The VFF Test is On!

SezMe · 25th October 2009, 04:35 PM

Finally, the IIG has released information about their test of VFF. The negotiations have been held behind closed doors which is why I was not able to say more in the related thread. BTW, I have opened a new thread which I hope will focus solely on this test and leave the previous dust ups behind. Hopefully we can keep it in unmoderated status.

Sadly, the protocol is not available from the IIG (not sure why). However, I have been told that VFF has the IIG's permission to release it so I hereby request that VFF release it to the JREF community.

I am tentatively planning to attend the test.

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 25th October 2009, 05:15 PM

I don't know what the IIG or the VFF is, and the link is broken.

~~ Paul

godofpie · 25th October 2009, 05:23 PM

VFF=Vision From Feeling
IIG=Independent Investigations Group

Pure_Argent · 25th October 2009, 05:26 PM

This should be interesting. I second the notion that VFF release the testing protocol.

jhunter1163 · 25th October 2009, 05:28 PM

Error 404. Somehow seems fitting, dunnit?

ETA: Nevermind. Seems to be working now.

Hokulele · 25th October 2009, 05:31 PM

The link was working earlier. To summarize, the testing will be held on Nov. 21, 2009. VfF will be attempting to identify people who are missing organs. No mention of any specific organ type. There will be people from IIG present, as well as some sort of faculty from a local university (UCLA? I forget).

SezMe · 25th October 2009, 05:33 PM

Apparently just after the link was sent to me, the CFI webmaster moved it. Oops!

Try this.

ETA: If it moves again, go to the IIG main page and I'm sure there will be a link to it there.

Akhenaten · 25th October 2009, 05:43 PM

If only there were a site where all things VfF are discussed.

It would prolly have threads like this on it.

Skeptical Greg · 25th October 2009, 05:50 PM

I predict the test will not take place as announced ..

Akhenaten · 25th October 2009, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

I predict the test will not take place as announced ..

It probably will in some way or another. It's all part of the overall performance, and is a required scene, apparently, regardless of the outcome.

From the thread linked in my previous post:

Originally Posted by Vision from Feeling

I am confident that this test will allow the very best opportunity for my claim to show what, if anything, it is capable of. I am prepared to do my best on the test, but am preparing myself for the outcome that I would fail, so that I would not be disappointed or even surprised if or when that happens.

It seems that nobody expects a positive result, so no expectations will be harmed. That's nice.

Hokulele · 25th October 2009, 06:16 PM

I am prepared for an explanation of why her failure was really a success, because although she didn't outright say that participant #6 was missing a kidney, she knew they did, but didn't want to bias the results...

...or something.

Stray Cat · 25th October 2009, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Hokulele

I am prepared for an explanation of why her failure was really a success, because although she didn't outright say that participant #6 was missing a kidney, she knew they did, but didn't want to bias the results...

...or something.

And now if participant 6 does happen to be missing a kidney... you're in line for the MDC yourself

SezMe · 25th October 2009, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

I predict the test will not take place as announced ..

My understanding is that VFF had to provide proof that she purchased the plane travel before IIG would release this info. I think the test will take place, I just don't know what reaction her failure will cause. (Sheesh, what a crappy sentence.)

ETA: I've PM'ed VFF so she knows this thread exists.

Hokulele · 25th October 2009, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

And now if participant 6 does happen to be missing a kidney... you're in line for the MDC yourself

I would never stoop to taking the MDC, after all, powers such as mine cannot be tested by mundane scientific methods. Besides, I do not need such skeptically tainted blood money.

GeeMack · 25th October 2009, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

I predict the test will not take place as announced ..

Like some epiphany occurs and the situation changes? The IIG has notified the press, and with the press present there is a serious possibility of her enduring one of the most humiliating experiences a person could suffer, becoming a laughing stock, an example of a bogus paranormal claim that skeptics will chuckle about for years? Like you wonder if some kind of, well, illness might prevent her from actually attending the test? Oh, the humanity, what a coincidence that would be!

Hey, somebody, write out that MDC check in Skeptical Greg's name. Looks like we might have a genuine psychic prediction here. What? Too easy? Anyone could guess that? Dammit. Sorry, Greg.

pakeha · 25th October 2009, 06:46 PM

Well done!

