New Mac Owner - Teach Me Stuff!

JoeyDonuts · 20th October 2009, 09:38 PM

I bought an iMac this week.

My eMachines POS finally bit the big one. I had just enough time to salvage the important stuff. Needing a replacement, and fully intending on purchasing a Dell, I head off to the local megalotronic retailer to pick up a nice shiny new toy.

When I get there, there are no PCs anywhere to be found. When I asked the staff, I was told the reason they weren't selling was the upcoming Windows 7 upgrade. I told them I needed a computer today and was fully capable of upgrading to Windows 7 on my own. They then told me if they sold me a PC with Vista on it, Microsoft could slap them with a fine. (They were required to not sell anything until they were all upgraded with Windows 7 on the 22nd.)

I skipped over to the shiny iMac section, and took stock of exactly what it is I do with computers. I do photo editing, video work, and music tracking, as well as surfing the web.

Yeah, I bought one. So far I couldn't be happier, although all I've really managed to accomplish so far is twisting my face into horrible contortions with the Photo Booth application.

So! Have any of you recently crossed over to Mac like I have? What sorts of issues did you have in transition?

For you seasoned Mac'ers, are there any tips or advice you can dish out? Cool things you've learned how to do?

Thanks!

The Central Scrutinizer · 20th October 2009, 09:48 PM

I don't know if you have to give presentations, but if you do, get iWork, which includes KeyNote. KeyNote is so far superior to PowerPoint, that it's not even a fair comparison.

tesscaline · 20th October 2009, 09:49 PM

Well... I'm not a recent convert, and had no trouble at all switching over. My mother converted not too long ago, and her main issue was expecting to have to do all sorts of things that you don't need to do on a mac. Like install drivers for hardware. And she would get confused when installing things because there were no instructions other than to plug the item in. She kept thinking she had to do more. But you don't. Mac really is plug and play.

Some of the nifty things you can do in Mac:

Drag and drop files into macmail emails to attach them. No more searching through folders to find the file you have open on your desktop, just drag and drop it into the email.
Option+Tab will cycle through your active applications for quick keyboard switching.
Option+M will minimize your current window.
To eject discs, drag the disc icon to the trash bin (or right click on it and pick eject).
Hitting F11 will move all open windows off your desktop, and hitting F11 again will bring them all back.
Hitting F12 will bring up all sorts of fun widgets, which you can add to easily, like weather, clock, calendar, calculator, etc. Hitting F12 again will hide them.

There are half a million (I might not even be exaggerating here) other really neat little things about Macs, but I'm having difficulty remembering them off the top of my head...

Ducky · 20th October 2009, 10:08 PM

Joey: In the thread on tutorials, do you want to drop a quick reminder note to me and GreNME about mac stuff? I have some tricks up my sleeve with macs.

Also, you should check out lifehacker.com as it has lots of neat apps for all platforms they showcase.

jimtron · 20th October 2009, 10:15 PM

JD:

If you click on any file, and hit the spacebar, you'll get a preview of it. If it's a video or audio file, you can play it right there without opening any application.

What kind of stuff do you do/want to do? Let us know if you have any specific questions. Here's some good open source Mac software: http://www.opensourcemac.org/

JoeyDonuts · 20th October 2009, 10:28 PM

To be honest, I will only use it for photo editing, video editing, and tracking with garage band. Possibly some coursework later on if it becomes necessary. I got OpenOffice and so far can't see why I'd need anything else.

I do have a few complaints so far.

One, the mouse. I don't really like it. I've enabled right-click, but I still don't care for it one bit, mostly because of the scroll "nub" or whatever that is.

ETA: And then I saw this: http://gizmodo.com/5385834/apple-magic-mouse-hands-on

Two, I have the small keyboard - which I will keep since the way my desk is set up (pull out drawer) it fits the mouse pad and the keyboard right on the drawer. With my PC I had to set the mouse up on the desk surface since there's wasn't room for it with the keyboard.

Anyway, I like that PC's let you use the Ctrl+Home trick to go right to the top of a webpage/document. Is there an analogous Mac function on the small keyboard?

jimtron · 20th October 2009, 10:33 PM

You can use a non-Mac mouse if you prefer. But the scroll nub is super-handy, for scrolling up and down pages and stuff. Not sure about a keyboard shortcut for getting to the top of a page/doc, other than the "page up" key.

Handbrake is a great, free OS X app for compressing video for the Web, iPhone, DVDs, etc. Also MpegStreamclip.

eta: you might prefer a different mouse, and any USB mouse should work, but give it a few days--it takes a bit to get used to, but it's well designed.
eta2: I use FCP for editing, but iMovie and iDVD are pretty swell too.

JoeyDonuts · 20th October 2009, 10:35 PM

Just thought of something else. Is there a way to set up dual-screen display using an iMac? My old ViewSonic flat panel monitor is still pretty usable...will it split using DVI?

jimtron · 20th October 2009, 10:45 PM

I believe the iMac should have a mini-DVI port allowing a second display. Go to System Preferences: Display to set the second monitor the way you want.

JoeyDonuts · 20th October 2009, 10:49 PM

I'm already about 85 percent done with a wedding movie project using iMovie. I'm going to be getting FCP, but I might as well finish out what I've got so far in iMovie. I was stunned by how easy it is to select clips out of a large master file. What would have taken me three hours in Windows Movie Maker took me about 30 minutes in iMovie.

jimtron · 20th October 2009, 10:58 PM

Yeah, iMovie's great. Also, have you set up Time Machine? It's pretty nifty. Connect an external drive, turn it on, and then you can enter your computer just the way it was a few hours ago, or a few days. If you screwed up or deleted a file, you can easily grab an older copy.

JoeyDonuts · 20th October 2009, 11:06 PM

I've heard Time Machine slows down overall system performance. any truth to that?

jimtron · 20th October 2009, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

I've heard Time Machine slows down overall system performance. any truth to that?

Hmm, haven't noticed. But there's an option to have TM displayed in the menu bar, and when it's backing up you'll see it spinning. You could give it a try and turn it off if it's hurting your Mac's performance. You gotta have some form of backup.

Gilmar · 20th October 2009, 11:17 PM

The "Missing Manual" series is pretty good. Here's a link for the one for OS X Leopard:
http://www.amazon.com/Mac-OS-Leopard.../dp/059652952X
My cousin found it very useful going from PC to Mac. There are many other manuals in the series.

jimtron · 20th October 2009, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Gilmar

The "Missing Manual" series is pretty good. Here's a link for the one for OS X Leopard:
http://www.amazon.com/Mac-OS-Leopard.../dp/059652952X
My cousin found it very useful going from PC to Mac. There are many other manuals in the series.

