USA Today Article: US Joins Effort to Restrict (Anti) Religious Speech

NoZed Avenger · 21st October 2009, 09:03 AM

Read the depressing details in an opinion piece from Professor Jonathan Turley:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/...emy-laws-.html

Quote:

Perhaps in an effort to rehabilitate the United States’ image in the Muslim world, the Obama administration has joined a U.N. effort to restrict religious speech.

* * *

While attracting surprisingly little attention, the Obama administration supported the effort of largely Muslim nations in the U.N. Human Rights Council to recognize exceptions to free speech for any "negative racial and religious stereotyping." The exception was made as part of a resolution supporting free speech that passed this month, but it is the exception, not the rule that worries civil libertarians. Though the resolution was passed unanimously, European and developing countries made it clear that they remain at odds on the issue of protecting religions from criticism. It is viewed as a transparent bid to appeal to the "Muslim street" and our Arab allies, with the administration seeking greater coexistence through the curtailment of objectionable speech. Though it has no direct enforcement (and is weaker than earlier versions), it is still viewed as a victory for those who sought to juxtapose and balance the rights of speech and religion.

While not of the "the sky is falling" variety of bad news, I think the decision is a bad one, trading mere hope for improved attitudes in the short term for long term and probable problems down the road.

Darth Rotor · 21st October 2009, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by NoZed Avenger

Read the depressing details in an opinion piece from Professor Jonathan Turley:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/...emy-laws-.html

While not of the "the sky is falling" variety of bad news, I think the decision is a bad one, trading mere hope for improved attitudes in the short term for long term and probable problems down the road.

If various races and ethnic groups get special victim status, then a winning strategy appears to be, among various religious groups, a quick leap upon that band wagon. When we are all victims, either nobody is a victim, or the twelve step industry will boom to the moon. A productive bit of investigative journalism might check into financial disclosure statements at the UN GA, SC, and a few other places to see who holds a financial interest in 12 step recovery programs and victim aid channeling organizations ...

Speaking of not defaming other ethnic and racial groups, has the UN yet excoriated the President of Brazil for blaming the global financial mess on people with blond hair and blue eyes? I have neither blond hair, nor blue eyes, but I find it curious that some blatant racism is apparently approved of, and condoned, on the banks of the East River and in the home of the 2016 Olympics.

While I am at it, has anyone officially condemned Chaves of Venezuela at the UN for his attack on President Bush, words to the effect of W being the Devil? Defamation of Satan, an oppressed supernatural minority his own self, ought to be addressed forthwith.

Come on, UN, show a little sympathy for the Devil ...

WildCat · 21st October 2009, 09:37 AM

And bear in mind that merely being a non-Muslim and practicing your religion is as assault on Islam according to the fundies.

Arcade22 · 21st October 2009, 09:53 AM

Criticize Islam or Muslims = go to jail...that would be worse than it is in Sweden!

WildCat · 21st October 2009, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Criticize Islam or Muslims = go to jail...that would be worse than it is in Sweden!

Living in Sweden is worse than jail?

tyr_13 · 21st October 2009, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Living in Sweden is worse than jail?

Only if you're fat and geeky and Olaf keeps kicking snow in your face on the trails, showing off to the snow bunnies...

Arcade22 · 21st October 2009, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Living in Sweden is worse than jail?

Not yet, but give the politicians 20-30 years and we will be a third world country for sure.

Praktik · 21st October 2009, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

And bear in mind that merely being a non-Muslim and practicing your religion is as assault on Islam according to the fundies.

this trait is not exclusive to islamic fundies, its shared among fundies of all types.

Pardalis · 21st October 2009, 11:06 AM

And he got the Nobel Peace Prize for protecting the rights of an invisible imaginary creature over those of humans.

Darth Rotor · 21st October 2009, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

And he got the Nobel Peace Prize for protecting the rights of an invisible imaginary creature over those of humans.

Prospective new nickname: President Woobama.

I wonder if that will get any traction at the JREF forums.

