Eddie Benitez Offers $50K Psychic Challenge

[grunion]

According to the "Sprititual Pathways" column of the Phoenix Examiner website, "musician and spiritualist" Eddie Benitez believes that psychics like Sylvia Browne and James Van Praagh are "frauds who are conning vulnerable people out of their money." He is offering $50,000 to them or to any psychic who can prove "communication with the spirit world." It sounds from the article as if he expects to film a psychic showdown with any of these con artists to prove that only his visions are the real ones.

Benitez was featured in a recent episode of the Discovery Channel show "A Haunting" in which he claimed communication with paranormal spirits.

So here we have a true believer taking a page out of Randi's book in an attempt to corner the market. One wonders if any of these media hungry frauds who have been ignoring Randi's challenge might take this guy up since undoubtedly the atmosphere would be quite a bit more favorable. And they get to be on TV. But no way will $50K be enough.

[Lanzy]

50K; 500K; whatever, his money is safe.

[grunion]

Actually I think he stands a big chance of screwing up if the Discovery Channel mentality sets the level of scientific rigor required to get the prize.

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by grunion

Actually I think he stands a big chance of screwing up if the Discovery Channel mentality sets the level of scientific rigor required to get the prize.

Agreed. That would be a fiasco.

[dropzone]

But funny.

[wardenclyffe]

He should be able to win it himself so he can show the rigorous standards that must be met. Once he demonstrates his own powers, I'm sure he'll have a long line of claimants who will be happy to match his achievements and take his $50K.

Ward

[MaryEllen O'Brien]

Hello. I wrote the article about the Eddie Benitez challenge to psychics, mediums and ghost hunters. I would like to weigh in with a couple of things from myself, and also from Eddie.

First, there seems to be an assumption in this thread that because Eddie was featured in an episode of the Discovery Channel show, A Haunting, that the Discovery Channel is involved in this challenge Eddie is putting out there.

This challenge is from Eddie — and it will be filmed by Eddie. The person setting the criteria is Eddie. It's a personal challenge, between Eddie Benitez and any psi takers.

The money is not Eddie's. The challenge is being sponsored by Creative Music Entertainment, an East Coast promotions company, as stated in the article. Eddie himself has no interests held in that company.

When I wrote the article I thought of Randi's long-standing million dollar challenge which has never been paid out. I gave props to an earlier challenge. Having said that, if you feel Eddie has "taken a page out of Randi's book" then Eddie would like to point out that Randi has taken scores of pages out of Harry Houdini's book. It's a free market.

Having said that — the offer of money if spirit communication can be proven is where any and all similarities in the challenge stop.

Eddie's challenge is spiritual, not scientific, though the criteria will not allow for trickery and the obvious fraudulent scams.

Eddie is a true believer yes — which is precisely why he is in a position to
gauge authenticity. Eddie has spiritual gifts and yes, he is matching his gifts, which he asserts are authentic — in a challenge to others. Someone with an authentic gift, could walk away with $50k. The rest, with their heads down.

Grunion wrote: "It sounds from the article as if he expects to film a psychic showdown with any of these con artists to prove that only his visions are the real ones."
Let's be clear. Eddie's does not claim to have "visions." He claims to have real communication and encounters with spirits, and angels. Not visions.

Let's also be clear what the other differences between Eddie Benitez and Randi are. Randi is a magician. A skeptic. A "materialist" (a eupemism for atheist). Randi's criteria are for magic, not even paranormal purposes.

Eddie is a man of faith, not religion. He is not a magician. Spirituality is what he teaches, faith in God, and in the Son of God, Jesus. (Who is not God, but God's son.) He believes the spirit realm is real, and that there are spirits from God, and also demonic spirits. He believes mediums, if they have spirit contact, are consorting with the dark side, spirit imposters who claim to be the spirits of the dearly departed.

Determining the authenticity of the spirits and where they come from is one thing. Because some of these mediums and psychics and ghosthunters are playing with forces they do not recognize and are gullibly being used. Others are simply charlatans using tricks and cons.

I am also at work on Eddie's biography, Angels on My Stage, so my knowledge of Eddie's world and beliefs goes beyond the short article you refer to.

My own credentials are both in the media and academia. I'm a veteran broadcaster, published author, freelance writer — and a clairvoyant. (Not mediumship.) I'm also a theolgian, with two graduate degrees in theology, studies that, btw, led to my rejection of all organized religion. I too, am in the spirituality, not religion camp.