Good suggestion. PDF manuals available from Apple here: http://www.apple.com/support/ (both for OS and hardware). Also the Apple forums are decent: http://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa

Darat · 20th October 2009, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

...snip...

When I get there, there are no PCs anywhere to be found. When I asked the staff, I was told the reason they weren't selling was the upcoming Windows 7 upgrade. I told them I needed a computer today and was fully capable of upgrading to Windows 7 on my own. They then told me if they sold me a PC with Vista on it, Microsoft could slap them with a fine. (They were required to not sell anything until they were all upgraded with Windows 7 on the 22nd.)

...snip...

Why do people tell such lies? (Not you JoeyDonuts, the store and their staff.)

Darat · 20th October 2009, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

To be honest, I will only use it for photo editing, video editing, and tracking with garage band. Possibly some coursework later on if it becomes necessary. I got OpenOffice and so far can't see why I'd need anything else.

I do have a few complaints so far.

One, the mouse. I don't really like it. I've enabled right-click, but I still don't care for it one bit, mostly because of the scroll "nub" or whatever that is.

ETA: And then I saw this: http://gizmodo.com/5385834/apple-magic-mouse-hands-on

...snip...

Not tried that new mouse but I've hated all the other Apple mice I've tried - I swapped to a Logitech USB mouse some time ago on my Mac (despite the Mac not supporting all the mouse's features....).

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

Two, I have the small keyboard - which I will keep since the way my desk is set up (pull out drawer) it fits the mouse pad and the keyboard right on the drawer. With my PC I had to set the mouse up on the desk surface since there's wasn't room for it with the keyboard.

Anyway, I like that PC's let you use the Ctrl+Home trick to go right to the top of a webpage/document. Is there an analogous Mac function on the small keyboard?

This site: http://www.xvsxp.com/misc/keyboard.php lists the Mac/XP common keyboard shortcuts.

I really, really do recommend that you spend sometime learning the keyboard "shortcuts" - unlike a Windows PC on a Mac they are not really shortcuts but essentials if you want to be able to use your Mac proficiently.

BenBurch · 21st October 2009, 12:27 AM

Where to find software; http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/

If you are interested in ported Unix/Linux software; http://www.finkproject.org/

If you download a lot of content, get this; http://yazsoft.com/products/speed-download/information/

I almost always use this instead of photoshop; http://www.pixelmator.com/

If you edit web sites, I like these folk's stuff; http://macrabbit.com/

If you work with audio, I couldn't do my work without the software from; http://www.rogueamoeba.com/

For text file editing, nothing is better than BBEdit, or its free little brother, TextWrangler; http://bbedit.com/products/

And even though its a mac, an antivirus is a good idea; http://www.clamxav.com/index.php?page=v2beta

BenBurch · 21st October 2009, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

I've heard Time Machine slows down overall system performance. any truth to that?

Well, when you first turn it on it will do a lot of file copying, as you might expect. And anything that copies files takes some processor and machine bandwidth, and time machine schedules every hour.

There is a utility called TimeMachineEditor that will let you make it schedule less often. I really do recommend you let it run when it wants to. You have no idea how often it will allow you to save yourself from a screw-up! And easily too. Get yourself a 2 TB external disk, give it over to Time Machine, and never look back. You will be able to recover files and emails you deleted months ago.

JoeyDonuts · 21st October 2009, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Why do people tell such lies? (Not you JoeyDonuts, the store and their staff.)

Just curious...do you know for a fact this is false?

I only ask because I was given the information by employees of a very large US retailer. I'd like to know if one of the largest if not THE largest consumer electronics retailers in the world willingly blew smoke up my backside.

As to the other information, thank you all tremendously for the suggestions.

I'll forward this thread on to my wife, as we're both getting used to our "Mac feet."

I have to confess, at this point, most of my "gear dreaming" involves trying to successfully record a live drum kit in my living room using Garageband. I have a vaulted ceiling...I think I can do it, but I may need to upgrade past 2GB ram if I'm going to be dealing with 8 simultaneous CD-quality audio streams through FireWire.

Ducky · 21st October 2009, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Where to find software; http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/

If you are interested in ported Unix/Linux software; http://www.finkproject.org/

If you download a lot of content, get this; http://yazsoft.com/products/speed-download/information/

I almost always use this instead of photoshop; http://www.pixelmator.com/

If you edit web sites, I like these folk's stuff; http://macrabbit.com/

If you work with audio, I couldn't do my work without the software from; http://www.rogueamoeba.com/

For text file editing, nothing is better than BBEdit, or its free little brother, TextWrangler; http://bbedit.com/products/

And even though its a mac, an antivirus is a good idea; http://www.clamxav.com/index.php?page=v2beta

My personal opinion is to use macports over fink.

But YMMV.

Ducky · 21st October 2009, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

Just curious...do you know for a fact this is false?

I only ask because I was given the information by employees of a very large US retailer. I'd like to know if one of the largest if not THE largest consumer electronics retailers in the world willingly blew smoke up my backside.

As to the other information, thank you all tremendously for the suggestions.

I'll forward this thread on to my wife, as we're both getting used to our "Mac feet."

I have to confess, at this point, most of my "gear dreaming" involves trying to successfully record a live drum kit in my living room using Garageband. I have a vaulted ceiling...I think I can do it, but I may need to upgrade past 2GB ram if I'm going to be dealing with 8 simultaneous CD-quality audio streams through FireWire.

if you limit to 8, no you won't (Garageband limits you to 8, iirc). I have done that. I have even tracked 16 at once at 44.1 over firewire to an older macbook pro. Currently I track 36 inputs on my latest rig. Your bottleneck will be your hard disk speeds, not your ram.

In fact, you'd be surprised how much you can track. This I have direct experience in. Trust me on this: Spend the money for Logic (either express or studio pro.)

Email me if you have any questions. My entire studio is built around macs running Logic.

JoeyDonuts · 21st October 2009, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by Ducky

Email me if you have any questions. My entire studio is built around macs running Logic.

Expect that email. My band is getting sick of being jerked around by one of the more traditional studios here in town, and I'm thinking I'd rather spend money, time, and effort into doing it all ourselves. It's intimidating, but we know what we should sound like, we know what a good mix (and a BAD mix) is, and if my Mac + some sweat equity can make that happen, I'll be really happy.

Ernie M · 21st October 2009, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

[...]

One, the mouse. I don't really like it. I've enabled right-click, but I still don't care for it one bit, mostly because of the scroll "nub" or whatever that is.

[...]

Hi JoeyDonuts,

Sounds like you bought your iMac right before the 'new' ones were introduced on 20 Oct 2009. The 'new' iMacs have a "wireless Magic Mouse" which doesn't have the small scroll ball you mentioned, and the 'new' screen display sizes are 21.5" and 27."

