Should I get vaccinated? - Page 5

Eos of the Eons · 28th October 2009, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Guy

Well, to pick a nit, only 25 may have died from complications resulting from the vaccine. The first one died of the actual virus.

That being said, and while I use Wikipedia alot, myself, it may not be as accurate as all that.

From the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol12no01/05-1007.htm

The cases of GBS could be increased, but it appears to me that it might not be as bad as may have been reported in the media, though I will defer to those on the forum who are in the medical field.

From the same article:

Thank you. And, as I said before, far far far more cases of GBS and death are caused by the actual flu. In fact, the flu vaccine has a preventative effect against GBS---meaning that if you get the vaccine you have a much less chance of getting GBS than if you get the actual flu.
Also:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19025491

Quote:

CONCLUSIONS: Influenza viruses are infrequent triggering agents of GBS but may play a significant role during major influenza outbreaks. AlsoInfluenza-related GBS displays specific features and is not associated with antiganglioside antibody response, which suggests the presence of underlying immune mechanisms.

Which, to me, means that GBS (since it is triggered by all kinds of things) is inevitable to those at risk. If you're not at risk, then you won't get it whether you get the vaccine or the flu. If you are at risk, you're fracced either way, but moreso with the flu.

BenBurch · 28th October 2009, 12:35 PM

I'm still not dead.

Eos of the Eons · 28th October 2009, 12:45 PM

No way

BenBurch · 28th October 2009, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons

No way

WAY.

But I really do want to eat your BRAYNEZ.

Eos of the Eons · 28th October 2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

WAY.

But I really do want to eat your BRAYNEZ.

Ohhhhh, you are all ready for Halloween!!!

skeptigirl · 28th October 2009, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Phrost

Strawman. Try harder next time.

I don't have a clue what you are on about. I was replying to a statement about trusting government advice. My reply was why would you need to? Flu vaccination recommendations are made by medical experts, not the 'government', even though the CDC is a governmental body.

Skeptic Guy · 28th October 2009, 03:25 PM

I had a flu vaccination, not H1N1, and I'm still here...though all this talk of brainz has me feeling peckish.

Phrost · 29th October 2009, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

I'm still not dead.

Me either, and I got the vaccine while on duty with the National Guard.

But I did feel like crap instantly, and powered through it with massive amounts of caffeine. Apparently the culture used in the nose squirt method is a bit stronger than the one in the shot.

If I happen to start violently spazzing out I'll report in, but it's just as likely to be the result of getting recreationally punched in the head as it is the vaccine.

The Drain · 29th October 2009, 09:58 AM

I've just had my H1N1 vaccination. (Thank you Northern Ireland health service).

Definitely no odd side effects.

Now for something to eat. Hmmm, brains...

Phrost · 29th October 2009, 10:06 AM

It'd be wonderfully ironic if the people who didn't get the vaccine were the ones to catch the zombie virus, especially considering a large chunk of them are likely to be gun owners, while the "trust the government implicitly" types tend to overlap with the pro-gun circle control on a venn diagram.

Zombies with guns vs. Hippies with sports equipment and pointy sticks* and would be an appropriate end for humanity.

*Outlawed in the UK: you limeys are doubly screwed.

The Drain · 29th October 2009, 10:40 AM

Phrost, you're right about no pointy sticks - but here in NI we have plenty of baseball bats (even though nobody plays baseball). Let's just say that it's our unique take on democracy...

BenBurch · 29th October 2009, 11:28 AM

Yeah, the nose squirt is alive. The IM vaccine is dead. Nose squirt provides more certain protection, but I don't qualify for it.

skeptigirl · 29th October 2009, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

....Nose squirt provides more certain protection, ....

Since we don't yet have the data to draw this conclusion, I was wondering how you were drawing it?

Phrost · 29th October 2009, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Yeah, the nose squirt is alive. The IM vaccine is dead. Nose squirt provides more certain protection, but I don't qualify for it.

Join the National Guard, it's free!

(Use Referral Code "SGT Neal Fletcher" and you'll get $50 cash back on your enlistment*).

*Out of the $2000 I get for suckering you into signing up, $7500 if you get successfully commissioned as an officer.

BenBurch · 29th October 2009, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

Since we don't yet have the data to draw this conclusion, I was wondering how you were drawing it?

