first post and word of thanks from former fundie

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by Marduk

can you even imagine living your life without God now ?

Nor have I ever.

That's a ridiculous question.

I would not be alive, if not for God.

[BobTheDonkey]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

Nor have I ever.

That's a ridiculous question.

I would not be alive, if not for God.

[Marduk]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

Nor have I ever.

That's a ridiculous question.

I would not be alive, if not for God.

ha totally brainwashed
proved my point perfectly thanks

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by Marduk

ha totally brainwashed
proved my point perfectly thanks

No.
When I was in Heaven, and with God and the angels, I chose to come to this planet as a person and to retain the knowledge of where I came from, in order to be a witness to God's goodness.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

When I was in Heaven, and with God and the angels, I chose to come to this planet as a person and to retain the knowledge of where I came from, in order to be a witness to God's goodness.

Seriously? *backs away slowly and resigns from the thread*

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Seriously? *backs away slowly and resigns from the thread*

I am sure there has to be lots of people like that. I can't be the only person like that. Like I said, my sister is the same as I am (as far as having a memory of God). People think she is an angel and everyone loves her. People believe that she is without sin.
I say, I can't imagine her ever sinning. Well, I know I have, so I have to be a little suspicious.
Here's a pic of my sinless angelic sister:

[Brainache]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

No.
When I was in Heaven, and with God and the angels, I chose to come to this planet as a person and to retain the knowledge of where I came from, in order to be a witness to God's goodness.

So, did you have a list of options and you chose late twentieth century Earth as a birthplace?
Could you have chosen life on a planet orbiting a different star with reptoid slugs for parents?
Could you have chosen Earth, but at a different time, say a century from now?

I see this "being a witness to God's goodness" involves making whacky internet posts, anything else?

[ORUgrad]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

Wikipedia, in the article on Christology says:
It would seem a little odd for Wikipedia to be making these declarations about the beliefs in Jesus, if it was only some tiny fringe group who believed he was really sinless.
Job 1:22 "In all this Job did not sin, nor did he charge God with moral impropriety"
Here's a verse that uses the word you recommended I look up, chata'.
Here's what part of the translator's notes from NetBible, concerning the word here translated as, impropriety: "It is possible that “folly” would capture some of what Job meant here."
Here Job does not sin because he trusts in God's good judgment.
Funny how quick everyone seems to be to take the side of the Serpent. It does not say that God put the tree there. It just says, in the midst of the Garden was this tree. And the knowledge was of death, and Hell, where the tree grew up from, hungry to lure unsuspecting mortals to its abode in the earth.
Eternal torture was an invention of Dark Ages clerics. The Bible does not condone rape and God Destroyed Sodom for it. The people who you claim to be victims of genocide were people who had the opportunity to repent of their idolatry and accept the God of Moses and Joshua.
The Bible says David was a man after God's heart. When he was fleeing Saul, he took refuge in a certain city. When someone notified Saul of his whereabouts, and he came to attack the city, David told the people he did not want them to suffer for protecting him, and chose to make his escape from the city. That shows a spirit of self sacrifice and love for others. David being like God in this respect shows how good God is.
No.
Jesus was operating as an independent person and subjected himself to a higher authority.

WOW. Well, I was going to respond more completely to this until I read your post about being with God and the angels to witness god's goodness and just realized that as of now, you are unreachable. You go on saying things like "the Bible does not condone rape" when I have shown clearly from the Bible (just scroll up) that YHWH absolutely does. All of your points have been refuted many times before. We are arguing in circles now. Who do you think put the tree there? Did Satan have the power to put the tree there? If so, why did God allow it to stay. Your arguments are smoke screens. I've thrown up a lot of them in my delusional past. Jesus was baptized by John in the river Jordan which was a baptism of repentance. I suppose Jesus was just play acting like when he asked god why he had forsaken him. He was just quoting Psalms right? More play acting. Do you consider impatience, insults, cursing, lying, beating people, disobeying and disrespecting one's mother to be sins? Because Jesus did all those things in the Bible. The orthodox Christian teaching is that Jesus was fully god and fully man. You cannot be fully man if you are not born under the same conditions as all men are. Original sin is a ridiculous doctrine. But if you believe in it, then Jesus must have been born under it as well, otherwise his "sacrifice" was meaningless. But please don't let facts get in the way of your beliefs. The Bible clearly shows Jesus "sinning". I do feel for you- as you will never be a whole person while living under such delusions. Perhaps this is the fate of all of us. We just have different delusions. However, there is something to be said about reviewing evidence and changing one'e beliefs to reflect the facts.

