Chicago Coalition of Reason puts up "Good without God" billboard

MattusMaximus · 20th October 2009, 05:00 PM

Whew! I had a hard time keeping a lid on this one

Godless Billboard Appears in the Chicago Loop

Quote:

(Chicago, October 20, 2009) "Are you good without God? Millions are."

These words are part of a coordinated multi-organizational advertising campaign designed to raise awareness about people who don't believe in a god. It fits into a nationwide effort that has now come to the Chicago area. The prominent ad appears on a downtown billboard at LaSalle Boulevard and Grand Avenue and can be read by those traveling north who will see it on their left. Placed by the Chicago Coalition of Reason, with funding from the United Coalition of Reason, the billboard features an image of blue sky and clouds with the words superimposed over.

"The point of our national billboard campaign is to reach out to the millions of humanists, atheists and agnostics living in the United States," explained Fred Edwords, head of the United Coalition of Reason. "Nontheists sometimes don't realize there's a community out there for them because they're inundated with religious messages at every turn. So we hope this will serve as a beacon and let them know they aren't alone."

Reaching out to nontheists isn't the only goal of the campaign. "We want people to know they can be good without belief in a god," said Hemant Mehta, coordinator of the Chicago Coalition of Reason. "There is a lot of misinformation out there about us. But we humanists, agnostics and atheists are as normal as anyone else. We're your friends, neighbors and family members. We care about our communities and are true to our values."

The Chicago billboard officially launches Chicago CoR. It is also timed to coordinate with the launch of a new book called "Good Without God" by Greg Epstein, which is being released by William Morrow. Epstein, the humanist chaplain at Harvard University, is giving talks and holding a book signing the afternoon of October 26 at the Interfaith Youth Core Biannual Conference, Center for Civic Engagement, at Northwestern University in Evanston. The next day he will speak at the University of Chicago Hillel lunch at 12:00 Noon. At 5:30 PM that evening he will speak at the Harvard Club of Chicago. From 8:00 to 10:00 PM he will lead a discussion at the University of Chicago Chaplains Office, Divinity School.

The billboard is one of many that have appeared around the country this year. Billboards and transit system ads funded by the United Coalition of Reason have gone up in places as far flung as Charleston, South Carolina; Dallas and Fort Worth, Texas; Des Moines, Iowa; Morgantown, West Virginia; Phoenix, Arizona, and New Orleans, Louisiana. Subway ads will appear next week in New York City and a billboard will go up in New Brunswick, New Jersey. In a month, more are slated for California and elsewhere.

godless dave · 20th October 2009, 05:09 PM

A billboard! How militant!

Jontg · 20th October 2009, 05:25 PM

Yes, and pointing out that we're not the crazy weirdos here is just so extreme and far-out.

godless dave · 20th October 2009, 05:32 PM

It's downright vitriolic!

marksman · 21st October 2009, 06:48 AM

I'm sure God will smite the heathen billboard any day now... any day... waiting... waiting... waiting... zzzzz....

Hux · 21st October 2009, 08:17 AM

These things do serve a purpose. Well two actually:

1. As Dawkins and Hitchens found out on their book promotions there are more atheists and agnostics in America than they would care to admit. These posters show such people they are not isolated or alone.

2. These efforts really piss off the religious and that's got to be candy.

JoeTheJuggler · 21st October 2009, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Hux

These things do serve a purpose. Well two actually:

1. As Dawkins and Hitchens found out on their book promotions there are more atheists and agnostics in America than they would care to admit. These posters show such people they are not isolated or alone.

2. These efforts really piss off the religious and that's got to be candy.

I think more importantly they let other atheists know they're not alone and how to get in touch with various atheist or atheist-leaning groups.