DR

Brainster · 21st October 2009, 07:01 PM

Some of the examples are pretty chilling:

Quote:

In Poland, Catholic magazine Gosc Niedzielny was fined $11,000 for inciting "contempt, hostility and malice"by comparing the abortion of a woman to the medical experiments at Auschwitz.

The "blasphemy" cases include the prosecution of writers for calling Mohammed a "pedophile" because of his marriage to 6-year-old Aisha (which was consummated when she was 9). A far-right legislator in Austria, a publisher in India and a city councilman in Finland have been prosecuted for repeating this view of the historical record.

Well, hey, if she was 9 when it was consummated... it's still pedophilia in my book.

Learning Phase · 21st October 2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

this trait is not exclusive to islamic fundies, its shared among fundies of all types.

Quite true.

But most of the other types of fundies don't go for beheading. Sure, the Xtian fundies will yell and scream (and vote crazy people into office) but I've not heard of any beheadings for quite a while.

We did have a few burnings a couple of centuries back...

Edit: Missed quote

Dancing David · 22nd October 2009, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Prospective new nickname: President Woobama.

I wonder if that will get any traction at the JREF forums.

DR

Woobamanation?

WildCat · 22nd October 2009, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Praktik

this trait is not exclusive to islamic fundies, its shared among fundies of all types.

I'm not aware of any other fundie religions that have such a tight grip on political power and mix law so heavily with religion, do you?

Where's the fundie Christian equivalent of Saudi Arabia? Iran?

WildCat · 22nd October 2009, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by Learning Phase

Quite true.

But most of the other types of fundies don't go for beheading. Sure, the Xtian fundies will yell and scream (and vote crazy people into office) but I've not heard of any beheadings for quite a while.

We did have a few burnings a couple of centuries back...

Edit: Missed quote

Don't worry, soon the moral equivalency apologists will be here to declare not selling booze on Sunday or saying "god bless America" in a political speech the same thing morally as hanging homosexuals in public, or the public stoning of a woman who was raped.

Skeptic · 22nd October 2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

While attracting surprisingly little attention, the Obama administration supported the effort of largely Muslim nations in the U.N. Human Rights Council to recognize exceptions to free speech for any "negative racial and religious stereotyping."

You mean the Arab (and Muslim) world will have to stop with the massive Jew-demonizing done by its government-controlled media?

Skeptic · 22nd October 2009, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Praktik

this trait is not exclusive to islamic fundies, its shared among fundies of all types.

Yes, but last time I looked, Christian fundies do not send suicide bombers to blow themselves up among the infidels in Wal-Mart for shopping on Sunday. Nor are they particularly likely to stone women for being raped. Or teach the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" on state TV. Or send retarded children wrapped in explosives into crowded areas, to be blown up by remote control (a real-life recreation of The Gunner's Dream from Pink Floyd's The Final Cut). Or fly planes into buildings. Or pass death sentences on people for writing a book they dislike. Or...

...well, you get the point.

Darth Rotor · 22nd October 2009, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

You mean the Arab (and Muslim) world will have to stop with the massive Jew-demonizing done by its government-controlled media?

Sure, but that doesn't mean they'll stop screaming about the Zionists, since those aren't really followers of Judaism, the religion.

Or something like that.

WildCat · 22nd October 2009, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Or pass death sentences on people for writing a book they dislike.

So will the UK have to extradite Salman Rushdie to Iran or risk the wrath* of the UN?

*a sternly worded letter

INRM · 22nd October 2009, 01:52 PM

Free speech should not be restricted because it offends some people. If you start limiting free speech where does it end? I'm not talking about a person screaming fire in a crowded theater or advocating violence or inciting riots, here either.

Where does it end? Can the government eventually restrict-speech that offends the government? If that happens the first amendment is effectively useless.

INRM

NoZed Avenger · 22nd October 2009, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

So will the UK have to extradite Salman Rushdie to Iran or risk the wrath* of the UN?