Skeptical Greg · 25th October 2009, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

My understanding is that VFF had to provide proof that she purchased the plane travel before IIG would release this info...

Was it a non-refundable ticket ?
Even if it wasn't, I don't see it as a show stopper; the show being " weaseling out of the test " ...

SezMe · 25th October 2009, 07:21 PM

Do the airlines even sell refundable tickets any more? At least ones without a huge cancellation penalty.

You may well be right, Greg. Lord knows, precedent is on your side.

Akhenaten · 25th October 2009, 07:38 PM

You skeptics are all the same! You're just impatient, especially dear GeeMack and the wonderful SezMe. You just wait and see! All of your questions will be answered eventually.

pipelineaudio · 25th October 2009, 07:47 PM

Why does it say in your blog that people arent allowed to discuss possible tests for Vff from the Jref mods?

That would be stupid

desertgal · 25th October 2009, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Hokulele

I am prepared for an explanation of why her failure was really a success, because although she didn't outright say that participant #6 was missing a kidney, she knew they did, but didn't want to bias the results...

...or something.

Yes. I believe that is how it will end, as well.

GeeMack · 25th October 2009, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by desertgal

Yes. I believe that is how it will end, as well.

If only.

fromdownunder · 25th October 2009, 08:13 PM

I for one congratulate VfF for actually confirming the test, agreeing to a protocol, buying the plane ticket and actually giving an undertaking to go through with it. I will watch the outcome with interest, and at this point seriously suggest that people not be overly harsh until the event happens, and the results are in.

At least unlike many others, she is actually willing to put her money where her mouth is. Wait until after the test for the snide remarks, please.

Norm

VisionFromFeeling · 25th October 2009, 08:18 PM

Yes, it's true. The test is finally scheduled and only less than a month away. I have purchased non-refundable flight tickets. I will even be arriving early on the day before, and leaving in the afternoon on the day after the test so that I can have a full day for the test in case there are delays - and so that I can not be expected to blame anything on fatigue or on being rushed.

I have also sent a whopping $750 to the IIG to cover some of the costs of arranging the test. Don't worry, other people my age spend that kind of money on other things that they enjoy doing. I have been saving for a long time and this is something that is meaningful to me.

I have e-mailed the IIG asking them to confirm that I may post the test protocol. As soon as they confirm, I will post the protocol here in full. It is the best protocol ever, it is just that good.

I do hope you can attend the test, SezMe! Are you a member of the IIG, scientist from UCLA, or representative of the media? Otherwise they won't let you attend.

GeeMack, I don't think the IIG or the press would laugh at me when I fail the test, but if someone finds it entertaining then so be it. I will still be glad that I chose to go through with this, and I will still feel that it was the right choice to present a public and open example of a paranormal claim and its investigation. To have investigated an experience I can't explain, to have shared that with other people, to have set an example to other "psychic claimants", to show that it is possible and even very easy to submit a claim for a paranormal test and to go through with the test, and to embrace the conclusion of that test. And regardless of how other people will feel, I will be proud, not embarrassed.

Skeptical Greg · 25th October 2009, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Do the airlines even sell refundable tickets any more? At least ones without a huge cancellation penalty.

I believe most offer fully refundable tickets .. You just pay considerably more up front..
Which is not a problem if you never intend to use it ...

I could be wrong ... It's just my gut feeling ...

P.S.

I see I was wrong about the ticket ..

Can't wait to see the spin on the test, if it takes place ..

I would like to see the protocol .. I'm sure IIG will do a respectable job ..
I wonder if it allows for none of the subjects to have a missing organ ?

JoeTheJuggler · 25th October 2009, 08:26 PM

While it doesn't spell out the exact protocol, the press release does say:

Quote:

During this preliminary demonstration Ms. Ikonen will be presented with multiple human test subjects and asked to identify those who are missing internal organs. If she is successful Anita will move on to the formal test for the IIG’s “$50,000 Challenge,"<snip>

Skeptical Greg · 25th October 2009, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by fromdownunder

I for one congratulate VfF for actually confirming the test, agreeing to a protocol, buying the plane ticket and actually giving an undertaking to go through with it. I will watch the outcome with interest, and at this point seriously suggest that people not be overly harsh until the event happens, and the results are in.