Eddie would like it to be known that he is willing to meet James Randi in a challenge at any time. He has offered to tell Randi the date and time of his "ascension" as well.

On the other hand, he wonders why, if Randi is never going to really engage in a challenge and give the million dollars away — why doesn't he donate that money to the Randi Educational Foundation and ease the need for donations?


I hope this helps to further your conversation. Thank you.

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

On the other hand, he wonders why, if Randi is never going to really engage in a challenge and give the million dollars away — why doesn't he donate that money to the Randi Educational Foundation and ease the need for donations?

It is not James Randi's money. The money was donated to the JREF for the purpose of the challenge.

What do you mean by "if Randi is never going to really engage in a challenge" - ? The Challenge has been in operation for years with hundreds of applicants and preliminary tests.

Please see this section of the forum for current applicant activity: [Million Dollar Challenge]

[CJW]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Eddie is a man of faith, not religion. He is not a magician. Spirituality is what he teaches, faith in God, and in the Son of God, Jesus. (Who is not God, but God's son.) He believes the spirit realm is real, and that there are spirits from God, and also demonic spirits. He believes mediums, if they have spirit contact, are consorting with the dark side, spirit imposters who claim to be the spirits of the dearly departed.

Mary Ellen - I think it's fantastic that you came and posted here! Welcome!

I have a question about the part I quoted above...If a challenger took Eddie's challenge but it was determined that they were consorting with demon spirits, would that be considered a successful test and would the sponsor have to pay out the $50k?

Chris

[blutoski]

Based on MaryEllen O'Brien's comments, I look forward to seeing Benitez' objective testing protocols and criteria. What do 'pass' and 'fail' look like?

[Pure_Argent]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

When I wrote the article I thought of Randi's long-standing million dollar challenge which has never been paid out. I gave props to an earlier challenge. Having said that, if you feel Eddie has "taken a page out of Randi's book" then Eddie would like to point out that Randi has taken scores of pages out of Harry Houdini's book. It's a free market.

Having said that — the offer of money if spirit communication can be proven is where any and all similarities in the challenge stop.

Eddie's challenge is spiritual, not scientific, though the criteria will not allow for trickery and the obvious fraudulent scams.

How so?

Quote:

Eddie is a true believer yes — which is precisely why he is in a position to gauge authenticity.

Ever heard of confirmation bias?

Quote:

Eddie has spiritual gifts

Proof?

Quote:

and yes, he is matching his gifts, which he asserts are authentic — in a challenge to others. Someone with an authentic gift, could walk away with $50k. The rest, with their heads down.

Grunion wrote: "It sounds from the article as if he expects to film a psychic showdown with any of these con artists to prove that only his visions are the real ones."
Let's be clear. Eddie's does not claim to have "visions." He claims to have real communication and encounters with spirits, and angels. Not visions.

Visions, communication and encounters, whatever. The thing is, he's making a paranormal claim.

Quote:

Let's also be clear what the other differences between Eddie Benitez and Randi are. Randi is a magician. A skeptic. A "materialist" (a eupemism for atheist).

You say that as if "atheist" is a bad thing.

Quote:

Randi's criteria are for magic, not even paranormal purposes.

Uh, no. Have you done any research on the Million Dollar Challenge at all?

Quote:

Eddie is a man of faith, not religion. He is not a magician. Spirituality is what he teaches, faith in God, and in the Son of God, Jesus. (Who is not God, but God's son.) He believes the spirit realm is real, and that there are spirits from God, and also demonic spirits. He believes mediums, if they have spirit contact, are consorting with the dark side, spirit imposters who claim to be the spirits of the dearly departed.

So he's a woo. Yeah, kinda guessed that. Again, confirmation bias.

Quote:

Determining the authenticity of the spirits and where they come from is one thing. Because some of these mediums and psychics and ghosthunters are playing with forces they do not recognize and are gullibly being used. Others are simply charlatans using tricks and cons.

I take it, then, that you are likewise a believer. Therefore, you also have confirmation bias.

Quote:

I am also at work on Eddie's biography, Angels on My Stage, so my knowledge of Eddie's world and beliefs goes beyond the short article you refer to. My own credentials are both in the media and academia. I'm a veteran broadcaster, published author, freelance writer — and a clairvoyant. (Not mediumship.)