I'm sure you will write back and say Jesus never did those things to which I will privide the Bible references to which you will claim "context" or the Bible doesn't mean what it says, etc. etc. Or you will ignore it and throw up another smoke screen. The hardest bonds to break are the chains we place on ourselves.

[Marduk]

Originally Posted by ORUgrad

WOW. Well, I was going to respond more completely to this until I read your post about being with God and the angels to witness god's goodness and just realized that as of now, you are unreachable. You go on saying things like "the Bible does not condone rape" when I have shown clearly from the Bible (just scroll up) that YHWH absolutely does. All of your points have been refuted many times before. We are arguing in circles now. Who do you think put the tree there? Did Satan have the power to put the tree there? If so, why did God allow it to stay. Your arguments are smoke screens. I've thrown up a lot of them in my delusional past. Jesus was baptized by John in the river Jordan which was a baptism of repentance. I suppose Jesus was just play acting like when he asked god why he had forsaken him. He was just quoting Psalms right? More play acting. Do you consider impatience, insults, cursing, lying, beating people, disobeying and disrespecting one's mother to be sins? Because Jesus did all those things in the Bible. The orthodox Christian teaching is that Jesus was fully god and fully man. You cannot be fully man if you are not born under the same conditions as all men are. Original sin is a ridiculous doctrine. But if you believe in it, then Jesus must have been born under it as well, otherwise his "sacrifice" was meaningless. But please don't let facts get in the way of your beliefs. The Bible clearly shows Jesus "sinning". I do feel for you- as you will never be a whole person while living under such delusions. Perhaps this is the fate of all of us. We just have different delusions. However, there is something to be said about reviewing evidence and changing one'e beliefs to reflect the facts.

I'm sure you will write back and say Jesus never did those things to which I will privide the Bible references to which you will claim "context" or the Bible doesn't mean what it says, etc. etc. Or you will ignore it and throw up another smoke screen. The hardest bonds to break are the chains we place on ourselves.

you know you are far more eloquent than I am, I was just going to say he was deluded, ridicule him a little and leave it at that
you totally rock
thanks

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by Brainache

So, did you have a list of options and you chose late twentieth century Earth as a birthplace?
Could you have chosen life on a planet orbiting a different star with reptoid slugs for parents?
Could you have chosen Earth, but at a different time, say a century from now?

It's not like I was given an option that everyone doesn't get.
It is not necessarily a reflection of any special quality in myself.
And I was not given a special task to accomplish by God. It was something I decided I wanted to do. So I don't necessarily have the force of the whole host behind me to inflict harm on all who oppose me.
I had a choice; go, or don't go. Evil Planet, or good planet.
Next choice, since I am going into the realm of spiritual darkness; a memory of the light, or no memory or temporary memory.
That's about it, then it is up to God to direct you specifically.
I don't see how anyone would think this whole thing is odd. If I said this at church, no one would really take any special notice of it.

Quote:

I see this "being a witness to God's goodness" involves making whacky internet posts, anything else?

Edit religious books and print them up, is mainly what I do. Research religious topics and compile them into pamphlets.

[ORUgrad]

Originally Posted by Marduk

you know you are far more eloquent than I am, I was just going to say he was deluded, ridicule him a little and leave it at that
you totally rock
thanks

Well, I'm not sure I can reach Eth because you can't argue with reason against someones subjective (delusional) experience. Perhaps he will tell us why he thinks the god he was with before he was born was the god of the Old Testament. I'm working on a post I will present in a few days or so called "The God of Sunday Morning" where I document 20 horrific attrocities either condoned, accepted, commanded, or rewarded by the OT god. It is based on what finally got through to me. It should be deeply disturbing- to Christians. But Christians are worshiping a god of darkness and are calling it light. They are calling evil- good.