What the flyer said that was given out at the vaccination clinic.

BenBurch · 29th October 2009, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Phrost

Join the National Guard, it's free!

(Use Referral Code "SGT Neal Fletcher" and you'll get $50 cash back on your enlistment*).

*Out of the $2000 I get for suckering you into signing up, $7500 if you get successfully commissioned as an officer.

I am *so* 4F. But, thanks!

JoeTheJuggler · 29th October 2009, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

What the flyer said that was given out at the vaccination clinic.

I don't see that stated on the package insert. (Though I may have missed it.)

I do know that in us older folks, it's not considered effective:

Quote:

Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal is not approved for use in individuals 50-64 years of age. In Study AV009, effectiveness of FluMist was not demonstrated in individuals 50-64 years of age (n=641). Solicited adverse events were similar in type and frequency to those reported in younger adults.

The IM shot package insert doesn't say that, so I presume that means at least for people aged 50-64 the mist is less effective than the shot.

skeptigirl · 29th October 2009, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

What the flyer said that was given out at the vaccination clinic.

What flyer was that? The vaccine information statements which are required by law to be given out with these vaccines in the US say no such thing.

skeptigirl · 29th October 2009, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

I don't see that stated on the package insert. (Though I may have missed it.)

I do know that in us older folks, it's not considered effective:

The IM shot package insert doesn't say that, so I presume that means at least for people aged 50-64 the mist is less effective than the shot.

That would be correct. For that reason the Mist is not being given to people 50 and over.

In 2006, a study of FluMist (different strains in the vaccine) showed better immunity for children and less protection for adults than with the killed vaccine. That study only applies to that year.

We do not have data yet on this year's H1N1 FluMist vs the killed vaccine. We only have antibody production tests and the two vaccines are fairly equal in those tests.

devnull · 29th October 2009, 11:50 PM

Thimerosal contains mercury!

and water contains dangerous and explosive hydrogen gas!!!! and also has oxygen to help the hydrogen burn!

MY GOD, WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!1111!!!11!ONE!!!!ELEVENTEEN!11!!!!

ps. I got the jab last week, no side effects, rest of family will get it as soon as I can organise a time.

Safe-Keeper · 30th October 2009, 06:23 AM

Got a friend on Facebook who says she's got doctors in her family and tells me the vaccination hasn't been tested much and that the ones receiving it are guinea pigs, and that she knows a person who'll soon be in a wheelchair due to late side-effects of a vaccination.

Ugh.

BenBurch · 30th October 2009, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

What flyer was that? The vaccine information statements which are required by law to be given out with these vaccines in the US say no such thing.

The one they handed to us in line.

Eddie Dane · 31st October 2009, 05:00 PM

I've taken the liberty of running an article from Holland's most popular newspaper though translate. Have a look at the comments.

This is really out of control. An estimated 5 percent of commenters are not anti-vaxxers.

My god, I am angered by this crap.

BenBurch · 31st October 2009, 05:13 PM

BTW, I am still alive.

Stout · 31st October 2009, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

BTW, I am still alive.

Still ? Damn, i'm going to have to call my buddies in the NWO and tell 'em they're not doing it right

So, I'm pretty new to this whole anti-vax thing. I've been through CTs, thimersol, aluminium, squalene...
This thing seems huge to me. Is this just because of H1N1 or has it always been this "popular" ?
I just read up on Tim ( spin doctor to Hulda Clark ) Bolen and I'm about to start on a guy called Gary Null. It seems like every day there's new "sources" to run down.

The Drain · 31st October 2009, 06:19 PM

Everything still okay following my swine flu vaccine on Thursday, apart from stiff shoulder and a peculiar urge to drink fresh blood.

Safe-Keeper · 31st October 2009, 07:26 PM

Stout: anti-vaxxers have been around for years, but don't appear to have gotten significant air time until now that we're doing large-scale pandemic vaccinations.

Stout · 31st October 2009, 07:40 PM

Cheers Safe-Keeper, I figured it was being ramped up.

Yikes, I've got some guy on another forum going on about some guy named Anthony Morris and I just got back from a site called whale.to.

My brain is melted

But it's Halloween and I've got to gear up and go do a fire show up at the local bonfire.

Yay.