O_o

O RLY NAO

Have you ever subjected your powers to scientific study?

Quote:

I'm also a theolgian, with two graduate degrees in theology, studies that, btw, led to my rejection of all organized religion. I too, am in the spirituality, not religion camp.

Congrats.

Quote:

Eddie would like it to be known that he is willing to meet James Randi in a challenge at any time. He has offered to tell Randi the date and time of his "ascension" as well.

Well, then it's up to "Eddie" to apply to the Challenge. It's open to all comers, but they must initiate the process. Randi isn't going to go around asking all woo-ists if they want to take the challenge.

Quote:

On the other hand, he wonders why, if Randi is never going to really engage in a challenge and give the million dollars away — why doesn't he donate that money to the Randi Educational Foundation and ease the need for donations?

See the section of the forums titled "Million Dollar Challenge"? Click it. Every thread you see in there is a separate challenge filed by people like Eddie. Every one of them has failed.

[MaryEllen O'Brien]

CJW,

No, consorting with demonic spirits would not win the prize. Because those folks always insist the spirits they are aligned with are good and from "God" though they never engage in discernment of spirits — maybe afraid of the answer. So yes, their is belief in possession by, or channeling spirits that are anything but good. That is then, fraud. No one is going to go to a medium and say, "would you ask your little demon buddy to get my deceased grandmother over here for a conversation." The believe it's grandma. They want to believe it. And so the conjurer gives them what they want — but it's a lie.

This is not something Randi would bother with, I take it, since he does not believe in the spirit world to begin with.

[Moochie]

Originally Posted by grunion

According to the "Sprititual Pathways" column of the Phoenix Examiner website, "musician and spiritualist" Eddie Benitez believes that psychics like Sylvia Browne and James Van Praagh are "frauds who are conning vulnerable people out of their money." He is offering $50,000 to them or to any psychic who can prove "communication with the spirit world." It sounds from the article as if he expects to film a psychic showdown with any of these con artists to prove that only his visions are the real ones.

Benitez was featured in a recent episode of the Discovery Channel show "A Haunting" in which he claimed communication with paranormal spirits.

So here we have a true believer taking a page out of Randi's book in an attempt to corner the market. One wonders if any of these media hungry frauds who have been ignoring Randi's challenge might take this guy up since undoubtedly the atmosphere would be quite a bit more favorable. And they get to be on TV. But no way will $50K be enough.

Looks to me like he's just garnering a little publicity for himself, knowing full well that those competitors named will never allow themselves to be tested. Heck, it's a win-win for the entire bunch.


M.

[Moochie]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

<snip>


Eddie is a man of faith, not religion. He is not a magician. Spirituality is what he teaches, faith in God, and in the Son of God, Jesus. (Who is not God, but God's son.) He believes the spirit realm is real, and that there are spirits from God, and also demonic spirits. He believes mediums, if they have spirit contact, are consorting with the dark side, spirit imposters who claim to be the spirits of the dearly departed.



<snip>

Eddie sounds like a fairly immature person. Or maybe just a good self-promoter in the woo economy. In any event, he gets no special dispensations here. His beliefs are really a bit of a yawn, frankly.


M.

[MaryEllen O'Brien]

And atheism isn't a confirmation bias? LMAO. I made no judgment on Randi's position, simply contrasted Randi with Eddie — they are coming from two different places in their challenge.

Eddie doesn't claim to be a paranormal purveyor — but a man who is spiritual. He says if someone uses the word paranormal about him, that's their issue, not his. If someone confuses spirituality with the paranormal, that is their issue, not his.

[MaryEllen O'Brien]

Ah, so atheism is maturity. Thanks for the enlightenment!

[Pure_Argent]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

CJW,

No, consorting with demonic spirits would not win the prize. Because those folks always insist the spirits they are aligned with are good and from "God" though they never engage in discernment of spirits — maybe afraid of the answer. So yes, their is belief in possession by, or channeling spirits that are anything but good. That is then, fraud. No one is going to go to a medium and say, "would you ask your little demon buddy to get my deceased grandmother over here for a conversation." The believe it's grandma. They want to believe it. And so the conjurer gives them what they want — but it's a lie.

And what are the criteria for determining if a given spirit is "demonic" or not? I think I spy a back-door escape route for our "psychic" friend here...

Quote:

This is not something Randi would bother with, I take it, since he does not believe in the spirit world to begin with.