At least unlike many others, she is actually willing to put her money where her mouth is. Wait until after the test for the snide remarks, please.

Norm

I prefer to start my snide remarks now ...

Think what a wonderful opportunity VFF will have to say " I told you so ! " if the snide remarks are without merit.

It's been almost a year ( Nov 5th will make it a year ) since VFF first made her claims here, and it would have been easy to be tested for her claims from day one ..

Why the dog and pony show a year later ?

VisionFromFeeling · 25th October 2009, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

It's been almost a year ( Nov 5th will make it a year ) since VFF first made her claims here, and it would have been easy to be tested for her claims from day one ..

Why the dog and pony show a year later ?

I submitted my claim to the IIG more than two years ago, in July 2007. The claim, then, was based on limited experience with various perceptions and with checking for their accuracy. I included a large list of various health information that I had experienced detecting in the past and had confirmed as accurate. The IIG however wanted the test to focus on one or a few types of health information only. Ironically, they did suggest that we test the claim on missing kidneys, and back then I had not had that particular experience and had to say no. My claim is strictly based on what I claim to have experienced, and nothing more.

Experiencing something in everyday life can be very different from attempting the same in a test environment. I was not sure of which health information to choose for a test, and also I was not sure of how my claim might perform in a test. What test conditions would it perform under? Could I use a screen? Would I have to see the person from the front, and for how long? The protocol negotiations came to a halt.

Both IIG and the local Skeptics group suggested to me that I study my claim to learn more about it, and so I did. During the study, I had the specific (claimed) experience of detecting a missing kidney, and also learned plenty of other things about how my claim can and can not perform under various test conditions.

I was pleased to find that not only do the perceptions work if I see the person from behind, but that I would actually prefer that. I learned that I only need a few seconds to form and conclude on the perceptions. That the perceptions are not based on my thoughts or logic and are an entirely different process. That I do not use any interaction with the person, such as speaking or touching. But I also learned that I do need to see the person with my eyesight in order for the perceptions to form.

Anyhow, that is why it took the time it did before I was then able to submit a new and much more specific claim to the IIG. I then returned to the JREF Forums and discussed the test protocol with you all and learned many valuable suggestions that I included in my new test protocol draft that I submitted to the IIG based on this more specific claim.

And the test protocol that will be used is actually almost exactly as what I submitted as my initial draft.

The protocol negotiations went by very quickly and smoothly. I do not think the IIG and me experienced any of the complications that are common for many other paranormal claimants who try to arrive at a test. To submit your claim to a test and to actually go through with the test is very easy, and I do hope that other claimants become inspired to do the same, or to withdraw their claims.

You can read more about my claim and its investigation at www.visionfromfeeling.com

Akhenaten · 25th October 2009, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

Why does it say in your blog that people arent allowed to discuss possible tests for Vff from the Jref mods?

That would be stupid

eleven???

Audible Click · 25th October 2009, 09:22 PM

As I recall in some VfF thread she claimed that she wasn't good at "seeing" missing appendix,tonsils, etc. But the IIG press release says "missing internal organs" so is she looking for missing kidneys? She claims this was her strongest perception.

Akhenaten · 25th October 2009, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling

I submitted my claim to the IIG more than two years ago.

<snippage>

The protocol negotiations went by very quickly and smoothly.

<abounds>

One of these things is not like the other thing.

VisionFromFeeling · 25th October 2009, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling

I submitted my claim to the IIG more than two years ago. <snippage> The protocol negotiations went by very quickly and smoothly. <abounds>

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

One of these things is not like the other thing.

Once I submitted the new suggested protocol draft for the more specific claim it did not take long for it to become a final test protocol. But the process overall took more than two years, but that is because I was working on designing a more specific claim and studying how the claim does with various test conditions.

Audible Click · 25th October 2009, 09:33 PM

@VfF
Will you please answer my question?

SezMe · 25th October 2009, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling

I do hope you can attend the test, SezMe! Are you a member of the IIG, scientist from UCLA, or representative of the media? Otherwise they won't let you attend.