JoeTheJuggler · 31st October 2009, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Stout: anti-vaxxers have been around for years, but don't appear to have gotten significant air time until now that we're doing large-scale pandemic vaccinations.

I don't think that's true. They got a lot of air-time (and undo credence) when they were making the claims that vaccinations cause autism.

Compared to that, I think they've gotten a lot less air time during this flu season. The news media seems to be presenting pretty good information wrt the H1N1 vaccine and not giving a forum to the anti-vaxxers. Most of the news stories I read quote the CDC and WHO and even local health departments and hospital officials rather than Jenny McCarthy.

skeptigirl · 31st October 2009, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

BTW, I am still alive.

Me too and so is my son. I had the H1N1 shot and he had the H1N1 FluMist and we both had the mercury laced seasonal flu vaccine.

Eos of the Eons · 31st October 2009, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Stout

Cheers Safe-Keeper, I figured it was being ramped up.

Yikes, I've got some guy on another forum going on about some guy named Anthony Morris and I just got back from a site called whale.to.

My brain is melted

But it's Halloween and I've got to gear up and go do a fire show up at the local bonfire.

Yay.

You new at this? I can start a list.

AndrewWakefield
Weil
Kirby
Mary Tocco (or any chiropractor, homeopath or ND)
Veira Scheibner
Meryl Dorey and naturalnews.com
Archie Kalokerinos
Harris Coulter
Jay Gordon
Bernard Rimland
Harold E. Buttram
Wolfgang Wodarg
Robert Kennedy
whale.to
Mercola
Boyd Haley
Dettman
Eva Snead
Raymond Obomsawin
Michael Odent
Guylaine Lanctot
Susan DeSimone
Tim Bolen
Ted Koren
Lorraine Day
Sherri Tenpenny
Jenny McCarthy and Generation Rescue - J.B. Handley
Bill Maher

Just to name a very few notorious ones!

http://www.members.shaw.ca/eostory/VaccineQuotes.html

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2211

Yeggster · 31st October 2009, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Without Rights

When you add mercury with other ingredients in thimerosal it doesn't magically make mercury safe.

The Mercury content is a red herring .. your body is ejected with more Mercury when you eat a small can of tuna ... mercury is in every breath you take as well.

Dr. Imago · 31st October 2009, 10:41 PM

Barring the copious side-chatter on this thread (the majority of which, I admit, I didn't read), I'm just going to say one thing:

THE HORSE IS OUT OF THE BARN.

Take that however you want. It's not advice. Just a statement.

On a separate note, suffice it to say that I have been definitively exposed to H1N1 at least three (known) times, including once during an endotracheal intubation where the patient (an extremely elderly gentleman with multiple co-morbid conditions, including congestive heart failure) breathed directly into my unprotected face from less than a foot away as I was watching his vocal cords as I was putting the endotracheal tube in. I never got the flu. Again, take that however you want (i.e., maybe I'm just "special").

~Dr. Imago

Dr. Imago · 31st October 2009, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Imago

Barring the copious side-chatter on this thread (the majority of which, I admit, I didn't read), I'm just going to say one thing:

THE HORSE IS OUT OF THE BARN.

Take that however you want. It's not advice. Just a statement.

On a separate note, suffice it to say that I have been definitively exposed to H1N1 at least three (known) times, including once during an endotracheal intubation where the patient (an extremely elderly gentleman with multiple co-morbid conditions, including congestive heart failure) breathed directly into my unprotected face from less than a foot away as I was watching his vocal cords as I was putting the endotracheal tube in. I never got the flu. Again, take that however you want (i.e., maybe I'm just "special").

~Dr. Imago

Oh, and I haven't gotten the vaccine. I did take Tamiflu for five days, though, after the guy who coded and that I intubated breathed all over me. The infectious disease specialist gave it to us.

~Dr. Imago

skeptigirl · 1st November 2009, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Imago

Barring the copious side-chatter on this thread (the majority of which, I admit, I didn't read), I'm just going to say one thing:

THE HORSE IS OUT OF THE BARN.

Take that however you want. It's not advice. Just a statement.

On a separate note, suffice it to say that I have been definitively exposed to H1N1 at least three (known) times, including once during an endotracheal intubation where the patient (an extremely elderly gentleman with multiple co-morbid conditions, including congestive heart failure) breathed directly into my unprotected face from less than a foot away as I was watching his vocal cords as I was putting the endotracheal tube in. I never got the flu. Again, take that however you want (i.e., maybe I'm just "special").