On the contrary, this is EXACTLY what the Million Dollar Challenge is all about.

[MaryEllen O'Brien]

As to subjecting myself to scientific study. I don't have "powers." I have sight.

Clairvoyance is an art, not a science. It is also NOT mediumship. I don't have anything to prove, and I don't claim to speak to the deceased loved ones of people who come to me.

[MaryEllen O'Brien]

A spirit should be asked one question: Do you believe that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.
No spirit that is not from God will answer that in the affirmative.
And that test has been around for 2,000 years.

[CJW]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

CJW,

No, consorting with demonic spirits would not win the prize. Because those folks always insist the spirits they are aligned with are good and from "God" though they never engage in discernment of spirits — maybe afraid of the answer. So yes, their is belief in possession by, or channeling spirits that are anything but good. That is then, fraud. No one is going to go to a medium and say, "would you ask your little demon buddy to get my deceased grandmother over here for a conversation." The believe it's grandma. They want to believe it. And so the conjurer gives them what they want — but it's a lie.

This is not something Randi would bother with, I take it, since he does not believe in the spirit world to begin with.

I am making an assumption here, but isn't it possible that a demonic spirit may employ deceptive tactics in consorting with a medium? It may be that the demon spirit has the medium utterly convinced that the medium is talking to a good spirit or directly to the deceased.

If the medium can convince Eddie that he or she is in touch with the spirit world, then the next step is validating the quality of the contact (good versus evil). The following situation could arrise under this scenario: both parties are in agreement about spirit contact but according to Eddie it is a Demonic contact. The medium disagrees insisting it is a genuine, good contact.

I would think that under this scenario, there could legal exposure for Eddie and he could find himelf subject to a lawsuit. Its a big risk.

[Pure_Argent]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

As to subjecting myself to scientific study. I don't have "powers." I have sight.

That's a power.

Quote:

Clairvoyance is an art, not a science. It is also NOT mediumship. I don't have anything to prove, and I don't claim to speak to the deceased loved ones of people who come to me.

But even if clairvoyance isn't science, you should still be able to prove that it exists. You can scientifically prove that paintings exist.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

A spirit should be asked one question: Do you believe that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.
No spirit that is not from God will answer that in the affirmative.
And that test has been around for 2,000 years.

And demons can't lie? Isn't Satan the father of lies?

[Moochie]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Ah, so atheism is maturity. Thanks for the enlightenment!

Who said that? I think we get into a whole lot of trouble when we begin to compare "isms," such as ideologies. Suffice it to say I'm not claiming any special abilities, but you and Mr. Benitez are, so the onus is on you to show some evidence that will stand up against the scientific method -- which is simply a way to test such claims while eliminating every possibility of cheating.


M.

[Pure_Argent]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

And atheism isn't a confirmation bias? LMAO. I made no judgment on Randi's position, simply contrasted Randi with Eddie — they are coming from two different places in their challenge.

Eddie doesn't claim to be a paranormal purveyor — but a man who is spiritual. He says if someone uses the word paranormal about him, that's their issue, not his. If someone confuses spirituality with the paranormal, that is their issue, not his.

Atheism is not, by itself, confirmation bias. You can have biased atheists, but as most atheists are skeptics, it's less frequent. And when you have someone like Ed, you can quite safely assume bias.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Ah, so atheism is maturity. Thanks for the enlightenment!

No one said that.

[MaryEllen O'Brien]

Lastly — the events in Eddie's life that have shaped him include tragedies and illness — cancer, losses, etc. And then there have been healings and of course, the gift of his melodies, his music, that has come out of it all. He has been blessed by those melodies, which he claims come from angelic sources.

He respects Randi, and Randi's predecesors, like Houdini. Randi has his way, Eddie has his. Randi's way is scientific, Eddie's is spiritual. For Eddie, science is theory — always changing, not reliable, not in these matters.

Given Randi's own bias, if Jesus himself stood before him, he wouldn't believe it, or recognize him. Yes?

Eddie entertains the criticisms here, thoughtfully. He also recommends that critics listen to his music — close your eyes, and listen. You can hear his music, he is a World Music artist, a legendary guitarist who also happens to have spiritual gifts —*on his MySpace music page. Just google it.

He doesn't judge Randi, and should not be judged either, personally. "They know me not to judge me."

It's also interesting that I'm the only one I see here using my real name, not hiding behind avatars and usernames. At least Moochie has a photo of real person, (him or not), not a dog or a cartoon. How about you all come out from behind the curtain?