My new mission in life- reaching lost Christians.

Thanks for the encouragement.

[Marduk]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

It's not like I was given an option that everyone doesn't get.
It is not necessarily a reflection of any special quality in myself.
SNIP.

I think everyone has something to bring to a conversation Ethnikos, but for your own credibility I think what you should bring in future is silence. Your last few posts have shown everyone exactly what it is about fundies that makes their skin crawl.
you should know that by your own standard you are causing people to go over to Satan,
your god will really thank you appropriately for that I'm sure
and thats the last thing I'm ever going to say to you
ciao

Originally Posted by ORUgrad

Well, I'm not sure I can reach Eth because you can't argue with reason against someones subjective (delusional) experience. Perhaps he will tell us why he thinks the god he was with before he was born was the god of the Old Testament. I'm working on a post I will present in a few days or so called "The God of Sunday Morning" where I document 20 horrific attrocities either condoned, accepted, commanded, or rewarded by the OT god. It is based on what finally got through to me. It should be deeply disturbing- to Christians. But Christians are worshiping a god of darkness and are calling it light. They are calling evil- good.

My new mission in life- reaching lost Christians.

Thanks for the encouragement.

make sure you count the 150 million deaths caused when the bible made it to the new world
thats one of the biggies



but I think youre wasting your time setting yourself a mission to help fundies, they don't care about you, now that youre over yourself and your God you should be living your life and sinning all over the place
you deserve it

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by ORUgrad

WOW. Well, I was going to respond more completely to this until I read your post about being with God and the angels to witness god's goodness and just realized that as of now, you are unreachable.

the reason I brought up the heaven thing was to say that my belief in God goes beyond religion, and originated with me, before I knew religion. So no religious arguments can ever have the affect of making me not believe in God. If you want to say you do not believe in the God of your perception, as seen through the Bible, then that's up to you and is not my concern.

Quote:

You go on saying things like "the Bible does not condone rape" when I have shown clearly from the Bible (just scroll up) that YHWH absolutely does. All of your points have been refuted many times before.

Maybe you can discuss this further because I am not convinced by what I have seen so far.

Quote:

We are arguing in circles now. Who do you think put the tree there? Did Satan have the power to put the tree there? If so, why did God allow it to stay. Your arguments are smoke screens. I've thrown up a lot of them in my delusional past.

Satan from how I see it is one of the Elohim, so he has the power, easily, to have that tree come from Hell. Why else would I have said that, if I didn't believe he could?

Quote:

Jesus was baptized by John in the river Jordan which was a baptism of repentance. I suppose Jesus was just play acting like when he asked god why he had forsaken him. He was just quoting Psalms right? More play acting.

Yes, and why not?

Quote:

Do you consider impatience, insults, cursing, lying, beating people, disobeying and disrespecting one's mother to be sins? Because Jesus did all those things in the Bible.

No, not in his case.

Quote:

The orthodox Christian teaching is that Jesus was fully god and fully man. You cannot be fully man if you are not born under the same conditions as all men are. Original sin is a ridiculous doctrine.

If original sin is ridiculous, why do you use it to base your argument that Jesus had to be sinful?

Quote:

But if you believe in it, then Jesus must have been born under it as well, otherwise his "sacrifice" was meaningless. But please don't let facts get in the way of your beliefs. The Bible clearly shows Jesus "sinning". I do feel for you- as you will never be a whole person while living under such delusions. Perhaps this is the fate of all of us. We just have different delusions. However, there is something to be said about reviewing evidence and changing one'e beliefs to reflect the facts.