I was one of the original members of the IIG and, in fact, for a brief period was the Investigations Chair. However, living more than 100 miles from the IIG location made it difficult to participate regularly (especially given LA traffic

) so I had to end my participation.

But for this test one of the people you have been negotiating with has given me VIP status (*snort* First and last time that'll happen

) and permission to attend. Hopefully I can be there, closely monitor the test, take some photos for JREFers, and get a chance to meet you.

Good luck!

ETA: As I indicated in the OP, the IIG has no problem with you releasing the protocol. Of course, you should not take my word for it but after they confirm, please post it here ASAP. It is of central importance to this test and should answer Audible Click's question in some detail.

VisionFromFeeling · 25th October 2009, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Audible Click

As I recall in some VfF thread she claimed that she wasn't good at "seeing" missing appendix,tonsils, etc. But the IIG press release says "missing internal organs" so is she looking for missing kidneys? She claims this was her strongest perception.

Originally Posted by Audible Click

@VfF
Will you please answer my question?

I thought I already answered earlier. I have e-mailed the IIG asking them to confirm whether I am allowed to post our test protocol or reveal details from it.

BTMO · 25th October 2009, 10:00 PM

Win, lose or draw, good on you for having a go.

I can't imagine you will win the test - but all the very best.

VisionFromFeeling · 25th October 2009, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

But for this test one of the people you have been negotiating with has given me VIP status (*snort* First and last time that'll happen

) and permission to attend. Hopefully I can be there, closely monitor the test, take some photos for JREFers, and get a chance to meet you.

Good luck!

ETA: As I indicated in the OP, the IIG has no problem with you releasing the protocol. Of course, you should not take my word for it but after they confirm, please post it here ASAP. It is of central importance to this test and should answer Audible Click's question in some detail.

I would look forward to meeting you too! I hope to see you at the test, VIP!

There are reasons why I am unclear as to whether I may publish the test protocol. There is the possibility that the IIG is choosing not to reveal certain aspects of the test, so it is better that I confirm with them first. If I am incorrect, then I will tell you what I thought the reasons were.

PS. I will be up all night. I have homework. And coffee.

VisionFromFeeling · 25th October 2009, 10:19 PM

The test protocol will not be published. This is to protect the integrity of the test and to better ensure a double blind procedure for all of those involved. I am allowed to publish the protocol, but the IIG will not, and so neither will I. You only have less than a month to wait until you get to see the test itself and once the test has been concluded I am sure the protocol will be published then. Just think of it as a surprise that way.

Audible Click · 25th October 2009, 10:49 PM

Oh good, now the mods can close the thread.

SezMe · 25th October 2009, 10:51 PM

Nonsense. Publishing the protocol will ensure the integrity of the test. I have sent an e-mail to the IIG stating that keeping the protocol private is a "serious problem".

We'll see.

ETA: "Nonsense" being in response to #38, not #39....which is merely tongue-in-cheek nonsense.

25th October 2009, 04:35 PM	#1
SezMe Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 9,850	The VFF Test is On! Finally, the IIG has released information about their test of VFF. The negotiations have been held behind closed doors which is why I was not able to say more in the related thread. BTW, I have opened a new thread which I hope will focus solely on this test and leave the previous dust ups behind. Hopefully we can keep it in unmoderated status. Sadly, the protocol is not available from the IIG (not sure why). However, I have been told that VFF has the IIG's permission to release it so I hereby request that VFF release it to the JREF community. I am tentatively planning to attend the test.

25th October 2009, 05:15 PM	#2
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Nap, interrupted. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a little toolshed Posts: 17,453	I don't know what the IIG or the VFF is, and the link is broken. ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz Ontic vagueness may be what you're looking for. ---imiyakawa

25th October 2009, 05:28 PM	#5
jhunter1163 Beer-Swilling Semiliterate Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Room 118, Bohemian Grove Marriott Posts: 6,569	Error 404. Somehow seems fitting, dunnit? ETA: Nevermind. Seems to be working now.
	__________________ [Due to high ambient stupidity, I guess I need to spell it out: THIS IS A JOKE.] - JamesBlodgett You have a bucket of squirrel crap here. - Leftysergeant Last edited by jhunter1163; 25th October 2009 at 05:30 PM.