Wishing you all peace.

[grunion]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Hello. I wrote the article about the Eddie Benitez challenge to psychics, mediums and ghost hunters. I would like to weigh in with a couple of things from myself, and also from Eddie.

Welcome to the JREF Forum, Ms. O'Brien, and thank you for your clarifying comments.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

This challenge is from Eddie — and it will be filmed by Eddie. The person setting the criteria is Eddie. It's a personal challenge, between Eddie Benitez and any psi takers.

I'm curious to know why Eddie believes his paranormal powers are real but those of the psychics he names are fraudulent. Does he hope to gain prominence as a psychic as a result of participating in this challenge?

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

The money is not Eddie's. The challenge is being sponsored by Creative Music Entertainment, an East Coast promotions company, as stated in the article. Eddie himself has no interests held in that company.

Does Creative Music plan on promoting Mr. Benitez' career as a psychic? It looks like this is the beginning of a publicity campaign to that effect.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

When I wrote the article I thought of Randi's long-standing million dollar challenge which has never been paid out. I gave props to an earlier challenge. Having said that, if you feel Eddie has "taken a page out of Randi's book" then Eddie would like to point out that Randi has taken scores of pages out of Harry Houdini's book. It's a free market.

I did not intend the "page out of Randi's book" comment to be critical of Mr. Benitez. I was simply paraphrasing what you wrote in your article. It does sound here as if you are speaking on Eddie's behalf. Are you in his employ? Or just "rooting for him" and thus using your column for his promotion?

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Eddie's challenge is spiritual, not scientific, though the criteria will not allow for trickery and the obvious fraudulent scams.

I think you may be misunderstanding what is meant by Randi's challenge being "scientific." It is not taken to mean that advanced scientific knowledge and measurements must be employed. Randi simply insists that the claimant state clearly what their claim is, and then prove it. His foundation can assist in the development of a protocol to test the claim so the outcome is unequivocal and no trickery is used. The JREF does not get involved in the actual testing, as far as I know.

If Eddie's challenge is to have actual merit (and if Creative Entertainment wants to assure that they are not being defrauded of $50K) it would make sense that they, too, agree on a protocol with their claimants. It's quite possible that the participants in this forum, having a keen interest in the topic, may be interested in assisting with the development of the protocol, but I can't guarantee it.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Eddie is a true believer yes — which is precisely why he is in a position to gauge authenticity. Eddie has spiritual gifts and yes, he is matching his gifts, which he asserts are authentic — in a challenge to others. Someone with an authentic gift, could walk away with $50k. The rest, with their heads down.

By "true believer" I meant that it seems that Eddie truly believes he has paranormal powers. I agree with Eddie in that the majority of psychics know full well that their claims are fraudulent, and use trickery to convince others to part with large sums of money. Please do not be offended, but in all honesty, I get the sense that Eddie is honest but deluded. I did not see the Discovery Channel show that you reference but I have seen many similar shows and remain unconvinced. I would ask you on Eddie's behalf (unless you can convince him to post here in his own words), is there any way he can be unconvinced that he has paranormal powers? Is there any evidence or explanation he can be shown that would make him think to himself, "wow, I guess I was mistaken - there is a natural explanation for what I saw/felt/smelled/heard."?

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Grunion wrote: "It sounds from the article as if he expects to film a psychic showdown with any of these con artists to prove that only his visions are the real ones."
Let's be clear. Eddie's does not claim to have "visions." He claims to have real communication and encounters with spirits, and angels. Not visions.

My apologies for misstating his claim. Can you clarify in what form this communication with spirits and angels takes place? Can he see them? Can he hear them? Only under certain conditions? How does he know that they are spirits and angels?

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Let's also be clear what the other differences between Eddie Benitez and Randi are. Randi is a magician. A skeptic. A "materialist" (a eupemism for atheist). Randi's criteria are for magic, not even paranormal purposes.

I won't engage right now in a long discussion about materialism and athiesm but it seems rather clear that you hold these notions in disdain. But it is Randi's experience as a magician that made him perfectly suited to root out the trickery used by fraudulent "psychics" and "paranormalists" (Uri Geller being the most widely known example.) I'd refer you to his book "Flim Flam" in which he discusses in great detail the claims made by "scientists" based upon observations they made in a laboratory setting, but how Randi's knowledge of trickery was able to uncover the purported psychics for what they were - tricksters and scam artists.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Determining the authenticity of the spirits and where they come from is one thing. Because some of these mediums and psychics and ghosthunters are playing with forces they do not recognize and are gullibly being used. Others are simply charlatans using tricks and cons.