*a sternly worded letter

Whoa, whoa, whoa, Mr. Loose Cannon. We don't just jump to the nuclear option (the sternly worded letter). First we need to appoint a committe to perform a feasability study to consider the costs of forming a committee to select the countries who can appoint represenatives who could fly to Bermuda for a week conference to supply suggested committee members to prepare a pre-draft talking points memo outlining the scope of any potential letters.

21st October 2009, 09:03 AM	#1
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8,793	USA Today Article: US Joins Effort to Restrict (Anti) Religious Speech Read the depressing details in an opinion piece from Professor Jonathan Turley: http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/...emy-laws-.html Quote: Perhaps in an effort to rehabilitate the United States’ image in the Muslim world, the Obama administration has joined a U.N. effort to restrict religious speech. * * * While attracting surprisingly little attention, the Obama administration supported the effort of largely Muslim nations in the U.N. Human Rights Council to recognize exceptions to free speech for any "negative racial and religious stereotyping." The exception was made as part of a resolution supporting free speech that passed this month, but it is the exception, not the rule that worries civil libertarians. Though the resolution was passed unanimously, European and developing countries made it clear that they remain at odds on the issue of protecting religions from criticism. It is viewed as a transparent bid to appeal to the "Muslim street" and our Arab allies, with the administration seeking greater coexistence through the curtailment of objectionable speech. Though it has no direct enforcement (and is weaker than earlier versions), it is still viewed as a victory for those who sought to juxtapose and balance the rights of speech and religion. While not of the "the sky is falling" variety of bad news, I think the decision is a bad one, trading mere hope for improved attitudes in the short term for long term and probable problems down the road.
	__________________ There is no substitute for good manners. Except fast reflexes.

21st October 2009, 09:16 AM	#2
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,806	Originally Posted by NoZed Avenger Read the depressing details in an opinion piece from Professor Jonathan Turley: http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/...emy-laws-.html While not of the "the sky is falling" variety of bad news, I think the decision is a bad one, trading mere hope for improved attitudes in the short term for long term and probable problems down the road. If various races and ethnic groups get special victim status, then a winning strategy appears to be, among various religious groups, a quick leap upon that band wagon. When we are all victims, either nobody is a victim, or the twelve step industry will boom to the moon. A productive bit of investigative journalism might check into financial disclosure statements at the UN GA, SC, and a few other places to see who holds a financial interest in 12 step recovery programs and victim aid channeling organizations ... Speaking of not defaming other ethnic and racial groups, has the UN yet excoriated the President of Brazil for blaming the global financial mess on people with blond hair and blue eyes? I have neither blond hair, nor blue eyes, but I find it curious that some blatant racism is apparently approved of, and condoned, on the banks of the East River and in the home of the 2016 Olympics. While I am at it, has anyone officially condemned Chaves of Venezuela at the UN for his attack on President Bush, words to the effect of W being the Devil? Defamation of Satan, an oppressed supernatural minority his own self, ought to be addressed forthwith. Come on, UN, show a little sympathy for the Devil ...
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon

21st October 2009, 09:37 AM	#3
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 24,979	And bear in mind that merely being a non-Muslim and practicing your religion is as assault on Islam according to the fundies.
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

21st October 2009, 09:53 AM	#4
Arcade22 Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Västerbotten, Sweden Posts: 542	Criticize Islam or Muslims = go to jail...that would be worse than it is in Sweden!
	__________________ Pro gloria et patria Ten subway stops from downtown Stockholm is "little Mogadishu" a drab suburb of the Swedish capital where radical Islamists are said to be recruiting the sons of Somali immigrants for jihad in the Horn of Africa.

21st October 2009, 09:59 AM	#5
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 24,979	Originally Posted by Arcade22 Criticize Islam or Muslims = go to jail...that would be worse than it is in Sweden! Living in Sweden is worse than jail?
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

21st October 2009, 10:01 AM	#6
tyr_13 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,019	Originally Posted by WildCat Living in Sweden is worse than jail? Only if you're fat and geeky and Olaf keeps kicking snow in your face on the trails, showing off to the snow bunnies...
tyr_13 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,019	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Look at the puppy...the puppy is good.