Plus the coalitions are useful (even beyond the kick off billboard campaign). We recently hosted a lecture by Victor Stenger and our flyer said "hosted by" and listed 5 organizations with URLs. It would be convenient on these things to just say hosted by our local CoR with one link to a site that has descriptions and links to member organizations. (There are other good reasons for a coalition too. For instance, allowing members to find the "right fit" organization rather than either jumping into the first such organization they learn of or going it alone if they don't feel quite comfortable.)

The Central Scrutinizer · 21st October 2009, 10:09 AM

You people won't be so smug when god passes judgment on you.

Dragonrock · 21st October 2009, 10:22 AM

I wanna know where the billboards are in Dallas. I'm sure we have lots of nice lovely protests going on right now.

JoeTheJuggler · 21st October 2009, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Dragonrock

I wanna know where the billboards are in Dallas. I'm sure we have lots of nice lovely protests going on right now.

http://www.dfwcor.org/

ETA: They started in March, so I doubt the billboards are still up. (Northbound I-35E at Northwest Highway in Dallas and northbound I-35W just north of downtown in Fort Worth.)

Pure_Argent · 21st October 2009, 10:33 AM

No, no, no, people, we're doing this backwards. Instead of putting up billboards that promote atheism, we should be demanding that billboards promoting theism be taken down.

JoeTheJuggler · 21st October 2009, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent

No, no, no, people, we're doing this backwards. Instead of putting up billboards that promote atheism, we should be demanding that billboards promoting theism be taken down.

I hope you're kidding. You know, First Amendment and all that.

jasonpatterson · 21st October 2009, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent

No, no, no, people, we're doing this backwards. Instead of putting up billboards that promote atheism, we should be demanding that billboards promoting theism be taken down.

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

I hope you're kidding. You know, First Amendment and all that.

I took his post as a comment on the fundie way of doing things.

Beerina · 21st October 2009, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

You people won't be so smug when god passes judgment on you.

Exactly! We should praise God and be joyous we live in a reality where this loving father will torture us for ever and ever if we crank one off while thinking about Girl Dujour from Hollywood.

MattusMaximus · 21st October 2009, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

I think more importantly they let other atheists know they're not alone and how to get in touch with various atheist or atheist-leaning groups.

Plus the coalitions are useful (even beyond the kick off billboard campaign). We recently hosted a lecture by Victor Stenger and our flyer said "hosted by" and listed 5 organizations with URLs. It would be convenient on these things to just say hosted by our local CoR with one link to a site that has descriptions and links to member organizations. (There are other good reasons for a coalition too. For instance, allowing members to find the "right fit" organization rather than either jumping into the first such organization they learn of or going it alone if they don't feel quite comfortable.)

I want to second these particular comments - coalition building is key. Not only that, but it might surprise some of you that there are religious people who will support this kind of move. For instance, one of the groups in our Chicago Coalition of Reason is the Illinois chapter of Americans United for the Separation of Church & State, which includes religious members. We are hoping this ad campaign will help drive people to our AU group (I'm the president).

It's also nice to know that not all religious folk are bat-crap crazy

MattusMaximus · 21st October 2009, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent

No, no, no, people, we're doing this backwards. Instead of putting up billboards that promote atheism, we should be demanding that billboards promoting theism be taken down.

I sense... sarcasm. You know, PA, you should really follow up posts like this with a

lest someone think you are serious.

And if you are serious

Pure_Argent · 21st October 2009, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

I hope you're kidding. You know, First Amendment and all that.

Originally Posted by jasonpatterson

I took his post as a comment on the fundie way of doing things.

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

I sense... sarcasm. You know, PA, you should really follow up posts like this with a

lest someone think you are serious.

And if you are serious

The highlighted is correct. But you're right. I should have put a roll-eyes after that. Poe's Law applies to things other than creationism, after all...

JoeTheJuggler · 21st October 2009, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent

The highlighted is correct. But you're right. I should have put a roll-eyes after that. Poe's Law applies to things other than creationism, after all...

It would've been easier for me to tell if you'd said, "No, no, no, people, we're doing this backwards. Instead of putting up billboards that promote atheism, we should be demanding the right to eat babies and kittens for breakfast."