This is no fate, as if I drove myself into this condition. I read the more scientifically based (I mean the sciences of linguistics and sociology and such, not evolution b.s.) books about God and the Bible, so I am not at all closed minded to actual knowledge. I do have a healthy scepticism to any sort of preaching or religion in general, even when I am listening to someone who believes exactly as I do (which just happened this week, at church).

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by Marduk

I think everyone has something to bring to a conversation Ethnikos, but for your own credibility I think what you should bring in future is silence. Your last few posts have shown everyone exactly what it is about fundies that makes their skin crawl.
you should know that by your own standard you are causing people to go over to Satan,
your god will really thank you appropriately for that I'm sure
and thats the last thing I'm ever going to say to you

Thanks to you and others, who a long time ago said I already lost all credibility, there doesn't seem to be much reason to hold back now.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

Thanks to you and others, who a long time ago said I already lost all credibility, there doesn't seem to be much reason to hold back now.

You have to admit your claim is difficult to take. It's as if I were to claim that I wasn't born so much as beamed to the surface of the Earth from a Grey mothership. Only, well, more fantastic.

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by Cynic

You have to admit your claim is difficult to take. It's as if I were to claim that I wasn't born so much as beamed to the surface of the Earth from a Grey mothership. Only, well, more fantastic.

Well, I need to get on FaceBook and talk to my sisters and find out what we were talking to each other about when I was two, or whatever.
Maybe I just don't realize how weird it sounds, at least to people who are not believers.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

Well, I need to get on FaceBook and talk to my sisters and find out what we were talking to each other about when I was two, or whatever.
Maybe I just don't realize how weird it sounds, at least to people who are not believers.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of believers would call shenanigans here as well, if only because it's human nature to deny that anyone might be more special than they are. I think before you talk to your sisters, you should take some time to study our present understanding of memory, particularly confabulation and the downsides of accessing memories. My memory is pretty good and goes back further than most. But on reflection, many of my earliest "memories" are almost entirely false, driven by repeated exposure to pictures and videos from those times. It's virtually impossible to recall a memory without scuffing it up somehow before you put it back on the shelf.

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by Cynic

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of believers would call shenanigans here as well, if only because it's human nature to deny that anyone might be more special than they are. I think before you talk to your sisters, you should take some time to study our present understanding of memory, particularly confabulation and the downsides of accessing memories. My memory is pretty good and goes back further than most. But on reflection, many of my earliest "memories" are almost entirely false, driven by repeated exposure to pictures and videos from those times. It's virtually impossible to recall a memory without scuffing it up somehow before you put it back on the shelf.

Thanks but I already sent messages to them just now. I am sure they are not going to think I am weird and I expect them to have similar memories.
If I think I am special, it would specially chicken, maybe, where I would be afraid of getting lost, otherwise.
I appreciate your concern, and thanks for the advice. I think I can understand all that, but I can't imagine any external thing that could have implanted false memories like that.
Strange things can happen. It was probably mostly missed (on another thread) because it was never commented on, but my room mate's brother was shot point blank straight into the chest, with the bullet still lodged in his spine. He was pretty much dead through this ordeal involving three back to back surgeries to repair vital organs. He saw Jesus and had Jesus speaking to him and I guess part of him was in heaven and he was drawn from the darkness and into the light. He felt love and Jesus told him, "you have a purpose in life, and I do not want you to die." He was ready to let go, prior to Jesus speaking to him, where he was descending into the abyss.
One purpose, I would imagine, for him surviving, was to tell about this experience. The only problem is, I never would have known about it unless his brother said something about it. Then I had to drag the story out of him. So I am writing about it right now because Jesus brought me back from the dead too. I can not imagine what in the world an atheist could ever say to people like us, to ever make us want to quit believing in a god we have met and know.

[BobTheDonkey]

Eth, has it ever occurred to you that perhaps the reason you and your sister have these exact same memories of god/heaven is because you were both brainwashed at the same time, by the same people, in the exact same manner?

