Who will be the next Labour Leader?

Undesired Walrus · 30th October 2009, 03:51 PM

After Brown loses the next election (yes, when, not if), who will be the next Labour Leader? Will the party take a swing to the far left like the Tories took a swing to the far right after their 97 loss (Hague, Duncan Smith)? I'm thinking Cruddas or Ed Miliband will be the far-left's choice.

Or will the party take a swing towards the Blairites once again, with David Miliband and Johnson heading up the party?

I really think it is a contest between Johnson and D.Miliband, but what do you think (Americans, please take part, we interfere in your politics too often. We don't want to feel left out)?

Fiona · 30th October 2009, 03:52 PM

Could. Not. Care. Less.

Undesired Walrus · 30th October 2009, 03:59 PM

Shame.

Uzzy · 30th October 2009, 04:16 PM

Cared enough to post.

Anyway, I think it'd depends on the size of the defeat. If it's small, the next leader will be David Miliband. Blarite Labour is a proven success, and a small defeat could be seen as just a lack of satisfaction in the current government, rather then a vote against Labour policies. I'd prefer it if Johnson became the Labour Leader though. David Miliband just seems like a young twit. A large defeat though? Left wingers take over for at least an election, though Cruddas won't necessarily became leader. I'd expect his faction, along with the trade unions, to have far more influence over the Labour party policy.

One factor might be any settlement of the West Lothian question/Scottish Independence. If Labour suddenly lost all its Scottish MP's in Westminster, that would undoubtedly change things. In that situation, I would expect to see Miliband and Johnson take over, with the left wing of the party marginalised.

Jaggy Bunnet · 30th October 2009, 04:19 PM

Defeat is likely to clear out a lot of the Blairite wing, leaving heartland, predominantly left wing MP's.

The party will also be broke and in desperate need of funding from the unions.

It's going left.

commandlinegamer · 30th October 2009, 04:23 PM

Mandelson.

Undesired Walrus · 30th October 2009, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Uzzy

I'd prefer it if Johnson became the Labour Leader though. David Miliband just seems like a young twit.

D.Miliband is young, but I find that he is incredibly cerebral. I recently read some of his book and saw the Blairite policies shine through in a way Middle England could latch onto. Blair got Middle England, but I feel Miliband could get a more sustained grab. Perhaps he could milk the fact that he went to a state school.

He just needs to grow some balls and come off the fence.

Undesired Walrus · 30th October 2009, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

Mandelson.

If Straw manages to pass the constitutional ammendment before next year's defeat.

I'm consistently amazed how popular the Dark Lord is in Labour circles.

Fiona · 30th October 2009, 04:35 PM

Sorry. I did not mean to be rude. I have mentioned before that in my small circle most of us feel disenfranchised. We were labour voters, you see. Now some do not intend to vote: of the rest, even those who were party workers intend to vote SNP - and again this is not because of any real nationalist sentiment: we just don't see any alternative

Undesired Walrus · 30th October 2009, 04:48 PM

I understand how the Iraq War caused some massive disappointment (amongst myself), but New Labour works. The minimum wage, the Stephen Lawrence inquiry, all these things would not have happened without Labour.

There was no improvement in numeracy and literacy between 1948 and the 1994. Yet, in the three years after 1997, the proportion reaching the literacy standard went up from 63 % to 75 %.

Labour needs a change of direction, a return to the way it was from '97 to the truck blockade, but the early New Labour Government (despite the protests from within the left wing of the party) has been closer to Attlee's brilliant 45-51 Government than anything else since.

We need a new Attlee.

Fiona · 30th October 2009, 04:49 PM

I am glad you see it that way, UW. But I am afraid I could not disagree more

Undesired Walrus · 30th October 2009, 04:53 PM

Did you not take pride in the fact that the The Stephen Lawrence inquiry was set up? I think that was one of New Labour's greatest achievements. One of the greatest implementations of social justice the UK has seen.

commandlinegamer · 30th October 2009, 05:07 PM

Reg: All right ... all right ... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order ... what has New Labour done for us?