No. . even then I wouldn't be sure it wasn't something someone said in earnest!

leon_heller · 21st October 2009, 03:42 PM

Something similar was put on London buses a few months ago:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7681914.stm

Leon

Checkmite · 21st October 2009, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Hux

2. These efforts really piss off the religious and that's got to be candy.

MattusMaximus · 21st October 2009, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by Hux

2. These efforts really piss off the religious and that's got to be candy.

Kind of missing the point, actually. If some religious jerk gets pissed about it, that's their problem, not mine. Such is not the motivation behind this campaign.

jimtron · 21st October 2009, 09:46 PM

Hey Mattus:

I'm a Chicagoan, and would like to learn more about CCOR--I'll check out the site. What's your role in the organization?

eta: This page was very helpful; I wasn't aware of most of these organizations.
http://chicago.unitedcor.org/node/7

Dragoonster · 21st October 2009, 09:53 PM

I've got no problem with it, but don't see why they capitalized God, and/or why it wasn't "gods". Capitalizing it in the singular specifically addresses the Christian God, when they should (imo) be targeting any god. It also "respects" the Christian God by affording him a proper name, as if he actually exists.

marksman · 22nd October 2009, 05:37 AM

We capitalize Darth Vader. I don't think anybody believes he actually exists. Capitalization doesn't imply existence.

Careyp74 · 22nd October 2009, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by leon_heller

Something similar was put on London buses a few months ago:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7681914.stm

Leon

didn't we lose that battle? I think they were taken down shortly after. Way to stick up for the cause over there, man.

Hux · 22nd October 2009, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by Dragoonster

I've got no problem with it, but don't see why they capitalized God, and/or why it wasn't "gods". Capitalizing it in the singular specifically addresses the Christian God, when they should (imo) be targeting any god. It also "respects" the Christian God by affording him a proper name, as if he actually exists.

Just grammatical tradition. Nothing more than that is implied.

Foster Zygote · 22nd October 2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Hux

These efforts really piss off the religious and that's got to be candy.

I'm more interested in getting the religious (that is, the ones who think that non-theists are inherently immoral) to realize that atheists, agnostics, secular humanists etc. can be just as good and compassionate as theists. There will always be people who are pissed off by something, but some of them may change their attitude if they are given a good reason to challenge their assumptions.

MattusMaximus · 23rd October 2009, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by jimtron

Hey Mattus:

I'm a Chicagoan, and would like to learn more about CCOR--I'll check out the site. What's your role in the organization?

eta: This page was very helpful; I wasn't aware of most of these organizations.
http://chicago.unitedcor.org/node/7

Actually, everyone here should be aware that, due to an unfortunate snafu in inter-group communications, the chapters of Americans United are no longer part of the Chicago Coalition of Reason. Part of the reason I was involved in the CoR was because I'm the president of one of these local chapters.

However, I am also the leader of the North Shore Freethinkers Meetup, which is also part of Chicago CoR. So I'm still involved in that capacity.

Let me know if you have specific questions. PM works best if you wish to keep it private.

MattusMaximus · 23rd October 2009, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by marksman

We capitalize Darth Vader. I don't think anybody believes he actually exists. Capitalization doesn't imply existence.

Yeah, it's not like Detroit is real.

MattusMaximus · 23rd October 2009, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Careyp74

didn't we lose that battle? I think they were taken down shortly after. Way to stick up for the cause over there, man.

Where did you hear that? I got exactly the opposite impression.

MattusMaximus · 23rd October 2009, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

I'm more interested in getting the religious (that is, the ones who think that non-theists are inherently immoral) to realize that atheists, agnostics, secular humanists etc. can be just as good and compassionate as theists. There will always be people who are pissed off by something, but some of them may change their attitude if they are given a good reason to challenge their assumptions.

Bingo, FZ.