~Dr. Imago

You may just be e'special'ly old.

Brian-M · 1st November 2009, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Stout

This thing seems huge to me. Is this just because of H1N1 or has it always been this "popular" ?

It's been this "popular" in England for a long time, centered around the MMR vaccine, but pretty much ignored by the rest of the world until now.

skeptigirl · 1st November 2009, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Imago

Oh, and I haven't gotten the vaccine. I did take Tamiflu for five days, though, after the guy who coded and that I intubated breathed all over me. The infectious disease specialist gave it to us.

~Dr. Imago

Well let's not attribute your lack of infection to prophylaxis. That couldn't have possibly had any effect.

What do you mean by horse out of the barn?

BenBurch · 1st November 2009, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

Well let's not attribute your lack of infection to prophylaxis. That couldn't have possibly had any effect.

What do you mean by horse out of the barn?

I assume he means the new case rate is surging and all the vaccinations in the world aren't going to keep this from being a very, very bad thing - too late for herd immunity.

Stout · 1st November 2009, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Compared to that, I think they've gotten a lot less air time during this flu season. The news media seems to be presenting pretty good information wrt the H1N1 vaccine and not giving a forum to the anti-vaxxers. Most of the news stories I read quote the CDC and WHO and even local health departments and hospital officials rather than Jenny McCarthy.

I've noticed that, and meatspace, in my recent experience, doesn't seem too worked up about the issue even when I've raised it in a "conspiratorial" manner just to see who I could get to bite.

This appears to be fueling the CTers, calling us things like "dupes of the MSM" etc.

Science appears to be winning

Stout · 1st November 2009, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons

You new at this? I can start a list.

< snip>

Thanks for that, I gotten about five on that list so far and recovered from the damage Whale.to did to my brain last night. I've already quoted Scopie's law this morning. FTW

Looks like I haven't even scratched the surface yet..cheers.

28th October 2009, 12:33 PM	#161
Eos of the Eons Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Alberta Posts: 12,752	Originally Posted by Skeptic Guy Well, to pick a nit, only 25 may have died from complications resulting from the vaccine. The first one died of the actual virus. That being said, and while I use Wikipedia alot, myself, it may not be as accurate as all that. From the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol12no01/05-1007.htm The cases of GBS could be increased, but it appears to me that it might not be as bad as may have been reported in the media, though I will defer to those on the forum who are in the medical field. From the same article: Thank you. And, as I said before, far far far more cases of GBS and death are caused by the actual flu. In fact, the flu vaccine has a preventative effect against GBS---meaning that if you get the vaccine you have a much less chance of getting GBS than if you get the actual flu. Also: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19025491 Quote: CONCLUSIONS: Influenza viruses are infrequent triggering agents of GBS but may play a significant role during major influenza outbreaks. AlsoInfluenza-related GBS displays specific features and is not associated with antiganglioside antibody response, which suggests the presence of underlying immune mechanisms. Which, to me, means that GBS (since it is triggered by all kinds of things) is inevitable to those at risk. If you're not at risk, then you won't get it whether you get the vaccine or the flu. If you are at risk, you're fracced either way, but moreso with the flu.
	__________________ Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!

28th October 2009, 12:35 PM	#162
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 12,647	I'm still not dead.
	__________________ A Liberal Dose of Talk Dog is my co-pilot.

28th October 2009, 12:45 PM	#163
Eos of the Eons Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Alberta Posts: 12,752	No way
	__________________ Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!

28th October 2009, 12:53 PM	#164
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 12,647	Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons No way WAY. But I really do want to eat your BRAYNEZ.
	__________________ A Liberal Dose of Talk Dog is my co-pilot.

28th October 2009, 01:21 PM	#165
Eos of the Eons Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Alberta Posts: 12,752	Originally Posted by BenBurch WAY. But I really do want to eat your BRAYNEZ. Ohhhhh, you are all ready for Halloween!!!
	__________________ Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!