Xerxes: Brought war?

Reg: Oh shut up!

geni · 30th October 2009, 05:12 PM

Since none of the likely candidates have challanged Brown it would appear they are all fairly calculating. That being the case it may well be none of them if the election after next also looks unwinable.

UNLoVedRebel · 30th October 2009, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Fiona

Could. Not. Care. Less.

You should care. At least the UK has a Labo(u)r party. No one represents the working class in the US. No one even wants to claim to represent the working class in the US.

Fiona · 30th October 2009, 05:30 PM

That is precisely the problem, UNLoVed Rebel. We don't have a Labour party any more either

commandlinegamer · 30th October 2009, 05:33 PM

Scotland does have (a) socialist party(ies), when it's (they're) not involved in internecine conflict about who visited the tanning salon and with whom.

Anyway my preferred choice for next Labour leader would be Caroline Flint.

Fiona · 30th October 2009, 05:40 PM

Yes we have some socialists, that is true. So independence first and then we may have a choice of some kind.

SezMe · 30th October 2009, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Fiona

That is precisely the problem, UNLoVed Rebel. We don't have a Labour party any more either

In the USA, this has happened because the unions have been so weakened and the Democrats have been bought, to a large extent, by business. Is that the same underlying dynamic on your side.

Fiona · 30th October 2009, 06:57 PM

Yes. We learned it from americans

SezMe · 30th October 2009, 07:55 PM

See. Nobody can say the only American export is Micky Ds.

Lucky · 30th October 2009, 09:51 PM

UW: you are in a small minority (I'm glad to say) in your belief that an increased dose of Blairism is the answer to the current problems of the Labour Party and British politics. I don't think I've seen (or heard) anyone else suggest that in the last year or so.

Completely unjustified imo to claim that the Stephen Lawrence inquiry, or minimum wage legislation, happened specifically because of Nu Labour rather than any other flavour of Labour, and I'd like to see some evidence for that assertion.

I am totally gobsmacked at the notion of Jon Cruddas and Ed Miliband representing the far left (ffs!). We are plainly not on the same planet here, and I don't know how I'd begin to have a political discussion with you. I'd be as likely to find a common wavelength with the average Tory.

btw I could hardly have been more right about Nu-Labour and Gordon Brown in May 2007:

Quote:

What is there to say about a political party, supposed voice of the labour movement, virtually all of whose representatives would (apparently willingly) participate in the disgusting Stalinist ceremony of publicly adoring the 'leader'? And what a 'leader'!

Former long-time Labour Party activist; still a socialist.

Originally Posted by geni

Since none of the likely candidates have challanged Brown it would appear they are all fairly calculating. That being the case it may well be none of them if the election after next also looks unwinable.

That analysis is both too clever and too stupid for the average Nu-Labour MP. Who on earth could hope to predict what the political map will look like after a few years of Tory government ... in the depths of a recession? Bear in mind that, to a man, woman and politician these people are self-serving careerists with zero long-term political vision - they would grab any opportunity for an immediate advantage (if they were capable of any such thing). No, they didn't challenge Brown (even to the extent of not nominating him) because ... they stuffed up!

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

You should care. At least the UK has a Labo(u)r party. No one represents the working class in the US. No one even wants to claim to represent the working class in the US.

Originally Posted by Fiona

That is precisely the problem, UNLoVed Rebel. We don't have a Labour party any more either

I think that's putting it a bit strongly. We can certainly expect serious political change in a severe recession, presided over by a Tory government (which is going to be much more horrible than most of us want to think at the moment). I don't completely rule out the possibility that the Labour Party can regain its historic role as the political leadership and representation of the working class, the unemployed, poor, ill and old people. My son, who is a 'far left' Labour Party activist, promotes this line. But it will have to prove itself in no uncertain terms before I get sucked in again.

Undesired Walrus · 31st October 2009, 03:28 AM

Hmm.. I seem to have been slightly drunk last night. Why do I rant about politics when I am so?