Hux · 24th October 2009, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

I'm more interested in getting the religious (that is, the ones who think that non-theists are inherently immoral) to realize that atheists, agnostics, secular humanists etc. can be just as good and compassionate as theists. There will always be people who are pissed off by something, but some of them may change their attitude if they are given a good reason to challenge their assumptions.

I suppose there is a virtue in that. For my part, I think its also important to let certain theists know that they cannot get away with being unchallenged. The ones who insist you should be a Christian nation. The ones who think theirs is the default position. If they think secular people atheists etc cannot be good, then its a cognitive problem for them. Some will never change their attitude and I think they are the ones you can fairly piss off. Some people deserve that, many, those who become curious for instance, deserve respect and patience.

hamelekim · 24th October 2009, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Exactly! We should praise God and be joyous we live in a reality where this loving father will torture us for ever and ever if we crank one off while thinking about Girl Dujour from Hollywood.

If that is what you believe then you fail to understand God and you fail to understand sin.

There would be no point in worshiping God if there were no consequences for not doing so. He would be essentially inconsequential. Essentially you are trying to make God adhere to your views on what is right or wrong. But God is sovereign and had a different set of standards, which we are to hold to.

So feel free to hate the God of the Bible, and to ridicule him all you want, but some day you will find out how wrong you truly are, and I hope you isn't too late for you at that time to repent.

hamelekim · 24th October 2009, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

I'm more interested in getting the religious (that is, the ones who think that non-theists are inherently immoral) to realize that atheists, agnostics, secular humanists etc. can be just as good and compassionate as theists. There will always be people who are pissed off by something, but some of them may change their attitude if they are given a good reason to challenge their assumptions.

One cannot be good without God. So you can follow some of God's laws all you want, but that only condemns you before God, because you follow some but not all of his laws. By following them you give validity to God's morality.

It's not about works, it's about grace and faith.

Hux · 24th October 2009, 02:14 AM

You cant even prove an existence of God and here you are talking as if you know Her mind. You are just being very silly.

SezMe · 24th October 2009, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by hamelekim

One cannot be good without God.

A demonstrably false assertion.

Hux · 24th October 2009, 02:47 AM

Yup. However do Buddhists manage?

MattusMaximus · 24th October 2009, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by hamelekim

One cannot be good without God.

Yeah, all that money I donate to charity, all that food I donate to my local food bank, all the blood I've donated to the local Red Cross, and all the labor I've put in on various charitable projects is in no way, shape, or form good.

I suppose I could be good if I simply did nothing more than believe in your god, right HK? Actions don't matter, it's belief that matters!

Quote:

So you can follow some of God's laws all you want, but that only condemns you before God, because you follow some but not all of his laws. By following them you give validity to God's morality.

It's not about works, it's about grace and faith.

Your god sounds like a twat. I'd rather burn, thanks.

JoeTheJuggler · 24th October 2009, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by hamelekim

One cannot be good without God. So you can follow some of God's laws all you want, but that only condemns you before God, because you follow some but not all of his laws. By following them you give validity to God's morality.

It's not about works, it's about grace and faith.

How does this "argument" differ from simply asserting, "I'm right and you're wrong"?

Dragoonster · 24th October 2009, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Hux

Just grammatical tradition. Nothing more than that is implied.

I think it is implied that the god in question is the Abrahamic god. It may not be a big deal and is merely me nitpicking, or that may be the god that is meant to be targeted, but I'd just personally prefer a lower-case g. I guess my feelings are similar to the second paragraph here:

Quote:

Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God" and/or "denial of God." Some dictionaries go further and say that atheism is "wickedness," "sinfulness," "heathenism," "paganism," and "immorality." Some dictionaries even say that atheism is the "doctrine that there is no God." At least The American Heritage ® Dictionary says "God and gods" after the word "doctrine," but that does not detract from the fact that use of the word doctrine is incorrect.