Click here and see if one of these iMacs is the one you have.

If you don't have one of these iMacs, I believe you can take your just-bought (previous-model) iMac and return it for one of the newly-released models. I believe Apple should allow the exchange if it is done within a certain time frame.

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

[...]
Two, I have the small keyboard - which I will keep since the way my desk is set up (pull out drawer) it fits the mouse pad and the keyboard right on the drawer. With my PC I had to set the mouse up on the desk surface since there's wasn't room for it with the keyboard.
[...

You might not need to use a mouse pad, as the optical sensor underneath the mouse may be able to work by seeing your desk or keyboard tray surface, so try it without a mouse pad and see it it works. Also, the mouse is built so that it should glide across most surfaces. But be aware that over time, the rubbing action may wear the surface, producing a shiny smooth spot.

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

Anyway, I like that PC's let you use the Ctrl+Home trick to go right to the top of a webpage/document. Is there an analogous Mac function on the small keyboard?

On the "small keyboard":
To get to the top of a Web page: "command" + "up arrow" (one of those little, filled-in triangles)
To get the cursor to the top of say, an iWorks "Pages" document: "command" + "up arrow" (one of those little, filled-in triangles)

Click here for additional Mac OS X keyboard shortcuts

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

Just thought of something else. Is there a way to set up dual-screen display using an iMac? My old ViewSonic flat panel monitor is still pretty usable...will it split using DVI?

You should have a 'Mini DisplayPort' on the back of the 'new' (20 Oct 2009 version) iMac. You will need an adaptor cable; 'Mini DisplayPort' to VGA Adapter, for example.

Click here to view Cables.

jimtron mentioned a good way to set your iMac to view while running another monitor. A different way is to click on the 'screen' icon at the top of the menu bar, and from the pull-down menu choose "detect displays" and also go to "Display Preferences" > "Arrangements" to select how you'd prefer to 'order' your screens.

Darat · 21st October 2009, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

Just curious...do you know for a fact this is false?

I only ask because I was given the information by employees of a very large US retailer. I'd like to know if one of the largest if not THE largest consumer electronics retailers in the world willingly blew smoke up my backside.

...snip...

I can't be 100% certain however you can pick up a new PC from the likes of Curry and PC World (UK big electrical & PC store chains) today with Vista as the OS. Plus how would Microsoft impose a fine on a retailer of such a size? All the retailers over here have been selling their PCs with Vista and a "free upgrade" coupon to Win7 for the last month or so, I've just put together a new Windows PC (see:http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=156376) and was looking to place my order last week and there was not a one that wouldn't take my order.

Also Vista - retail and OEM - will still be a SKU that a retailer or system builder can buy from MS for quite some time.

Their story doesn't pass my sniff test!

JoeyDonuts · 21st October 2009, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ernie M

If you don't have one of these iMacs, I believe you can take your just-bought (previous-model) iMac and return it for one of the newly-released models. I believe Apple should allow the exchange if it is done within a certain time frame.

Fascinating. I'll be making this phone call VERY soon.

Zax63 · 21st October 2009, 10:09 AM

About 1 1/2 years old but there is probably still some good info in the thread I started when I got my Macbook: OK, I got a Macbook. Now what?

NoZed Avenger · 21st October 2009, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

I can't be 100% certain however you can pick up a new PC from the likes of Curry and PC World (UK big electrical & PC store chains) today with Vista as the OS. Plus how would Microsoft impose a fine on a retailer of such a size? All the retailers over here have been selling their PCs with Vista and a "free upgrade" coupon to Win7 for the last month or so, I've just put together a new Windows PC (see:http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=156376) and was looking to place my order last week and there was not a one that wouldn't take my order.

Also Vista - retail and OEM - will still be a SKU that a retailer or system builder can buy from MS for quite some time.

Their story doesn't pass my sniff test!

I will also add that I bet the large retailer has the initials B.B.

I happened to speak to a salesperson at one of there stores in a similar situation (a lack of on-the-shelf computers) and he was very frank. When Vista rolled out, they got stuck with a large number of non-Vista machines. This time, they decided to stop ordering stock coming up on the release of Windows 7 so they wouldn't have as big a problem -- but *underestimated* the number of sales, and so ran out of stock. I have heard the same from a friend.

The Central Scrutinizer · 21st October 2009, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

I only ask because I was given the information by employees of a very large US retailer. I'd like to know if one of the largest if not THE largest consumer electronics retailers in the world willingly blew smoke up my backside.

Given that Best Buy insisted that they delivered a TV to me, even though I couldn't find it anywhere in my house, it wouldn't surprise me that they would lie about not being able to sell you a Vista PC.

tesscaline · 21st October 2009, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by NoZed Avenger

I will also add that I bet the large retailer has the initials B.B.

I happened to speak to a salesperson at one of there stores in a similar situation (a lack of on-the-shelf computers) and he was very frank. When Vista rolled out, they got stuck with a large number of non-Vista machines. This time, they decided to stop ordering stock coming up on the release of Windows 7 so they wouldn't have as big a problem -- but *underestimated* the number of sales, and so ran out of stock. I have heard the same from a friend.

Best Buy is well known for not only making errors as huge as this one, but also lying to customers intentionally.

Examples:

1) Best Buy was recently sued for purposefully making their internal store sites (inventory and the like) look exactly like their commercial website. Why was this an issue? People would look up the price of something on the website, and walk into the store to buy it. But, in the store, the price would be higher. People would complain, and the store clerks would say "you were mistaken, go look it up on our computer here, and see for yourself" except the in-store computer wouldn't take them to the commercial website, it would take them to the instore site, which would of course display the higher price. People caught on when they would go home, look up the site again just to triple check, and found that indeed, the website had a lower price.

2) We went to Best Buy to pick up a Nintendo DS. Before going, we checked their website for availability. The website said they had 8 of the color we wanted in stock. So, we drove over, and went to the aisle they would be in. Except there weren't any. So we ask a clerk. "Nope, don't have any in stock" he says before walking off again. Confused, we ask another clerk, and explain that the website says they have 8 in stock but the first clerk says there aren't any. So this clerk looks at their inventory tracking system. Yep, it says 8 of the color we want, and a good 16 others in different colors. That's 24 total. And there are zero on the shelves. So that clerk goes to look in the stock room. None in the stock room. So we go back to the original clerk, and ask what's up. His explanation? An inventory error. So, either Best Buy has inventory tracking issues SO bad that they just "lose" nearly 5k worth of merchandise, or the clerk in charge of that section was lying. Either way, it's bad business.

GreNME · 21st October 2009, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

For you seasoned Mac'ers, are there any tips or advice you can dish out?

Sure: go out to the store, buy Windows 7 tomorrow, and install that on the machine as the main OS.

