Don't use your brain to figure out whether it is ok to kill homosexuals. The Bible says that it is.
Don't use your brain to figure anything out. Just read the Bible and believe.

Fortunately, those of you who are confused by the Bible, or any religious or spiritual conflict you can listen to hamelekim or any Imam, minister, preacher or priest of your choice. They are not wise and they have no discernment.

Nice huh? I mean, huh?

The Bible says it is not OK to kill children or homosexuals. You seem to miss the point about not being under the law anymore.

Nowhere does Jesus say to kill anyone who we disagree with. In fact he says to do good and pray for those who hate and despise us. That is a far cry from, "destroy your enemies and anyone who doesn't do God's will".

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by RandFan

I'm sorry but god didn't give you those things for you to use them. They are there to tempt you. They are the ways of Satan, the evil one. Pray and ask god to take wisdom and discernment from you. Be as a child. Of course, if prayer doesn't work you can always get a frontal lobotomy.

Originally Posted by pnerd

Religion, where people actually brag about ignorance and stupidity.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by hamelekim

The Bible says it is not OK to kill children or homosexuals.

Where?

Quote:

You seem to miss the point about not being under the law anymore.

You seem to miss the point that the 10 commandments ARE the law, written in the OT.

Quote:

Nowhere does Jesus say to kill anyone who we disagree with. In fact he says to do good and pray for those who hate and despise us. That is a far cry from, "destroy your enemies and anyone who doesn't do God's will".

When you disown the 10 commandments and fight for the rights of gays and lesbians then you will have credibility. Not before.

Your ala carte approach to god's commandments is dishonest.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by hamelekim

Um the Bible says to be wise and to have spiritual discernment. But the wisdom of man is not the same thing as the wisdom of God.

So the internal combustion engine doesn't work? So Islam is just as valid as Christianity? So circular reasoning is ok in your book.

Hammy: The Bible is the truth.
RandFan: Based on what theory?
Hammy: The Bible says so.
RandFan: Ohhhhh......

[laca]

Originally Posted by hamelekim

Some faith leads to profit and some to destruction. The 9/11 hijackers had faith in their beliefs, just as you have faith in your beliefs. Each person has to come to their own conclusion, and solidify in their hearts which way they believe is right. In the end we will all be judged for our decisions in life, you just have to make sure that, in your heart, you know you made the right decision.

The 9/11 hijackers were most probably 100% sure in their hearts that they made the right decision. Now what?

Originally Posted by hamelekim

Abraham was promised many things by God, and God had kept his promises up until that point. I don't see how Abraham's faith was in vain. He was justified in his faith, and God showed that he was a just and righteous God.

God very well could have allowed Abraham to kill his son, and then resurrect him, or do numerous other things, but his promise would have been fulfilled. So I don't see how Abraham's faith was wrong.

In case he existed, he was most likely delusional, talking to an imaginary being and all. That was and still is, wrong.

Originally Posted by hamelekim

You also have to separate what the followers do from what the holy book says to do. Given what Jesus said, and what the apostles lived, I don't see how you can argue that Christian faith is somehow a bad thing for the world.

If someone does something the "holy book" says and it's good, it proves that Christian faith is good. When someone does something bad the "holy book" says, like killing homosexuals, disobeying teenagers etc., the Christian faith is still good? Nice.

Originally Posted by hamelekim

I think half the issues that people have with the OT is that we all think we don't deserve death, that we are innocent. The Bible says we are not innocent, and we all deserve death. I can see how, if you do not believe this, God in the OT could be cruel and evil.

We don't deserve death. We don't deserve it like glass doesn't deserve to break if it's dropped, or iron deserves to rust, or wood deserves to burn, or... It's just our nature. A human body can only take so much.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by hamelekim

Each person has to come to their own conclusion, and solidify in their hearts which way they believe is right.

Which leads to atrocity.

Quote:

I think half the issues that people have with the OT is that we all think we don't deserve death, that we are innocent. The Bible says we are not innocent, and we all deserve death. I can see how, if you do not believe this, God in the OT could be cruel and evil.

I see how one can justify atrocity through religion.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Your kind of apologetics represents the very worst, the very most evil of humanity. Not that you are inherently more evil than I only that I realize my capacity for inhumanity and I won't try and excuse it.

Immoral is immoral. Telling a father to kill his son is immoral (regardless of what god may or may not do). If not then there is no such thing as morality.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by hamelekim

Um the Bible says to be wise and to have spiritual discernment. But the wisdom of man is not the same thing as the wisdom of God.

So, you can use your brain so long as you are a sheep and do what you are told. Riiiiight.

[hamelekim]

Originally Posted by laca

Oh, the irony...

Actually, since (based on your precious bible) your god makes the worst serial killer look like a newborn baby, Christian faith is even worse than "you believe a serial killer will take care of you, rather than murder you".

Thanks for giving such a great analogy.

You cannot argue that God is evil for killing people. God's declarations of what is right and wrong are based on his nature, which is as good as an objective morality, since he always existed and his nature has always been that way.

If you disagree with God, you are disagreeing with the source of all morality. That's a hard argument to make, that you are right and an all knowing God who has always existed, and never changes, is wrong.