28th October 2009, 02:17 PM	#166
skeptigirl Web Surfer Girl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: headed back to that dark dark house in the dark dark woods Posts: 17,997	Originally Posted by Phrost Strawman. Try harder next time. I don't have a clue what you are on about. I was replying to a statement about trusting government advice. My reply was why would you need to? Flu vaccination recommendations are made by medical experts, not the 'government', even though the CDC is a governmental body.
	__________________ Sk'p' 'el (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Republic Party, in response.) (Tired of the current Republican talking point of naming everything after Pelosi, Reid &/or Obama, I've decided to start adding Republican names to their fault fiascos.) Last edited by skeptigirl; 28th October 2009 at 02:18 PM.*

28th October 2009, 03:25 PM	#167
Skeptic Guy Raccoon Death Squad Leader Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Southeast of Disorder Posts: 6,222	I had a flu vaccination, not H1N1, and I'm still here...though all this talk of brainz has me feeling peckish.
	__________________ "Our history is in part a battle to the death of inadequate myths" - Carl Sagan Even Mother Teresa^WP doubted.

29th October 2009, 09:42 AM	#168
Phrost The Fighting Skeptic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Cowtown, Missouri Posts: 1,395	Originally Posted by BenBurch I'm still not dead. Me either, and I got the vaccine while on duty with the National Guard. But I did feel like crap instantly, and powered through it with massive amounts of caffeine. Apparently the culture used in the nose squirt method is a bit stronger than the one in the shot. If I happen to start violently spazzing out I'll report in, but it's just as likely to be the result of getting recreationally punched in the head as it is the vaccine.
	__________________ "I never intend for my posts to read like I'm aggressive or confrontational, but I am so they do." Executive Director: Bullshido.net Fighting BS in the Martial Arts Amateur No-Holds-Barred/MMA Fighter, Skeptic, Bright. www.Phrost.com

29th October 2009, 09:58 AM	#169
The Drain Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Atlantic; up there in the top right corner Posts: 1,328	I've just had my H1N1 vaccination. (Thank you Northern Ireland health service). Definitely no odd side effects. Now for something to eat. Hmmm, brains...
	__________________ I'm a Dad. I know everything.

29th October 2009, 10:06 AM	#170
Phrost The Fighting Skeptic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Cowtown, Missouri Posts: 1,395	It'd be wonderfully ironic if the people who didn't get the vaccine were the ones to catch the zombie virus, especially considering a large chunk of them are likely to be gun owners, while the "trust the government implicitly" types tend to overlap with the pro-gun circle control on a venn diagram. Zombies with guns vs. Hippies with sports equipment and pointy sticks* and would be an appropriate end for humanity. *Outlawed in the UK: you limeys are doubly screwed.
	__________________ "I never intend for my posts to read like I'm aggressive or confrontational, but I am so they do." Executive Director: Bullshido.net Fighting BS in the Martial Arts Amateur No-Holds-Barred/MMA Fighter, Skeptic, Bright. www.Phrost.com

29th October 2009, 10:40 AM	#171
The Drain Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Atlantic; up there in the top right corner Posts: 1,328	Phrost, you're right about no pointy sticks - but here in NI we have plenty of baseball bats (even though nobody plays baseball). Let's just say that it's our unique take on democracy...
	__________________ I'm a Dad. I know everything.

29th October 2009, 11:28 AM	#172
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 12,647	Yeah, the nose squirt is alive. The IM vaccine is dead. Nose squirt provides more certain protection, but I don't qualify for it.
	__________________ A Liberal Dose of Talk Dog is my co-pilot.

29th October 2009, 11:58 AM	#173
skeptigirl Web Surfer Girl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: headed back to that dark dark house in the dark dark woods Posts: 17,997	Originally Posted by BenBurch ....Nose squirt provides more certain protection, .... Since we don't yet have the data to draw this conclusion, I was wondering how you were drawing it?
	__________________ Sk'p' 'el (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Republic Party, in response.) (*Tired of the current Republican talking point of naming everything after Pelosi, Reid &/or Obama, I've decided to start adding Republican names to their fault fiascos.)