Francesca R · 31st October 2009, 04:37 AM

Since (I suspect) Labour will be out of power for at least two terms, it hardly matters.

geni · 31st October 2009, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Lucky

That analysis is both too clever and too stupid for the average Nu-Labour MP. Who on earth could hope to predict what the political map will look like after a few years of Tory government ... in the depths of a recession? Bear in mind that, to a man, woman and politician these people are self-serving careerists with zero long-term political vision - they would grab any opportunity for an immediate advantage (if they were capable of any such thing). No, they didn't challenge Brown (even to the extent of not nominating him) because ... they stuffed up!

Not worried about the average MP. Just the likely leadership contenders. They've also got the recent example of IDS to look to to see that a weak leader can be removed if things start to look up.

Darth Rotor · 31st October 2009, 06:39 AM

Who will be the next Labour Leader?

Preg Nancy (MP from Manchester)

Uzzy · 1st November 2009, 04:47 PM

Hmm, with David Miliband seemingly abandoning ship to Europe, and Alan Johnson deciding that political image is more important then scientific evidence, I wonder if this changes things. Johnson certainly seems less competent to be Labour Leader now.

Undesired Walrus · 4th November 2009, 07:41 AM

After the Government's (headed up by Johnson) recent idiocy over Cannibas reclassification, there are slim pickings left.

Darat · 4th November 2009, 07:48 AM

I've no idea, not being active in politics as I used to be I've not really seen anyone that I think has required vision and bloodymindness that is required to be a modern part leader. Perhaps there is someone out there - but if so they need to start working on their public image and start getting themselves noticed.

Undesired Walrus · 4th November 2009, 09:46 AM

Rushanara Ali- PPC for Bethnal Green and Bow. Great fan.

Undesired Walrus · 4th November 2009, 10:09 AM

If John Smith were alive.

Old article, worthy points. People forget that Smith helped found New Labour.

Fiona · 4th November 2009, 11:16 AM

Neither Cook nor Smith were "new" labour.

Undesired Walrus · 4th November 2009, 11:23 AM

It started to move that way from Kinnock. Remember that it was Smith who got rid of the Trade Union block vote.

Fiona · 4th November 2009, 12:05 PM

What do you mean by "that way"?

Undesired Walrus · 4th November 2009, 12:13 PM

double

Undesired Walrus · 4th November 2009, 12:17 PM

Towards the a party more rooted in Gaitskellite policies. Tony Benn was very vocal in his opposition to the way Smith was taking the party.

Remember that it was Smith that brought Brown and Blair up through the ranks, making them his acolytes.

Fiona · 4th November 2009, 12:35 PM

Which Gaitskellite policies ?

30th October 2009, 03:51 PM	#1
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	Who will be the next Labour Leader? After Brown loses the next election (yes, when, not if), who will be the next Labour Leader? Will the party take a swing to the far left like the Tories took a swing to the far right after their 97 loss (Hague, Duncan Smith)? I'm thinking Cruddas or Ed Miliband will be the far-left's choice. Or will the party take a swing towards the Blairites once again, with David Miliband and Johnson heading up the party? I really think it is a contest between Johnson and D.Miliband, but what do you think (Americans, please take part, we interfere in your politics too often. We don't want to feel left out)?
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

30th October 2009, 03:52 PM	#2
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	Could. Not. Care. Less.
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	__________________ To see you, who you wanted to be, amongst the bastards out there. Damn you, Fiona - MattC. Damn you, Fi - SkeptikKhatt Damn you, anoiF - CriticalSock You are become Fiona, destroyer of threads! -realpaladin

30th October 2009, 03:59 PM	#3
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	Shame.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

30th October 2009, 04:16 PM	#4
Uzzy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 527	Cared enough to post. Anyway, I think it'd depends on the size of the defeat. If it's small, the next leader will be David Miliband. Blarite Labour is a proven success, and a small defeat could be seen as just a lack of satisfaction in the current government, rather then a vote against Labour policies. I'd prefer it if Johnson became the Labour Leader though. David Miliband just seems like a young twit. A large defeat though? Left wingers take over for at least an election, though Cruddas won't necessarily became leader. I'd expect his faction, along with the trade unions, to have far more influence over the Labour party policy. One factor might be any settlement of the West Lothian question/Scottish Independence. If Labour suddenly lost all its Scottish MP's in Westminster, that would undoubtedly change things. In that situation, I would expect to see Miliband and Johnson take over, with the left wing of the party marginalised.
Uzzy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 527	__________________ "The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth!" Captain Jean-Luc Picard, The First Duty.