Well, we agree on the charlatans part. But I maintain that the "forces they do not recognize" also have natural explanations.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

My own credentials are both in the media and academia. I'm a veteran broadcaster, published author, freelance writer — and a clairvoyant. (Not mediumship.) I'm also a theolgian, with two graduate degrees in theology, studies that, btw, led to my rejection of all organized religion. I too, am in the spirituality, not religion camp.

I wonder what claims you make about your powers of "clairvoyance" and if would you be willing to put them to a simple test.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Eddie would like it to be known that he is willing to meet James Randi in a challenge at any time. He has offered to tell Randi the date and time of his "ascension" as well.

There are instructions in one of the links at the top of this page that would allow Eddie to do just that. And he stands to win a million bucks if he is right! Not to mention shutting the mouths of a lot of skeptics really quickly.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

On the other hand, he wonders why, if Randi is never going to really engage in a challenge and give the million dollars away — why doesn't he donate that money to the Randi Educational Foundation and ease the need for donations?

Again, you are speaking for him here, so I think perhaps it is you doing the wondering and not Eddie. The million dollars has been earmarked in a special fund specifically for the challenge - those were the conditions upon which it was donated. In fact (though I am not really up to date on this) because of the financial strain on the JREF, I believe some changes are underway in how that money is managed which may permit Randi to put it to better use. But the Million Dollar Challenge serves as an excellent publicity statement for skepticism. It is there waiting to be claimed.

[grunion]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

At least Moochie has a photo of real person, (him or not), not a dog or a cartoon.

Huh? I thought that was a dog in his photo.

[Xulld]

Quote:

Eddie's challenge is spiritual, not scientific, though the criteria will not allow for trickery and the obvious fraudulent scams.

This says it all. If the criteria are objective, there will be a method to determine the truth of any given claim, that method will be scientific.

If the criteria are subjective, non rigorous, and non-demonstrable it will be a 50K dollar give away based on personal preference.

[Pure_Argent]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Given Randi's own bias, if Jesus himself stood before him, he wouldn't believe it, or recognize him. Yes?

Actually, if this person could prove that he was THE Jesus, Randi (and everyone else here) would believe. We're skeptics. Give us proof, and we will believe.

Quote:

It's also interesting that I'm the only one I see here using my real name, not hiding behind avatars and usernames. At least Moochie has a photo of real person, (him or not), not a dog or a cartoon. How about you all come out from behind the curtain?

What? Why?
Giving out personal information on websites open to everyone is not the best idea. And in any case, even if I were to give you my name, age, sex, location, Social Security, and blood type, you wouldn't know me. So, until further notice, I am just plain old Pure_Argent.

Quote:

Wishing you all peace.

Same. Live long and prosper.

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

No, consorting with demonic spirits would not win the prize. Because those folks always insist the spirits they are aligned with are good and from "God" though they never engage in discernment of spirits — maybe afraid of the answer.

I find this hard to accept. Having been involved in testing applicants who are mediums, every one I have been involved with seems perfectly aware that they could be misled from the other side and do make distinctions between good and bad spirits guides. Some, like your colleague, claim to also be Christians, others are more spiritualist or new agey. It's a mixed bag and hard to make generalizations.

Even among the ones that are Christian, not all attribute malevolence from the other side to be specifically demons. Some believe they can be the malevolent deceased who have not passed over.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

So yes, their is belief in possession by, or channeling spirits that are anything but good. That is then, fraud. No one is going to go to a medium and say, "would you ask your little demon buddy to get my deceased grandmother over here for a conversation." The believe it's grandma. They want to believe it. And so the conjurer gives them what they want — but it's a lie.

Since they will certainly claim that Benitez is misguided, how do we distinguish which is correct?

That sounds like a very important part of the evaluation of the applicant's 'pass' or 'fail' status.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

This is not something Randi would bother with, I take it, since he does not believe in the spirit world to begin with.

No, this type of application would be accepted. Actually, it sounds quite typical of JREF Challenge applications.