This is far more likely to be the case than you two are significantly special enough to have formed memories of anything from before you could actually form memories (refer to my post concerning language being required for memory)

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by BobTheDonkey

Eth, has it ever occurred to you that perhaps the reason you and your sister have these exact same memories of god/heaven is because you were both brainwashed at the same time, by the same people, in the exact same manner?

This is far more likely to be the case than you two are significantly special enough to have formed memories of anything from before you could actually form memories (refer to my post concerning language being required for memory)

I guess you never listen to Coast to Coast. If you listened to it every night, or subscribe to the pod casts, none of this would seen odd to you. But I guess it would be brain washing.
According to CtoC think, there is a mind outside of the physical body, like a tiny ant that can have as brilliant of thoughts as any larger animal because the size of its mind is not restricted by its physical size.
So a person could have a mind, even when it is still just a tiny zygote, or whatever.

[BobTheDonkey]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

I guess you never listen to Coast to Coast. If you listened to it every night, or subscribe to the pod casts, none of this would seen odd to you. But I guess it would be brain washing.
According to CtoC think, there is a mind outside of the physical body, like a tiny ant that can have as brilliant of thoughts as any larger animal because the size of its mind is not restricted by its physical size.
So a person could have a mind, even when it is still just a tiny zygote, or whatever.

Ok...but without knowing the proper English words (as that is your primary language), you cannot have memories.

And we've discussed the validity of CtoC on many occasions. Stop listening to CtoC for 2 months, do some critical, objective thinking, listen to NPR and see if you still feel the same way.

[cyborg]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

According to CtoC think, there is a mind outside of the physical body, like a tiny ant that can have as brilliant of thoughts as any larger animal because the size of its mind is not restricted by its physical size.
So a person could have a mind, even when it is still just a tiny zygote, or whatever.

Anything can be true if you restrict yourself to only those things that can be made up.

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by cyborg

Anything can be true if you restrict yourself to only those things that can be made up.

Wow, do I feel stupid, now!
Here's what I got back from my oldest sister, this morning.

Quote:

Yes, when I was about 12, you would have been about 7, I made up this story. I was thinking about angels and how they would know about we feel about being "lost" and about being "saved" - I've since learned more and realize that it was part of God's "real life", as apposed to my making up a story, plan that we fallen humans be granted a personal guardian angel and if we choose to make Jesus the King of our life we receive a second guardian angel, because Jesus had two angels with him, and we don't get anything less then He did ... anyway, I made it up from my musings ... that before we were born we were with God in heaven and then born to experience life as a human ...

So much for her corroborating my story. She is not going to back me up, apparently. I have two older sisters. The one who wrote this is not the one I was talking about earlier, and put the pic of up. You can see that this one seems to be 5 years older than me. I have yet to hear back from my closer sister.

[Dysphemist]

So, when did you realise you were from heaven?

Has God spoken to you directly about this?

[BobTheDonkey]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

Wow, do I feel stupid, now!
Here's what I got back from my oldest sister, this morning.
So much for her corroborating my story. She is not going to back me up, apparently. I have two older sisters. The one who wrote this is not the one I was talking about earlier, and put the pic of up. You can see that this one seems to be 5 years older than me. I have yet to hear back from my closer sister.

So, you mean to say you were lied to regarding religion by someone you trusted?

Wouldn't this admission of your older sister call into question just about everything you thought was true regarding your religion and how special you feel you are?

Can you see how what your sister did has conditioned you to believe you have memories from before you could even actually form them for yourself and that this belief has led you into other beliefs that are now far less credible beliefs (i.e. brainwashing, perhaps not sinisterly, but brainwashing nonetheless...)

[shawmutt]

Sometimes folks are so far out there it's just not right to poke fun at them.

Ethnikos, I hope you find help bro.

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by BobTheDonkey

So, you mean to say you were lied to regarding religion by someone you trusted?

I think I must have shocked her by asking her about that. She surprisingly got right back to me with a rather long letter. I don't need to post the whole thing, and I got up the pertinent part to what I was asking. She deeply regrets doing this to me. I know there was more to it than what she talked about in the letter because I know I already had this belief system in place before that one time.
Apparently, from what I got out of it is that she had the type of revelation that ORUgrad had, but at a very young age. Her solution was to invent an alternative theology that sounded better than the standard Old Testament model. And transferred it to her siblings who were all younger than her, she being the oldest.