30th October 2009, 04:32 PM	#7
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	Originally Posted by Uzzy I'd prefer it if Johnson became the Labour Leader though. David Miliband just seems like a young twit. D.Miliband is young, but I find that he is incredibly cerebral. I recently read some of his book and saw the Blairite policies shine through in a way Middle England could latch onto. Blair got Middle England, but I feel Miliband could get a more sustained grab. Perhaps he could milk the fact that he went to a state school. He just needs to grow some balls and come off the fence.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945 Last edited by Undesired Walrus; 30th October 2009 at 04:34 PM.

30th October 2009, 04:19 PM	#5
Jaggy Bunnet Philosopher Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sunny Leith Posts: 5,083	Defeat is likely to clear out a lot of the Blairite wing, leaving heartland, predominantly left wing MP's. The party will also be broke and in desperate need of funding from the unions. It's going left.

30th October 2009, 04:23 PM	#6
commandlinegamer Muse Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 815	Mandelson.

30th October 2009, 04:35 PM	#8
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	Originally Posted by commandlinegamer Mandelson. If Straw manages to pass the constitutional ammendment before next year's defeat. I'm consistently amazed how popular the Dark Lord is in Labour circles.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

30th October 2009, 04:48 PM	#10
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	I understand how the Iraq War caused some massive disappointment (amongst myself), but New Labour works. The minimum wage, the Stephen Lawrence inquiry, all these things would not have happened without Labour. There was no improvement in numeracy and literacy between 1948 and the 1994. Yet, in the three years after 1997, the proportion reaching the literacy standard went up from 63 % to 75 %. Labour needs a change of direction, a return to the way it was from '97 to the truck blockade, but the early New Labour Government (despite the protests from within the left wing of the party) has been closer to Attlee's brilliant 45-51 Government than anything else since. We need a new Attlee.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945 Last edited by Undesired Walrus; 30th October 2009 at 04:51 PM.

30th October 2009, 04:49 PM	#11
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	I am glad you see it that way, UW. But I am afraid I could not disagree more
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	__________________ To see you, who you wanted to be, amongst the bastards out there. Damn you, Fiona - MattC. Damn you, Fi - SkeptikKhatt Damn you, anoiF - CriticalSock You are become Fiona, destroyer of threads! -realpaladin

30th October 2009, 04:53 PM	#12
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	Did you not take pride in the fact that the The Stephen Lawrence inquiry was set up? I think that was one of New Labour's greatest achievements. One of the greatest implementations of social justice the UK has seen.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945 Last edited by Undesired Walrus; 30th October 2009 at 04:54 PM.

30th October 2009, 05:07 PM	#13
commandlinegamer Muse Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 815	Reg: All right ... all right ... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order ... what has New Labour done for us? Xerxes: Brought war? Reg: Oh shut up!

30th October 2009, 05:12 PM	#14
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 20,278	Since none of the likely candidates have challanged Brown it would appear they are all fairly calculating. That being the case it may well be none of them if the election after next also looks unwinable.