It might help to familiarize yourself with the way the Challenge works: the claimants are making a claim, and the Challenge helps them try to prove whether it's true or not. If it's true, something very important is being added to our understanding of the world, so there is a $1M incentive for claimants to come forward.

It's also important to understand that Mr. Randi is not the evaluator, nor does he get involved in the Challenge. His views do not impact how the claims are evaluated.

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

It's also interesting that I'm the only one I see here using my real name, not hiding behind avatars and usernames. At least Moochie has a photo of real person, (him or not), not a dog or a cartoon. How about you all come out from behind the curtain?

Mary, we sincerely do not care who you are!

In this environment, we evaluate claims based on information, not about personal details of the person who presents the information.

It reduces personal biases.

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

A spirit should be asked one question: Do you believe that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.
No spirit that is not from God will answer that in the affirmative.
And that test has been around for 2,000 years.

How do you know it works?

[CJW]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

It's also interesting that I'm the only one I see here using my real name, not hiding behind avatars and usernames. At least Moochie has a photo of real person, (him or not), not a dog or a cartoon. How about you all come out from behind the curtain?

My user name is my intials and I signed my first post with my real name.

Quote:

Wishing you all peace.

Right back atcha!

[MaryEllen O'Brien]

Of course you care who I am. I wrote the article you're discussing. Nice way to justify your hiding being pictures of dogs and cartoons though.

[CJW]

Originally Posted by grunion

If Eddie's challenge is to have actual merit (and if Creative Entertainment wants to assure that they are not being defrauded of $50K) it would make sense that they, too, agree on a protocol with their claimants. It's quite possible that the participants in this forum, having a keen interest in the topic, may be interested in assisting with the development of the protocol, but I can't guarantee it.

Maybe this is just me being cynical, but look at athe careers of Browne, Edward, Van Praagh and the rest. They make a lot of money with thier schtick.

If Creative Entertainment wants to find someone who can exploit that same market then $50,000 for a Bona Fide endorsement is a small price to pay. CE could find some ringer, or there is some deal between Eddie, the contestant and Creative Entertianment. The contestant wins the prize and is certified as a "real psychic". Everyone gets a cut. The Winner gets a leg up on a lucrative career. Considering the size of the market, $50,000 is small potatoes.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Of course you care who I am. I wrote the article you're discussing. Nice way to justify your hiding being pictures of dogs and cartoons though.

How is that germaine to the issue?

And welcome to the forums!

[Pure_Argent]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Of course you care who I am. I wrote the article you're discussing. Nice way to justify your hiding being pictures of dogs and cartoons though.

Wow, ego much?

Actually, MaryEllen, we DON'T care who you are. Whether or not you wrote the article or are simply talking about it, we don't care. Identities don't matter here; only arguments do.

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Of course you care who I am. I wrote the article you're discussing. Nice way to justify your hiding being pictures of dogs and cartoons though.

Mary, if you came here to launch personal insults hoping it'll change our mind, it's not the right approach.

I would accept clarification on the article from anybody. It doesn't have to be you. Many people know more than me, and I'm open to any of them correcting me.

Due to the nature of how online forums work, we assume that even if a person puts a name on the identity, it may not be their real name.

You're a new user, welcome to the forum, but telling the community that what we set up and chose to do is wrong because you don't like it is a terrible start, and sounds like you're trying to distract the discussion from the claims in question.

[George152]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

As to subjecting myself to scientific study. I don't have "powers." I have sight.

Clairvoyance is an art, not a science. It is also NOT mediumship. I don't have anything to prove, and I don't claim to speak to the deceased loved ones of people who come to me.

It is humbug to make such claims.
If you claim such 'powers' then do the JREF Challenge.
If you are successful mankinds knowledge will be greatly enhanced but I expect that you will fail and the status quo will continue

[Vic Vega]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Of course you care who I am. I wrote the article you're discussing.

Based on what you've posted here about yourself, I assure you that I don't. I doubt I have anything in common with you beyond the fact that we speak a common language and that we, unfortunately, live in the same country.

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

Nice way to justify your hiding being pictures of dogs and cartoons though.

You don't like my avatar?

[Olowkow]

Originally Posted by MaryEllen O'Brien

....
Eddie is a man of faith, not religion. He is not a magician. Spirituality is what he teaches, faith in God, and in the Son of God, Jesus. (Who is not God, but God's son.) ....

..

Come again? Hope that works out for him.
Wow, a real psychic! I am so looking forward to that.