29th October 2009, 12:29 PM	#174
Phrost The Fighting Skeptic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Cowtown, Missouri Posts: 1,395	Originally Posted by BenBurch Yeah, the nose squirt is alive. The IM vaccine is dead. Nose squirt provides more certain protection, but I don't qualify for it. Join the National Guard, it's free! (Use Referral Code "SGT Neal Fletcher" and you'll get $50 cash back on your enlistment). Out of the $2000 I get for suckering you into signing up, $7500 if you get successfully commissioned as an officer.
	__________________ "I never intend for my posts to read like I'm aggressive or confrontational, but I am so they do." Executive Director: Bullshido.net Fighting BS in the Martial Arts Amateur No-Holds-Barred/MMA Fighter, Skeptic, Bright. www.Phrost.com

29th October 2009, 02:57 PM	#175
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 12,647	Originally Posted by skeptigirl Since we don't yet have the data to draw this conclusion, I was wondering how you were drawing it? What the flyer said that was given out at the vaccination clinic.
	__________________ A Liberal Dose of Talk Dog is my co-pilot.

29th October 2009, 02:58 PM	#176
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 12,647	Originally Posted by Phrost Join the National Guard, it's free! (Use Referral Code "SGT Neal Fletcher" and you'll get $50 cash back on your enlistment). Out of the $2000 I get for suckering you into signing up, $7500 if you get successfully commissioned as an officer. I am so 4F. But, thanks!
	__________________ A Liberal Dose of Talk Dog is my co-pilot.

29th October 2009, 03:29 PM	#177
JoeTheJuggler Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 9,568	Originally Posted by BenBurch What the flyer said that was given out at the vaccination clinic. I don't see that stated on the package insert. (Though I may have missed it.) I do know that in us older folks, it's not considered effective: Quote: Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal is not approved for use in individuals 50-64 years of age. In Study AV009, effectiveness of FluMist was not demonstrated in individuals 50-64 years of age (n=641). Solicited adverse events were similar in type and frequency to those reported in younger adults. The IM shot package insert doesn't say that, so I presume that means at least for people aged 50-64 the mist is less effective than the shot.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

29th October 2009, 10:27 PM	#178
skeptigirl Web Surfer Girl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: headed back to that dark dark house in the dark dark woods Posts: 17,997	Originally Posted by BenBurch What the flyer said that was given out at the vaccination clinic. What flyer was that? The vaccine information statements which are required by law to be given out with these vaccines in the US say no such thing.
	__________________ Sk'p' 'el (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Republic Party, in response.) (*Tired of the current Republican talking point of naming everything after Pelosi, Reid &/or Obama, I've decided to start adding Republican names to their fault fiascos.)

29th October 2009, 10:30 PM	#179
skeptigirl Web Surfer Girl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: headed back to that dark dark house in the dark dark woods Posts: 17,997	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler I don't see that stated on the package insert. (Though I may have missed it.) I do know that in us older folks, it's not considered effective: The IM shot package insert doesn't say that, so I presume that means at least for people aged 50-64 the mist is less effective than the shot. That would be correct. For that reason the Mist is not being given to people 50 and over. In 2006, a study of FluMist (different strains in the vaccine) showed better immunity for children and less protection for adults than with the killed vaccine. That study only applies to that year. We do not have data yet on this year's H1N1 FluMist vs the killed vaccine. We only have antibody production tests and the two vaccines are fairly equal in those tests.
	__________________ Sk'p' 'el (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Republic Party, in response.) (*Tired of the current Republican talking point of naming everything after Pelosi, Reid &/or Obama, I've decided to start adding Republican names to their fault fiascos.)

29th October 2009, 11:50 PM	#180
devnull Muse Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 929	Thimerosal contains mercury! and water contains dangerous and explosive hydrogen gas!!!! and also has oxygen to help the hydrogen burn! MY GOD, WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!1111!!!11!ONE!!!!ELEVENTEEN!11!!!! ps. I got the jab last week, no side effects, rest of family will get it as soon as I can organise a time.
	__________________ (13:36:54) Becket: no conspiracy, its more a group seeking to overthrow America from within

30th October 2009, 06:23 AM	#181
Safe-Keeper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The House on the Hill Posts: 4,101	Got a friend on Facebook who says she's got doctors in her family and tells me the vaccination hasn't been tested much and that the ones receiving it are guinea pigs, and that she knows a person who'll soon be in a wheelchair due to late side-effects of a vaccination. Ugh.
	__________________ For the players of the Halloween game: the game map can be found here, up-to-date character and game data here, and the original thread, with rules, here.