Sorry, couldn't resist. So far everything Ducky has said I agree with, and the links from BenB look interesting. If there's anything in particular you want to try to do, hit Ducky or me (or any of the Mac folk here) up for how-to info.

GreNME · 21st October 2009, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by SkeptiChick

Best Buy is well known for not only making errors as huge as this one, but also lying to customers intentionally.

Examples:

1) Best Buy was recently sued for purposefully making their internal store sites (inventory and the like) look exactly like their commercial website. Why was this an issue? People would look up the price of something on the website, and walk into the store to buy it. But, in the store, the price would be higher. People would complain, and the store clerks would say "you were mistaken, go look it up on our computer here, and see for yourself" except the in-store computer wouldn't take them to the commercial website, it would take them to the instore site, which would of course display the higher price. People caught on when they would go home, look up the site again just to triple check, and found that indeed, the website had a lower price.

2) We went to Best Buy to pick up a Nintendo DS. Before going, we checked their website for availability. The website said they had 8 of the color we wanted in stock. So, we drove over, and went to the aisle they would be in. Except there weren't any. So we ask a clerk. "Nope, don't have any in stock" he says before walking off again. Confused, we ask another clerk, and explain that the website says they have 8 in stock but the first clerk says there aren't any. So this clerk looks at their inventory tracking system. Yep, it says 8 of the color we want, and a good 16 others in different colors. That's 24 total. And there are zero on the shelves. So that clerk goes to look in the stock room. None in the stock room. So we go back to the original clerk, and ask what's up. His explanation? An inventory error. So, either Best Buy has inventory tracking issues SO bad that they just "lose" nearly 5k worth of merchandise, or the clerk in charge of that section was lying. Either way, it's bad business.

My guess is that someone thought they could save a few on the side and sell off at a premium to a given customer who just-so-happens to offer them above-sticker price.

Oh, and you forgot number three: BB Geek Squad folk have been caught red-handed searching people's hard drives for images and music, using the store's network to keep a media dump (of movies, music, and pics), using unlicensed system repair software, and other sketchy practices. Never go to the Geek Squad for fixing your computer, or do so at your own risk.

tesscaline · 21st October 2009, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by GreNME

My guess is that someone thought they could save a few on the side and sell off at a premium to a given customer who just-so-happens to offer them above-sticker price.

My guess was similar, but as I have no evidence, it's not something I'm willing to insinuate publicly.

Quote:

Oh, and you forgot number three: BB Geek Squad folk have been caught red-handed searching people's hard drives for images and music, using the store's network to keep a media dump (of movies, music, and pics), using unlicensed system repair software, and other sketchy practices. Never go to the Geek Squad for fixing your computer, or do so at your own risk.

Ugh. I had forgotten about Geek Squad. In addition to that particular practice (of stealing media off people's computers), on a purely technical nature, anything they can't immediately fix with a few button clicks they send out to contracted repair shops. According to an article I read (oh I wish I could find that article again), 90% of the things they send out to the repair shops are either not actually broken at all, or slightly broken but not nearly to the level that Geek Squad says they are. Like, sending a computer out to have the hard drive replaced (claiming hard drive failure) when really all that it needed was to have some viruses removed...

leonAzul · 21st October 2009, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

Anyway, I like that PC's let you use the Ctrl+Home trick to go right to the top of a webpage/document. Is there an analogous Mac function on the small keyboard?

The standard is "cmd-up arrow" for top of page, "cmd-down arrow" for bottom. That's fairly consistent in most documents. Many video and music apps will use that to control zoom. In "Finder", they mean "change to parent directory" or "open", as in the backspace key and the enter key in Windows Explorer.

In general, most of the keybindings in Windows can be translated to Mac by using the command key ['apple' key] instead of the control key: cmd-Z = undo; cmd-X = cut; cmd-A = select all; cmd-Q = quit; etc.

ETA

Using the 'fn' key to the far left of the keyboard, the arrow keys can also be used for page up, page down, home, and end.

Beanbag · 21st October 2009, 03:47 PM

First off, remember: it's an APPLIANCE, not a computer...

Beanbag

leonAzul · 21st October 2009, 09:12 PM

A few other software suggestions come to mind:

While you are sorting things out, take a look at Reaper as an alternative to GarageBand or one of the more "heavyweight" DAWs.

For an excellent graphics editor, especially when dealing with large numbers of files as you might if you need to prepare web site graphics, GraphicConverter is hard to beat. CS4 and GIMP might offer more creative tools, but neither are as convenient for batch processing. For simple cropping, rotation and color balancing, iPhoto might be enough.

JoeyDonuts · 21st October 2009, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by leonAzul

While you are sorting things out, take a look at Reaper as an alternative to GarageBand or one of the more "heavyweight" DAWs.

Right now I'm leaning towards the following setup:

Apple Logic Studio
Alesis IO/26 interface
Samson 8Kit Drum Mic Set
Some sort of Ribbon Microphone for vocals/guitar amp
Shure SM 57's for general use

There's some disagreement in the band about just how much utility we'd be able to get out of a setup like this. I think we've all settled on the fact it would be an awesome way to cut scratch tracks - but anything past that I really don't know about.

On top of that, vocal recording scares me a little. I don't have much experience with the subtleties involved in that - or mixing/mastering, for that matter. I'm pretty sure we'd outsource those to a pro studio that used Logic.

Quote:

For an excellent graphics editor, especially when dealing with large numbers of files as you might if you need to prepare web site graphics, GraphicConverter is hard to beat. CS4 and GIMP might offer more creative tools, but neither are as convenient for batch processing. For simple cropping, rotation and color balancing, iPhoto might be enough.

The wife's already pretty enamored of iPhoto - particularly the face-tagging option. Certain members of my family are freaked out that my computer is now able to identify their face about 50 percent of the time.

GreNME · 21st October 2009, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by leonAzul

While you are sorting things out, take a look at Reaper as an alternative to GarageBand or one of the more "heavyweight" DAWs.

Wow, it's like ACID Music Studio (though it hasn't improved since ACID Pro 4).

Seriously, though, I think GB is pretty decent for a free program that comes with the OS.

jimtron · 21st October 2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

On top of that, vocal recording scares me a little. I don't have much experience with the subtleties involved in that - or mixing/mastering, for that matter. I'm pretty sure we'd outsource those to a pro studio that used Logic.