30th October 2009, 05:20 PM	#15
UNLoVedRebel Hard Knocks Doctorate Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: School of Hard Knocks Posts: 2,572	Originally Posted by Fiona Could. Not. Care. Less. You should care. At least the UK has a Labo(u)r party. No one represents the working class in the US. No one even wants to claim to represent the working class in the US.
	__________________ "I believe that a giant monster threw the planes at the towers," TheWeirdSkeptic. "Was the monster a female? I'm not really sure where my wife was that day." Homeland Insurgency

30th October 2009, 05:30 PM	#16
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	That is precisely the problem, UNLoVed Rebel. We don't have a Labour party any more either
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	__________________ To see you, who you wanted to be, amongst the bastards out there. Damn you, Fiona - MattC. Damn you, Fi - SkeptikKhatt Damn you, anoiF - CriticalSock You are become Fiona, destroyer of threads! -realpaladin

30th October 2009, 05:33 PM	#17
commandlinegamer Muse Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 815	Scotland does have (a) socialist party(ies), when it's (they're) not involved in internecine conflict about who visited the tanning salon and with whom. Anyway my preferred choice for next Labour leader would be Caroline Flint.
	Last edited by commandlinegamer; 30th October 2009 at 05:36 PM. Reason: offontopic

30th October 2009, 05:40 PM	#18
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	Yes we have some socialists, that is true. So independence first and then we may have a choice of some kind.
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	__________________ To see you, who you wanted to be, amongst the bastards out there. Damn you, Fiona - MattC. Damn you, Fi - SkeptikKhatt Damn you, anoiF - CriticalSock You are become Fiona, destroyer of threads! -realpaladin

30th October 2009, 06:47 PM	#19
SezMe Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 9,129	Originally Posted by Fiona That is precisely the problem, UNLoVed Rebel. We don't have a Labour party any more either In the USA, this has happened because the unions have been so weakened and the Democrats have been bought, to a large extent, by business. Is that the same underlying dynamic on your side.

30th October 2009, 06:57 PM	#20
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	Yes. We learned it from americans
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	__________________ To see you, who you wanted to be, amongst the bastards out there. Damn you, Fiona - MattC. Damn you, Fi - SkeptikKhatt Damn you, anoiF - CriticalSock You are become Fiona, destroyer of threads! -realpaladin

30th October 2009, 07:55 PM	#21
SezMe Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 9,129	See. Nobody can say the only American export is Micky Ds.

30th October 2009, 09:51 PM	#22
Lucky Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 1,180	UW: you are in a small minority (I'm glad to say) in your belief that an increased dose of Blairism is the answer to the current problems of the Labour Party and British politics. I don't think I've seen (or heard) anyone else suggest that in the last year or so. Completely unjustified imo to claim that the Stephen Lawrence inquiry, or minimum wage legislation, happened specifically because of Nu Labour rather than any other flavour of Labour, and I'd like to see some evidence for that assertion. I am totally gobsmacked at the notion of Jon Cruddas and Ed Miliband representing the far left (ffs!). We are plainly not on the same planet here, and I don't know how I'd begin to have a political discussion with you. I'd be as likely to find a common wavelength with the average Tory. btw I could hardly have been more right about Nu-Labour and Gordon Brown in May 2007: Quote: What is there to say about a political party, supposed voice of the labour movement, virtually all of whose representatives would (apparently willingly) participate in the disgusting Stalinist ceremony of publicly adoring the 'leader'? And what a 'leader'! Former long-time Labour Party activist; still a socialist. Originally Posted by geni Since none of the likely candidates have challanged Brown it would appear they are all fairly calculating. That being the case it may well be none of them if the election after next also looks unwinable. That analysis is both too clever and too stupid for the average Nu-Labour MP. Who on earth could hope to predict what the political map will look like after a few years of Tory government ... in the depths of a recession? Bear in mind that, to a man, woman and politician these people are self-serving careerists with zero long-term political vision - they would grab any opportunity for an immediate advantage (if they were capable of any such thing). No, they didn't challenge Brown (even to the extent of not nominating him) because ... they stuffed up! Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel You should care. At least the UK has a Labo(u)r party. No one represents the working class in the US. No one even wants to claim to represent the working class in the US. Originally Posted by Fiona That is precisely the problem, UNLoVed Rebel. We don't have a Labour party any more either I think that's putting it a bit strongly. We can certainly expect serious political change in a severe recession, presided over by a Tory government (which is going to be much more horrible than most of us want to think at the moment). I don't completely rule out the possibility that the Labour Party can regain its historic role as the political leadership and representation of the working class, the unemployed, poor, ill and old people. My son, who is a 'far left' Labour Party activist, promotes this line. But it will have to prove itself in no uncertain terms before I get sucked in again.
	__________________ I believe that economic advances merely provide the opportunity for a step forward which, as yet, hasn't happened. All we have done is to advance to a point at which we could make a real improvement in human life, but we shan't do it without the recognition that common decency is necessary. George Orwell