21st October 2009, 10:26 AM	#7
Arcade22 Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Västerbotten, Sweden Posts: 542	Originally Posted by WildCat Living in Sweden is worse than jail? Not yet, but give the politicians 20-30 years and we will be a third world country for sure.
	__________________ Pro gloria et patria Ten subway stops from downtown Stockholm is "little Mogadishu" a drab suburb of the Swedish capital where radical Islamists are said to be recruiting the sons of Somali immigrants for jihad in the Horn of Africa.

21st October 2009, 10:50 AM	#8
Praktik Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,804	Originally Posted by WildCat And bear in mind that merely being a non-Muslim and practicing your religion is as assault on Islam according to the fundies. this trait is not exclusive to islamic fundies, its shared among fundies of all types.
Praktik Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,804	__________________ "It must be very strange to be President Bush. A man of extraordinary vision and brilliance approaching to genius, he can't get anyone to notice. He is like a great painter or musician who is ahead of his time, and who unveils one masterpiece after another to a reception that, when not bored, is hostile." - John Hinderaker, Powerline

21st October 2009, 11:06 AM	#9
Pardalis Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 19,186	And he got the Nobel Peace Prize for protecting the rights of an invisible imaginary creature over those of humans.
	__________________ "It's much better to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has got it wrong because it doesn't share your point of view." aggle-rithm "In reality, the most astonishingly incredible coincidence imaginable would be the complete absence of all coincidences." John Allen Paulos

21st October 2009, 11:30 AM	#10
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,806	Originally Posted by Pardalis And he got the Nobel Peace Prize for protecting the rights of an invisible imaginary creature over those of humans. Prospective new nickname: President Woobama. I wonder if that will get any traction at the JREF forums. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon

21st October 2009, 07:01 PM	#11
Brainster Philosopher Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,063	Some of the examples are pretty chilling: Quote: In Poland, Catholic magazine Gosc Niedzielny was fined $11,000 for inciting "contempt, hostility and malice"by comparing the abortion of a woman to the medical experiments at Auschwitz. The "blasphemy" cases include the prosecution of writers for calling Mohammed a "pedophile" because of his marriage to 6-year-old Aisha (which was consummated when she was 9). A far-right legislator in Austria, a publisher in India and a city councilman in Finland have been prosecuted for repeating this view of the historical record. Well, hey, if she was 9 when it was consummated... it's still pedophilia in my book.
Brainster Philosopher Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,063	__________________ 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Check out my (Republican-oriented) Political Blog. Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

21st October 2009, 08:49 PM	#12
Learning Phase Scholar Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 83	Quote: this trait is not exclusive to islamic fundies, its shared among fundies of all types. Quite true. But most of the other types of fundies don't go for beheading. Sure, the Xtian fundies will yell and scream (and vote crazy people into office) but I've not heard of any beheadings for quite a while. We did have a few burnings a couple of centuries back... Edit: Missed quote
Learning Phase Scholar Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 83	__________________ "The United States has become a place where entertainers and professional athletes are mistaken for people of importance." Robert A. Heinlein Last edited by Learning Phase; 21st October 2009 at 08:50 PM.

22nd October 2009, 06:15 AM	#13
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 18,357	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Prospective new nickname: President Woobama. I wonder if that will get any traction at the JREF forums. DR Woobamanation?
	__________________ Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blast on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us.- Walt Kelly wow Mr.Philospher, you need some custard poured over your head mayhaps? -kittynh "Exhibit 1338A as to why the Politics forum is "where rational thought goes to die."-Carlitos

22nd October 2009, 06:55 AM	#14
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 24,979	Originally Posted by Praktik this trait is not exclusive to islamic fundies, its shared among fundies of all types. I'm not aware of any other fundie religions that have such a tight grip on political power and mix law so heavily with religion, do you? Where's the fundie Christian equivalent of Saudi Arabia? Iran?
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