25th October 2009, 05:33 PM	#7
SezMe Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 9,850	Apparently just after the link was sent to me, the CFI webmaster moved it. Oops! Try this. ETA: If it moves again, go to the IIG main page and I'm sure there will be a link to it there.
	Last edited by SezMe; 25th October 2009 at 05:36 PM.

25th October 2009, 05:43 PM	#8
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Aberhaten-by-the-Sea Posts: 10,377	If only there were a site where all things VfF are discussed. It would prolly have threads like this on it.
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon

25th October 2009, 05:23 PM	#3
godofpie Chief Cook & Bottle Washer Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: south of the mason dixon Posts: 800	VFF=Vision From Feeling IIG=Independent Investigations Group
	__________________ king of all that is pizza _{"You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out" - Warren Buffett} _{"Gods don't write books, people do. Gods create Universes. When you refuse to study the Universe, but choose instead to study a book, you are studying the work of men, not God." -Brainache}

25th October 2009, 05:26 PM	#4
Pure_Argent Resident Gamer Geek Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Lab Posts: 4,929	This should be interesting. I second the notion that VFF release the testing protocol.

25th October 2009, 05:31 PM	#6
Hokulele Official Nemesis TLA Dictatrix Pither Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: In ur WinCE, hacking ur exploits. Posts: 23,920	The link was working earlier. To summarize, the testing will be held on Nov. 21, 2009. VfF will be attempting to identify people who are missing organs. No mention of any specific organ type. There will be people from IIG present, as well as some sort of faculty from a local university (UCLA? I forget).
	__________________ I'm ranged and my mana's being replaced with...rage or fury or something. - slingblade

25th October 2009, 05:50 PM	#9
Skeptical Greg Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' Posts: 10,085	I predict the test will not take place as announced ..
	__________________ " Is that a real diamond ? " " If you can't tell, why does it matter ? "

25th October 2009, 06:12 PM	#10
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Aberhaten-by-the-Sea Posts: 10,377	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg I predict the test will not take place as announced .. It probably will in some way or another. It's all part of the overall performance, and is a required scene, apparently, regardless of the outcome. From the thread linked in my previous post: Originally Posted by Vision from Feeling I am confident that this test will allow the very best opportunity for my claim to show what, if anything, it is capable of. I am prepared to do my best on the test, but am preparing myself for the outcome that I would fail, so that I would not be disappointed or even surprised if or when that happens. It seems that nobody expects a positive result, so no expectations will be harmed. That's nice.
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon

25th October 2009, 06:16 PM	#11
Hokulele Official Nemesis TLA Dictatrix Pither Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: In ur WinCE, hacking ur exploits. Posts: 23,920	I am prepared for an explanation of why her failure was really a success, because although she didn't outright say that participant #6 was missing a kidney, she knew they did, but didn't want to bias the results... ...or something.
	__________________ I'm ranged and my mana's being replaced with...rage or fury or something. - slingblade

25th October 2009, 06:20 PM	#12
Stray Cat Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Land That Time Forgot Posts: 1,771	Originally Posted by Hokulele I am prepared for an explanation of why her failure was really a success, because although she didn't outright say that participant #6 was missing a kidney, she knew they did, but didn't want to bias the results... ...or something. And now if participant 6 does happen to be missing a kidney... you're in line for the MDC yourself
	__________________ It's only my madness that stops me from going insane!

25th October 2009, 06:24 PM	#13
SezMe Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 9,850	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg I predict the test will not take place as announced .. My understanding is that VFF had to provide proof that she purchased the plane travel before IIG would release this info. I think the test will take place, I just don't know what reaction her failure will cause. (Sheesh, what a crappy sentence.) ETA: I've PM'ed VFF so she knows this thread exists.
	Last edited by SezMe; 25th October 2009 at 06:27 PM.