If you're just planning on recording rough demos, vocals aren't particularly difficult--getting great drum and bass sounds at home might be a lot harder. Even with a cheap mic like the SM57 you can get OK vocals, but it would help a lot to have a mic preamp and compressor. But again, if you're not going for a finished product, you might want to keep things as simple as possible, and just concentrate on getting good levels and separation between instruments. Basic mixing isn't terribly difficult, but mastering should probably be left to someone who specializes in that.

pounce · 21st October 2009, 10:10 PM

I'm another one here who could help with audio on the mac advice. My website has some info about me...

www.paperstreetaudio.com

I have three macs there. Oddly, I've never much liked garageband. Logic would be an excellent thing to pick up, and as has been mentioned, an external hard drive for the audio would be swell. With those two things you would be set for some time, and then you could go to studios with nicer acoustic treatment, outboard gear, etc. to do real work for a release.

For someone new to the mac, I'd have iwork and ilife to make sure the basics were covered. I'd download perian and flip4mac so you had any necessary windows codecs. As needed, you could pick up an ftp program, something like onyx or cocktail to maintain the computer, nvu for website creation, and who knows what. Here is one good link for some things you might want to download..

http://www.macinstruct.com/node/139

Hope that gets you off to a good start. I suspect you'll love it. My macbook pro has osx, windows, and ubuntu linux on it so you can still mess with other os's if you have any interest in doing so. Have fun.

20th October 2009, 09:38 PM	#1
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	New Mac Owner - Teach Me Stuff! I bought an iMac this week. My eMachines POS finally bit the big one. I had just enough time to salvage the important stuff. Needing a replacement, and fully intending on purchasing a Dell, I head off to the local megalotronic retailer to pick up a nice shiny new toy. When I get there, there are no PCs anywhere to be found. When I asked the staff, I was told the reason they weren't selling was the upcoming Windows 7 upgrade. I told them I needed a computer today and was fully capable of upgrading to Windows 7 on my own. They then told me if they sold me a PC with Vista on it, Microsoft could slap them with a fine. (They were required to not sell anything until they were all upgraded with Windows 7 on the 22nd.) I skipped over to the shiny iMac section, and took stock of exactly what it is I do with computers. I do photo editing, video work, and music tracking, as well as surfing the web. Yeah, I bought one. So far I couldn't be happier, although all I've really managed to accomplish so far is twisting my face into horrible contortions with the Photo Booth application. So! Have any of you recently crossed over to Mac like I have? What sorts of issues did you have in transition? For you seasoned Mac'ers, are there any tips or advice you can dish out? Cool things you've learned how to do? Thanks!
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20th October 2009, 09:48 PM	#2
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,268	I don't know if you have to give presentations, but if you do, get iWork, which includes KeyNote. KeyNote is so far superior to PowerPoint, that it's not even a fair comparison.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

20th October 2009, 10:15 PM	#5
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	JD: If you click on any file, and hit the spacebar, you'll get a preview of it. If it's a video or audio file, you can play it right there without opening any application. What kind of stuff do you do/want to do? Let us know if you have any specific questions. Here's some good open source Mac software: http://www.opensourcemac.org/
	__________________

20th October 2009, 10:28 PM	#6
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	To be honest, I will only use it for photo editing, video editing, and tracking with garage band. Possibly some coursework later on if it becomes necessary. I got OpenOffice and so far can't see why I'd need anything else. I do have a few complaints so far. One, the mouse. I don't really like it. I've enabled right-click, but I still don't care for it one bit, mostly because of the scroll "nub" or whatever that is. ETA: And then I saw this: http://gizmodo.com/5385834/apple-magic-mouse-hands-on Two, I have the small keyboard - which I will keep since the way my desk is set up (pull out drawer) it fits the mouse pad and the keyboard right on the drawer. With my PC I had to set the mouse up on the desk surface since there's wasn't room for it with the keyboard. Anyway, I like that PC's let you use the Ctrl+Home trick to go right to the top of a webpage/document. Is there an analogous Mac function on the small keyboard?
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20th October 2009, 10:33 PM	#7
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	You can use a non-Mac mouse if you prefer. But the scroll nub is super-handy, for scrolling up and down pages and stuff. Not sure about a keyboard shortcut for getting to the top of a page/doc, other than the "page up" key. Handbrake is a great, free OS X app for compressing video for the Web, iPhone, DVDs, etc. Also MpegStreamclip. eta: you might prefer a different mouse, and any USB mouse should work, but give it a few days--it takes a bit to get used to, but it's well designed. eta2: I use FCP for editing, but iMovie and iDVD are pretty swell too.
	__________________ Last edited by jimtron; 20th October 2009 at 10:38 PM.

20th October 2009, 09:49 PM	#3
tesscaline Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 4,037	Well... I'm not a recent convert, and had no trouble at all switching over. My mother converted not too long ago, and her main issue was expecting to have to do all sorts of things that you don't need to do on a mac. Like install drivers for hardware. And she would get confused when installing things because there were no instructions other than to plug the item in. She kept thinking she had to do more. But you don't. Mac really is plug and play. Some of the nifty things you can do in Mac: Drag and drop files into macmail emails to attach them. No more searching through folders to find the file you have open on your desktop, just drag and drop it into the email. Option+Tab will cycle through your active applications for quick keyboard switching. Option+M will minimize your current window. To eject discs, drag the disc icon to the trash bin (or right click on it and pick eject). Hitting F11 will move all open windows off your desktop, and hitting F11 again will bring them all back. Hitting F12 will bring up all sorts of fun widgets, which you can add to easily, like weather, clock, calendar, calculator, etc. Hitting F12 again will hide them. There are half a million (I might not even be exaggerating here) other really neat little things about Macs, but I'm having difficulty remembering them off the top of my head...

20th October 2009, 10:08 PM	#4
Ducky Titanium Puprhero Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mayor of your front lawn. Posts: 12,296	Joey: In the thread on tutorials, do you want to drop a quick reminder note to me and GreNME about mac stuff? I have some tricks up my sleeve with macs. Also, you should check out lifehacker.com as it has lots of neat apps for all platforms they showcase.