30th October 2009, 06:27 AM	#182
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 12,647	Originally Posted by skeptigirl What flyer was that? The vaccine information statements which are required by law to be given out with these vaccines in the US say no such thing. The one they handed to us in line.
	__________________ A Liberal Dose of Talk Dog is my co-pilot.

31st October 2009, 05:00 PM	#183
Eddie Dane Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,046	I've taken the liberty of running an article from Holland's most popular newspaper though translate. Have a look at the comments. This is really out of control. An estimated 5 percent of commenters are not anti-vaxxers. My god, I am angered by this crap.

31st October 2009, 05:13 PM	#184
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 12,647	BTW, I am still alive.
	__________________ A Liberal Dose of Talk Dog is my co-pilot.

31st October 2009, 06:14 PM	#185
Stout Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 732	Originally Posted by BenBurch BTW, I am still alive. Still ? Damn, i'm going to have to call my buddies in the NWO and tell 'em they're not doing it right So, I'm pretty new to this whole anti-vax thing. I've been through CTs, thimersol, aluminium, squalene... This thing seems huge to me. Is this just because of H1N1 or has it always been this "popular" ? I just read up on Tim ( spin doctor to Hulda Clark ) Bolen and I'm about to start on a guy called Gary Null. It seems like every day there's new "sources" to run down.

31st October 2009, 06:19 PM	#186
The Drain Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Atlantic; up there in the top right corner Posts: 1,328	Everything still okay following my swine flu vaccine on Thursday, apart from stiff shoulder and a peculiar urge to drink fresh blood.
	__________________ I'm a Dad. I know everything.

31st October 2009, 07:26 PM	#187
Safe-Keeper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The House on the Hill Posts: 4,101	Stout: anti-vaxxers have been around for years, but don't appear to have gotten significant air time until now that we're doing large-scale pandemic vaccinations.
	__________________ For the players of the Halloween game: the game map can be found here, up-to-date character and game data here, and the original thread, with rules, here.

31st October 2009, 07:40 PM	#188
Stout Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 732	Cheers Safe-Keeper, I figured it was being ramped up. Yikes, I've got some guy on another forum going on about some guy named Anthony Morris and I just got back from a site called whale.to. My brain is melted But it's Halloween and I've got to gear up and go do a fire show up at the local bonfire. Yay.

31st October 2009, 08:02 PM	#189
JoeTheJuggler Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 9,568	Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper Stout: anti-vaxxers have been around for years, but don't appear to have gotten significant air time until now that we're doing large-scale pandemic vaccinations. I don't think that's true. They got a lot of air-time (and undo credence) when they were making the claims that vaccinations cause autism. Compared to that, I think they've gotten a lot less air time during this flu season. The news media seems to be presenting pretty good information wrt the H1N1 vaccine and not giving a forum to the anti-vaxxers. Most of the news stories I read quote the CDC and WHO and even local health departments and hospital officials rather than Jenny McCarthy.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

31st October 2009, 08:21 PM	#190
skeptigirl Web Surfer Girl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: headed back to that dark dark house in the dark dark woods Posts: 17,997	Originally Posted by BenBurch BTW, I am still alive. Me too and so is my son. I had the H1N1 shot and he had the H1N1 FluMist and we both had the mercury laced seasonal flu vaccine.
	__________________ Sk'p' 'el (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Republic Party, in response.) (*Tired of the current Republican talking point of naming everything after Pelosi, Reid &/or Obama, I've decided to start adding Republican names to their fault fiascos.)

31st October 2009, 10:26 PM	#191
Eos of the Eons Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Alberta Posts: 12,752	Originally Posted by Stout Cheers Safe-Keeper, I figured it was being ramped up. Yikes, I've got some guy on another forum going on about some guy named Anthony Morris and I just got back from a site called whale.to. My brain is melted But it's Halloween and I've got to gear up and go do a fire show up at the local bonfire. Yay. You new at this? I can start a list. AndrewWakefield Weil Kirby Mary Tocco (or any chiropractor, homeopath or ND) Veira Scheibner Meryl Dorey and naturalnews.com Archie Kalokerinos Harris Coulter Jay Gordon Bernard Rimland Harold E. Buttram Wolfgang Wodarg Robert Kennedy whale.to Mercola Boyd Haley Dettman Eva Snead Raymond Obomsawin Michael Odent Guylaine Lanctot Susan DeSimone Tim Bolen Ted Koren Lorraine Day Sherri Tenpenny Jenny McCarthy and Generation Rescue - J.B. Handley Bill Maher Just to name a very few notorious ones! http://www.members.shaw.ca/eostory/VaccineQuotes.html http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2211
	__________________ Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it! Last edited by Eos of the Eons; 31st October 2009 at 10:30 PM.