The fact that the dictionary's definition uses the phrase "there is no God" betrays the theistic influence in defining the word atheism. If dictionaries did not contain such influence, then the definition would read, "A belief that there are no gods." The use of god in singular form, with a capital G, is indicative of Christian influence.

http://www.atheists.org/atheism/About_Atheism

I'm happy to see the billboard of course, it just seems a semantically significant choice to capitalize the G (to more anal atheists/agnostics like me).

20th October 2009, 05:00 PM	#1
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 7,123	Chicago Coalition of Reason puts up "Good without God" billboard Whew! I had a hard time keeping a lid on this one Godless Billboard Appears in the Chicago Loop Quote: (Chicago, October 20, 2009) "Are you good without God? Millions are." These words are part of a coordinated multi-organizational advertising campaign designed to raise awareness about people who don't believe in a god. It fits into a nationwide effort that has now come to the Chicago area. The prominent ad appears on a downtown billboard at LaSalle Boulevard and Grand Avenue and can be read by those traveling north who will see it on their left. Placed by the Chicago Coalition of Reason, with funding from the United Coalition of Reason, the billboard features an image of blue sky and clouds with the words superimposed over. "The point of our national billboard campaign is to reach out to the millions of humanists, atheists and agnostics living in the United States," explained Fred Edwords, head of the United Coalition of Reason. "Nontheists sometimes don't realize there's a community out there for them because they're inundated with religious messages at every turn. So we hope this will serve as a beacon and let them know they aren't alone." Reaching out to nontheists isn't the only goal of the campaign. "We want people to know they can be good without belief in a god," said Hemant Mehta, coordinator of the Chicago Coalition of Reason. "There is a lot of misinformation out there about us. But we humanists, agnostics and atheists are as normal as anyone else. We're your friends, neighbors and family members. We care about our communities and are true to our values." The Chicago billboard officially launches Chicago CoR. It is also timed to coordinate with the launch of a new book called "Good Without God" by Greg Epstein, which is being released by William Morrow. Epstein, the humanist chaplain at Harvard University, is giving talks and holding a book signing the afternoon of October 26 at the Interfaith Youth Core Biannual Conference, Center for Civic Engagement, at Northwestern University in Evanston. The next day he will speak at the University of Chicago Hillel lunch at 12:00 Noon. At 5:30 PM that evening he will speak at the Harvard Club of Chicago. From 8:00 to 10:00 PM he will lead a discussion at the University of Chicago Chaplains Office, Divinity School. The billboard is one of many that have appeared around the country this year. Billboards and transit system ads funded by the United Coalition of Reason have gone up in places as far flung as Charleston, South Carolina; Dallas and Fort Worth, Texas; Des Moines, Iowa; Morgantown, West Virginia; Phoenix, Arizona, and New Orleans, Louisiana. Subway ads will appear next week in New York City and a billboard will go up in New Brunswick, New Jersey. In a month, more are slated for California and elsewhere.
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20th October 2009, 05:09 PM	#2
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 3,728	A billboard! How militant!
	__________________ Genesis 9:3

20th October 2009, 05:25 PM	#3
Jontg The Bear Skeptic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: A world without gods. Posts: 734	Yes, and pointing out that we're not the crazy weirdos here is just so extreme and far-out.
	__________________ Okay, so far, Jontg is right, and everyone else is wrong. - Prometheus Free Trade, Free Culture, Free Will - Support the New World Order.

20th October 2009, 05:32 PM	#4
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 3,728	It's downright vitriolic!
	__________________ Genesis 9:3

21st October 2009, 08:17 AM	#6
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	These things do serve a purpose. Well two actually: 1. As Dawkins and Hitchens found out on their book promotions there are more atheists and agnostics in America than they would care to admit. These posters show such people they are not isolated or alone. 2. These efforts really piss off the religious and that's got to be candy.
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064

21st October 2009, 06:48 AM	#5
marksman Reality Checker Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 2,860	I'm sure God will smite the heathen billboard any day now... any day... waiting... waiting... waiting... zzzzz....