20th October 2009, 10:35 PM	#8
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	Just thought of something else. Is there a way to set up dual-screen display using an iMac? My old ViewSonic flat panel monitor is still pretty usable...will it split using DVI?
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20th October 2009, 10:45 PM	#9
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	I believe the iMac should have a mini-DVI port allowing a second display. Go to System Preferences: Display to set the second monitor the way you want.
	__________________

20th October 2009, 10:49 PM	#10
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	I'm already about 85 percent done with a wedding movie project using iMovie. I'm going to be getting FCP, but I might as well finish out what I've got so far in iMovie. I was stunned by how easy it is to select clips out of a large master file. What would have taken me three hours in Windows Movie Maker took me about 30 minutes in iMovie.
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20th October 2009, 10:58 PM	#11
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	Yeah, iMovie's great. Also, have you set up Time Machine? It's pretty nifty. Connect an external drive, turn it on, and then you can enter your computer just the way it was a few hours ago, or a few days. If you screwed up or deleted a file, you can easily grab an older copy.
	__________________

20th October 2009, 11:06 PM	#12
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	I've heard Time Machine slows down overall system performance. any truth to that?
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20th October 2009, 11:09 PM	#13
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts I've heard Time Machine slows down overall system performance. any truth to that? Hmm, haven't noticed. But there's an option to have TM displayed in the menu bar, and when it's backing up you'll see it spinning. You could give it a try and turn it off if it's hurting your Mac's performance. You gotta have some form of backup.
	__________________

20th October 2009, 11:17 PM	#14
Gilmar Muse Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: From the desert to the sea. Posts: 564	The "Missing Manual" series is pretty good. Here's a link for the one for OS X Leopard: http://www.amazon.com/Mac-OS-Leopard.../dp/059652952X My cousin found it very useful going from PC to Mac. There are many other manuals in the series.
	__________________ Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo, I'm pulling over the side of the road to let the ambulance drive by. - Senex "World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimization." - Less Wrong You can't make Frodo a Jedi without giving Sauron the Death Star. - Less Wrong

20th October 2009, 11:30 PM	#15
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	Originally Posted by Gilmar The "Missing Manual" series is pretty good. Here's a link for the one for OS X Leopard: http://www.amazon.com/Mac-OS-Leopard.../dp/059652952X My cousin found it very useful going from PC to Mac. There are many other manuals in the series. Good suggestion. PDF manuals available from Apple here: http://www.apple.com/support/ (both for OS and hardware). Also the Apple forums are decent: http://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa
	__________________

20th October 2009, 11:42 PM	#16
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,770	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts ...snip... When I get there, there are no PCs anywhere to be found. When I asked the staff, I was told the reason they weren't selling was the upcoming Windows 7 upgrade. I told them I needed a computer today and was fully capable of upgrading to Windows 7 on my own. They then told me if they sold me a PC with Vista on it, Microsoft could slap them with a fine. (They were required to not sell anything until they were all upgraded with Windows 7 on the 22nd.) ...snip... Why do people tell such lies? (Not you JoeyDonuts, the store and their staff.)
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

20th October 2009, 11:48 PM	#17
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,770	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts To be honest, I will only use it for photo editing, video editing, and tracking with garage band. Possibly some coursework later on if it becomes necessary. I got OpenOffice and so far can't see why I'd need anything else. I do have a few complaints so far. One, the mouse. I don't really like it. I've enabled right-click, but I still don't care for it one bit, mostly because of the scroll "nub" or whatever that is. ETA: And then I saw this: http://gizmodo.com/5385834/apple-magic-mouse-hands-on ...snip... Not tried that new mouse but I've hated all the other Apple mice I've tried - I swapped to a Logitech USB mouse some time ago on my Mac (despite the Mac not supporting all the mouse's features....). Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts Two, I have the small keyboard - which I will keep since the way my desk is set up (pull out drawer) it fits the mouse pad and the keyboard right on the drawer. With my PC I had to set the mouse up on the desk surface since there's wasn't room for it with the keyboard. Anyway, I like that PC's let you use the Ctrl+Home trick to go right to the top of a webpage/document. Is there an analogous Mac function on the small keyboard? This site: http://www.xvsxp.com/misc/keyboard.php lists the Mac/XP common keyboard shortcuts. I really, really do recommend that you spend sometime learning the keyboard "shortcuts" - unlike a Windows PC on a Mac they are not really shortcuts but essentials if you want to be able to use your Mac proficiently.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

21st October 2009, 12:27 AM	#18
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,130	Where to find software; http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/ If you are interested in ported Unix/Linux software; http://www.finkproject.org/ If you download a lot of content, get this; http://yazsoft.com/products/speed-download/information/ I almost always use this instead of photoshop; http://www.pixelmator.com/ If you edit web sites, I like these folk's stuff; http://macrabbit.com/ If you work with audio, I couldn't do my work without the software from; http://www.rogueamoeba.com/ For text file editing, nothing is better than BBEdit, or its free little brother, TextWrangler; http://bbedit.com/products/ And even though its a mac, an antivirus is a good idea; http://www.clamxav.com/index.php?page=v2beta
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21st October 2009, 12:32 AM	#19
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,130	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts I've heard Time Machine slows down overall system performance. any truth to that? Well, when you first turn it on it will do a lot of file copying, as you might expect. And anything that copies files takes some processor and machine bandwidth, and time machine schedules every hour. There is a utility called TimeMachineEditor that will let you make it schedule less often. I really do recommend you let it run when it wants to. You have no idea how often it will allow you to save yourself from a screw-up! And easily too. Get yourself a 2 TB external disk, give it over to Time Machine, and never look back. You will be able to recover files and emails you deleted months ago.
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21st October 2009, 01:17 AM	#20
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	Originally Posted by Darat Why do people tell such lies? (Not you JoeyDonuts, the store and their staff.) Just curious...do you know for a fact this is false? I only ask because I was given the information by employees of a very large US retailer. I'd like to know if one of the largest if not THE largest consumer electronics retailers in the world willingly blew smoke up my backside. As to the other information, thank you all tremendously for the suggestions. I'll forward this thread on to my wife, as we're both getting used to our "Mac feet." I have to confess, at this point, most of my "gear dreaming" involves trying to successfully record a live drum kit in my living room using Garageband. I have a vaulted ceiling...I think I can do it, but I may need to upgrade past 2GB ram if I'm going to be dealing with 8 simultaneous CD-quality audio streams through FireWire.
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21st October 2009, 01:32 AM	#21
Ducky Titanium Puprhero Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mayor of your front lawn. Posts: 12,296	Originally Posted by BenBurch Where to find software; http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/ If you are interested in ported Unix/Linux software; http://www.finkproject.org/ If you download a lot of content, get this; http://yazsoft.com/products/speed-download/information/ I almost always use this instead of photoshop; http://www.pixelmator.com/ If you edit web sites, I like these folk's stuff; http://macrabbit.com/ If you work with audio, I couldn't do my work without the software from; http://www.rogueamoeba.com/ For text file editing, nothing is better than BBEdit, or its free little brother, TextWrangler; http://bbedit.com/products/ And even though its a mac, an antivirus is a good idea; http://www.clamxav.com/index.php?page=v2beta My personal opinion is to use macports over fink. But YMMV.