31st October 2009, 10:38 PM	#192
Yeggster Scholar Join Date: May 2009 Location: Orillia, Ontario, Canada Posts: 112	Originally Posted by Without Rights When you add mercury with other ingredients in thimerosal it doesn't magically make mercury safe. The Mercury content is a red herring .. your body is ejected with more Mercury when you eat a small can of tuna ... mercury is in every breath you take as well.

31st October 2009, 10:41 PM	#193
Dr. Imago Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,918	Barring the copious side-chatter on this thread (the majority of which, I admit, I didn't read), I'm just going to say one thing: THE HORSE IS OUT OF THE BARN. Take that however you want. It's not advice. Just a statement. On a separate note, suffice it to say that I have been definitively exposed to H1N1 at least three (known) times, including once during an endotracheal intubation where the patient (an extremely elderly gentleman with multiple co-morbid conditions, including congestive heart failure) breathed directly into my unprotected face from less than a foot away as I was watching his vocal cords as I was putting the endotracheal tube in. I never got the flu. Again, take that however you want (i.e., maybe I'm just "special"). ~Dr. Imago
	__________________ DISCLAIMER: The above post is for informational and/or educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for the professional judgment of, in direct consultation with, a health care professional in diagnosing, treating, and/or preventing any disease or disorder. It is not to be construed as individualized medical advice, diagnosis, or a treatment recommendation. Your reliance upon the information obtained or used by you at, through, or as a result of this post is solely at your own risk.

31st October 2009, 10:54 PM	#194
Dr. Imago Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,918	Originally Posted by Dr. Imago Barring the copious side-chatter on this thread (the majority of which, I admit, I didn't read), I'm just going to say one thing: THE HORSE IS OUT OF THE BARN. Take that however you want. It's not advice. Just a statement. On a separate note, suffice it to say that I have been definitively exposed to H1N1 at least three (known) times, including once during an endotracheal intubation where the patient (an extremely elderly gentleman with multiple co-morbid conditions, including congestive heart failure) breathed directly into my unprotected face from less than a foot away as I was watching his vocal cords as I was putting the endotracheal tube in. I never got the flu. Again, take that however you want (i.e., maybe I'm just "special"). ~Dr. Imago Oh, and I haven't gotten the vaccine. I did take Tamiflu for five days, though, after the guy who coded and that I intubated breathed all over me. The infectious disease specialist gave it to us. ~Dr. Imago
	__________________ DISCLAIMER: The above post is for informational and/or educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for the professional judgment of, in direct consultation with, a health care professional in diagnosing, treating, and/or preventing any disease or disorder. It is not to be construed as individualized medical advice, diagnosis, or a treatment recommendation. Your reliance upon the information obtained or used by you at, through, or as a result of this post is solely at your own risk.

1st November 2009, 12:53 AM	#195
skeptigirl Web Surfer Girl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: headed back to that dark dark house in the dark dark woods Posts: 17,997	Originally Posted by Dr. Imago Barring the copious side-chatter on this thread (the majority of which, I admit, I didn't read), I'm just going to say one thing: THE HORSE IS OUT OF THE BARN. Take that however you want. It's not advice. Just a statement. On a separate note, suffice it to say that I have been definitively exposed to H1N1 at least three (known) times, including once during an endotracheal intubation where the patient (an extremely elderly gentleman with multiple co-morbid conditions, including congestive heart failure) breathed directly into my unprotected face from less than a foot away as I was watching his vocal cords as I was putting the endotracheal tube in. I never got the flu. Again, take that however you want (i.e., maybe I'm just "special"). ~Dr. Imago You may just be e'special'ly old.
	__________________ Sk'p' 'el (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Republic Party, in response.) (*Tired of the current Republican talking point of naming everything after Pelosi, Reid &/or Obama, I've decided to start adding Republican names to their fault fiascos.)