22nd October 2009, 06:59 AM	#15
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 24,979	Originally Posted by Learning Phase Quite true. But most of the other types of fundies don't go for beheading. Sure, the Xtian fundies will yell and scream (and vote crazy people into office) but I've not heard of any beheadings for quite a while. We did have a few burnings a couple of centuries back... Edit: Missed quote Don't worry, soon the moral equivalency apologists will be here to declare not selling booze on Sunday or saying "god bless America" in a political speech the same thing morally as hanging homosexuals in public, or the public stoning of a woman who was raped.
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

22nd October 2009, 08:03 AM	#16
Skeptic Sum, ergo cogito Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 13,329	Quote: While attracting surprisingly little attention, the Obama administration supported the effort of largely Muslim nations in the U.N. Human Rights Council to recognize exceptions to free speech for any "negative racial and religious stereotyping." You mean the Arab (and Muslim) world will have to stop with the massive Jew-demonizing done by its government-controlled media?
	__________________ CNN, Fox, MSNBC are all terrible, all do the exact same thing: take news wire reports, add a bunch of unnecessary opinion, and then re-brand it as "infotainment" as if this were some sort of useful service. It is akin to paying me to read a newspaper to you, while interrupting frequently with my own opinion. -- Zaphod2016

22nd October 2009, 08:08 AM	#17
Skeptic Sum, ergo cogito Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 13,329	Originally Posted by Praktik this trait is not exclusive to islamic fundies, its shared among fundies of all types. Yes, but last time I looked, Christian fundies do not send suicide bombers to blow themselves up among the infidels in Wal-Mart for shopping on Sunday. Nor are they particularly likely to stone women for being raped. Or teach the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" on state TV. Or send retarded children wrapped in explosives into crowded areas, to be blown up by remote control (a real-life recreation of The Gunner's Dream from Pink Floyd's The Final Cut). Or fly planes into buildings. Or pass death sentences on people for writing a book they dislike. Or... ...well, you get the point.
	__________________ CNN, Fox, MSNBC are all terrible, all do the exact same thing: take news wire reports, add a bunch of unnecessary opinion, and then re-brand it as "infotainment" as if this were some sort of useful service. It is akin to paying me to read a newspaper to you, while interrupting frequently with my own opinion. -- Zaphod2016

22nd October 2009, 08:09 AM	#18
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,806	Originally Posted by Skeptic You mean the Arab (and Muslim) world will have to stop with the massive Jew-demonizing done by its government-controlled media? Sure, but that doesn't mean they'll stop screaming about the Zionists, since those aren't really followers of Judaism, the religion. Or something like that.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon

22nd October 2009, 08:29 AM	#19
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 24,979	Originally Posted by Skeptic Or pass death sentences on people for writing a book they dislike. So will the UK have to extradite Salman Rushdie to Iran or risk the wrath* of the UN? *a sternly worded letter
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

22nd October 2009, 01:52 PM	#20
INRM Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,577	Free speech should not be restricted because it offends some people. If you start limiting free speech where does it end? I'm not talking about a person screaming fire in a crowded theater or advocating violence or inciting riots, here either. Where does it end? Can the government eventually restrict-speech that offends the government? If that happens the first amendment is effectively useless. INRM
INRM Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,577

22nd October 2009, 03:45 PM	#21
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8,793	Originally Posted by WildCat So will the UK have to extradite Salman Rushdie to Iran or risk the wrath* of the UN? *a sternly worded letter Whoa, whoa, whoa, Mr. Loose Cannon. We don't just jump to the nuclear option (the sternly worded letter). First we need to appoint a committe to perform a feasability study to consider the costs of forming a committee to select the countries who can appoint represenatives who could fly to Bermuda for a week conference to supply suggested committee members to prepare a pre-draft talking points memo outlining the scope of any potential letters.
	__________________ There is no substitute for good manners. Except fast reflexes.