25th October 2009, 06:29 PM	#14
Hokulele Official Nemesis TLA Dictatrix Pither Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: In ur WinCE, hacking ur exploits. Posts: 23,920	Originally Posted by Stray Cat And now if participant 6 does happen to be missing a kidney... you're in line for the MDC yourself I would never stoop to taking the MDC, after all, powers such as mine cannot be tested by mundane scientific methods. Besides, I do not need such skeptically tainted blood money.
	__________________ I'm ranged and my mana's being replaced with...rage or fury or something. - slingblade

25th October 2009, 06:37 PM	#15
GeeMack Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Not Bandiagara Posts: 2,701	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg I predict the test will not take place as announced .. Like some epiphany occurs and the situation changes? The IIG has notified the press, and with the press present there is a serious possibility of her enduring one of the most humiliating experiences a person could suffer, becoming a laughing stock, an example of a bogus paranormal claim that skeptics will chuckle about for years? Like you wonder if some kind of, well, illness might prevent her from actually attending the test? Oh, the humanity, what a coincidence that would be! Hey, somebody, write out that MDC check in Skeptical Greg's name. Looks like we might have a genuine psychic prediction here. What? Too easy? Anyone could guess that? Dammit. Sorry, Greg.

25th October 2009, 06:46 PM	#16
pakeha Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,101	Well done!
pakeha Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,101	__________________ It's a perfect time of year. It's your hemisphere that's all wrong. from "The Wisdom of Akhenaten, the Heretic Pharaoh", vol. 12.

25th October 2009, 07:17 PM	#17
Skeptical Greg Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' Posts: 10,085	Originally Posted by SezMe My understanding is that VFF had to provide proof that she purchased the plane travel before IIG would release this info... Was it a non-refundable ticket ? Even if it wasn't, I don't see it as a show stopper; the show being " weaseling out of the test " ...
	__________________ " Is that a real diamond ? " " If you can't tell, why does it matter ? "

25th October 2009, 07:21 PM	#18
SezMe Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 9,850	Do the airlines even sell refundable tickets any more? At least ones without a huge cancellation penalty. You may well be right, Greg. Lord knows, precedent is on your side.

25th October 2009, 07:38 PM	#19
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Aberhaten-by-the-Sea Posts: 10,377	You skeptics are all the same! You're just impatient, especially dear GeeMack and the wonderful SezMe. You just wait and see! All of your questions will be answered eventually.
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon

25th October 2009, 07:47 PM	#20
pipelineaudio Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wickenburg, AZ Posts: 2,650	Why does it say in your blog that people arent allowed to discuss possible tests for Vff from the Jref mods? That would be stupid
	__________________ Can someone give me a better name for SLAG FAIRY?

25th October 2009, 07:55 PM	#21
desertgal Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 2,250	Originally Posted by Hokulele I am prepared for an explanation of why her failure was really a success, because although she didn't outright say that participant #6 was missing a kidney, she knew they did, but didn't want to bias the results... ...or something. Yes. I believe that is how it will end, as well.
	__________________ "Oh, and if I were a Narcissist, I would have stayed in the Breatharian woo, where people still today call me a guru and think of me as a demigod, and I keep having to fight them off with a stick..." - VisionFromFeeling

25th October 2009, 08:00 PM	#22
GeeMack Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Not Bandiagara Posts: 2,701	Originally Posted by desertgal Yes. I believe that is how it will end, as well. If only.

25th October 2009, 08:13 PM	#23
fromdownunder Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,787	I for one congratulate VfF for actually confirming the test, agreeing to a protocol, buying the plane ticket and actually giving an undertaking to go through with it. I will watch the outcome with interest, and at this point seriously suggest that people not be overly harsh until the event happens, and the results are in. At least unlike many others, she is actually willing to put her money where her mouth is. Wait until after the test for the snide remarks, please. Norm