21st October 2009, 01:33 AM	#22
Ducky Titanium Puprhero Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mayor of your front lawn. Posts: 12,296	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts Just curious...do you know for a fact this is false? I only ask because I was given the information by employees of a very large US retailer. I'd like to know if one of the largest if not THE largest consumer electronics retailers in the world willingly blew smoke up my backside. As to the other information, thank you all tremendously for the suggestions. I'll forward this thread on to my wife, as we're both getting used to our "Mac feet." I have to confess, at this point, most of my "gear dreaming" involves trying to successfully record a live drum kit in my living room using Garageband. I have a vaulted ceiling...I think I can do it, but I may need to upgrade past 2GB ram if I'm going to be dealing with 8 simultaneous CD-quality audio streams through FireWire. if you limit to 8, no you won't (Garageband limits you to 8, iirc). I have done that. I have even tracked 16 at once at 44.1 over firewire to an older macbook pro. Currently I track 36 inputs on my latest rig. Your bottleneck will be your hard disk speeds, not your ram. In fact, you'd be surprised how much you can track. This I have direct experience in. Trust me on this: Spend the money for Logic (either express or studio pro.) Email me if you have any questions. My entire studio is built around macs running Logic.
	Last edited by Ducky; 21st October 2009 at 01:35 AM.

21st October 2009, 01:50 AM	#23
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	Originally Posted by Ducky Email me if you have any questions. My entire studio is built around macs running Logic. Expect that email. My band is getting sick of being jerked around by one of the more traditional studios here in town, and I'm thinking I'd rather spend money, time, and effort into doing it all ourselves. It's intimidating, but we know what we should sound like, we know what a good mix (and a BAD mix) is, and if my Mac + some sweat equity can make that happen, I'll be really happy.
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21st October 2009, 03:17 AM	#24
Ernie M Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 444	Exchange it; New iMac just came out Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts [...] One, the mouse. I don't really like it. I've enabled right-click, but I still don't care for it one bit, mostly because of the scroll "nub" or whatever that is. [...] Hi JoeyDonuts, Sounds like you bought your iMac right before the 'new' ones were introduced on 20 Oct 2009. The 'new' iMacs have a "wireless Magic Mouse" which doesn't have the small scroll ball you mentioned, and the 'new' screen display sizes are 21.5" and 27." Click here and see if one of these iMacs is the one you have. If you don't have one of these iMacs, I believe you can take your just-bought (previous-model) iMac and return it for one of the newly-released models. I believe Apple should allow the exchange if it is done within a certain time frame. Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts [...] Two, I have the small keyboard - which I will keep since the way my desk is set up (pull out drawer) it fits the mouse pad and the keyboard right on the drawer. With my PC I had to set the mouse up on the desk surface since there's wasn't room for it with the keyboard. [... You might not need to use a mouse pad, as the optical sensor underneath the mouse may be able to work by seeing your desk or keyboard tray surface, so try it without a mouse pad and see it it works. Also, the mouse is built so that it should glide across most surfaces. But be aware that over time, the rubbing action may wear the surface, producing a shiny smooth spot. Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts Anyway, I like that PC's let you use the Ctrl+Home trick to go right to the top of a webpage/document. Is there an analogous Mac function on the small keyboard? On the "small keyboard": To get to the top of a Web page: "command" + "up arrow" (one of those little, filled-in triangles) To get the cursor to the top of say, an iWorks "Pages" document: "command" + "up arrow" (one of those little, filled-in triangles) Click here for additional Mac OS X keyboard shortcuts Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts Just thought of something else. Is there a way to set up dual-screen display using an iMac? My old ViewSonic flat panel monitor is still pretty usable...will it split using DVI? You should have a 'Mini DisplayPort' on the back of the 'new' (20 Oct 2009 version) iMac. You will need an adaptor cable; 'Mini DisplayPort' to VGA Adapter, for example. Click here to view Cables. jimtron mentioned a good way to set your iMac to view while running another monitor. A different way is to click on the 'screen' icon at the top of the menu bar, and from the pull-down menu choose "detect displays" and also go to "Display Preferences" > "Arrangements" to select how you'd prefer to 'order' your screens.
Ernie M Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 444	__________________ paranormalstateillustrated.com Taking a close look at what you see and hear on a "Real Life. Drama." TV series. Last edited by Ernie M; 21st October 2009 at 03:42 AM. Reason: Added a small detail.

21st October 2009, 03:22 AM	#25
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,770	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts Just curious...do you know for a fact this is false? I only ask because I was given the information by employees of a very large US retailer. I'd like to know if one of the largest if not THE largest consumer electronics retailers in the world willingly blew smoke up my backside. ...snip... I can't be 100% certain however you can pick up a new PC from the likes of Curry and PC World (UK big electrical & PC store chains) today with Vista as the OS. Plus how would Microsoft impose a fine on a retailer of such a size? All the retailers over here have been selling their PCs with Vista and a "free upgrade" coupon to Win7 for the last month or so, I've just put together a new Windows PC (see:http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=156376) and was looking to place my order last week and there was not a one that wouldn't take my order. Also Vista - retail and OEM - will still be a SKU that a retailer or system builder can buy from MS for quite some time. Their story doesn't pass my sniff test!
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

21st October 2009, 03:55 AM	#26
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	Originally Posted by Ernie M If you don't have one of these iMacs, I believe you can take your just-bought (previous-model) iMac and return it for one of the newly-released models. I believe Apple should allow the exchange if it is done within a certain time frame. Fascinating. I'll be making this phone call VERY soon.
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21st October 2009, 10:09 AM	#27
Zax63 Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,665	About 1 1/2 years old but there is probably still some good info in the thread I started when I got my Macbook: OK, I got a Macbook. Now what?

21st October 2009, 10:09 AM	#28
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 11,313	Originally Posted by Darat I can't be 100% certain however you can pick up a new PC from the likes of Curry and PC World (UK big electrical & PC store chains) today with Vista as the OS. Plus how would Microsoft impose a fine on a retailer of such a size? All the retailers over here have been selling their PCs with Vista and a "free upgrade" coupon to Win7 for the last month or so, I've just put together a new Windows PC (see:http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=156376) and was looking to place my order last week and there was not a one that wouldn't take my order. Also Vista - retail and OEM - will still be a SKU that a retailer or system builder can buy from MS for quite some time. Their story doesn't pass my sniff test! I will also add that I bet the large retailer has the initials B.B. I happened to speak to a salesperson at one of there stores in a similar situation (a lack of on-the-shelf computers) and he was very frank. When Vista rolled out, they got stuck with a large number of non-Vista machines. This time, they decided to stop ordering stock coming up on the release of Windows 7 so they wouldn't have as big a problem -- but underestimated the number of sales, and so ran out of stock. I have heard the same from a friend.
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21st October 2009, 10:15 AM	#29
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,268	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts I only ask because I was given the information by employees of a very large US retailer. I'd like to know if one of the largest if not THE largest consumer electronics retailers in the world willingly blew smoke up my backside. Given that Best Buy insisted that they delivered a TV to me, even though I couldn't find it anywhere in my house, it wouldn't surprise me that they would lie about not being able to sell you a Vista PC.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