21st October 2009, 09:54 AM	#7
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 10,998	Originally Posted by Hux These things do serve a purpose. Well two actually: 1. As Dawkins and Hitchens found out on their book promotions there are more atheists and agnostics in America than they would care to admit. These posters show such people they are not isolated or alone. 2. These efforts really piss off the religious and that's got to be candy. I think more importantly they let other atheists know they're not alone and how to get in touch with various atheist or atheist-leaning groups. Plus the coalitions are useful (even beyond the kick off billboard campaign). We recently hosted a lecture by Victor Stenger and our flyer said "hosted by" and listed 5 organizations with URLs. It would be convenient on these things to just say hosted by our local CoR with one link to a site that has descriptions and links to member organizations. (There are other good reasons for a coalition too. For instance, allowing members to find the "right fit" organization rather than either jumping into the first such organization they learn of or going it alone if they don't feel quite comfortable.)
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons Last edited by JoeTheJuggler; 21st October 2009 at 09:55 AM.

21st October 2009, 10:09 AM	#8
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 21,723	You people won't be so smug when god passes judgment on you.
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21st October 2009, 10:22 AM	#9
Dragonrock Militant Elvisian Tacoist Join Date: May 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 8,098	I wanna know where the billboards are in Dallas. I'm sure we have lots of nice lovely protests going on right now.
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21st October 2009, 10:31 AM	#10
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 10,998	Originally Posted by Dragonrock I wanna know where the billboards are in Dallas. I'm sure we have lots of nice lovely protests going on right now. http://www.dfwcor.org/ ETA: They started in March, so I doubt the billboards are still up. (Northbound I-35E at Northwest Highway in Dallas and northbound I-35W just north of downtown in Fort Worth.)
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons Last edited by JoeTheJuggler; 21st October 2009 at 10:34 AM.

21st October 2009, 10:33 AM	#11
Pure_Argent Certified Castlevania Fanboy Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Clock Tower Boss Room Posts: 3,820	No, no, no, people, we're doing this backwards. Instead of putting up billboards that promote atheism, we should be demanding that billboards promoting theism be taken down.
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21st October 2009, 10:55 AM	#12
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 10,998	Originally Posted by Pure_Argent No, no, no, people, we're doing this backwards. Instead of putting up billboards that promote atheism, we should be demanding that billboards promoting theism be taken down. I hope you're kidding. You know, First Amendment and all that.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