Quote:

Wouldn't this admission of your older sister call into question just about everything you thought was true regarding your religion and how special you feel you are?

We never thought we were special because according to this story, everyone started out this way.
I don't know that it ever caused any specific conflicts with the regular Christian indoctrination that was going on with me.

Quote:

Can you see how what your sister did has conditioned you to believe you have memories from before you could even actually form them for yourself and that this belief has led you into other beliefs that are now far less credible beliefs (i.e. brainwashing, perhaps not sinisterly, but brainwashing nonetheless...)

The first part, yes. I am not sure what you mean in the last part. That Christianity would seem less credible, now that I realize a lot of what I believe was manufactured by my sister? Or that Christianity is even less credible than my sisters theology? Maybe the answer is the same, either way. My credibility of about everything has slipped a notch for me, right now.

[BobTheDonkey]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

I think I must have shocked her by asking her about that. She surprisingly got right back to me with a rather long letter. I don't need to post the whole thing, and I got up the pertinent part to what I was asking. She deeply regrets doing this to me. I know there was more to it than what she talked about in the letter because I know I already had this belief system in place before that one time.
Apparently, from what I got out of it is that she had the type of revelation that ORUgrad had, but at a very young age. Her solution was to invent an alternative theology that sounded better than the standard Old Testament model. And transferred it to her siblings who were all younger than her, she being the oldest.
We never thought we were special because according to this story, everyone started out this way.
I don't know that it ever caused any specific conflicts with the regular Christian indoctrination that was going on with me.
The first part, yes. I am not sure what you mean in the last part. That Christianity would seem less credible, now that I realize a lot of what I believe was manufactured by my sister? Or that Christianity is even less credible than my sisters theology? Maybe the answer is the same, either way. My credibility of about everything has slipped a notch for me, right now.

That's a step in the right direction.

What if she wasn't the only one that had lied to you about Jesus/God? What if the stories you've been taught all your life weren't true, or at the very least, there was absolutely no credible evidence of the bible's veracity?

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by shawmutt

Sometimes folks are so far out there it's just not right to poke fun at them.

Ethnikos, I hope you find help bro.

Oh, I don't think I need therapy. I just had a sister five years older than me who thought the way to demonstrate her love for me was to teach me all about God, basically from birth.
The fact that she was making it up is only slightly disturbing because it was probably nicer than what the church had in store for me, like lots of hell fire.
She either did me a favor, or a disservice, according to what side you are looking at it from.

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by BobTheDonkey

That's a step in the right direction.

What if she wasn't the only one that had lied to you about Jesus/God? What if the stories you've been taught all your life weren't true, or at the very least, there was absolutely no credible evidence of the bible's veracity?

Of course that is something you have to wonder about. What makes these other people more expert on God, than my sister?

[tsig]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

For us, maybe the important thing is to understand the principle of indwelling divinity. Jesus is the ultimate example of that. We need to be like him, and have that in us, in order to be good. So there would be an emphasis on that aspect of Jesus' life.
"

How many people have you healed? If you want to be like Jesus you have to do what he did. Have you passed 33 without being crucified?

[Dysphemist]

Originally Posted by geneeee

So, when did you realise you were from heaven?

Has God spoken to you directly about this?

Could I get an answer for this? I didn't mean to sound insulting, I really do want to know your answers to these questions Ethnikos

[tsig]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

Heresy, according to who?
Sinning is not making mistakes. It is knowingly placing your own judgment before God's judgment. That's what Adam did in the Garden. God judged that it would be bad for Adam to eat from the tree. Adam decided he could use his own judgment, overriding God's.
Jesus decided to always follow God's decisions, all the way to the cross.

Well Adam was just human Jesus was god, hardly a fair comparison.

[tsig]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

Nor have I ever.

That's a ridiculous question.