25th October 2009, 08:18 PM	#24
VisionFromFeeling Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina, United States Posts: 1,363	Yes, it's true. The test is finally scheduled and only less than a month away. I have purchased non-refundable flight tickets. I will even be arriving early on the day before, and leaving in the afternoon on the day after the test so that I can have a full day for the test in case there are delays - and so that I can not be expected to blame anything on fatigue or on being rushed. I have also sent a whopping $750 to the IIG to cover some of the costs of arranging the test. Don't worry, other people my age spend that kind of money on other things that they enjoy doing. I have been saving for a long time and this is something that is meaningful to me. I have e-mailed the IIG asking them to confirm that I may post the test protocol. As soon as they confirm, I will post the protocol here in full. It is the best protocol ever, it is just that good. I do hope you can attend the test, SezMe! Are you a member of the IIG, scientist from UCLA, or representative of the media? Otherwise they won't let you attend. GeeMack, I don't think the IIG or the press would laugh at me when I fail the test, but if someone finds it entertaining then so be it. I will still be glad that I chose to go through with this, and I will still feel that it was the right choice to present a public and open example of a paranormal claim and its investigation. To have investigated an experience I can't explain, to have shared that with other people, to have set an example to other "psychic claimants", to show that it is possible and even very easy to submit a claim for a paranormal test and to go through with the test, and to embrace the conclusion of that test. And regardless of how other people will feel, I will be proud, not embarrassed.
	Last edited by VisionFromFeeling; 25th October 2009 at 08:33 PM.

25th October 2009, 08:22 PM	#25
Skeptical Greg Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' Posts: 10,085	Originally Posted by SezMe Do the airlines even sell refundable tickets any more? At least ones without a huge cancellation penalty. I believe most offer fully refundable tickets .. You just pay considerably more up front.. Which is not a problem if you never intend to use it ... I could be wrong ... It's just my gut feeling ... P.S. I see I was wrong about the ticket .. Can't wait to see the spin on the test, if it takes place .. I would like to see the protocol .. I'm sure IIG will do a respectable job .. I wonder if it allows for none of the subjects to have a missing organ ?
	__________________ " Is that a real diamond ? " " If you can't tell, why does it matter ? " Last edited by Skeptical Greg; 25th October 2009 at 08:28 PM.

25th October 2009, 08:26 PM	#26
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 13,046	While it doesn't spell out the exact protocol, the press release does say: Quote: During this preliminary demonstration Ms. Ikonen will be presented with multiple human test subjects and asked to identify those who are missing internal organs. If she is successful Anita will move on to the formal test for the IIG’s “$50,000 Challenge,"<snip>
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

25th October 2009, 08:49 PM	#27
Skeptical Greg Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' Posts: 10,085	Originally Posted by fromdownunder I for one congratulate VfF for actually confirming the test, agreeing to a protocol, buying the plane ticket and actually giving an undertaking to go through with it. I will watch the outcome with interest, and at this point seriously suggest that people not be overly harsh until the event happens, and the results are in. At least unlike many others, she is actually willing to put her money where her mouth is. Wait until after the test for the snide remarks, please. Norm I prefer to start my snide remarks now ... Think what a wonderful opportunity VFF will have to say " I told you so ! " if the snide remarks are without merit. It's been almost a year ( Nov 5th will make it a year ) since VFF first made her claims here, and it would have been easy to be tested for her claims from day one .. Why the dog and pony show a year later ?
	__________________ " Is that a real diamond ? " " If you can't tell, why does it matter ? " Last edited by Skeptical Greg; 25th October 2009 at 08:51 PM.

25th October 2009, 09:19 PM	#28
VisionFromFeeling Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina, United States Posts: 1,363	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg It's been almost a year ( Nov 5th will make it a year ) since VFF first made her claims here, and it would have been easy to be tested for her claims from day one .. Why the dog and pony show a year later ? I submitted my claim to the IIG more than two years ago, in July 2007. The claim, then, was based on limited experience with various perceptions and with checking for their accuracy. I included a large list of various health information that I had experienced detecting in the past and had confirmed as accurate. The IIG however wanted the test to focus on one or a few types of health information only. Ironically, they did suggest that we test the claim on missing kidneys, and back then I had not had that particular experience and had to say no. My claim is strictly based on what I claim to have experienced, and nothing more. Experiencing something in everyday life can be very different from attempting the same in a test environment. I was not sure of which health information to choose for a test, and also I was not sure of how my claim might perform in a test. What test conditions would it perform under? Could I use a screen? Would I have to see the person from the front, and for how long? The protocol negotiations came to a halt. Both IIG and the local Skeptics group suggested to me that I study my claim to learn more about it, and so I did. During the study, I had the specific (claimed) experience of detecting a missing kidney, and also learned plenty of other things about how my claim can and can not perform under various test conditions. I was pleased to find that not only do the perceptions work if I see the person from behind, but that I would actually prefer that. I learned that I only need a few seconds to form and conclude on the perceptions. That the perceptions are not based on my thoughts or logic and are an entirely different process. That I do not use any interaction with the person, such as speaking or touching. But I also learned that I do need to see the person with my eyesight in order for the perceptions to form. Anyhow, that is why it took the time it did before I was then able to submit a new and much more specific claim to the IIG. I then returned to the JREF Forums and discussed the test protocol with you all and learned many valuable suggestions that I included in my new test protocol draft that I submitted to the IIG based on this more specific claim. And the test protocol that will be used is actually almost exactly as what I submitted as my initial draft. The protocol negotiations went by very quickly and smoothly. I do not think the IIG and me experienced any of the complications that are common for many other paranormal claimants who try to arrive at a test. To submit your claim to a test and to actually go through with the test is very easy, and I do hope that other claimants become inspired to do the same, or to withdraw their claims. You can read more about my claim and its investigation at www.visionfromfeeling.com