21st October 2009, 12:22 PM	#13
jasonpatterson Philanthropic Misanthrope Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Macedonia, OH Posts: 908	Originally Posted by Pure_Argent No, no, no, people, we're doing this backwards. Instead of putting up billboards that promote atheism, we should be demanding that billboards promoting theism be taken down. Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler I hope you're kidding. You know, First Amendment and all that. I took his post as a comment on the fundie way of doing things.
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21st October 2009, 01:06 PM	#14
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 14,373	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer You people won't be so smug when god passes judgment on you. Exactly! We should praise God and be joyous we live in a reality where this loving father will torture us for ever and ever if we crank one off while thinking about Girl Dujour from Hollywood.
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21st October 2009, 01:31 PM	#15
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler I think more importantly they let other atheists know they're not alone and how to get in touch with various atheist or atheist-leaning groups. Plus the coalitions are useful (even beyond the kick off billboard campaign). We recently hosted a lecture by Victor Stenger and our flyer said "hosted by" and listed 5 organizations with URLs. It would be convenient on these things to just say hosted by our local CoR with one link to a site that has descriptions and links to member organizations. (There are other good reasons for a coalition too. For instance, allowing members to find the "right fit" organization rather than either jumping into the first such organization they learn of or going it alone if they don't feel quite comfortable.) I want to second these particular comments - coalition building is key. Not only that, but it might surprise some of you that there are religious people who will support this kind of move. For instance, one of the groups in our Chicago Coalition of Reason is the Illinois chapter of Americans United for the Separation of Church & State, which includes religious members. We are hoping this ad campaign will help drive people to our AU group (I'm the president). It's also nice to know that not all religious folk are bat-crap crazy
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21st October 2009, 01:32 PM	#16
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by Pure_Argent No, no, no, people, we're doing this backwards. Instead of putting up billboards that promote atheism, we should be demanding that billboards promoting theism be taken down. I sense... sarcasm. You know, PA, you should really follow up posts like this with a lest someone think you are serious. And if you are serious
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21st October 2009, 02:33 PM	#17
Pure_Argent Certified Castlevania Fanboy Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Clock Tower Boss Room Posts: 3,820	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler I hope you're kidding. You know, First Amendment and all that. Originally Posted by jasonpatterson I took his post as a comment on the fundie way of doing things. Originally Posted by MattusMaximus I sense... sarcasm. You know, PA, you should really follow up posts like this with a lest someone think you are serious. And if you are serious The highlighted is correct. But you're right. I should have put a roll-eyes after that. Poe's Law applies to things other than creationism, after all...
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21st October 2009, 03:31 PM	#18
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 10,998	Originally Posted by Pure_Argent The highlighted is correct. But you're right. I should have put a roll-eyes after that. Poe's Law applies to things other than creationism, after all... It would've been easier for me to tell if you'd said, "No, no, no, people, we're doing this backwards. Instead of putting up billboards that promote atheism, we should be demanding the right to eat babies and kittens for breakfast." No. . even then I wouldn't be sure it wasn't something someone said in earnest!
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21st October 2009, 03:42 PM	#19
leon_heller Muse Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: St. Leonards-on-Sea, E. Sussex, UK. Posts: 652	Something similar was put on London buses a few months ago: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7681914.stm Leon
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21st October 2009, 04:57 PM	#20
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 8,649	Originally Posted by Hux 2. These efforts really piss off the religious and that's got to be candy.
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21st October 2009, 09:36 PM	#21
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by Hux 2. These efforts really piss off the religious and that's got to be candy. Kind of missing the point, actually. If some religious jerk gets pissed about it, that's their problem, not mine. Such is not the motivation behind this campaign.
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21st October 2009, 09:46 PM	#22
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,341	Hey Mattus: I'm a Chicagoan, and would like to learn more about CCOR--I'll check out the site. What's your role in the organization? eta: This page was very helpful; I wasn't aware of most of these organizations. http://chicago.unitedcor.org/node/7
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21st October 2009, 09:53 PM	#23
Dragoonster Muse Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 941	I've got no problem with it, but don't see why they capitalized God, and/or why it wasn't "gods". Capitalizing it in the singular specifically addresses the Christian God, when they should (imo) be targeting any god. It also "respects" the Christian God by affording him a proper name, as if he actually exists.
Dragoonster Muse Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 941

22nd October 2009, 05:37 AM	#24
marksman Reality Checker Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 2,860	We capitalize Darth Vader. I don't think anybody believes he actually exists. Capitalization doesn't imply existence.

22nd October 2009, 06:00 AM	#25
Careyp74 Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 1,656	Originally Posted by leon_heller Something similar was put on London buses a few months ago: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7681914.stm Leon didn't we lose that battle? I think they were taken down shortly after. Way to stick up for the cause over there, man.