31st October 2009, 03:28 AM	#23
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	Hmm.. I seem to have been slightly drunk last night. Why do I rant about politics when I am so?
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

31st October 2009, 04:37 AM	#24
Francesca R Girl Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London EC1 Posts: 8,113	Since (I suspect) Labour will be out of power for at least two terms, it hardly matters.

31st October 2009, 06:24 AM	#25
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 20,278	Originally Posted by Lucky That analysis is both too clever and too stupid for the average Nu-Labour MP. Who on earth could hope to predict what the political map will look like after a few years of Tory government ... in the depths of a recession? Bear in mind that, to a man, woman and politician these people are self-serving careerists with zero long-term political vision - they would grab any opportunity for an immediate advantage (if they were capable of any such thing). No, they didn't challenge Brown (even to the extent of not nominating him) because ... they stuffed up! Not worried about the average MP. Just the likely leadership contenders. They've also got the recent example of IDS to look to to see that a weak leader can be removed if things start to look up.

31st October 2009, 06:39 AM	#26
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,802	Who will be the next Labour Leader? Preg Nancy (MP from Manchester)
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon

1st November 2009, 04:47 PM	#27
Uzzy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 527	Hmm, with David Miliband seemingly abandoning ship to Europe, and Alan Johnson deciding that political image is more important then scientific evidence, I wonder if this changes things. Johnson certainly seems less competent to be Labour Leader now.
Uzzy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 527	__________________ "The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth!" Captain Jean-Luc Picard, The First Duty.

4th November 2009, 07:41 AM	#28
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	After the Government's (headed up by Johnson) recent idiocy over Cannibas reclassification, there are slim pickings left.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

4th November 2009, 07:48 AM	#29
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 47,685	I've no idea, not being active in politics as I used to be I've not really seen anyone that I think has required vision and bloodymindness that is required to be a modern part leader. Perhaps there is someone out there - but if so they need to start working on their public image and start getting themselves noticed.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

4th November 2009, 09:46 AM	#30
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	Rushanara Ali- PPC for Bethnal Green and Bow. Great fan.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

4th November 2009, 10:09 AM	#31
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	If John Smith were alive. Old article, worthy points. People forget that Smith helped found New Labour.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

4th November 2009, 11:16 AM	#32
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	Neither Cook nor Smith were "new" labour.
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	__________________ To see you, who you wanted to be, amongst the bastards out there. Damn you, Fiona - MattC. Damn you, Fi - SkeptikKhatt Damn you, anoiF - CriticalSock You are become Fiona, destroyer of threads! -realpaladin

4th November 2009, 11:23 AM	#33
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	It started to move that way from Kinnock. Remember that it was Smith who got rid of the Trade Union block vote.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

4th November 2009, 12:05 PM	#34
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	What do you mean by "that way"?
Fiona Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,103	__________________ To see you, who you wanted to be, amongst the bastards out there. Damn you, Fiona - MattC. Damn you, Fi - SkeptikKhatt Damn you, anoiF - CriticalSock You are become Fiona, destroyer of threads! -realpaladin

4th November 2009, 12:13 PM	#35
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	double
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945 Last edited by Undesired Walrus; 4th November 2009 at 12:21 PM.

4th November 2009, 12:17 PM	#36
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	Towards the a party more rooted in Gaitskellite policies. Tony Benn was very vocal in his opposition to the way Smith was taking the party. Remember that it was Smith that brought Brown and Blair up through the ranks, making them his acolytes.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945