I would not be alive, if not for God.

Shame your poor mother labored in vain.

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by geneeee

Could I get an answer for this? I didn't mean to sound insulting, I really do want to know your answers to these questions Ethnikos

I have had angels speak to me but never God, at least in this life. Voices were coming from outside of my head and coming through my ears, and from a specific direction. One time was an angel telling me when the judgment of the world would begin. (in this case, I was lying in bed and when I opened my eyes, it was over, so I never saw the angel) The other time was an angel telling me (in this case I saw the angel speaking to me and it was while I was walking through my house) that I needed to leave my house immediately and go to a certain place because someone was going to run into me there and I need to speak to that particular person. Both instances were confirmed to me to be true. In the one case, sure enough that person came to where I was. In the second case one of the things that were predicted to happen did come true. One of the Angels who blasts a trumpet to sound the judgement was to do this on a day specified and that a sign would be given, on that day to prove to me that it was surely true. Anyway, it did come about, as foretold. So this was actually 20 years ago, so I am not making a prediction. I was not told how long the judgment would last. I have been trying to find out but it is apparently a closely guarded secret. Anyone who is a Mormon and has access to super secret stuff might know, but I have been blacklisted from any Mormons talking to me.
According to my earlier story, I knew I was from heaven when I was born. Now I am wondering that it may have been my sister telling me I was from heaven, since I was born.

[cyborg]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

Of course that is something you have to wonder about. What makes these other people more expert on God, than my sister?

What makes ANYONE expert on the subject other than what they proclaim?

Sure, you can be an expert on the mythos and the theos but to be an expert on an actual existent god requires something a little more does it not?

[Fiona]

Originally Posted by cyborg

Sure, you can be an expert on the mythos and the theos but to be an expert on an actual existent god requires something a little more less does it not?

Fixed that for you

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by cyborg

What makes ANYONE expert on the subject other than what they proclaim?

Sure, you can be an expert on the mythos and the theos but to be an expert on an actual existent god requires something a little more does it not?

You're being enigmatic, here. I wonder what this something is. Earlier, you were talking about a restriction. Do you have some sort of method for achieving a more precise knowledge? I'm kinda into not having a method, as far as knowing God. Just doesn't seem safe. I guess I do restrict myself to knowing what other people claim about God. To me, if you do not know God without trying, you just aren't supposed to know. Whatever I do know, experientialy, about God, are from things that just happened without any sort of wishing on my part. I would not want to actually do something to bring about some sort of state of knowing. Like when I was 16 I took LSD. I had some affects that I'm not sure I really wanted. That's not the way to know God. You might think you do, but it is just something going on inside your head.
To answer the question, knowing the right mythos, or maybe even just correctly knowing about the mythos, is as ambitious as I am right now. For example, I just ordered three new books from Amazon: "Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic: Essays in the History of the Religion of Israel", "You Shall Have No Other Gods: Israelite Religion in the Light of Hebrew Inscriptions", and "The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts"

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Ethnikos

You're being enigmatic, here. I wonder what this something is.

And you'll have to wonder too, which precludes expert status.

[Ethnikos]

Originally Posted by Cynic

And you'll have to wonder too, which precludes expert status.

I've already proven I am not an expert.
I do not know if my God from my personal experience has anything to do with the God of the Bible. I might make a guess, but I do not have proof.
God has intervened in my life in different ways and for various reasons. That's why I am still around, for one thing. So there is my God, somewhere, up there making sure nothing too terrible happens to me, and every once in a while, I am able to be of help to others. That is kind of fuzzy and gives nothing to tie into any particular belief structure.
On the other hand, I can examine something like Christianity and learn a lot of the nuances of it. Does that get me any closer to finding the identity of my benefactor who uses intercessory messengers to interact with the physical world? Maybe. But what I am saying is, that I am not so curious as to want to take some sort of spiritual short-cut to find out. I have to think that if God wanted, or required us to know about Him, it (the necessary information) would already be out there, in a physical form, where we can look at it and touch it and analyze it.