22nd October 2009, 06:03 AM	#26
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	Originally Posted by Dragoonster I've got no problem with it, but don't see why they capitalized God, and/or why it wasn't "gods". Capitalizing it in the singular specifically addresses the Christian God, when they should (imo) be targeting any god. It also "respects" the Christian God by affording him a proper name, as if he actually exists. Just grammatical tradition. Nothing more than that is implied.
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22nd October 2009, 11:46 AM	#27
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Utility Muffin Research Kitchen Posts: 7,840	Originally Posted by Hux These efforts really piss off the religious and that's got to be candy. I'm more interested in getting the religious (that is, the ones who think that non-theists are inherently immoral) to realize that atheists, agnostics, secular humanists etc. can be just as good and compassionate as theists. There will always be people who are pissed off by something, but some of them may change their attitude if they are given a good reason to challenge their assumptions.
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23rd October 2009, 11:08 PM	#28
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by jimtron Hey Mattus: I'm a Chicagoan, and would like to learn more about CCOR--I'll check out the site. What's your role in the organization? eta: This page was very helpful; I wasn't aware of most of these organizations. http://chicago.unitedcor.org/node/7 Actually, everyone here should be aware that, due to an unfortunate snafu in inter-group communications, the chapters of Americans United are no longer part of the Chicago Coalition of Reason. Part of the reason I was involved in the CoR was because I'm the president of one of these local chapters. However, I am also the leader of the North Shore Freethinkers Meetup, which is also part of Chicago CoR. So I'm still involved in that capacity. Let me know if you have specific questions. PM works best if you wish to keep it private.
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23rd October 2009, 11:09 PM	#29
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by marksman We capitalize Darth Vader. I don't think anybody believes he actually exists. Capitalization doesn't imply existence. Yeah, it's not like Detroit is real.
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23rd October 2009, 11:11 PM	#30
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by Careyp74 didn't we lose that battle? I think they were taken down shortly after. Way to stick up for the cause over there, man. Where did you hear that? I got exactly the opposite impression.
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23rd October 2009, 11:12 PM	#31
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote I'm more interested in getting the religious (that is, the ones who think that non-theists are inherently immoral) to realize that atheists, agnostics, secular humanists etc. can be just as good and compassionate as theists. There will always be people who are pissed off by something, but some of them may change their attitude if they are given a good reason to challenge their assumptions. Bingo, FZ.
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24th October 2009, 12:14 AM	#32
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote I'm more interested in getting the religious (that is, the ones who think that non-theists are inherently immoral) to realize that atheists, agnostics, secular humanists etc. can be just as good and compassionate as theists. There will always be people who are pissed off by something, but some of them may change their attitude if they are given a good reason to challenge their assumptions. I suppose there is a virtue in that. For my part, I think its also important to let certain theists know that they cannot get away with being unchallenged. The ones who insist you should be a Christian nation. The ones who think theirs is the default position. If they think secular people atheists etc cannot be good, then its a cognitive problem for them. Some will never change their attitude and I think they are the ones you can fairly piss off. Some people deserve that, many, those who become curious for instance, deserve respect and patience.
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24th October 2009, 01:29 AM	#33
hamelekim Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,134	Originally Posted by Beerina Exactly! We should praise God and be joyous we live in a reality where this loving father will torture us for ever and ever if we crank one off while thinking about Girl Dujour from Hollywood. If that is what you believe then you fail to understand God and you fail to understand sin. There would be no point in worshiping God if there were no consequences for not doing so. He would be essentially inconsequential. Essentially you are trying to make God adhere to your views on what is right or wrong. But God is sovereign and had a different set of standards, which we are to hold to. So feel free to hate the God of the Bible, and to ridicule him all you want, but some day you will find out how wrong you truly are, and I hope you isn't too late for you at that time to repent.

24th October 2009, 01:31 AM	#34
hamelekim Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,134	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote I'm more interested in getting the religious (that is, the ones who think that non-theists are inherently immoral) to realize that atheists, agnostics, secular humanists etc. can be just as good and compassionate as theists. There will always be people who are pissed off by something, but some of them may change their attitude if they are given a good reason to challenge their assumptions. One cannot be good without God. So you can follow some of God's laws all you want, but that only condemns you before God, because you follow some but not all of his laws. By following them you give validity to God's morality. It's not about works, it's about grace and faith.

24th October 2009, 02:14 AM	#35
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	You cant even prove an existence of God and here you are talking as if you know Her mind. You are just being very silly.
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064