25th October 2009, 09:22 PM	#29
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Aberhaten-by-the-Sea Posts: 10,377	Originally Posted by pipelineaudio Why does it say in your blog that people arent allowed to discuss possible tests for Vff from the Jref mods? That would be stupid eleven???
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon

25th October 2009, 09:22 PM	#30
Audible Click The gap in the plot Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: BFE Posts: 2,678	As I recall in some VfF thread she claimed that she wasn't good at "seeing" missing appendix,tonsils, etc. But the IIG press release says "missing internal organs" so is she looking for missing kidneys? She claims this was her strongest perception.
	__________________ Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

25th October 2009, 09:25 PM	#31
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Aberhaten-by-the-Sea Posts: 10,377	Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling I submitted my claim to the IIG more than two years ago. <snippage> The protocol negotiations went by very quickly and smoothly. <abounds> One of these things is not like the other thing.
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon

25th October 2009, 09:30 PM	#32
VisionFromFeeling Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina, United States Posts: 1,363	Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling I submitted my claim to the IIG more than two years ago. <snippage> The protocol negotiations went by very quickly and smoothly. <abounds> Originally Posted by Akhenaten One of these things is not like the other thing. Once I submitted the new suggested protocol draft for the more specific claim it did not take long for it to become a final test protocol. But the process overall took more than two years, but that is because I was working on designing a more specific claim and studying how the claim does with various test conditions.

25th October 2009, 09:33 PM	#33
Audible Click The gap in the plot Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: BFE Posts: 2,678	@VfF Will you please answer my question?
	__________________ Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

25th October 2009, 09:50 PM	#34
SezMe Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 9,850	Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling I do hope you can attend the test, SezMe! Are you a member of the IIG, scientist from UCLA, or representative of the media? Otherwise they won't let you attend. I was one of the original members of the IIG and, in fact, for a brief period was the Investigations Chair. However, living more than 100 miles from the IIG location made it difficult to participate regularly (especially given LA traffic ) so I had to end my participation. But for this test one of the people you have been negotiating with has given me VIP status (snort First and last time that'll happen ) and permission to attend. Hopefully I can be there, closely monitor the test, take some photos for JREFers, and get a chance to meet you. Good luck! ETA: As I indicated in the OP, the IIG has no problem with you releasing the protocol. Of course, you should not take my word for it but after they confirm, please post it here ASAP. It is of central importance to this test and should answer Audible Click's question in some detail.
	Last edited by SezMe; 25th October 2009 at 09:55 PM.

25th October 2009, 09:57 PM	#35
VisionFromFeeling Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina, United States Posts: 1,363	Originally Posted by Audible Click As I recall in some VfF thread she claimed that she wasn't good at "seeing" missing appendix,tonsils, etc. But the IIG press release says "missing internal organs" so is she looking for missing kidneys? She claims this was her strongest perception. Originally Posted by Audible Click @VfF Will you please answer my question? I thought I already answered earlier. I have e-mailed the IIG asking them to confirm whether I am allowed to post our test protocol or reveal details from it.