21st October 2009, 02:29 PM	#30
tesscaline Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 4,037	Originally Posted by NoZed Avenger I will also add that I bet the large retailer has the initials B.B. I happened to speak to a salesperson at one of there stores in a similar situation (a lack of on-the-shelf computers) and he was very frank. When Vista rolled out, they got stuck with a large number of non-Vista machines. This time, they decided to stop ordering stock coming up on the release of Windows 7 so they wouldn't have as big a problem -- but underestimated the number of sales, and so ran out of stock. I have heard the same from a friend. Best Buy is well known for not only making errors as huge as this one, but also lying to customers intentionally. Examples: 1) Best Buy was recently sued for purposefully making their internal store sites (inventory and the like) look exactly like their commercial website. Why was this an issue? People would look up the price of something on the website, and walk into the store to buy it. But, in the store, the price would be higher. People would complain, and the store clerks would say "you were mistaken, go look it up on our computer here, and see for yourself" except the in-store computer wouldn't take them to the commercial website, it would take them to the instore site, which would of course display the higher price. People caught on when they would go home, look up the site again just to triple check, and found that indeed, the website had a lower price. 2) We went to Best Buy to pick up a Nintendo DS. Before going, we checked their website for availability. The website said they had 8 of the color we wanted in stock. So, we drove over, and went to the aisle they would be in. Except there weren't any. So we ask a clerk. "Nope, don't have any in stock" he says before walking off again. Confused, we ask another clerk, and explain that the website says they have 8 in stock but the first clerk says there aren't any. So this clerk looks at their inventory tracking system. Yep, it says 8 of the color we want, and a good 16 others in different colors. That's 24 total. And there are zero on the shelves. So that clerk goes to look in the stock room. None in the stock room. So we go back to the original clerk, and ask what's up. His explanation? An inventory error. So, either Best Buy has inventory tracking issues SO bad that they just "lose" nearly 5k worth of merchandise, or the clerk in charge of that section was lying. Either way, it's bad business.

21st October 2009, 02:42 PM	#31
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts For you seasoned Mac'ers, are there any tips or advice you can dish out? Sure: go out to the store, buy Windows 7 tomorrow, and install that on the machine as the main OS. Sorry, couldn't resist. So far everything Ducky has said I agree with, and the links from BenB look interesting. If there's anything in particular you want to try to do, hit Ducky or me (or any of the Mac folk here) up for how-to info.
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

21st October 2009, 02:46 PM	#32
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	Originally Posted by SkeptiChick Best Buy is well known for not only making errors as huge as this one, but also lying to customers intentionally. Examples: 1) Best Buy was recently sued for purposefully making their internal store sites (inventory and the like) look exactly like their commercial website. Why was this an issue? People would look up the price of something on the website, and walk into the store to buy it. But, in the store, the price would be higher. People would complain, and the store clerks would say "you were mistaken, go look it up on our computer here, and see for yourself" except the in-store computer wouldn't take them to the commercial website, it would take them to the instore site, which would of course display the higher price. People caught on when they would go home, look up the site again just to triple check, and found that indeed, the website had a lower price. 2) We went to Best Buy to pick up a Nintendo DS. Before going, we checked their website for availability. The website said they had 8 of the color we wanted in stock. So, we drove over, and went to the aisle they would be in. Except there weren't any. So we ask a clerk. "Nope, don't have any in stock" he says before walking off again. Confused, we ask another clerk, and explain that the website says they have 8 in stock but the first clerk says there aren't any. So this clerk looks at their inventory tracking system. Yep, it says 8 of the color we want, and a good 16 others in different colors. That's 24 total. And there are zero on the shelves. So that clerk goes to look in the stock room. None in the stock room. So we go back to the original clerk, and ask what's up. His explanation? An inventory error. So, either Best Buy has inventory tracking issues SO bad that they just "lose" nearly 5k worth of merchandise, or the clerk in charge of that section was lying. Either way, it's bad business. My guess is that someone thought they could save a few on the side and sell off at a premium to a given customer who just-so-happens to offer them above-sticker price. Oh, and you forgot number three: BB Geek Squad folk have been caught red-handed searching people's hard drives for images and music, using the store's network to keep a media dump (of movies, music, and pics), using unlicensed system repair software, and other sketchy practices. Never go to the Geek Squad for fixing your computer, or do so at your own risk.
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

21st October 2009, 02:56 PM	#33
tesscaline Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 4,037	Originally Posted by GreNME My guess is that someone thought they could save a few on the side and sell off at a premium to a given customer who just-so-happens to offer them above-sticker price. My guess was similar, but as I have no evidence, it's not something I'm willing to insinuate publicly. Quote: Oh, and you forgot number three: BB Geek Squad folk have been caught red-handed searching people's hard drives for images and music, using the store's network to keep a media dump (of movies, music, and pics), using unlicensed system repair software, and other sketchy practices. Never go to the Geek Squad for fixing your computer, or do so at your own risk. Ugh. I had forgotten about Geek Squad. In addition to that particular practice (of stealing media off people's computers), on a purely technical nature, anything they can't immediately fix with a few button clicks they send out to contracted repair shops. According to an article I read (oh I wish I could find that article again), 90% of the things they send out to the repair shops are either not actually broken at all, or slightly broken but not nearly to the level that Geek Squad says they are. Like, sending a computer out to have the hard drive replaced (claiming hard drive failure) when really all that it needed was to have some viruses removed...

21st October 2009, 02:58 PM	#34
leonAzul Illuminator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 3,734	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts Anyway, I like that PC's let you use the Ctrl+Home trick to go right to the top of a webpage/document. Is there an analogous Mac function on the small keyboard? The standard is "cmd-up arrow" for top of page, "cmd-down arrow" for bottom. That's fairly consistent in most documents. Many video and music apps will use that to control zoom. In "Finder", they mean "change to parent directory" or "open", as in the backspace key and the enter key in Windows Explorer. In general, most of the keybindings in Windows can be translated to Mac by using the command key ['apple' key] instead of the control key: cmd-Z = undo; cmd-X = cut; cmd-A = select all; cmd-Q = quit; etc. ETA Using the 'fn' key to the far left of the keyboard, the arrow keys can also be used for page up, page down, home, and end.
	__________________ "Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits." - Satchel Paige Last edited by leonAzul; 21st October 2009 at 03:39 PM.

21st October 2009, 03:47 PM	#35
Beanbag Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dallas/Fort Worth Posts: 2,709	First off, remember: it's an APPLIANCE, not a computer... Beanbag
	__________________ Nothing divides an indivisible nation quite as well as religion. Know god, no peace. No god, know peace. If Jesus is the answer, it must be a real dumb question.